DoubleSight DS-263N - 26"

I have seen the pricier $1200+ options, but I saw someone mention a model like this for about $900. Was that the Planar? Can someone help me with the models similar to this including the IPS panel?

Is that a better monitor than this esp. in regard to Q.C.?

What I am wondering is that given I would be spending $750 or so on this monitor now that it is in tighter supply, what can I get for a couple more Benjamins?
 
The Planar PX2611W uses the same panel as the DS-263N, supposedly. I don't know that QC is any better on the Planar panel. Beyond that, you're looking in the area of $1200US for the NEC LCD2690WUXi. One downside with the NEC (besides price) is that it has more input lag (2-3 frames) than the Doublesight. Fit and finish will be much higher with the NEC, though. It's not really geared toward the gaming market.
 
I ordered the DS last Friday from Buy.com, hoping to just get in line for when they got them back in stock, and apparently that was now, since mine shipped this afternoon and should arrive on Wednesday (I'm not sure where it shipped from yet, should know tonight or tomorrow).

However, I started having second thoughts about the monitor, mostly due to the price, and tried to cancel the order (assuming it wouldn't ship for another week possibly) and order a refurbished Samsung 215TW instead (I already have a Dell 2005FPW, so a dual 20/21" setup would work well). Well, Buy.com had already shipped it, so now I have both coming and need to return one. I know that a couple people on this thread seem to have both of these, and if that is the case:

- Would you ever want to go back to the Samsung after using the DoubleSight?
- Is going to the DoubleSight worth the extra $400 compared to the Samsung?

Thanks for the input, I need to decide this before the DoubleSight arrives on Wednesday so I could refuse delivery.
 
This model has low input lag, right? Can anyone specify how many frames of lag there are? I'm considering this one or the BenQG2400w.
 
Hmm....sounds good, So the next thing for me is would I be able to hook up my X360 and my PS3 and get 720p/1080p with a nice clean, clear picture?
 
Update to my post on page 25.

I sent the pics of the flaw to Doublesight, and they have approved an RMA for me. I wanted to go through Doublesight rather than Buy.com due to turn around, and I'm hoping that dealing direct will get me a monitor with a polarizer this time. Even without the polarizer, the monitor is excellent. No noticeable lag, games like a champ.

Unfortunately, Doublesight won't cross-ship even though I offered to allow them to charge my CC during the process. They said they don't offer cross-shipping with this model, but they do with others. I twisted their arm but they wouldn't budge.

I'm glad they decided to take this monitor back with an RMA, but the timing will leave me without a monitor for a week or two it sounds like...

Support was responsive and polite though, so overall I have no complaints. I'll post when I get the replacement. I'm also going to try to take some pictures at high angle under the same lighting so if I get a replacement with the polarizer I can post pics for comparison.
 
Recieved DS on Friday from New Egg. No Polarizer. Otherwise one stuck pixel. It is hard to see, or even find and not worth the worry to try. I am very happy with the monitor so far.
I still use a trinitron CRT with the thin wires. The wires bug some people and don't bother others.
 
Hammerhead666 said:
Update to my post on page 25.

I sent the pics of the flaw to Doublesight, and they have approved an RMA for me. I wanted to go through Doublesight rather than Buy.com due to turn around, and I'm hoping that dealing direct will get me a monitor with a polarizer this time. Even without the polarizer, the monitor is excellent. No noticeable lag, games like a champ.

Unfortunately, Doublesight won't cross-ship even though I offered to allow them to charge my CC during the process. They said they don't offer cross-shipping with this model, but they do with others. I twisted their arm but they wouldn't budge.

I'm glad they decided to take this monitor back with an RMA, but the timing will leave me without a monitor for a week or two it sounds like...

Support was responsive and polite though, so overall I have no complaints. I'll post when I get the replacement. I'm also going to try to take some pictures at high angle under the same lighting so if I get a replacement with the polarizer I can post pics for comparison.
Click to expand...


That's odd. They had no problem cross shipping for me. They took my CC number but didn't even charge it. They just held on to it in case I didn't send my RMA back.
 
