Master_shake_
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2012
- Messages
- 17,794
a shit benchmark because you say it's shit.
oh no it's not synced up. lol neither are half the benchmarks in *real* reveiws that don't have canned ones.
what makes it shit?
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Doom Eternal accidentally ships without Denuvo DRM, making pirates’ job easier
- Thread starter Master_shake_
- Start date
oh no it's not synced up. lol neither are half the benchmarks in *real* reveiws that don't have canned ones.
what makes it shit?
I explained why I think it's bad! Not being synced up is fine, but it also looks like they take different actions in each run, which aren't just related to difference in enemy reactions. There's no mention of settings (they do clarify in the comments that it's 1080p but provide no further details). I could go further and say that not having any frametime/1% and 0.1% results don't show a complete picture. This is especially important because Denuvo has been known to effect game smoothness in some titles. While not required and a minor nitpick, loading times would have been nice to see as well, as that is something Denuvo effects on every title regardless of how it's implemented. Everything about the test feels like it was slapped together as fast as possible in order to get clicks. It's an incredibly lazy, half-assed, effort.
Master_shake_
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2012
- Messages
- 17,794
you didn't visit the youtube page?
My PC Specs: ►Ryzen 5 2600X
►Zotac Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 8GB DDR5
►G.Skill Ripjaws V (8*2) 16GB DDR4 RAM @2933 Mhz
►MSI B450M Bazooka Plus Motherboard ►Deepcool Gammaxx GT RGB Air Cooler
►Cooler Master MasterWatt 750W PSU
►NZXT H500 Mid Tower Cabinet
too busy trying to shit all over the board i guess.
I'm not sure if you realize this but game settings and system specs are two different things
Master_shake_
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2012
- Messages
- 17,794
still shitting on it
ffs...
all that word salad and all you had to do was click the fucking video.
Ah, fair. I missed that in the title. Care to address everything else I brought up?
Master_shake_
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2012
- Messages
- 17,794
he was asked for frametime results.
they haven't been given. the issue with not having a canned benchmark is that his actions dictate what we see and so far he is the only one who has provided any benchmark.
i don't suspect we'll more review sites do that, shtting where you eat and all... so independent testing is likely all we'll get.
but as it sits the difference is 8fps.
I'm hoping someone like Overlord Gaming takes a stab at it. His tests aren't always perfect, but there's some real effort put into them that pushes them into being more reliable.
Not sure what it matters, even if the Denuvo version was faster, pirates will justify their actions with something else.
The pirates have to want to improve their morals for any "convincing" to happen. The issue is not with what is being pirated, it is the person doing the pirating.
In other words, quit wasting each other's time arguing. How are you going to convince someone the sky is blue? Either they see it or they don't.
The pirates have to want to improve their morals for any "convincing" to happen. The issue is not with what is being pirated, it is the person doing the pirating.
In other words, quit wasting each other's time arguing. How are you going to convince someone the sky is blue? Either they see it or they don't.
Master_shake_
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2012
- Messages
- 17,794
it makes sense that the performance is lower on drm version
if the DRM uses more cpu resources the boost clock on a 2600x drops. at 1080p that can be a big difference in clock speed anywhere between 3.6 to 4.2 ghz.
on the intel side difference isn't going to be that much and if you overclock even less.
so if you have a revew that includes overclocking the cpu then you likely wont' see anything.
- Joined
- May 18, 1997
- Messages
- 55,634
Wow. Almost like that is exactly what I typed out.
cybereality
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2008
- Messages
- 8,789
I'm a game developer myself, and I buy all my games to support the developers. But people can do what they want, I'm only concerned about my own actions.
It's understandable that some people, especially in developing countries, might not have the funds to spend on $60 on entertainment, and also probably wouldn't have bought the game anyway.
When I finish my game I'm working on, I'm considering just uploading it to torrent sites myself, so people can play for free without downloading malware in the process.
I've also heard that popularity on pirated games actually helps sales, because more people are playing the game (say in an online title), more people making YouTube videos and guides, etc.
People say, "you wouldn't download a car" and I absolutely would download a yellow Lamborghini Diablo and 3D print it (if that were possible).
