Direct X 11.1 - Windows 8 only...

Microsoft pulling another Vista here, I can see, they claimed they couldn't do DX10 on XP which is bullshit, yet another ploy to get users upgrade to Windows 8.

But this is no big loss really, because most games are still on DX9 and there are hardly any games that use DX11 let alone DX10.
 
John Vuong said:
Microsoft pulling another Vista here, I can see, they claimed they couldn't do DX10 on XP which is bullshit, yet another ploy to get users upgrade to Windows 8.

But this is no big loss really, because most games are still on DX9 and there are hardly any games that use DX11 let alone DX10.
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There isn't a whole lot on the horizon that supports DirectX 9. It's why I finally made the jump from XP...
 
DeathPrincess said:
Not when you factor in lack of any outstanding features and the extra bugs and hassle it contains. :p
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Yeah there's some stuff that just doesn't work right with Windows 8 right now. Even if you use compatibility mode.

Even so, SOMEONE has to be the early adopter.
 
evilsofa said:
Ugh. Jargon shock. I do not understand a single one of those features. Not even a little bit.
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You don't need to worry about it. D3D11.1 is a "give developers extra tools to achieve the same end-result and make things a little faster" release.
 
jonneymendoza said:
what bugs? what hassle?

infact, installling win 8 was less hassle then win 7
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There are bugs and the hassle is from the bugs, but not a huge reason to avoid 8 unless it affects something you use.

It seems most people that dont like 8 just want their regular desktop back.

As far as the 11.1 being windows 8 only, not a big deal really, even for those that hate it. Just install one of the 3rd party apps, and it helps. Even though its BS having to go through the process of changing it, instead of an install option.
 
Windows 7 still has bugs too. i think people moan too much just for the sake of it. win 8 works fine. does its job well and is cheaper to get then many pc games
 
If it becomes a needed thing, I will upgrade to Win8 and get the stardock win7 start menu so I do not have to deal with the stupid front end.
 
wonderfield said:
You don't need to worry about it. D3D11.1 is a "give developers extra tools to achieve the same end-result and make things a little faster" release.
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then imagine the xbox720 release, when they announce that it will run on dx11.1 only, and multiplatform devs start migrating to the windows app store. scared yet?
 
jonneymendoza said:
what bugs? what hassle?

infact, installling win 8 was less hassle then win 7
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The bugs as in the launch bugs and potential launch bugs, especially if you are using slightly older or unique equipment. Plus the load of bugs every OS has. There isn't a guarantee everything will work straight away as it should.

Installing Windows 8 is less hassle than leaving Windows 7 already installed? it must be magical... :p

Like I siad the minor features and barely anything included makes it pointless for 99.9% to "upgrade".
 
DeathPrincess said:
The bugs as in the launch bugs and potential launch bugs, especially if you are using slightly older or unique equipment. Plus the load of bugs every OS has. There isn't a guarantee everything will work straight away as it should.

Installing Windows 8 is less hassle than leaving Windows 7 already installed? it must be magical... :p

Like I siad the minor features and barely anything included makes it pointless for 99.9% to "upgrade".
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Have u tried it?

i bet u have not ;)
 
DeathPrincess said:
The bugs as in the launch bugs and potential launch bugs, especially if you are using slightly older or unique equipment. Plus the load of bugs every OS has. There isn't a guarantee everything will work straight away as it should.

Installing Windows 8 is less hassle than leaving Windows 7 already installed? it must be magical... :p

Like I siad the minor features and barely anything included makes it pointless for 99.9% to "upgrade".
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If it was like win 7, but with the upgrades, I would of already bought and installed it. The price is pretty dam cheap, but I am going to see if MS changes it into an option. Yeah, it isnt a huge improvement, but some is better then none. It will be a while before we need 11.1 and not just want, so no hurry.
 
mas said:
then imagine the xbox720 release, when they announce that it will run on dx11.1 only, and multiplatform devs start migrating to the windows app store. scared yet?
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Your reply has no relevance to anything I said.
 