M Diddy said:
That's odd. They had no problem cross shipping for me. They took my CC number but didn't even charge it. They just held on to it in case I didn't send my RMA back.
Click to expand...

Its very logical that DS has discontinued cross shipping on this model, if indeed there are two different panels they don't want anyone else to have a chance to compare them adding fuel to fire.

MotoSpark
 
I'd hoped to take some side by side pics, so perhaps that's the issue.

I emailed them again asking about expidited shipping or cross shipping as I have abdominal surgery on April 28, and I built the system with this monitor for use for the weeks I'll be recovering. We'll see if they make an exception.

M Diddy, where did you buy your monitor?
 
The pics would have been nice, good luck with your surgery, hope you get your monitor soon.

MotoSpark
 
Hammerhead666 said:
I'd hoped to take some side by side pics, so perhaps that's the issue.

I emailed them again asking about expidited shipping or cross shipping as I have abdominal surgery on April 28, and I built the system with this monitor for use for the weeks I'll be recovering. We'll see if they make an exception.

M Diddy, where did you buy your monitor?
Click to expand...

Originally got it from Newegg. Never again with a monitor.

"Worst return policy ever...."

222px-The_Simpsons-Jeff_Albertson.png
 
DragoonTD, mattaholic: The following is from http://www.thenerds.net/index.php?page=customer&a=policies

# TheNerds.Net offers a 30 day return policy on selected items based on manufacturer return policies.
# NO returns of any type will be accepted without an RMA number. Any unauthorized returns or cancellation will be assessed a 15% restocking fee.
# NON-DEFECTIVE returns can be accepted directly by TheNerds.Net within 30 days from the invoice date.
# Due to manufacturers' policies, TheNerds.Net cannot accept returns of the following items for exchange, replacement or credit FOR ANY REASON: 3WARE, ABIT, ACER, ALLIED TELESYN, APC, APCC, AQUA SYSTEMS, INC., AROMA CO, ASUS, ATTO TECHNOLOGY, AXIS COMMUNICATION INC., BIXOLON, BUSLINK, CANON, CANOPUS CORPORATION, CHECK POINT, CHIEF MANUFACTURING, COMPAQ, CONNECT3D, CORSAIR, DA-LITE, ELITESCREENS, EZGEAR, EZGEAR FOR IPOD, FUJITSU, HAND HELD PRODUCTS, IBM, JVC, KONICA-MINOLTA, LENOVO, LEXMARK, LG ELECTRONICS, MAGTEK, MATROX, METROLOGIC, MINOLTA, MINOLTA-QMS, MMF, MOTION COMPUTING, MOTION SYSTEMS, MSI, NOKIA, PANASONIC, PEERLESS INDUSTRIES, INC, PHILIPS, POLYCOM, PRIMERA TECHNOLOGY, PROMISE TECHNOLOGY, RCA, RIMAGE CORPORATION, SAMSONITE, SAMSUNG, SONY, SONY ERICSSON, THOMSON, TOSHIBA, UNITECH AMERICA, WACOM, XEROX, YAMAHA, ZBA INC - POS, ZEBRA TECHNOLOGIES, and ZENITH. DEFECTIVE merchandise can be returned for repair or replacement to the manufacturer directly or any authorized service center in your area. Additional manufacturers may be added to this list as: manufacturer policies change, manufacturer goes out of business, or in the case of specially ordered items.
# Customer is responsible for shipping charges on returned items.
# If a product is returned for credit or you cancel your order (after it's been billed), shipping and a 3% credit card convenience fee will be deducted.


I didn't see a pixel-policy, so I can't count on them treating a single dead pixel as a return-worthy defect. To me this is not quite a satisfaction guarantee, either, it seems to me they can simply refuse to issue you an RMA for a non-defective item and then your choice will be to keep it or pay a 15% restocking fee, plus eating shipping charges both ways.

But if you're willing to live with all of the above (and more), you do get 30 days and you don't have to pay the $90 buyer protection add-on.