At the same time, I don't like DRM but I understand why companies would want to protect their investment. I mean, I don't agree with it and wouldn't do it on my game, but I understand.
It's understandable that some people, especially in developing countries, might not have the funds to spend on $60 on entertainment, and also probably wouldn't have bought the game anyway.
When I finish my game I'm working on, I'm considering just uploading it to torrent sites myself, so people can play for free without downloading malware in the process.
I've also heard that popularity on pirated games actually helps sales, because more people are playing the game (say in an online title), more people making YouTube videos and guides, etc.
People say, "you wouldn't download a car" and I absolutely would download a yellow Lamborghini Diablo and 3D print it (if that were possible).
At the same time, I don't like DRM but I understand why companies would want to protect their investment. I mean, I don't agree with it and wouldn't do it on my game, but I understand.
I get the "they weren't going to buy it anyway" argument. I spent many years living in that exact situation.
But as a potential member of your audience I'll say this.
Release a DEMO! We used to get demo and shareware versions back in the day and it was wonderful. Today 90% Of games are broken buggy piles of shit that may or may not run on your machine. I pirate a lot of games, then decide if I want to buy it because I want a demo, and they just don't do it anymore. So I'll go DL the whole game and see if I like it instead of the piece supplied by the dev/publisher.
I'd put cash on the table that if a company releases a demo of a game, they will see less piracy. Now if the game is shit they may not see more sales, but they will see less piracy.
Factum
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2014
- Messages
- 2,455
Egoistic, selfentilted wankers will always justify their illegal actions with enititled bullshite...don't waste time on pirates, what has been assertained without reason cannot be dismissed by reason
I honestly don't care if people pirate. What gets me is all these people are fine buying $5 keys off grey sites like cdkeys and feel good about it. Honestly you might as well pirate cause the developers ain't get shit if anything from it. Even reselling keys from hw purchases is the same. People just balk at paying full price for something. I have no issue paying $60 for a good game day one and wouldn't haste one sec for developers I know are good for it. While companies like Bethesda and SE will not get a penny from me atm.
Last edited:
CDKeys to my knowledge is legit. Unofficial greysite, but legit. G2A and Kinguin however are money laundering schemes benefitting from stolen credit cards etc... and developers really do not see a dime, often they even lose money when they have to deal with credit card companies want their money back.
sfsuphysics
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2007
- Messages
- 15,994
I wonder if demos were more abundant back in the day because 1) games were physically a lot small, hence more less complicated from a programming stand point such that you could simply say "here's level 1" and call it a day and 2) the internet was still kind of in it's infancy and most games were still bought in stores, so a demo was basically what lured you into stores with a specific game in mind.
Bottom line is they do have demos, unfortunately demos have turned into "review copies" and review copies are sent to "people of influence" so congrats we get to watch someone play a game and hope we like what we see rather than actually playing it.
It might be legit but developers are still losing out from it. Selling cheap keys meant for poor country to develope countries hurts the developers also. Who is to say the keys you get from cdkeys hasn't been bought with a stolen CC.
T4rd
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2009
- Messages
- 20,112
I'm just curious, but how can you tell the difference between those stores and how they're getting their keys?
You can tell because they've never been called out for doing so and their keys haven't been caught in mass bannings due to stolen CC. They're also not a key seller marketplace. They source keys themselves and sell them themselves, they don't have individual users selling keys.
Price and the regions for keys.
Derangel answered, but I also add that their business model is entirely different. Kinguin/G2A do not sell the keys themselves, it is all 3rd party with them being a middleman. Regarding CDKey, developers definetly do not like what they are doing but it is entirely legal. Personally I do not see a problem with this morally either, it is simply a product of globalisation. Not entirely different matter from when southern Finnish travel to Estonia all the time to buy Finnish brands of alcohol for less than half the price compared to what they cost here, in the very country they were made in. We buy where we can get it cheapest, either Estonia or Latvia.
I'm on both sides of this equation: I work for a publisher of intellectual property so I'm anti-pirate; I am also very anti-DRM as it hurts the legitimate user more than it does a pirate (who is simply going to eventually get the content regardless of how many gates you put around it).
