Doom 3 shader mod for ++ performance

[rancor]

I would lol.

And i doubt over half his customers are ATI users. nVidia has a slightly higher market share then ATI, although they are about tied right now i believe. DOOM 3 is also an nVidia branded and endorsed game so i can safely say more nVidia users are running it then ATI users. Especially after the DOOM 3 benchmarks.

PLUS, nVidia and ATI are just a small portion of the GPU market. They both have around like 23% or so market share. Intel owns the majority of the graphics market and VIA has a small chunk as well.

Will DOOM 3 even run on an Intel integrated graphics setup? lol

He's not exactly screwing anyone over by not adding it in ither.

Its just like the SM 3.0/2.0b path in Far Cry. They give extra performance but they aren't really needed.

And it looks like this HACK in D3 for the R300/R400/NV30 cores lowers the IQ so that will be a major reason not to implement it.

LOL I hear ya, I would be pretty pissed is my work was leaked before it was fully ready too

 

[SuperRob]

And it looks like this HACK in D3 for the R300/R400/NV30 cores lowers the IQ so that will be a major reason not to implement it.

It doesn't lower the image quality. It simply changes it. The only perceptible difference, and even that depends on where you look, is that it's slightly darker. Is that a reduction in image quality? That depends on your definition. I don't think "darker" is a comment on image quality at all. Otherwise, shouldn't the Brightness and Gamma settings come with warnings that they will lower your image quality? It's not lower or higher, or better or worse. It's, for lack of a better word ... different.

Seriously, somewhere along the way, the internet community decided that as far as games and graphics performance were concerned, that anything that deviates from "default" settings were somehow against some unwritten rule. While I agree that the hardware companies should not be arbitrarily changing your settings even when you choose not to, I fail to see anything wrong with a user applied hack that gives better performance at a negligible difference in image quality.

 

[rancor]

It doesn't lower the image quality. It simply changes it. The only perceptible difference, and even that depends on where you look, is that it's slightly darker. Is that a reduction in image quality? That depends on your definition. I don't think "darker" is a comment on image quality at all. Otherwise, shouldn't the Brightness and Gamma settings come with warnings that they will lower your image quality? It's not lower or higher, or better or worse. It's, for lack of a better word ... different.

Seriously, somewhere along the way, the internet community decided that as far as games and graphics performance were concerned, that anything that deviates from "default" settings were somehow against some unwritten rule. While I agree that the hardware companies should not be arbitrarily changing your settings even when you choose not to, I fail to see anything wrong with a user applied hack that gives better performance at a negligible difference in image quality.

Well thats a very touchy feely subject when it comes to engine programmers. THEY DON"T LIKE ANYONE MESSING WITH THIER WORK.

 

[’m‚³‚ñ]

If they could handle the D3 benchmark thread then this a walk in the park.

That is a good point...

 

[burningrave101]

But can he really blame us for wanting to get some more performance out of the game when the degreadation is virutally unoticable during gameplay?

I was looking through that thread on Beyond3D and it looked like not everyone was getting these huge performance boosts. It looked like alot were getting like 2-5 fps. I saw several people with X800XT PE's and they only got a few FPS.

Something that only gives a few fps is hardly worth implementing for lower IQ.

People with X800's dont need this tweak to get playable FPS. Its just an excuse for higher benchmark performance lol.

 

[SuperRob]

Well thats a very touchy feely subject when it comes to engine programmers. THEY DON"T LIKE ANYONE MESSING WITH THIER WORK.

Yeah, that's the whole problem with art. It's very subjective. I don't think it's a matter of not liking people messing with their work, but very much an issue of the art of having designed it a specific way to begin with.

 

[BoogerBomb]

Actually I was talking about him being possibly upset about it. I'm with everyone else that this won't make it into a patch because it would hurt most other D3 players if he didn't create a separate path.

 

[avatar_of_might]

I was looking through that thread on Beyond3D and it looked like not everyone was getting these huge performance boosts. It looked like alot were getting like 2-5 fps. I saw several people with X800XT PE's and they only got a few FPS.

Something that only gives a few fps is hardly worth implementing for lower IQ.

i agree and im a current Ati owner. at a friends place and he tried it with his 9600xt and now d3 is running slower and iq is crap compared to before. im content with my current performance.