Well, last night they claimed to have 100 of these in stock, but I didn't get around to posting until today, so I thought I'd better check, and now they're out of stock.

It's possible they never really had any in stock in the first place, that they were planning all along on passing through the order to be dropped from one of the official doublesight resellers. And when they tried to do that in response to an order that came in over the weekend, they found out today that their reseller was out of stock, so now they are too.
That's certainly one way to try to build an internet business without paying any inventory carrying costs, at least.
 
Just received mine from Newegg. Beautiful, but I have found 9 stuck pixels so far. It does seem to have the polarizer. After reading through the thread, I don't think anyone has reported that many stuck pixels, leading me to believe that I don't know what a stuck pixel is. They aren't dead (black) or shifted (leaking backlight). On a white, green, red or blue background, they appear to shift between red and cyan as I move my head back and forth. They aren't visible on black. Is that representative of a stuck pixel?

The greenish-tinted BLB is present in the upper right and lower right (to a lesser degree).

The brightness is blinding at factory settings.

All of that being said, it was amazing to make the switch from my older monitor. This has a stunning picture.
 
eastwind, well my thoughts on them having stock were little doubtful. Other sites are OOS. This monitor looks to be a very good winner. Hopely most people will have good result. I will look at this again in a few months.
 
M Diddy said:
Originally got it from Newegg. Never again with a monitor.

"Worst return policy ever...."

222px-The_Simpsons-Jeff_Albertson.png
Click to expand...

Buy.com is pretty much no questions asked, but you only have 14 days from when it ships, not when it's delivered. to get it in UPS's hands... I applied and received an RMA just in case but I'm glad I'm dealing with Doublesight direct. I'm hoping the replacement will get minimal shipping abuse, and will be a good one coming direct from Doublesight.

They told me to keep the cables and accessories, so the one they send likely won't be in retail packaging.
 
wingnutsglory said:
Just received mine from Newegg. Beautiful, but I have found 9 stuck pixels so far. It does seem to have the polarizer. After reading through the thread, I don't think anyone has reported that many stuck pixels, leading me to believe that I don't know what a stuck pixel is. They aren't dead (black) or shifted (leaking backlight). On a white, green, red or blue background, they appear to shift between red and cyan as I move my head back and forth. They aren't visible on black. Is that representative of a stuck pixel?
Click to expand...

Can anyone confirm this?
 
Does anybody else notice the faint horizontal lines on the screen besides ToastyX and me?

I have been comparing a SOYO 24" VA panel to my Doublesight 24" while photo editing and I don't know which is worse, having less color on the SOYO or having faint lines in the backround of the DS. Is there anybody that uses this panel for photoshop work? I'm just curious if this is something that I will just get used to. This monitor is close to pefect except for these dam lines!
 
dirtdiggler said:
Does anybody else notice the faint horizontal lines on the screen besides ToastyX and me?
Click to expand...

I can see them on light-gray backgrounds. As ToasyX said, this appears to be a "feature" of the IPS technology. To me they're kinda like the support wires on aperture grill CRT's. They're there, but after awhile they eventually become unnoticeable unless I actually go looking for them.
 
I notice the lines when I make the effort to look for them. I use an IPS panel at work, though, so they aren't noticeable to me during normal use.
 
The lines aren't a feature of IPS technology. It's something with the way LG is manufacturing the panels. The lines really shouldn't be there, but I've seen them on every monitor with this particular panel, which includes the Planar PX2611W and the NEC 2690. I've found that the strength of the lines can vary from unit to unit. The 24" H-IPS panels seem to be less susceptible to the lines.
 
I think that 26" monitors have a higher pixel size, therefore the gap between the lines is larger making them more noticeable.
 
Thanks for your feedback. The lines don't always get in the way but when they do it's irritating, other than that, the monitor is beautiful.
 
The best way that I found to ignore the lines was to stop looking out for them. I admire how lovely the colors look and I adore the low input lag. In fact this is the first monitor I feel passionate about.
 
Shipped the monitor off today after trying again to arrange cross shipping with DoubleSight, but I did get an explanation.

