Did Nvidia take Ati's 4800 series lightly?

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POPEGOLD

[H]ard|Gawd
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http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8239&Itemid=1

I think back to when the Core2Duo came out.... Was AMD shocked by the can of whoop ass INTEL dropped on them or did they see it coming?

Did Nvidia take Ati Lightly this time?

My cousin just got a new system...and he is a long time Nvidia user...but he went with a INTEL x-fire board and a 4850.

this seems to be the common theme from what i am seeing...

If nvidia was indeed taken by suprise by ATi this time.... how quickly can they respond.
I dont know how much they can chop prices right now...

*DISCLAIMER.... This not a FLAMBAIT thread.... i am opening dialogue to how NVIDIA will respond to Ati and wondering what the thinking was at NVIDIA prior to the 4800 launch... If this offends you then i apologize in advance***
 
nvidia simply overestimated their position, now they will pay...
 
trudude said:
Alright POPEGOLD...I tried to stand up with you in another thread, but you are just a flamebaiter this much is obvious. Please don't start anymore nVidia vs. ATi threads. At least when I do it I am SERIOUSLY coming from a gamers point of view. You are simply trying to stir up the nVidia fanboys on here...
Click to expand...

please explain how this is flaimbait..... i compared this situation 100% to the AMD vs CONROE situation.

i posed the question what does NVIDIA do at this point?

and ask for dialogue.... this is not a flam bait thread

only people who feel baited is someone who has loyalties to a brand
 
Nuker said:
nvidia simply overestimated their position, now they will pay...
Click to expand...

Maybe... i dont think they was ready for the 4850...i think they expected it to be just a lil faster than the 3870 but not a threat to their 9800GTX
 
ok before this starts anything crazy, this is nothing like what the core2 architecture did to
AMD x2's back in 2006. Granted Nvidia overestimated how good its technology lead was to ATI, obviously AMD needed some time after buying ATI to get itself together.
 
POPEGOLD said:
please explain how this is flaimbait..... i compared this situation 100% to the AMD vs CONROE situation.

i posed the question what does NVIDIA do at this point?

and ask for dialogue.... this is not a flam bait thread

only people who feel baited is someone who has loyalties to a brand
Click to expand...
Whatever man. You can play that game with the admins if you want. I can't help you with this thread cause you and I know what you are trying to do. The only advice I can give you is I think it would be better if you made a thread after nVidia has come up with a response to the HD4000's. Making threads like this are literally the equivalent of you laughing in someone's face right after they get kicked in the balls. There is only one way people could take a thread like this and they don't need to be fanboys to see it.
 
AthlonXP said:
ok before this starts anything crazy, this is nothing like what the core2 architecture did to
AMD x2's back in 2006. Granted Nvidia overestimated how good its technology lead was to ATI, obviously AMD needed some time after buying ATI to get itself together.
Click to expand...

OH I AGREE...i highly doubt this is will lead to the moumnetal beat down AMD got and still getting from INTEL.....

you are probally right in stating that Nvidia did think they had more than enough lead
 
are there scoops on amd with a hardcore overclocking new processor?
 
trudude said:
Whatever man. You can play that game with the admins if you want. I can't help you with this thread cause you and I know what you are trying to do. The only advice I can give you is I think it would be better if you made a thread after nVidia has come up with a response to the HD4000's. Making threads like this which are literally the equivalent of you laughing in someone's face right after they get kicked in the balls. There is only one way people could take a thread like this and they don't need to be fanboys to see it.
Click to expand...


wait ...WHO FACE am i laughing in?. Does anyone here work for NVIDIA.?.. NVIDIA and Ati are just peices of silicon. and i am treating them as such.

i am not baiting anyone. iF u feel baited then u must have company loyalties and thats kinda silly. I buy what is the best for what i DO at the time

i am running all NVIDIA right now...and my last 2 rigs were all NVIDIA... why would i ATTACK a company i use all the time....
 
