Doom Eternal accidentally ships without Denuvo DRM, making pirates’ job easier

sfsuphysics

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Exactly, piracy is a service problem. You need to sell what people want and deliver it how they want it, that's the key to ending piracy, not denuvo or any other protection.

Hey, you don't want to buy our games? How about if we put it in a cage you can't take it out of, and you have to have an online connection to start the game, and you are not allowed to modify it in any way, will you buy it then?
How is it a service problem? You go to a website and click "purchase" and poof you have it downloading to your computer how much easier does it need to be? You think because you need to log in sometimes that was the breaking point? Hate to say this, piracy has been around longer than Denuvo has existed, longer than "always connected" requirements were on. Not sure what delivery method you think people want, I mean naked big titty women delivering games on a silver platter for you then give you a blow job afterwards? Yeah I'm sure people will happily pay $60 for that game too.


Ultimately creators put a price on what they make, which is effectively entertainment, it's not food, water, or some other essential of life, it is by all accounts a luxury and it's a luxury that you can have just in a different form (different games), and you either pay that price or you don't get to enjoy that entertainment. Piracy is a way of saying "ho ho ho we're going to enjoy it ... and not going to pay you a single dime", you can't tell me way back in the days of 5.25" floppies that piracy was about a "service problem", piracy is a way to get shit for free... PERIOD, trust me I know, I went to my fair share of Commodore 64 workshops at the local rec center that had some guy talking about shit you could do up front, and the vast majority of people were in the back swapping floppies and making copies, oh and the guy talking up front... yeah after he finished he came back and got some shit too. Something that was literally NEVER said "What? We gotta go to a store and buy games? Damn I wish they'd invent something where everyone can just get on a computer and type stuff in and get games that way, I totally would pay for that instead of sitting back here spending all this time copying floppies". Free is free. Argue that it's an economic thing and certain segments of the population can't afford it, but feel they're entitled to have it anyways, argue that games cost too much in general and you're making some sort of stance against a company for it's business practices, but at the end of the day it's because it's fucking free. Sure piracy may in some way get lessened if things get cheaper, but eventually people want shit for free, they'll get it for free. How many Hollywood movies are coming out super early digitally because of Coronavirus? Nope, they're all being pirated with good quality rips super early because of Coronavirus. This is not a fucking delivery/service problem, it's a fucking "I want it and don't want to pay for it" problem.

And yeah I'm being a hypocrite here, but I'm not trying to justify what I do.
 

Flogger23m

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People who hoard EGS weekly freebie games never play them either. The hoarding is its own minigame.

I don't think I'm the only one, but I only redeem free games that I may actually play. Most of the freebies are crap, no matter who is giving them away. I just grab the good stuff, Assassin's Creed, Tomb Raider, Metro and some of the decent looking indie stuff. I now have duplicates of many games on multiple clients such as Watch Dogs and Dead Space. Redundancy is good. But I'd rather not have my libraries be a mess of asset flips so I don't redeem everything. I can't be the only one.

How is it a service problem? You go to a website and click "purchase" and poof you have it downloading to your computer how much easier does it need to be? You think because you need to log in sometimes that was the breaking point?

"The voice actors don't speak Russian!"
"My country charges me VAT but I'll blame the game devs and not my government!"

Typically what it boils down to.
 
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M76

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How is it a service problem? You go to a website and click "purchase" and poof you have it downloading to your computer how much easier does it need to be? You think because you need to log in sometimes that was the breaking point? Hate to say this, piracy has been around longer than Denuvo has existed, longer than "always connected" requirements were on. Not sure what delivery method you think people want, I mean naked big titty women delivering games on a silver platter for you then give you a blow job afterwards? Yeah I'm sure people will happily pay $60 for that game too.
I know the usual suspects like to duck their head under the sand and pretend nothing outside their world view exists. If you don't want to accept reality there is nothing anyone can do for you.

Just as steam and netflix originally reduced piracy the fragmentation of the market will increases it. That's a service problem. People don't want to subscribe to the n+1th streaming service, and they don't want to install and use the n+1th digital walled garden for games. You don't think that's a service problem? Wake up.

