Did Nvidia take Ati's 4800 series lightly?

POPEGOLD said:
Here is the link to the article... no ED at overclockers is a long TIME hardcore AMD basher....so when he says something like this... i buy it
Click to expand...
I disregard all of his garbage because he is usually long on opinion and short on facts. His "idiot" description is apt. I criticize him when he prints garbage about AMD, Intel or anything else. In fact, I've asked Manny several times to stop posting that trash in the AMD forum for the sake of not posting misinformation.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601204&sid=amlr8dPtpiGQ&refer=technology

The facility, the third Intel plant to make chips using so- called 45-nanometer technology, will produce its first chips in about seven weeks, Maxine Fassberg, vice president and general manager of Intel Israel, said at a dedication ceremony in Kiryat Gat, about 50 kilometers (31 miles) south of Tel Aviv.
Click to expand...
Hint: this means Fab 28 was already running when Ed posted his usual uninformed garbage.
 
pxc said:
I disregard all of his garbage because he is usually long on opinion and short on facts. His "idiot" description is apt. I criticize him when he prints garbage about AMD, Intel or anything else. In fact, I've asked Manny several times to stop posting that trash in the AMD forum for the sake of not posting misinformation.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601204&sid=amlr8dPtpiGQ&refer=technology

Hint: this means Fab 28 was already running when Ed posted his usual uninformed garbage.
Click to expand...

yeah i usually can stand his crap either... he has a hardon for trashing AMD.... so when i saw him post something kinda PRO for AMD.. i thought it was probally good stuff...

but i can see his is off as usual thanks for the assist
 
Either nVidia was caught off guard this round or than decided to plow ahead knowing that they’d get it right next time. My guess is that by the time nVidia knew the situation they were in it was too late to do anything, at least at launch and then quickly went about seeing what its options were.

I think that people are making it seem that this is a kill FTW by AMD, and while their pricing model is fantastic, it’s not like they have a real performance advantage but perhaps what will change when the 4870x2 arrives.

So it’s a pretty rare misstep my nVidia, historically they haven’t made a lot of them, that’s why they have been successful and profitable. What’s going to be interesting is the NEXT generation. AMD/ATI have not historically been consistent from product release to product release. And nVidia to blunder two consective launches I don’t think has ever happened. We shall see.

On a who cares about performance price ratios note, I should be getting my third XFX GTX 280 standard clock card tonight. I can’t wait to see what all that over priced hardware does!:D
 
55nm die shrink is VITAL for NVIDIA aspirations: 8800GT: overheating problems, 280 GTX overheating problems; on AMD side: 3870: great overclocker, 4870: amazing overclocker. extremsystems has a few forums treads proving that at the same clocks the 4850 is only 7% slower than the 4870, so DDR5 impact on performance is at most 7%, BUT the better voltage regulators on the 4870 allow this card to reach higher clock speeds (just like the pair 3850/3870 did). Nvidia cards are overheating power hungry monsters with cheap and crap voltage regulators that do NOT allow room for much improvement without a complete new project. I don't see NVIDIA using DDR5 on the next 9 months it would skyrocket costs on a market that DO NOT NEED +$500 cards, since the 4850 made 1920x1200/0xAA possible for the masses. just like the 9600gt at ~$150 won the 16x10/0xAA gaming market the 4850 owned the 19x12 market. for 25x16 gamers things are bright on the next months, but in no way clear:
will the 1gb-OC-4870 or the 55nm 280GTX reach 30fps/2560x1600 on Crysis? Probably not, but who knows?
 
looks good on them

and competition is good for everyone, new products and better prices

only reason i got the gx280 was the evga stepup or i would have waited
 
To be honest, I think ATi took the 4800 series lightly.

Just look at AMD's own slides if you don't believe me. The 4850 was supposed to be an 8800 GT killer, and it beats the 9800 GTX. The 4870 was supposed to be a 9800 GTX killer, and it beats the GTX 260.
 
usually an nvidia user here. i definitely think nvidia took ati a little lightly, but not by too much. nvidia could recover by slashing prices (unless this will keep them from earning any profit) but i am a huge fan of innovation and progress so its ATi for me right now and i couldnt be happier.
 
InCogneato said:
usually an nvidia user here. i definitely think nvidia took ati a little lightly, but not by too much. nvidia could recover by slashing prices (unless this will keep them from earning any profit) but i am a huge fan of innovation and progress so its ATi for me right now and i couldnt be happier.
Click to expand...


SAME for me long time nvidia user... but not a nvidia lemming...

4870X2 for me!!
 
geok1ng said:
55nm die shrink is VITAL for NVIDIA aspirations: 8800GT: overheating problems, 280 GTX overheating problems; on AMD side: 3870: great overclocker, 4870: amazing overclocker. extremsystems has a few forums treads proving that at the same clocks the 4850 is only 7% slower than the 4870, so DDR5 impact on performance is at most 7%, BUT the better voltage regulators on the 4870 allow this card to reach higher clock speeds (just like the pair 3850/3870 did). Nvidia cards are overheating power hungry monsters with cheap and crap voltage regulators that do NOT allow room for much improvement without a complete new project. I don't see NVIDIA using DDR5 on the next 9 months it would skyrocket costs on a market that DO NOT NEED +$500 cards, since the 4850 made 1920x1200/0xAA possible for the masses. just like the 9600gt at ~$150 won the 16x10/0xAA gaming market the 4850 owned the 19x12 market. for 25x16 gamers things are bright on the next months, but in no way clear:
will the 1gb-OC-4870 or the 55nm 280GTX reach 30fps/2560x1600 on Crysis? Probably not, but who knows?
Click to expand...