Yeah, this is getting old. My last several cards have been Nvidia and my current is ATI. I don't think you can make the comparison. Although the 4850/4870 rock, they don't necessarily destroy Nvidia performance wise (like when the Radeon 9700 Pro first came out) ... price is out of wack but that will probably change. Competition is good, but it's not like everyone switched to ATI overnight with these new cards.
 
DusterAZ said:
Yeah, this is getting old. My last several cards have been Nvidia and my current is ATI. I don't think you can make the comparison. Although the 4850/4870 rock, they don't necessarily destroy Nvidia performance wise (like when the Radeon 9700 Pro first came out) ... price is out of wack but that will probably change. Competition is good, but it's not like everyone switched to ATI overnight with these new cards.
Click to expand...

Well i do have a friend who works at NVIDIA... i will shoot him an email and ask him what the climate is over there...and what the payback is going to look like

cus i am sure NVIDIA has some severe payback in the works they always do.
 
I think the public did not expect ATi (AMD) to come up with a good product after so my many disappointments (since the X1900XTX). Remember, the more competiton between these two the better it is for us (the comsumer). But to me ATi is targeting the 200-300 range which is where most folks fall under thus making a push for profits (money) not world records.
 
I think everyone (no matter their brand allegiance) wasn't expecting such a good offering from ATI at such a competitive price... Nvidia was riding a big wave of sucess, and now they're going to have to lower prices or come up with something comparable relatively soon.

'Good to see you again Mr. Competition, we missed you here in the GPU market.':D

/thread
 
SexTreX said:
I think everyone (no matter their brand allegiance) wasn't expecting such a good offering from ATI at such a competitive price... Nvidia was riding a big wave of sucess, and now they're going to have to lower prices or come up with something comparable relatively soon.

'Good to see you again Mr. Competition, we missed you here in the GPU market.':D

/thread
Click to expand...

Yes it is WONDERFUL to hae competition back again in the GPU segment.

my only wish is that a 3rd company comes out with a great card to make it even more competitive
 
As for the core series from Intel, AMD definately knew it was there. Actually, anybody with a reasonable interest in computers knew that the little M that could would be a force of massive power. I mean..come on. a 1.4 GHz processor that nearly double OC's that smokes the current netburst CPU...how could you not think that Intel was brining that to the desktop? The writing was so on the wall.
 
nicepun said:
I think the public did not expect ATi (AMD) to come up with a good product after so my many disappointments (since the X1900XTX). Remember, the more competiton between these two the better it is for us (the comsumer). But to me ATi is targeting the 200-300 range which is where most folks fall under thus making a push for profits (money) not world records.
Click to expand...

the 3800 series cards were NOT a dissapointment
 
I'd expect Nvidia will be back on top the next iteration. This must be a bit of a wake-up call to them (tortoise passing the sleeping hare, as it were) and you just Jensen Huang is lighting fires under people to come up with a genuinely fresh product next time around. If they do that and bring the higher echellon products out of the elitist ranks and down where more people can afford them, then they'll be right back on top.
 
nicepun said:
I think the public did not expect ATi (AMD) to come up with a good product after so my many disappointments (since the X1900XTX). Remember, the more competiton between these two the better it is for us (the comsumer). But to me ATi is targeting the 200-300 range which is where most folks fall under thus making a push for profits (money) not world records.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what nvidia did to 3dfx, comparative products at a better price point that targeted the largest market of consumers.
 
but we warned Nvidia on many occasions not to get arrogant, but of course they haven’t listened.
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Like they aren't stating the obvious and taking credit for for it.
The chip design isn't done overnight. They guessed wrong on their performance over AMD's offerings.
Just like AMD guessed wrong on the R600s.

Unless you own stocks in either, who cares. Just buy what fits your needs and enjoy.
Let others live vicariously through their fanboy company.
 
Well in my prefect world... Ati and Nvdia would pass the CROWN back and forth on each major release.... keeps prices low and new chips coming out quicker

Well there are really 2 crowns
The overall performance leader crown and
The Price/Performance Crown
 
Kowan said:
Like they aren't stating the obvious and taking credit for for it.
The chip design isn't done overnight. They guessed wrong on their performance over AMD's offerings.
Just like AMD guessed wrong on the R600s.