Ultimately creators put a price on what they make, which is effectively entertainment, it's not food, water, or some other essential of life, it is by all accounts a luxury and it's a luxury that you can have just in a different form (different games), and you either pay that price or you don't get to enjoy that entertainment.
Two words that should be elementary to anyone talking about any product: Supply and demand. If they put one too many hoops to jump over or they put a price on it that is too steep for the value of the product, that's supply not meeting demand.

Case in point there is one streaming service that I have been paying €9.00 a month over the past three or four years now. Then for 2020 they "wisely" decided to raise the price to €19.90/month. So I cancelled my subscription. I might sign up again 4 months from now for one month and binge what I want from it. Had they left the price alone they would've got €108 from me this year. Instead they get about €60 now, if I sign up three times for one month during the year. That's supply not meeting demand. That's exactly how selling a videogame for $50 instead of $60 could be the difference between selling 1 million or 1.5 million copies.

Piracy is a way of saying "ho ho ho we're going to enjoy it ... and not going to pay you a single dime", you can't tell me way back in the days of 5.25" floppies that piracy was about a "service problem", piracy is a way to get shit for free... PERIOD
Sure there are some people who see it that way, they are usually very dumb, and you can do nothing about them. I've explained in my previous post why I "pirate" netflix shows, are you calling me a liar to my face? Or do you admit that you might be wrong about the nature of all piracy? These are your only two options.

, trust me I know, I went to my fair share of Commodore 64 workshops at the local rec center that had some guy talking about shit you could do up front, and the vast majority of people were in the back swapping floppies and making copies, oh and the guy talking up front... yeah after he finished he came back and got some shit too. Something that was literally NEVER said "What? We gotta go to a store and buy games? Damn I wish they'd invent something where everyone can just get on a computer and type stuff in and get games that way, I totally would pay for that instead of sitting back here spending all this time copying floppies". Free is free.
If you think that way the problem is with you. Not everyone thinks like that, and the fact that so many are willing to put up money to creators through patreon and similar services is proof of that. Create good content that people want and they are happy to throw money at you even if they don't have to. But create crappy products with predatory monetization, and sell it on a walled garden: people don't pay you, and they wouldn't pay you even if they had no option to pirate it.

Argue that it's an economic thing and certain segments of the population can't afford it, but feel they're entitled to have it anyways, argue that games cost too much in general and you're making some sort of stance against a company for it's business practices, but at the end of the day it's because it's fucking free. Sure piracy may in some way get lessened if things get cheaper, but eventually people want shit for free, they'll get it for free. How many Hollywood movies are coming out super early digitally because of Coronavirus? Nope, they're all being pirated with good quality rips super early because of Coronavirus. This is not a fucking delivery/service problem, it's a fucking "I want it and don't want to pay for it" problem.

And yeah I'm being a hypocrite here, but I'm not trying to justify what I do.
I see now, you're projecting your own guilt onto others. Well I have to burst your bubble not all pirates think like you do. I don't torrent netflix shows because free is free, I do it because it's more convenient than using their crappy software and apps, that you cannot select stream quality on manually, and refuses to run on anything less than a 1060GTX video card. That's the very definition of a service problem.
 

sfsuphysics

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Just as steam and netflix originally reduced piracy the fragmentation of the market will increases it. That's a service problem. People don't want to subscribe to the n+1th streaming service, and they don't want to install and use the n+1th digital walled garden for games. You don't think that's a service problem? Wake up.
No that's a YOU problem, you don't want to have Steam and Epic and EA? Why? Oh no the clutter of having 3 icons on your desktop... yeah I'm not going to lie having ONE service is more convenient to be certain, a one stop shop where everything is at, more so with TV shows though than games, so perhaps that's two separate arguments of piracy there. And I get it, no one has made a front end loader that automatically lists each tvshow across all the platforms and then just automagically opens up the app and plays said video, but if you think that is a leading cause of piracy you are pretty delusional.