 

[Met-AL]

I was looking through that thread on Beyond3D and it looked like not everyone was getting these huge performance boosts. It looked like alot were getting like 2-5 fps. I saw several people with X800XT PE's and they only got a few FPS.

That's probably because Doom3 requires more than just a fast video card. You can have X800PE or a 6800U on a P2.5 and no matter what you do for the video rendering, it isn't gonna go much faster since the CPU is the botteneck.

 

[SuperRob]

I was looking through that thread on Beyond3D and it looked like not everyone was getting these huge performance boosts. It looked like alot were getting like 2-5 fps. I saw several people with X800XT PE's and they only got a few FPS.

Something that only gives a few fps is hardly worth implementing for lower IQ.

People with X800's dont need this tweak to get playable FPS. Its just an excuse for higher benchmark performance lol.

Not everyone has optimized machines. X800s are incredibly CPU limited, and a lower end CPU could be why they are getting slammer performance increases.

Again, I don't grant that this lowers image quality at all. According to the available evidence, it certainly changes it, however. As for whether that change is worth the difference in image quality, shouldn't that be up to the individual user to decide?

 

[bboynitrous]

I got a 5FPS boost, no image quality decrease that I noticed. Not too bad. Even with my overclocked X800 (520/530) I have no artifacts at all.

 

[rancor]

Not everyone has optimized machines. X800s are incredibly CPU limited, and a lower end CPU could be why they are getting slammer performance increases.

Again, I don't grant that this lowers image quality at all. According to the available evidence, it certainly changes it, however. As for whether that change is worth the difference in image quality, shouldn't that be up to the individual user to decide?

Well I think the tests they are doing are fly bys right? That shouldn't be cpu limited. Really only gets to cpu limited during heavy physics and ai usage.

 

[Met-AL]

I got a 5FPS boost, no image quality decrease that I noticed. Not too bad. Even with my overclocked X800 (520/530) I have no artifacts at all.

I bet if you had a faster CPU/Memory subsystem you would have reaped more benefits.

 

[Wascrash]

Who cares. Just becouse the nvidia new hardware runs doom3 faster doesnt mean that new x800 ati hardware is slow. Its very playable. I play doom3 with an old fx5900 . I got 38 fps on the timedemo at 1024x768 on high Quality. Thats how i play the game and it runs sweet. I know the x800 pro can run alot better and the 6800 even faster. Theres also games that the x800 wins in speed over the 6800. Doesnt make it better. People who say well i have a 6800gt and finished doom3 already and didnt have to wait for a patch. Get a clue. The x800 people play it fine also and dont have to wait. To many are acting like the game is almost unplayable with an ati card. It plays sweet even on a 128 md 9600 at high quality. The 6800 just play the game faster. Im skipping both companies cards this cycle as i think my fx5900 has more steam in it. I'll just do a cpu upgrade.

 

[Met-AL]

Well I think the tests they are doing are fly bys right? That shouldn't be cpu limited. Really only gets to cpu limited during heavy physics and ai usage.

I benched D3 with the timedemo before and after my CPU upgrade and I increased my FPS by 22FPS.

Settings were Medium Quality and 800x600. Going up to 1024, my card was becoming the bottleneck.

Old CPU: XP Paly 2000+ stock at 1.67 on 266FSB
New CPU : Mobile XP Barton 2600+ at 2.6Ghz

So when some people say they are only getting 5fps and some are saying more of an increase, they should look at other things like what they are running the card on. Slow PC with fast video card still equals slow FPS no matter what you do.

 

[CrimandEvil]

Am I the only one getting a kick out of all of these...ATI / NV "supporters" going at it?
First it was about others calling people that had expressed a different opinion "Fan-boys" lol
For some time the talk was all about OEMs, lol
Then is was about whether or not this is a hack, lol (btw it is)
Now it's about whether or not Programmers should be pissed when idiots muck with their code, (what happens when you screw up? lol)
Hell you have ATI users always jumping to the conclusion that your "flaming" ATI so they always say "Who cares if nvidia's new hardware runs doom3 faster doesnt mean that ATI's is slow." (Get a clue no one has said that, lol)

All of this and just alittle people have posted their results with the mod, most seem to be defending it even when there's alot of IQ lose going on (pot calling the kettle black? ).