mas said:
then imagine the xbox720 release, when they announce that it will run on dx11.1 only, and multiplatform devs start migrating to the windows app store. scared yet?
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Only if someone is stupid enough to believe that should they be scared.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Have u tried it?

i bet u have not ;)
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Tell you what. However much you bet I haven't, send to my paypal account? :p

Hagrid said:
If it was like win 7, but with the upgrades, I would of already bought and installed it. The price is pretty dam cheap, but I am going to see if MS changes it into an option. Yeah, it isnt a huge improvement, but some is better then none. It will be a while before we need 11.1 and not just want, so no hurry.
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I probably would have too (though none of the improvements are exactly useful as I either already had them in some other form (ISO loaders/drive stuff/Hyper-v etc.) or just have no real use for them (touch screen junk, phone applications). The "performance" upgrades are debatable, and there seems to be issues with sound (and not sure if ASIO works on it yet). As there isn't any compelling reason, and a few detractors, unless I was paid to, there's no reason to. It's not like 7 is "outdated" or 8 is a real step forward.

They've mixed the minor stuff with a load of junk no one asked for because it was someones "vision". The more buy it the more people are telling them that this kind of junk update is fine. :D
 
DeathPrincess said:
Tell you what. However much you bet I haven't, send to my paypal account? :p



I probably would have too (though none of the improvements are exactly useful as I either already had them in some other form (ISO loaders/drive stuff/Hyper-v etc.) or just have no real use for them (touch screen junk, phone applications). The "performance" upgrades are debatable, and there seems to be issues with sound (and not sure if ASIO works on it yet). As there isn't any compelling reason, and a few detractors, unless I was paid to, there's no reason to. It's not like 7 is "outdated" or 8 is a real step forward.

They've mixed the minor stuff with a load of junk no one asked for because it was someones "vision". The more buy it the more people are telling them that this kind of junk update is fine. :D
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I agree that 7 is still great which is why I havnt considered putting it on any system except a VM to play with and check stuff out.
 
still running Vista as it has been rock solid since day one. windows 8 is pretty much windows 7 + Metro
 
Wtf_is_this_shit.jpg

Really MS? Really!?
 
Dear Microsoft, really pulling another Vista already? Windows 8 was already in a nosedive.
 
piscian18 said:
Dear Microsoft, really pulling another Vista already? Windows 8 was already in a nosedive.
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I think it will grow alot more since the 3rd party apps came out to customize it. The price is pretty sweet too.
And no, I dont run win 8.
 
XP lasted a good 6 years for me maybe it was 8.

I've had Win7 for a little over 2 years. lol they want us to update but there is no games or anything that support it. DOn't care.
 
wonderfield said:
Your reply has no relevance to anything I said.
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irrelevant how? you deny this api could be used as leverage, I disagree.

RamonGTP said:
Only if someone is stupid enough to believe that should they be scared.
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not saying you should be afraid, it would just be naive to rule out that ms wouldn't at least make some attempt to use this to their advantage.
 
mas said:
irrelevant how? you deny this api could be used as leverage, I disagree.



not saying you should be afraid, it would just be naive to rule out that ms wouldn't at least make some attempt to use this to their advantage.
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MS isn't GOD, You may see something like this with a Halo port, but not much else. It's naive to think game developers/publishers of the world are going to alienate their customer base to appease Microsoft. This isn't the first new OS MS has released. Windows XP added DX9 while Windows 2000 only had windows 8. Vista and 7 had dx10/11 while XP did not. There has NEVER been a quick and large exodus from one DX revision to the next, This isn't going to be any different.
 