I've been asked many times to pursue DRM strategies but I've always rejected it by stating that the content is going to be pirated anyway; do you just accept that piracy will exist or do you want to pay for gates and have the content stolen anyway? Once put in those terms the DRM plans are usually dropped (at least temporarily)...
I've been asked many times to pursue DRM strategies but I've always rejected it by stating that the content is going to be pirated anyway; do you just accept that piracy will exist or do you want to pay for gates and have the content stolen anyway? Once put in those terms the DRM plans are usually dropped (at least temporarily)...
You work for sensible people it looks. Not a major cooperation that is ran by clueless stock holders.
Probably depends on whether developers actually fully impliment it or just do enough to check the box and make the bosses happy.
I'm pro piracy(tm), that is protecting the public interest, because this forum is uninformed as to the politics of IP law, IP law was specifically instituted to preserve human culture in libraries, it was never meant to give a monopoly on human culture to businessmen and big companies like EA.
It'd be wise if you actually understood the original purpose of copyright was temporarily granted public monopoly, aka it's monopoly rights, of which WE the public are the ultimate owners. They were supposed to be temporary to grant time for creative people and businesses to gain renumeration but companies and big business has been rubber stamping infinite extensions for the last 200 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyr...xtension_of_U.S._copyright_term_over_time.svg
So we technically OWN all software company produces, like culture and games it's that corporations and the rich control our education and take advantage of our lazyness and gullibility, once you start looking at the facts, the facts on the ground say everyone is just being ignorant and not paying attention to the ceo's robbing us bloody blind of our right to own our own culture and the incredible waste and destruction our societies produce.
So it'd be wise of everyone on the forum actually got educated on these issues because most of you are clueless, you don't have to put up with bad laws or one sided IP laws that deny us ownership of software, drm is just more bs extension of IP for private businesses and screwing over the public.
No one is going to chance how electron charges work in atoms, it's insane to be against "piracy", piracy is just another word for "file copying" if I copied quake 3 a million times on my hard drive, am I a pirate? It's bullshit. The reality is software is like air, it's not a good or a service, it's a sequence of electric charges inside a machine.
So you can't technically steal binary numbers, which is what all software is, electric charges representing mathematical structures. Until everyone starts remembering that the laws of physics trumps invented property laws, asburd laws will continue.
Our governments have been rubber stamping laws by bought and paid for lobbyists for a long time, it's time to wake up and smell the fact that we don't live in a society where rule of law exists for the public and big business owns our congress critters and parlamentarians. I'd advise everyone who's actually interested in the topic to check out works by lawrence lessig.
https://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim?language=en
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=lawrence...x=lawrence+lessig,aps,208&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_15
It'd be wise if you actually understood the original purpose of copyright was temporarily granted public monopoly, aka it's monopoly rights, of which WE the public are the ultimate owners. They were supposed to be temporary to grant time for creative people and businesses to gain renumeration but companies and big business has been rubber stamping infinite extensions for the last 200 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyr...xtension_of_U.S._copyright_term_over_time.svg
So we technically OWN all software company produces, like culture and games it's that corporations and the rich control our education and take advantage of our lazyness and gullibility, once you start looking at the facts, the facts on the ground say everyone is just being ignorant and not paying attention to the ceo's robbing us bloody blind of our right to own our own culture and the incredible waste and destruction our societies produce.
So it'd be wise of everyone on the forum actually got educated on these issues because most of you are clueless, you don't have to put up with bad laws or one sided IP laws that deny us ownership of software, drm is just more bs extension of IP for private businesses and screwing over the public.
No one is going to chance how electron charges work in atoms, it's insane to be against "piracy", piracy is just another word for "file copying" if I copied quake 3 a million times on my hard drive, am I a pirate? It's bullshit. The reality is software is like air, it's not a good or a service, it's a sequence of electric charges inside a machine.
So you can't technically steal binary numbers, which is what all software is, electric charges representing mathematical structures. Until everyone starts remembering that the laws of physics trumps invented property laws, asburd laws will continue.