It seems they have had to change their policy due to people RMA'ing the monitor due to the "glow". DoubleSight emailed me back apologizing for the difficulty in arranging the RMA cross shipping, and their policy change of not cross shipping this particular model at this time.

DoubleSight said that there is only one kind of panel in this monitor. There is not one panel with a polarizer, and one without. This is true for the panels in the DoubleSight, the Planar, and I assume the NEC.

Due to info on the web (probably this string), they received many RMA requests due to the polarizer/glow issue and found that there was nothing wrong with the panels that were being returned. Because of these unnecessary shipping costs, they are now screening DS-263N RMA requests more closely, and will likely require photographs of any issues to be reviewed by their engineers before any RMA is approved.

I was told cross shipping is no longer an option with this monitor, but they were willing to work with me to expidite return shipping as I have a FedEx account and was willing to pay the difference. You pay shipping back to them with an RMA, so you can ship it any way you want. They return FedEx ground, at their cost, so if you want faster return shipping you'll have to try to arrange and pay for it through them.

My issue was a defect in the liquid crystal layer that allowed approximately 10 pixels worth of backlight to shine through all the time. Once they saw the photos of the issue, and it's location about 2inches to the right of center, there was no problem getting an RMA, even though I still could have returned the monitor to Buy.com. If your issue is just due to the glow, or polarizer, I would assume it will be much more difficult to get an RMA at this point. If you're worried the glow will bother you, buy it somewhere you can return it where you bought it for a refund. Personally, I think people are making the glow out to be a bigger deal than is warranted.

I'm not sure why Toasty and others perceive their replacement monitors have a polarizer. Toasty does sound like he knows of what he speaks when it comes to monitors, so it's hard to ignore his input. Without side by side comparison though, it's difficult to come to any conclusions as to the differences. It may be a difference in other internal hardware and base setting variances for each individual monitor or batch, or something as simple as the oreintation of the outer matte layer. I did notice the glow was much worse when viewing the monitor from above, rather than below the center line.

While it may be DoubleSight isn't telling the truth about this issue, that's not my gut reaction at this point. With this panel type only made by LG Phillips, I find it hard to believe there will be any variances in the construction at all with the same panel. My opinion would change of course if someone had some quanitative data suggesting indeed the makeup of these panels are physically different from batch to batch, but that doesn't seem to be the case here...

DoubleSight support was friendly and helpful, and responsive to my concerns. I would suggest you contact them directly by phone though, they apparently never received my email I sent to them on their web form. Once I spoke with a tech rep, I got his email and he responded to my emails within minutes during business hours.

I will report on the condition and amount of glow in the replacement monitor once it arrives, probably at the end of next week, but anyone interested in this monitor should understand the differences between the IPS panel and others on the market. There can be an appearance of brush strokes on particular shades of grey in the background, but it's barely noticeable. I wouldn't have seen it had I not been looking for it. And of course, there will be a slight whitish haze at extreme viewing angles. I suppose it's up to each individual whether it's a problem or not. It doesn't bother me and I'm usually really picky about visual or aural issues. I think it's a great deal to get this fast a monitor in a 26" format for $670.99 shipped (what I paid at Buy.com). Other than my obvious flaw, the panel was great. No stuck or dead pixels I could find with UDPixel, and next to no backlight bleeding, just a tiny bit slightly to the left of center on the top. It mounted to my wall mount with the standard 100 VESA mount, and though it was very bright, the controls were easy to use to get it set to my liking. I see absolutely no color shifting as I do with my laptop monitor when I move my head, colors stay consistent with no fade across the screen.

I bought this monitor mostly for gaming, and from my use for about a week it's tremendous for that. Excellent response time, no discernable lag, and large, crisp and well defined images with no ghosting. My scores were much better at the server where I play CSS, I'm assuming due to the lower input lag and faster response time over my laptop lcd. Definitely got more headshots... :)

I do think a lot of people are worrying about this needlessly, but that's the nature of high performance computer parts. It probably wouldn't be an issue for most of us without this string. I'm very happy about my purchase so far, despite my issues, and I even considered keeping the faulty monitor as other than my one issue it was perfect. The only time the flaw was apparent was during dark screens in movies or mostly blacked out images in games.
 