Sure there are some people who see it that way, they are usually very dumb, and you can do nothing about them. I've explained in my previous post why I "pirate" netflix shows, are you calling me a liar to my face? Or do you admit that you might be wrong about the nature of all piracy? These are your only two options.
I'll answer this one though, I was wrong about my over generalization of piracy, true if you break it down to it's roots it's about having something the way you want it and there's no negotiation, that's your justification, you are entitled to your way or fuck them you're use their shit without any compensation. You have shitty streaming services... well instead of just living with that, you pirate, you can't do 4k, well you can't follow their rules so you pirate. I get it, there's something out there and you want it the way you want, whether it's due to shitty service, lack of options (e.g. 4k) or cost whether that cost is really really tiny or free. So there you happy? Piracy is about entitlement of having something that someone else says "no" to. You can't watch Game of Thrones in your region for whatever reason, so screw the powers that put that into motion you're going to take it for yourself. That's piracy

If you think that way the problem is with you. Not everyone thinks like that, and the fact that so many are willing to put up money to creators through patreon and similar services is proof of that. Create good content that people want and they are happy to throw money at you even if they don't have to. But create crappy products with predatory monetization, and sell it on a walled garden: people don't pay you, and they wouldn't pay you even if they had no option to pirate it.
Sure create good content and people will throw money at you, absolutely. But how does that explain piracy again? Shitty content gets pirated? Why would people get shitty content? Just for the sake of having it... because it's FREE? "I won't pay for that, but I sure as fuck will download and watch/play it"

I see now, you're projecting your own guilt onto others. Well I have to burst your bubble not all pirates think like you do. I don't torrent netflix shows because free is free, I do it because it's more convenient than using their crappy software and apps, that you cannot select stream quality on manually, and refuses to run on anything less than a 1060GTX video card. That's the very definition of a service problem. I think that I should get something that is not available to me otherwise because of ... reasons.
Talk about projecting... you're literally saying piracy is because things don't work the way you want them to which is your rationalization for piracy. I'm have no guilt over what I do. But I'm not going to sit here and say "well if they made things so cheap that there's no way to break even selling your product there wouldn't be any piracy!"
 

IcePickFreak

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Exactly, piracy is a service problem. You need to sell what people want and deliver it how they want it, that's the key to ending piracy, not denuvo or any other protection.

Hey, you don't want to buy our games? How about if we put it in a cage you can't take it out of, and you have to have an online connection to start the game, and you are not allowed to modify it in any way, will you buy it then?

Yeah, that should do it!
If you think that's bad for a $50-$60 game, you'll love what Ferrari does with some it's 2 & 3mil USD cars and the Client-Test-Driver program.
 

DukenukemX

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I'll answer this one though, I was wrong about my over generalization of piracy, true if you break it down to it's roots it's about having something the way you want it and there's no negotiation, that's your justification, you are entitled to your way or fuck them you're use their shit without any compensation. You have shitty streaming services... well instead of just living with that, you pirate, you can't do 4k, well you can't follow their rules so you pirate. I get it, there's something out there and you want it the way you want, whether it's due to shitty service, lack of options (e.g. 4k) or cost whether that cost is really really tiny or free. So there you happy? Piracy is about entitlement of having something that someone else says "no" to. You can't watch Game of Thrones in your region for whatever reason, so screw the powers that put that into motion you're going to take it for yourself. That's piracy
Personally, I'd rather have services like Steam and Epic focus on their services instead of what games they offer. I'd rather go to GoG if it means no DRM and better customer support but games aren't usually available for GoG. Fragmenting a market is usually what gets people into piracy, among other things.
Sure create good content and people will throw money at you, absolutely. But how does that explain piracy again? Shitty content gets pirated? Why would people get shitty content? Just for the sake of having it... because it's FREE? "I won't pay for that, but I sure as fuck will download and watch/play it"
There's a number of reasons. Firstly, you don't know if it's shitty content so you download it to try it. Lots of games I thought I'd hate but in reality I loved it a lot. Too many terrible games that I didn't like but that's why you try before you buy. Secondly, does piracy offer you more than if you bought the $60 game? The answer is unfortunately yes, especially when things like DLC can easily exceed the value of the $60 game. As an original Skyrim owner I can't even use some of my mods because I need the DLC and I don't want the DLC but the mods won't work without it. I refuse to buy Skyrim Special Edition or whatever, especially since a lot of my mods won't work with it. I regret buying the game because it now punishes me for not pirating.
Talk about projecting... you're literally saying piracy is because things don't work the way you want them to which is your rationalization for piracy. I'm have no guilt over what I do. But I'm not going to sit here and say "well if they made things so cheap that there's no way to break even selling your product there wouldn't be any piracy!"
Customer is always right and if I think the product you sell is overpriced then pirating I shall go. Capitalism doesn't care about morals, so why should I?
 