Screw Sports, I'm watching one of the most fun sports ever!

"The nvidiot vs. fanatic thing is kinda like special olympics boxing, personally I kinda like watching a couple retarded kids beating the crap outta each other but maybe thats just me"

 

[CrimandEvil]

I benched D3 with the timedemo before and after my CPU upgrade and I increased my FPS by 22FPS.

It's already been said that the timedemo doesn't stress the hardware enough, try playing the game with the FPS counter on.

 

[Wascrash]

Am I the only one getting a kick out of all of these...ATI / NV "supporters" going at it?
First it was about others calling people that had expressed a different opinion "Fan-boys" lol
For some time the talk was all about OEMs, lol
Then is was about whether or not this is a hack, lol (btw it is)
Now it's about whether or not Programmers should be pissed when idiots muck with their code, (what happens when you screw up? lol)
Hell you have ATI users always jumping to the conclusion that your "flaming" ATI so they always say "Who cares if nvidia's new hardware runs doom3 faster doesnt mean that ATI's is slow." (Get a clue no one has said that, lol)

All of this and just alittle people have posted their results with the mod, most seem to be defending it even when there's alot of IQ lose going on (pot calling the kettle black? ).

Screw Sports, I'm watching one of the most fun sports ever!

edited...... why bother. Read my post i play with an Nvidia card.. BTW look at the 2 pics of the two before and after the hack or whatever its being called and i can tell you that the normal pic is darker than the hacked one. Look. danzg7 post.
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14874&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

 

[Met-AL]

It's already been said that the timedemo doesn't stress the hardware enough, try playing the game with the FPS counter on.

Been there and done that with FRAPS. Same results. 67% increase for me by upping my CPU. Used to have FPS dip into the singe digits during firefights, now I would guess that the lowest they go is in the 30s and of course they max out at 60 during the game.

 

[SuperRob]

Reverend says that he has the OK to post a "mini-interview" with Carmack on this subject. Don't know when we'll see it, but soon, I hope.

 

[101998]

Wow, I made this thread at 4am last night and look at it now. I must be physic predicting it would turn into a flame war, Nostradomious didn’t even see it coming.

Here is a concept : When people play the game they can then decide if the iq is lower. HOLY SHIT! I must be fucking Einstein I am so damn smart. People actually using something with decide if its good or not and people who are not using it will just shut the fuck up, pffff, that would be way to rational. What was I thinking, flame on.

 

[fallguy]

If you want to ruin your IQ for 4 more frames, be my guest..

Overreact much? Its 99% the same. Being a hair less bright, doesnt mean its worse. id tries very hard to make it dark.

Why are people complaining so much? Seems to me its mostly nVidia users complaining. If someone tries it, and likes it, its their choice. I really doubt if most people play 5 mins on a machine with the tweak enabled, and then with it off, it will reduce their game expierence, or that you can even tell which is which.

If I could do this for my 6800 GT, I would gladly do it. Or at least try it, and see if I like it. Because after trying it on my daughters PC, that has a 9600 Pro in it, I cant tell the difference in the lighting. And the improvement in frames is nice. Not that she plays it...

 

[KakimotoR]

Actually all HL2 benchmarks currently are faster on GeForce6800GT and Ultra
remember ATi X800XT PE was against 6800Ultra Extreme not Ultra

Go read those benchmarks ATidiots!

ATi = optimazation trolls

um....billinear/trillinear optimization.... are unable to turn off in games and benchmarks

Face it!

And FarCry , NVIDIA actually won. see how many wons there are compare to ATi.

SM3.0 rocks and Ultra Shadow Technology II rocks with NVIDIA.

While current ATi only able to get to SM2.0b. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO low tech crap IQ bad drivers, but hey one thing good about them! Optimization GOD.

 

[GeniusInABottle]

Actually all HL2 benchmarks currently are faster on GeForce6800GT and Ultra
remember ATi X800XT PE was against 6800Ultra Extreme not Ultra

Go read those benchmarks ATidiots!

ATi = optimazation trolls

um....billinear/trillinear optimization.... are unable to turn off in games and benchmarks

Face it!