Well like someone mentioned in an earlier post. I walked into my computer room to grab something with my polarized sunglasses on and the screen basically disappeared. I don't have another LCD to compare this to (I already sent the other defective unit back...yes DS cross-shipped to me :)) but it seems to have some type of polarizer to do this. Someone should try this with a monitor that has the white glow. Just make sure you have good polarized glasses. I have some Maui Jim's with actual glass lenses.

Also with the sunglasses on I could see a ton of tiny white specks all over the screen...actually they looks like sliver of something. Interesting!
 
Hammerhead666 said:
DoubleSight said that there is only one kind of panel in this monitor. There is not one panel with a polarizer, and one without. This is true for the panels in the DoubleSight, the Planar, and I assume the NEC.

Due to info on the web (probably this string), they received many RMA requests due to the polarizer/glow issue and found that there was nothing wrong with the panels that were being returned. Because of these unnecessary shipping costs, they are now screening DS-263N RMA requests more closely, and will likely require photographs of any issues to be reviewed by their engineers before any RMA is approved.

I was told cross shipping is no longer an option with this monitor, but they were willing to work with me to expidite return shipping as I have a FedEx account and was willing to pay the difference. You pay shipping back to them with an RMA, so you can ship it any way you want. They return FedEx ground, at their cost, so if you want faster return shipping you'll have to try to arrange and pay for it through them.

My issue was a defect in the liquid crystal layer that allowed approximately 10 pixels worth of backlight to shine through all the time. Once they saw the photos of the issue, and it's location about 2inches to the right of center, there was no problem getting an RMA, even though I still could have returned the monitor to Buy.com.

While it may be DoubleSight isn't telling the truth about this issue, that's not my gut reaction at this point. With this panel type only made by LG Phillips, I find it hard to believe there will be any variances in the construction at all with the same panel. My opinion would change of course if someone had some quanitative data suggesting indeed the makeup of these panels are physically different from batch to batch, but that doesn't seem to be the case here...

And of course, there will be a slight whitish haze at extreme viewing angles. I suppose it's up to each individual whether it's a problem or not. It doesn't bother me and I'm usually really picky about visual or aural issues. I think it's a great deal to get this fast a monitor in a 26" format for $670.99 shipped (what I paid at Buy.com). Other than my obvious flaw, the panel was great.

I do think a lot of people are worrying about this needlessly, but that's the nature of high performance computer parts. It probably wouldn't be an issue for most of us without this string. I'm very happy about my purchase so far, despite my issues, and I even considered keeping the faulty monitor as other than my one issue it was perfect. The only time the flaw was apparent was during dark screens in movies or mostly blacked out images in games.
Click to expand...


This makes a lot more sense than randomly shipping with an without polarizers. Some points:


All LCDs have a polarizer, it is inherent in their function, from digital watches to LCD monitors. Light polarization is a key factor in LCD function.

H-IPS panels are different than previous S-IPS panels which had a violet glow off angle, particularly visible on dark colors. H-IPS have a neutral whitish glow, that is still much better than VA color shift IMO. This is situation normal for newer H-IPS panels.

NEC is one of the few companies that actually works on enhancing beyond the basic panels. I do believe that the ATW Polarizer in NEC H-IPS screens is an additional extra polarizer added by NEC that specifically eliminates the haze/glow. Either this is added by NEC themselves, or is an extra expense item specified by NEC. It seems unlikely these are going to end up on other companies panels by accident and if it did, it would be a rare situation.

I have yet to see any evidence that there has been any DS monitor with the NEC specific A-TW polarizer to eliminate haze (can someone point to the contrary). I just see differing reactions to the normal H-IPS haze, and a couple of people with genuine defective panels. Peoples reaction to the same panel will vary a lot more than the panel will IMO. Just like for some people AG coatings are the end of the world and other don't notice them, or lag is a killer for some an non existent for other, or VA viewing angles are perfect for some and a complete deal breaker for others (like me). The subjective reactions to LCD issues would make you think one person is seeing black where the other sees white if taken at face value, so you have factor in the subjective nature of peoples viewpoints on this.
 