I think that you are overstating the heat issues with nVidia cards. The GTX 280/260 aren't really any hotter than the 4800. In fact, some guys have been flashing the GTX's which lower voltage AND increase the clock speeds.

Of course the 4800's are clocked a good bit higher, but the GTX' have 50% more transitors on a larger process.

If nVidia can get the GT 200 down to 55nm, tweak it a bit and then up clocks to 4800's levels, then I think nVidia might have a very intresting product but of course we'd have to see AMD's response.
 
I think it's quite possible nvidia underestimated them, or maybe AMD overestimated the strength of their competition this cycle.

They still don't have the fastest single GPU based card though and don't look like having one any time soon
 
heatlesssun said:
I think that you are overstating the heat issues with nVidia cards. The GTX 280/260 aren't really any hotter than the 4800. In fact, some guys have been flashing the GTX's which lower voltage AND increase the clock speeds.

Of course the 4800's are clocked a good bit higher, but the GTX' have 50% more transitors on a larger process.

If nVidia can get the GT 200 down to 55nm, tweak it a bit and then up clocks to 4800's levels, then I think nVidia might have a very intresting product but of course we'd have to see AMD's response.
Click to expand...


EVGA has already released a card with a waterblock and 700mhz. I wouldn't be surprised if the die shrink they manage to crank out a 800mhz version of teh GTX280. Not the stock version mind you, but an OC'ed one. This would make for a 33% increase over the 280. That would probably compete with, if not beat the 4870x2.
 
if 4870x2 is really %80 faster than 4870 thats impossible besides 4870x2 will probably oc either
 
ebilcake said:
I think it's quite possible nvidia underestimated them, or maybe AMD overestimated the strength of their competition this cycle.

They still don't have the fastest single GPU based card though and don't look like having one any time soon
Click to expand...


yeah but the 4870x2 will be the fastest single card.... for less money than the gtx280...so thats a moot point
 
vengence said:
EVGA has already released a card with a waterblock and 700mhz. I wouldn't be surprised if the die shrink they manage to crank out a 800mhz version of teh GTX280. Not the stock version mind you, but an OC'ed one. This would make for a 33% increase over the 280. That would probably compete with, if not beat the 4870x2.
Click to expand...

This is good point. Clock for clock, the GT 200 is a good bit faster than the 4800. If nVidia can raise the clock speeds 30% and lower the cost 33%, the GT 200 55nm should be a compelling product.
 
I'm sure Nvidia underestimated them but they are fine with there position. It isn't like retail chains will run to AMD to have 4850's & 4870's put in there desktop systems. Referring to Dell, HP, Gateway, etc. Nvidia has that locked down. They dominate the mobile market as well. ATI(AMD) is to unreliable to release back to back great GPU's solutions. They'll get that great one out once every 3 to 4 generations. Wouldn't be surprised if things go back to the norm for them with there next gen.
 
I think there may have been a little of that, but you also have to think how long it takes to develope a card, get it taped out, early silicon to test, etc... By time they saw signs of AMD bringing out a contender they were already committed to this the GTX200 series and had to roll with it. They can't slam on the breaks and toss away months of work/research/product. No more than AMD could just toss out the Phenom at this point and just bring a whole new CPU to market. I think you have to keep in mind just how long it takes to ramp up a new product.

I also think you have to keep an eye on AMD right now, their whole love affair with the mid-range could really pay off since we have seen that outside of Crysis mid-range gaming rigs can play just about anything at 1680x1050 with no issues. There is more than one way for AMD to succeed and the 48xx series is a great example of that.
 
i do not think it is really a big deal. I mean nvidia was riding high for so long with the 8-series that it would do them some good to know that they are not invincible.
 
SexTreX said:
Any info on this or is this speculation?

The memory bus on the GTX 280 is 512-bit as opposed to the 4870's 256-bit bus... If nvidia comes out with a 280 with a 512-bit memory bus AND GDDR5...

Dear God, think of the bandwidth!
:eek::eek::eek::D:D:D
Click to expand...

Why not? Tesla is engineered for it, or so i heard from a good source.

Everything will be more expense and think of their "ultra pricing" for the Performance Crown; even though the shrink saves them money. it is their habit to do this.

i am going the other way - a 4870x2 to add to my 4870 = x3 ! i do not believe that the "extra" vRAM makes a practical difference until you get to 25x16 - and they are still as expensive as hell and out of reach of even above average gamers. i will only have 19x12, i think - so AMD for me - this year

next year .. or if i get that 30 incher .. Nvidia is the way to go - for the rich boy
- somewhat doubtful in this economy - heck, even Nvidia discounted my entry fee into their Nvision event down to $10 and refunded my extra charge [in San Jose, in August; i hope to take my vacation thru there]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top