Flogger23m

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If they put one too many hoops to jump over or they put a price on it that is too steep for the value of the product, that's supply not meeting demand.

Except this isn't a traditional supply/demand issue as supply is not an issue. Actually, the supply is worse for pirated versions. Over time the download speed goes down as the torrent becomes less popular. The same can't be said for Steam/Origin/EGS. Likewise the service isn't as good in general. Speaking of Doom Eternal, one such torrent had malware in it. The chances of you finding malware in an officially bought game is practically zero. Plus cloud saves, faster patches, don't have to wait for patches/DLC to be cracked, don't have to worry about save mismatching from different cracked versions of a game.

So it isn't a supply issue, or a service issue.

It is a demand issue. But to turn around and then pirate it proves that service and supply were not an issue in the first place, they were in fact of little importance to the user. What it boils down to is someone being lazy/not agreeing to the terms of a product/service, and therefore deciding to take it anyways.
 

GoldenTiger

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It is a demand issue. But to turn around and then pirate it proves that service and supply were not an issue in the first place, they were in fact of little importance to the user. What it boils down to is someone being lazy/not agreeing to the terms of a product/service, and therefore deciding to take it anyways.
This. It is an entitlement and I want stuff for free problem, nothing to do with the product. Pirates are really pathetic when they claim other wise.
 

wizzi01

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Yeah fuck thieves. It's 2020 and piracy still doesn't equal theft, no matter how much you repeat it.

So, you'll let strangers take your car whenever they want as long as they return it, right? I mean it isn't theft.
 

GoldenTiger

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They can copy the car and take the copy, sure!!
Sucks to be a car dealer then when all your customers take for free, get their driving done, then keep the copy anyway. Just like with games.... You pirates want it free. No cost to copy doesn't mean the item is free for you to take. It is intellectual property.
 
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DrLobotomy

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Sucks to be a car dealer then when all your customers take for free, get their driving done, then keep the copy anyway. Just like with games.... You pirates want it free. No cost to copy doesn't mean the item is free for you to take. It is intellectual property.
I can goto the library and rent a book for free or I can goto bookstore and buy the book.

/subject
 

GoldenTiger

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I can goto the library and rent a book for free or I can goto bookstore and buy the book.

/subject
Lol, that's not how the world or libraries work (your taxes pay for the library which buys the book... There isn't another magic infinite number of physical copies). You are a thief wanting to take without paying. Just stop the nonsense. Everyone sees right through your excuses.
 
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Ebernanut

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I don't understand why these DRM threads always getting sidetracked with piracy talk. Pirates will always pirate and DRM will never stop them therefore it's an anti-consumer practice done at best to appease the idiot shareholders and executives and at worst an end around on consumer rights like first sale doctrine.

It it actually did stop pirates and hadn't cause me endless problems over the years as a paying customer I might be in favor of it but as it stands intrusive DRM(which denuvo is) rates somewhere between toxic algae and ambulance chasers IMO.
 
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DukenukemX

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So, you condone theft. You're argument of it not being a real item is just a justification of your poor morals.
It isn't real, hence why we have copyright. It's more of a collection of ideas sown together. Using morality to push against piracy obviously doesn't work, otherwise people would have stopped. If you want to stop piracy you have to sweeten the deal, like Netflix did. After Netflix came out, movie piracy had declined as people had no problem paying $8 a month for unlimited access to content. Now that video streaming is fragmented, you can be assured that piracy has gained traction yet again. Video games aren't cheap as they demand $60 per game. Additional funds for DLC and micro-transactions. Lower prices and offer your game to all platforms and piracy should be reduced. That's why games go down in price after a few months of release to get the cheapos.
 

M76

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No that's a YOU problem, you don't want to have Steam and Epic and EA?
Good, we are getting there, baby steps, but we are getting there. Yes it is a me problem, and who am I? I am the consumer. And what is it when the consumers wants are not met? Supply doesn't meet demand. Service problem confirmed.