Sorry, mine has the polarizer. I had the Planar without polarizer and the white glow was very noticeable. My DS does not have this glow at all instead has a little bit of a red tint to it that from what I hear is common with HIPS with a polarizer.

If you go to page 12 of this post you will see an example of with and without the polarizer. Clearly mine has the polarizer so do other people. There are a few reasons why DS would lie about there being none with a polarizer. If they claimed they had polarizers everyone without a polarizer would call and want a replacement.. They could decline if they wanted to but they just dont want people calling and being disappointed in the first place.... Second, it was only a once in a lifetime mistake, or they did it for reviews..... Third, the people you were talking to had no clue even what the polarizer does so they just declined it.......... Theres more reasons as well..


I understand people without polarizers are trying to be happy with what they got, its still a great monitor after all for the price.. You just didnt get the extra benefits of what the polarizer provides
 
Pic on page 12 is versus a now ancient Apple 23" LCD. Hardly definitive in my book. When I see it next to an NEC 2490/2460 would be more convincing.

I guess it is possilbe this is a newer batch and they have changed the characteristics, but the talk of red tint, makes it sound more like older S-IPS panels than newer H-IPS.

Ugh. Either way I won't go near a Monitor with a wiff of a lotto. I buy products, not a chance at a product.

LCDs are such a mess. Bring on OLED.
 
Uhh the hint of red tint is also a characteristic of the NEC 26" with the polarizer. From what I hear about SIPS is its not just a hint of red, its more of a orange thats as obvious as the white glow of the NON polarized Planar. Heres a picture of the planar next to the NEC.


Picture thanks to ToastyX


As you can see, its similar to the Apple vs DS pictures..


Hope its ok to link to your Picture ToastyX!
 
redlinez33 said:
Uhh the hint of red tint is also a characteristic of the NEC 26" with the polarizer. From what I hear about SIPS is its not just a hint of red, its more of a orange thats as obvious as the white glow of the NON polarized Planar. Heres a picture of the planar next to the NEC.
Click to expand...

I would still like to see DS next to NEC. Also we have a bunch of S-IPS panels here at work (HP 2065). The off axis color is violet, closer to red/pink than orange.

Again, even if some have better polarizer, that makes it a lotto and I won't buy a $700 lotto ticket.
 
Its a lotto ticket sure, but its still a steal assuming these defects go down in number. The planar didnt have a polarizer and it was $900, $700 for a monitor that has better picture quality than any monitor in its price range is still a good value. Its not exactly the same as the lotto as samsung or HP has done, with the DS you are still getting the same LG IPS panel, only the polarizer is what makes it different. The polarizer doesnt dramatically affect image quality unless you are regularly going to sit off center.

My problem I see with this monitor right now is the quality control problems. Mine is of good quality (has typical LCD flaws, same as the Planar I had), but it seems a lot of people are getting major defects in theres, hopefully this new batch fixes these problems and everyone can have a high quality monitor they pay for.......
 
Honestly though Red, how many MAJOR defects have you seen??? I count 3 total in this thread. The problems others are complaining about are dead or stuck pixels, excessive backlight bleed, and perhaps some other physical defects with the monitor (all common with other brands of LCDs).

IMO, there QC isn't all the bad and people are making the polarizer thing much bigger then it actually is. My first panel, without the polarizer, had a great picture from pretty much all angles and the haze was only really noticeable at extreme horizontals. The bleed on it, however, was pretty bad, so I gambled for a new panel and got a polarized version with less bleed to replace it. Had a I gotten one without a polarizer, I may have been a little disappointed, but still would have been perfectly happy with a 700.00 26" IPS non-polarized panel.

All in all, this thing is still the best value out now as far as LCD's go, polarizer or not.
 
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