RamonGTP said:
MS isn't GOD, You may see something like this with a Halo port, but not much else. It's naive to think game developers/publishers of the world are going to alienate their customer base to appease Microsoft. This isn't the first new OS MS has released. Windows XP added DX9 while Windows 2000 only had windows 8. Vista and 7 had dx10/11 while XP did not. There has NEVER been a quick and large exodus from one DX revision to the next, This isn't going to be any different.
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get a grip, who said anything about an exodus? it's a pain in the ass when they arbitrarily limit games to os versions, and they've never had problems getting decent publishers on board with that. thank goodness it's not industry wide, since then it would be serious?
 
mas said:
get a grip, who said anything about an exodus? it's a pain in the ass when they arbitrarily limit games to os versions, and they've never had problems getting decent publishers on board with that. thank goodness it's not industry wide, since then it would be serious?
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You'll just have to make friends with the fact that not everyone here is going to agree with you. Including myself. Your scenario is even less likely than it's ever been with previous OS releases since DX 11.1 is a very minor revision. hence the .1 denomination. Sure, eventually support for older OS will drop, including 7 because eventually we'll move beyond DX 11.x and eventually games will use them. Key word being eventually. I'll bet during the life cycle of next gen consoles, only a handful of games will drop support for Windows 7. I won't worry about that becasue i'll be on Windows 9.
 
Ahh, limiting latest DirectX to latest Windows only, classic Microsoft. :D Still not enough reason for me to upgrade from Windows 7/Vista to Windows 8. Way too expensive for only having some useful improvements and for being worse for desktop use on some parts.

Sort of shame though. Windows seemed to be going into such great direction with Windows 7. Instantly upgraded my desktop and laptop to it once it was released.
 
Dan_D said:
The core OS may be great. I'm sure it's fine. But the interface isn't really ideal for a desktop OS. That is what could make it bad. I have little interest in it because I don't agree with the direction. Will I get it? At some point I'm certain I will.
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The only thing I really see as a significant step in the wrong direction is metro start screen, honestly I only spend a total of about 10 seconds per day in the start menu so I personally don't really feel like the OS is terribly different, luckily the whole app store and metro direction can just be completely ignored.

Actually I don't believe anyone outside of Microsoft has enough information on this to say. We know Microsoft said that it wouldn't work but that doesn't mean they tried hard to make it happen.
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The scope is far bigger than most people realize, to get DirectX 10 to work on XP you'd need to port the driver model changes to the OS, it's optimization and changes in the driver model that enable optimizations and additional features at the API level.

That means completely replacing the driver model, which means new drivers for all your devices on XP, vendors providing 2 sets of drivers for old and new driver models in XP and the confusion to users of which to use. Providing upgrade paths that allow seamless transitions from one model to another. It also means updating all parts of the OS that interact with the driver model.

Basically you're talking about rewriting large parts of the OS which is why a lot of these people starting projects to bring DX10+ to XP all failed miserably.

Lets be clear, it is possible, it's just such a monumental task that it's not worth bothering with, these are huge sweeping changes to the OS and when that happens you release a new version of your OS, which is what they did, it was called Vista.

Driver model changes have little to do with DirectX. If the driver is written right and the hardware supports it all you need is DirectX support on the OS side. That's the area where it was broken. Could Microsoft have made DirectX 10 work on Windows XP? Who knows? But not having DirectX 10 support was about the only compelling thing about Windows Vista from a gaming standpoint.
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Er what? DirectX is a multimedia API that deals with all interaction between software and multimedia hardware.

[Software] <--> [DirectX] <--> [Drivers] <--> [Hardware]

What features DirectX can provide, what optimizations are possible are all built on top the driver model, which defines how the OS can communicate with the hardware.

My point is that while Windows XP to Vista's transition may have been needed for DirectX 10 support, I doubt the same is true of Windows 8.
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We know for sure that the driver model was revised, that DX11.1 requires that and that's what is breaking backwards compatibility.

I think if there's any kind of argument to be made here that I'd agree with, it would probably be questioning if the changes are significant to warrant breaking backwards compatibility, do the benefits outweight the cons? Ultimately gamers will make that decision, if DX11.1 brings nothing significant to the gaming arena then it will go ignored and the lack of support in Win7 and prior OSs wont really matter.