Our governments have been rubber stamping laws by bought and paid for lobbyists for a long time, it's time to wake up and smell the fact that we don't live in a society where rule of law exists for the public and big business owns our congress critters and parlamentarians. I'd advise everyone who's actually interested in the topic to check out works by lawrence lessig.
https://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim?language=en
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=lawrence...x=lawrence+lessig,aps,208&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_15
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
You should start a religion with the level you'll to try and twist things into your way of thinking.
Laws or not, just more excuses to justify getting the benefit of something without paying for it.
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
There are serious issues with current copyright (and, by extension, IP) laws but most of this is utter nonsense.
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
You're spinning this as hard as Disney's lawyers do just in the opposite direction. The original point of copyright was to make sure artists are able to profit from their work especially in regard to easily copied works. This is to encourage the creation of creative works but time limits were also put in place and many exceptions are specifically written into the rules to balance the artists rights against that of the consumer as well as public good(for instance the exceptions for educational use).
The perversion of copyright law comes from media companies successful efforts to extend copyright periods way beyond what is reasonable and sidestep many fair use provisions.
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
For the "pro" IP crowd, when's the last time anything has gone public domain? The whole deal was cultural works like games would become public domain if valve and EA can just buy extensions from your local congress critter everytime IP law review comes up like they have for 200 years. The opposite is true, the evidence says the pro IP crowd are corporate yes men.
If IP law was extended every time for 200 years, that's a good argument that the pro IP crowd on this forum is ignorant, irrational and oblivious. The corporations got their way everytime, we call this "reading between the lines". Your own personal morality has nothing to do with the fact corporations have bribed their way out of the contract.
If "limited times" in the constitution can be infinitely extended by paying your local congress critter, then what is the point of giving companies a public monopoly? So no, it's not bullshit most people just proved they are too stupid to understand the law. Because IP is a public monopoly, that means we own the games, and hence you can't pirate what you already own. Since we know corporations have renegged on their end of the bargain the public has every right to "pirate" to preserve software like games.
"[the United States Congress shall have power] To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
Note the "securing for limited times" the founders were hostile to permanent monopolies, which modern IP law is, an endlessly extended monopoly.
"when's the last time anything has gone public domain? "
January first, when anything made in 1924 or earlier lost copyright. (There's some more-specific newer things, like "stuff published before 1977 that didn't have an explicit copyright notice."
January first, when anything made in 1924 or earlier lost copyright. (There's some more-specific newer things, like "stuff published before 1977 that didn't have an explicit copyright notice."
GoldenTiger
Fully [H]
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2004
- Messages
- 29,669
Man, that's one heck of a stretch to justify your thieving. If you don't like the law, get it changed. Don't break it to justify your illegal actions and piracy.
Things go public domain every damn year. That is an incredibly stupid question.
IP laws being messy and needing updates still does not justify piracy.
Auer
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2018
- Messages
- 1,972
I don't know why they cant just say that they don't like to pay for anything and don't mind stealing.
But that of course would be honest...
The gymnastics must have taken loads of work. See you in Japan in 2021.
OutOfPhase
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- May 11, 2005
- Messages
- 6,579
I've never heard being pro-piracy as "protecting the public interest" before. That's... interesting.
I suppose since I both feed my kids based upon IP I make and also enjoy the IP of others (with cost) - I hope there are fewer of these champions in the world?
I suppose since I both feed my kids based upon IP I make and also enjoy the IP of others (with cost) - I hope there are fewer of these champions in the world?
dgz
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2010
- Messages
- 5,838
Indeed. If you're allowed to physically go across the border and buy stuff cheaper, why can't you do it on the Internet. Just like companies can shop around the world looking for better quality/price of labour, we can absolutely do the same for their goods. Some people think globalization should only works one way: they exploit someone else. Ha...
It's simple economics, son. I don't understand it at all, but, God I love it.
Last time I said something along these lines on this forum, my post got removed. For the record, I only buy games on Steam and GOG. Personally, I don't condone piracy but I am not strongly opposed to it either. I think pirating software is stupid just for the major security implications alone.