Can we get some mods in here or what?

 

[fallguy]

Go read those benchmarks ATidiots!

Post reported. We do not need people like you with your name calling. Its against the rules for a reason, and you've been warned before. It does ZERO good, other than making yourself feel better.

 

[rancor]

calm down guys, the flame war stopped along time back no need to rekindle it.

 

[BoogerBomb]

I think some posters need to read the rules regarding name calling and what is and isnt allowed. I think the mods should go through and delte all posts which violate the rules.

 

[theelviscerator]

Go to the lake for the weekend and come back its the same old thing.....

why bother with this stuff anyway...the X800s are plenty fast enough..

besides once you've beaten d3 and have moved on whats the diff....

I been playing deathmatch online and have no trouble dominating the games I have found......

a 6800 doesnt turn your mediocre system into a giant slayer........merely shows you what you knew all along..

you are still cpu limited....

 

[KakimotoR]

I think some posters need to read the rules regarding name calling and what is and isnt allowed. I think the mods should go through and delte all posts which violate the rules.

in this thread I have seen ppl calling us nvidiot.
I can't take it anymore so I finally jump out

I was only out for like 3 hours, and when I come back it got 11 more pages with all flames. and the ATi user actually started then I couldn't control myself so....

 

[avatar_of_might]

in this thread I have seen ppl calling us nvidiot.
I can't take it anymore so I finally jump out

just because they do it doesnt give you the right to
you cant lose either way, x800 or 6800, both are great lines of cards

 

[BoogerBomb]

in this thread I have seen ppl calling us nvidiot.
I can't take it anymore so I finally jump out

I was only out for like 3 hours, and when I come back it got 11 more pages with all flames. and the ATi user actually started then I couldn't control myself so....

Wasnt pointing you out directly which is why I said posters and delete ALL posts violating the rules.

 

[rancor]

Wasnt pointing you out directly which is why I said posters and delete ALL posts violating the rules.

That would be alot of posts! lol

 

[BoogerBomb]

That would be alot of posts! lol

Lots less reading would be reuqired for those just jumping in....poor bastards.

 

[KakimotoR]

I wanna be the first one to say sorry if I flamed.

SORRY SORRY SORRY SORRY SORRY

NVIDIA AND ATI BOTH ROCKS

I LOVE THEM

I LOVE U PEOPLE

WORLD PIECE

 

[rancor]

lol true

 

[tranCendenZ]

Why are people complaining so much?

Humus is an ATI employee and has the methods and means to contact John Carmack in private, and address any shader concerns he had with him through those channels. There was no need for him to bust open and crticize his code on a public forum without even talking to him first when Humus works for ATI and has the ability to contact him in private.

Kind of unprofessional thats all, there was no need for all this public hoopla over it and its not very respectful towards carmack.

 

[avatar_of_might]

Lots less reading would be reuqired for those just jumping in....poor bastards.

yeah i starting reading it and i gave up halfway through and jumped to the last page

 

[rancor]

Humus is an ATI employee and has the methods and means to contact John Carmack in private, and address any shader concerns he had with him through those channels. There was no need for him to bust open and crticize his code on a public forum without even talking to him first when Humus works for ATI and has the ability to contact him in private.

Kind of shady thats all, there was no need for all this public hoopla over it.

Yep, that was the orginially catalyst for this huge thread, but somewhere it became an ATi vs nV thing.

 

[KakimotoR]

it doesn't matter if the Humus trick works or not for u.

It all depends on who want to use them.

They have their rights to use them bcoz they choose to and there is nothing wrong with it.

If they are happy with the trick why can't they use it? It's all up to users. Right?

 

[BoogerBomb]

Humus is an ATI employee and has the methods and means to contact John Carmack in private, and address any shader concerns he had with him through those channels. There was no need for him to bust open and crticize his code on a public forum without even talking to him first when Humus works for ATI and has the ability to contact him in private.

Humus never did this as an ATI employee and he has stated as such. Where did he say that ATI says do this for better performance? That is like saying that everything you do in your private life is a direct reflection upon the company you work for. He has added that his opinions and actions and such are his and not ATI's. Can the guy not help out the community as a gamer?