Unless you own stocks in either, who cares. Just buy what fits your needs and enjoy.
Let others live vicariously through their fanboy company.
Click to expand...

Thank you.... i can see most people are discussing it... Why cant we discuss ATI and NVIDIA without people calling FLAMBAIT

as u stated who cares who is beating who... unless u have stocks and alot of money involved. we can still talk about there boards... thats not FLAMEBAIT
 
BX_TECH_GOD said:
I agree :)
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all almost owned a 3870... but when couldnt get find anyone who had it in stock at the time...8800GT was hard to find too..

went with a 8800GT 256meg model, as it was all that i could find... but ebayed it for my 9600GT's
....
 
In my opinion, yes. I sure did not expect such a vast improvement either. AMD is doing a great job with the 4000 series. :)
 
Yes, for the first time, AMD was very tight-lipped about 4870/4850

But what difference would it have made *except* for pricing and maybe clock-speeds?
Nvidia does not design their GPUs with AMD in mind. And they were working on Tesla for 5 years!

What Nvidia will do is drop prices on GT260
it was $329.99 after mail in rebate; back up to $349 =P
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133229

and already we see the GT280 as little as $560 after MiR.

Nvidia will probably race for the shrink; in the meantime i expect an "ultra" with GDDR5. And more competitive pricing.

yep, AMD also fooled me; i was going to buy a 280 but i am glad i JUMPED on a 4870 for $309. i love it
 
apoppin said:
Yes, for the first time, AMD was very tight-lipped about 4870/4850

But what difference would it have made *except* for pricing and maybe clock-speeds?
Nvidia does not design their GPUs with AMD in mind. And they were working on Tesla for 5 years!

What Nvidia will do is drop prices on GT260
it was $329.99 after mail in rebate; back up to $349 =P
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133229

and already we see the GT280 as little as $560 after MiR.

Nvidia will probably race for the shrink; in the meantime i expect an "ultra" with GDDR5. And more competitive pricing.

yep, AMD also fooled me; i was going to buy a 280 but i am glad i JUMPED on a 4870 for $309. i love it
Click to expand...

Always nice to see NON BRAND LOYAL people

i am jumping on the 4870X2 when it drops... then i am good for a long time


well till tax time
 
YeuEmMaiMai said:
the 3800 series cards were NOT a dissapointment
Click to expand...

With AA it was. But other than that I guess you're right. What I like most about ATi is that it comes with the decoder program that lets your overt different type of vid files (i.e. Tivo recordings to iPod videos...etc.).
 
apoppin said:
...Nvidia will probably race for the shrink; in the meantime i expect an "ultra" with GDDR5. And more competitive pricing....
Click to expand...

Any info on this or is this speculation?

The memory bus on the GTX 280 is 512-bit as opposed to the 4870's 256-bit bus... If nvidia comes out with a 280 with a 512-bit memory bus AND GDDR5...

Dear God, think of the bandwidth!
:eek::eek::eek::D:D:D
 
SexTreX said:
Any info on this or is this speculation?

The memory bus on the GTX 280 is 512-bit as opposed to the 4870's 256-bit bus... If nvidia comes out with a 280 with a 512-bit memory bus AND GDDR5...

Dear God, think of the bandwidth!
:eek::eek::eek::D:D:D
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A 280 with gddr5 would be a monster. I think that is one gun Nvidia can pull out and slap ATi upside the head

on the flip side... cost.... the 280 is already expensive to make and sell...DDR5 would add to that.

with the SHRINK to 55nm GDDR5 might be in play
 
I'm glad that AMD had it's success with the 4000 series. I don't think Nvidia took it lightly, they are having a lot of difficulty making a 55nm chipset consistently enough to make revenue. But AMD is going to get its ass handed to once again unfortunately by Intel with their Nahalem series coming up soon.
 