Why? Oh no the clutter of having 3 icons on your desktop... yeah I'm not going to lie having ONE service is more convenient to be certain, a one stop shop where everything is at, more so with TV shows though than games, so perhaps that's two separate arguments of piracy there. And I get it, no one has made a front end loader that automatically lists each tvshow across all the platforms and then just automagically opens up the app and plays said video, but if you think that is a leading cause of piracy you are pretty delusional.
I didn't say it was the leading cause, becuase it cannot be verified, but it is one cause for sure. And it is the main cause for me. And where there is one, there are more for sure. Other causes that have nothing to do with "free is free". You don't think that the success of patreon type services is proof that people will pay for things they want?


I'll answer this one though, I was wrong about my over generalization of piracy, true if you break it down to it's roots it's about having something the way you want it and there's no negotiation, that's your justification, you are entitled to your way or fuck them you're use their shit without any compensation. You have shitty streaming services... well instead of just living with that, you pirate, you can't do 4k, well you can't follow their rules so you pirate. I get it, there's something out there and you want it the way you want, whether it's due to shitty service, lack of options (e.g. 4k) or cost whether that cost is really really tiny or free. So there you happy? Piracy is about entitlement of having something that someone else says "no" to. You can't watch Game of Thrones in your region for whatever reason, so screw the powers that put that into motion you're going to take it for yourself. That's piracy
It's supply not meeting demand they do not offer what I'd be willing to pay for. Or at the price I'm willing to pay. Both are service problems. It has nothing to do with piracy. If there was absolutely no way to pirate a show I want to see. (There are many examples) I'd still not buy their service if it is inconvenient or not the right price. For example I used to love Drive on Youtube, then they went and created their own streaming service, I haven't watched them ever since (this was at least 5 years ago). Same with Roadkill on Motor Trend, they went and created their own streaming service. Which is mighty inconvenient, so I haven't watched the show ever since, regardless of the fact that afaik it is still free on their crappy little streaming service. Still not convinced that it is a service problem?

It's good that you bring up geolocking because it is the epitome of service problems. They literally don't allow you to buy the product even if you want to, and then have the gall to moan about piracy? I had this happen to me with another streaming service I used to subscribe to. They started geolocking their streams from my country, so I cancelled. But you still don't think it's a service problem?


Sure create good content and people will throw money at you, absolutely. But how does that explain piracy again? Shitty content gets pirated?
Haven't you been listening? Supply and demand. Wrong price, or wrong delivery method or both = increased piracy. With a shitty product they wouldn't buy it even if it was wrapped in golden foil and handed to you on a silver plate, that's entirely another issue (the creator being out of touch with their consumers) Ubisoft literally thought they will break bank with Ghost Recon breakpoint. Instead they got bitchslapped hard. They were completely out of touch with demand. What I'm saying is that piracy is not the cause of low sales, crappy service is the cause of piracy, not the other way around. Of course you can't completely eliminate piracy with improved prices and service, because the pathological pirates will pirate anyway. But those who can be turned around will be turned around by improving the service / price / or for god's sake letting people buy your product in the first place (geolocking).

Why would people get shitty content? Just for the sake of having it... because it's FREE? "I won't pay for that, but I sure as fuck will download and watch/play it"
You were arguing for free is free this whole time? Now that it suddenly doesn't support your agenda free isn't free anymore? I admit I like to download crappy Z movies, that I'd never pay for too. They cannot sell that by improving the service but if it's free I FF watch it for laughs occasionally.

Talk about projecting... you're literally saying piracy is because things don't work the way you want them to which is your rationalization for piracy. I'm have no guilt over what I do. But I'm not going to sit here and say "well if they made things so cheap that there's no way to break even selling your product there wouldn't be any piracy!"
What I'm saying is that rational people wouldn't pay for bad service even if piracy wasn't an option. I cited many examples of how I abandoned services/shows regardless of not being able to pirate them. I'm not even interested in pirating them, because it is more hassle than it's worth. Same with epic exclusive games: I wouldn't even pirate them. I haven't pirated videogames in over a decade, because prices were acceptable and service was good enough, then suddenly epic store comes around and ruins it for us. And no I haven't pirated a single epic store exclusive, because there are other games I can play. At this point I just shrug my shoulders and move on when a game I'm interested in announces exclusivity. Is that not a service problem? I did not choose to ignore the games because I could pirate them, then why would I buy any other games that are not exclusives? I choose to ignore them because of bad service.