Microsoft is most likely forcing the issue because there isn't a compelling reason to adopt a version of Windows which is at it's core the same as the last one with an interface few people want on the desktop. I'm all for change so long as the change is positive. If Windows 8 didn't have such a crappy interface I'd have been running it since the beta's and I'd have it on virtually all my machines by now.
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That is no doubt a benefit for Microsoft, who wouldn't want to promote their new product if they could? But I highly doubt that it was the driving reason for this change, I doubt they engineered this situation deliberately to achieve that goal.

I have certainly not seen any evidence of this, if someone who is an expert has looked into the driver model and API and pointed out obvious cases where DX11.1 dependency has been artificially created then obviously I'd agree with you, but at the moment its more or less just conspiracy talk.
 
Dan_D said:
The core OS may be great. I'm sure it's fine. But the interface isn't really ideal for a desktop OS. That is what could make it bad. I have little interest in it because I don't agree with the direction. Will I get it? At some point I'm certain I will.
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Are u forced to use the metro UI? if you dont like it use normal desktop mode. are you scared of change? did u freak out when windows first introduced the desktop we see today?


Dan_D said:
T
My point is that while Windows XP to Vista's transition may have been needed for DirectX 10 support, I doubt the same is true of Windows 8. Microsoft is most likely forcing the issue because there isn't a compelling reason to adopt a version of Windows which is at it's core the same as the last one with an interface few people want on the desktop. I'm all for change so long as the change is positive. If Windows 8 didn't have such a crappy interface I'd have been running it since the beta's and I'd have it on virtually all my machines by now.
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Windows vista and 7 are the same, more of the same then the transition between 7 and 8. 7 is just a tweaked up version of 8 and you would be hard pressed to notice the difference between the two whilst on 8 you can see large differences in the UI and the overal speed and response of the OS.
 
Rd. Vortex said:
Ahh, limiting latest DirectX to latest Windows only, classic Microsoft. :D Still not enough reason for me to upgrade from Windows 7/Vista to Windows 8. Way too expensive for only having some useful improvements and for being worse for desktop use on some parts.

Sort of shame though. Windows seemed to be going into such great direction with Windows 7. Instantly upgraded my desktop and laptop to it once it was released.
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£15 is too expensive? do u play your pc games legitametly or are they "too expensive?"
 
jonneymendoza said:
Are u forced to use the metro UI? if you dont like it use normal desktop mode. are you scared of change? did u freak out when windows first introduced the desktop we see today?



Windows vista and 7 are the same, more of the same then the transition between 7 and 8. 7 is just a tweaked up version of 8 and you would be hard pressed to notice the difference between the two whilst on 8 you can see large differences in the UI and the overal speed and response of the OS.
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If there is 3rd party software to change win 8 to behave, look, etc like win 7, then no it isnt just a tweaked version. (upgraded and downgraded at the same time)
People are not saying they dont like change its that the interface sucks for them, and they would just like the actual windows interface that even linux shares.(and works)
 
jonneymendoza said:
Are u forced to use the metro UI? if you dont like it use normal desktop mode. are you scared of change? did u freak out when windows first introduced the desktop we see today?



Windows vista and 7 are the same, more of the same then the transition between 7 and 8. 7 is just a tweaked up version of 8 and you would be hard pressed to notice the difference between the two whilst on 8 you can see large differences in the UI and the overal speed and response of the OS.
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Actually yeah you are forced to use Metro. Did we freak out when DOS transitioned to Windows? Of course we did! But we went from a text based OS to a GUI, it was a brilliant change! Metro has changed the standard we all know and loved for the last 17 years! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. It makes sense for a touch based OS but we are still using mice god damnit, I do not need to click on giant tiles the size of sticky notes to navigate.
 
Looking at the benchmarks on the front page, it seems like Win 8 lags behind 7 ever so slightly in most gaming benchmarks. While not always a factor, if you're hovering between 40 and 50 fps in Windows 7, the difference could be enough to be problematic.

I'm thinking that there's almost no way I'll be able to avoid Win 8 completely, but I'm at least holding out a little longer for some more mature drivers.
 
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