Not needed - Dr.Evil

Back on topic. Companies just like people become naturally complacent when not challenged. I doubt very much Nvidia was expecting the 4800 series to compete directly with the GTX's at a drastically lower price point. I don't think they would have priced the GTX's as high if they did.

ATI hasn't had a stellar track record as of late. Hopefully for the consumer they can keep pushing Nvidia to be innovative and vice versa. I would like to see this past one cycle of card releases.

Haven't we beat this to death yet?
 
POPEGOLD said:
A 280 with gddr5 would be a monster. I think that is one gun Nvidia can pull out and slap ATi upside the head

on the flip side... cost.... the 280 is already expensive to make and sell...DDR5 would add to that.

with the SHRINK to 55nm GDDR5 might be in play
Click to expand...

How is increasing an unsaturated memory bandwidth going to change anything?
 
snoops said:
Back on topic. Companies just like people become naturally complacent when not challenged. I doubt very much Nvidia was expecting the 4800 series to compete directly with the GTX's at a drastically lower price point. I don't think they would have priced the GTX's as high if they did.

ATI hasn't had a stellar track record as of late. Hopefully for the consumer they can keep pushing Nvidia to be innovative and vice versa. I would like to see this past one cycle of card releases.

Haven't we beat this to death yet?
Click to expand...

The architecture design in GPUs has changed very little since the 8 series. It's about time for a little innovation, maybe just a little?
 
BioSergeant said:
I'm glad that AMD had it's success with the 4000 series. I don't think Nvidia took it lightly, they are having a lot of difficulty making a 55nm chipset consistently enough to make revenue. But AMD is going to get its ass handed to once again unfortunately by Intel with their Nahalem series coming up soon.
Click to expand...

overclockers.com is saying INTEL is having deep fab problems @45nm...they dont have the capacity to fab Nehalem in volume for a while.

So AMD might catch a slight break.
 
There probably are some good questions about what nvidia was aiming for this generation. Maybe a post mortem-type article in the future will shed some light on it. The GTX 200 series performance really isn't bad, and it delivered a large boost over its prior single GPU cards. The price is the problem from the market point of view, "high-end" or not. And that of course is driven by the large die size of the GPU. The 55nm shrink isn't going to help with that much unless some kind of fat can be trimmed. A shrink alone is only going to reduce die size by 10-12%.

It doesn't help nvidia that AMD made a great design and is selling HD 4800 series cards for very reasonable prices. It would probably help AMD even more if the cards were sold at slightly higher prices, but I guess financial desperation gets us where we are today.

In another thread I thought that nvidia had possibly miscalculated by putting GPGPU and content creation ahead of the core audience (games). Maybe nvidia is drinking its own kool-aid a little too early. GPGPU will probably become more important in the future, but games are still what sell GPUs today. IMO the D10U isn't as big of a disaster as the R600, but it will probably take nvidia as long as the R600->RV770 cycle to deliver a more competitive part.

The real battle - overall discrete market share - isn't going to be fought with RV770 vs D10U, it's going to continue with current mid-range and low end parts until the next generation mid-range and low end parts are out. That's still unknown right now.
 
POPEGOLD said:
overclockers.com is saying INTEL is having deep fab problems @45nm...they dont have the capacity to fab Nehalem in volume for a while.
Click to expand...
I hate to keep repeating myself, but Ed @ overclockers is an idiot, no surprise since one of his primary/favorite sources is fudzilla. Fab 28 (45nm & future 32nm) in Israel opened this week and is expected to have wafers coming out in 6-7 weeks. And Intel has another US 45nm fab opening this year.
 
vengence said:
How is increasing an unsaturated memory bandwidth going to change anything?
Click to expand...

i agree. i dont see the gddr5 doing a whole lot on a bus that big. the advantage gddr5 has is that it allows the use of a smaller bus due to its insane clock speeds. with such a large bus, i dont think the gddr5 would even take advantage of the extra bandwidth. im sure there would be a performance increase, but i dont think it would be a huge difference.

correct me if im wrong though...i admit i dont know too much about gddr5 yet.
 
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