I'm not even arguing that bad service is the main cause of piracy, I'm arguing that bad service causes lost sales, and piracy is an independent issue, that is increased if you offer bad service.
 
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M76

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So, you'll let strangers take your car whenever they want as long as they return it, right? I mean it isn't theft.
Were you born today? That is the worst and oldest argument that has been debunked a million times over. At this point it is more embarrassing to argue that than being a flat earther.

If you pirate something you don't take the original, you make an identical copy of it without affecting the original.
I'd gladly let strangers make copies of my car and take that copy and do whatever they want with it.
And yes I'd download a car if I could, to go in front of another old and worthless argument.
 

EniGmA1987

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So where is the Denuvo vs Non-Denuvo performance comparison?


edit: found a quick comparison here:

Unfortunately, the videos are not synced up, and no mention of the resolution or settings used that I could see. Also not the most top of the line GPU. But still nice to see some gains from such a quick and dirty test
 
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Master_shake_

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So where is the Denuvo vs Non-Denuvo performance comparison?


edit: found a quick comparison here:

Unfortunately, the videos are synced up, and no mention of the resolution or settings used that I could see. Also not the most top of the line GPU. But still nice to see some gains from such a quick and dirty test
8 fps difference is pretty bad.

there are arguments about intel vs amd over less than 8 fps.

Denuvo = bad
 

DukenukemX

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Same with Roadkill on Motor Trend, they went and created their own streaming service. Which is mighty inconvenient, so I haven't watched the show ever since, regardless of the fact that afaik it is still free on their crappy little streaming service. Still not convinced that it is a service problem?
I guess I'm not the only one who stopped watching Motor Trend when they left YouTube. Their episodes get me made anyway when I see them take an old car and mutilate it for some wacky episode.
But those who can be turned around will be turned around by improving the service / price / or for god's sake letting people buy your product in the first place (geolocking).
I personally would like games ported to Linux. Proton works but... I'd rather have the game run native on Linux. Much less problems that way. I still haven't bought Witcher 3 because the said they would port it to Linux.

Vote with your wallet, not a torrent.
tenor.gif
 

M76

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I personally would like games ported to Linux. Proton works but... I'd rather have the game run native on Linux. Much less problems that way. I still haven't bought Witcher 3 because the said they would port it to Linux.
Yeah, porting games to linux is a bit more involved than flicking the geobanning switch off. It's an investment that's hard to justify. Even if all linux users were confirmed gamers.
 

illli

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eh I haven't pirated a game in many years. Mainly b/c of cheap deals like humble bundles, free games from epic and amazon prime etc, which resulted in having a massive backlog. By the time this game drops to like $5 I'll pick it up. Sure it might be a couple years from now, but I'm in no rush.
 
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Denuvo is exactly why I cannot play Monster Hunter World.
They had a recent update (early last week?) that ADDED Denuvo and now I cannot even launch the game.
I just got the game a couple days before with my RX 5700 and was able to launch it before the update.
I've already spent too much time troublshooting it and I'm not the only one...
I would literally have to pirate the game just so I can play it.

Denuvo can go die the most painful death imaginable.
 

sfsuphysics

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Good, we are getting there, baby steps, but we are getting there. Yes it is a me problem, and who am I? I am the consumer. And what is it when the consumers wants are not met? Supply doesn't meet demand. Service problem confirmed.
Let me ask you this, we're not talking piracy as a whole just you since you gave an example of why you do what you do. You pirate Netflix shows primarily because 1) the interface is shitty, 2) service is shitty, and 3) they won't give you 4k content for whatever reason, so I would assume that if they didn't have a shitty interface, service and gave 4k you would not pirate Netflix shows assuming it was at the "Netflix price" everyone has know to love (even if it has gone up over the years).? So do you currently pay for Netflix now and simply download the shows because it's more convenient for you? Because if you did I totally could understand and justify everything you're doing, in fact I wouldn't even label what you do as piracy but more like you're manually making a DVR to watch shows when you want to because you do pay for what they offer, even if what they offer in your area is in some way "crippled". Now if you don't pay for Netflix, you're kind of pointing back towards my original abstract in that most people pirate because it's free (or cheaper in some way if you're paying for usenet access, VPN, etc to "hide your tracks"), because obviously you enjoy the content that is being made, you're just not a fan of the delivery system, so why not give them money for their content and just use your own delivery system that you find "better"
 

Derangel

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8 fps difference is pretty bad.

there are arguments about intel vs amd over less than 8 fps.

Denuvo = bad

8 fps when you're already over 120 is nothing. Beyond that, the test is flawed anyway. The two runs seem like they're different in more than just dealing with enemies reacting differently between runs and there's no mention of settings of any kind. I'd wait for better tests to make a call one way or the other on Denuvo in Eternal.
 

Master_shake_

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8 fps when you're already over 120 is nothing. Beyond that, the test is flawed anyway. The two runs seem like they're different in more than just dealing with enemies reacting differently between runs and there's no mention of settings of any kind. I'd wait for better tests to make a call one way or the other on Denuvo in Eternal.
8 fps is performance you are paying for and you are having it taken away by a greedy drm scheme.

imagine not being trusted by the people who want you to buy their wares
 

Derangel

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8 fps is performance you are paying for and having it taken away by a greedy drm scheme.

You can lose 8 fps in that kind of test just by performing different actions at different times. The difference isn't even 6%, it's just barely over 5%. A 5% difference is margin of error in most cases.
 

Master_shake_

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You can lose 8 fps in that kind of test just by performing different actions at different times. The difference isn't even 6%, it's just barely over 5%. A 5% difference is margin of error in most cases.

it's still 8 you aren't getting and that you have no effect on.

and the way you tell it it could be a loss up to 16 with the DRM already taking 8.
 

Derangel

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it's still 8 you aren't getting and that you have no effect on.

Did you even read what I fucking wrote? The flaws in the test mean it's invalid, that means the differences may not even be due to Denuvo and simply due to the differences between runs.
 

Master_shake_

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Did you even read what I fucking wrote? The flaws in the test mean it's invalid, that means the differences may not even be due to Denuvo and simply due to the differences between runs.
but the one constant is that DRM was running on one system and not the other.
 

Derangel

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but the one constant is that DRM was running on one system and not the other.

Except that doesn't fucking matter! The entire fucking test is invalid because it was done poorly! And numbers being within reasonable margin of error means there is zero real difference because the only notable difference would come from changes between runs! This is a bad test that doesn't prove anything about Eternal's implementation of Denuvo. Don't hype up a shit test just because it fits your narrative. Wait for better, accurate, testing.
 

Master_shake_

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Except that doesn't fucking matter! The entire fucking test is invalid because it was done poorly! And numbers being within reasonable margin of error means there is zero real difference because the only notable difference would come from changes between runs! This is a bad test that doesn't prove anything about Eternal's implementation of Denuvo. Don't hype up a shit test just because it fits your narrative. Wait for better, accurate, testing.
imagine defending DRM this much.

muh loss of ownership

right now those 8fps are all that matters.
 

Derangel

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imagine defending DRM this much.

right now those 8fps are all that matters.

I'm not defending DRM. I'm calling out a bad test and you acting like it proves something it doesn't. You are only accepting the test because it fits your narrative, you don't even care that it's obviously flawed and invalid.
 

Master_shake_

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I'm not defending DRM. I'm calling out a bad test and you acting like it proves something it doesn't. You are only accepting the test because it fits your narrative, you don't even care that it's obviously flawed and invalid.
do better then

you make a comparison video

then we can argue about that too.
 

Derangel

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do better then

you make a comparison video

then we can argue about that too.

Jesus fucking Christ man. You are really desperate for that test to be accurate. Why are you so dead set on defending a shit benchmark?

PS: "Do better" is not a retort. I don't need to "do better" in order to call out a bad test. That is a weak argument that people only make when they have no real counter.
 
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