Diablo III is getting killed on Metacritic

[Activate: AMD]

I have to ask, how old are you? You clearly don't understand basic economics/human interaction. I'm not looking for a merchant simulator, I'm simply acknowledging the reality that there is a market, which you seem unable to. Anytime there is scarcity, there will be markets. Doesn't matter if it's seashells, dollar bills or Diablo's gold.

And again, you're clearly naive. I can't examine an ingame SOJ with a jeweler's glass and say, "This one is clearly fake!" There isn't any way to determine valid items vs duped ones.

And finally, the cheating ruins a great action RPG because it ruins the market. Action RPGs are largely driven by gear, which is highly random. My wizard gets some great barbarian gear - rather than it being totally worthless, I can trade it with a barbarian who had some great wizard gear drop. When cheaters enter the mix, it destroys this.

Just go play the stock market if you want this crap.


seriously though, the $50k car is a horrible example because a) you didn't sink money into getting your legit drop and b) and having dupes in the MP does NOT justify screwing up the singleplayer GAME... which, you know, it is (a game that is)

The items on the Auction House came from someone killing bosses and getting rewarded with good loot. They don't appear out of thin air.

Except for the fact that they DO appear out of thin air.. blizzard makes up those drop rates.lo

 

[Nate7311]

It has everything to do with the cheating complaints. Introducing latency and an internet requirement for “single player”, and removing LAN entirely, for the benefit of the merchant minigame is not an acceptable solution. The auction house and trading are completely optional. If I can't log in because I'm not at home, or my internet is down, or the servers are down, or it is X number of years from now and D3 is no longer supported, I can't play the game. Anti-cheat isn't even needed if you have the capacity to ignore how other people play. This is an instanced game.

This right here is the most concerning thing for me... How many games have now been killed because online Auth servers have been decommissioned? Granted that EA is more famous for that than any company, but what is there to stop Blizzard from doing that to Diablo III 5 years from now? Hell, I still fire up Diablo II from time to time for some mindless destruction. Assuming they did authentication right and will continue to use the battle.net platform, we SHOULD have plenty of play time in the future. But it's that level of control over me that I don't like. I BOUGHT the game. They have it for SALE, not LEASE.

I don't care about the economics of the game, I just want to make sure I can use what I paid for.

 

[fps4ever]

I just don't understand how you DRM "haters" can get it through your head that cheating ruins a game like this as it does for most RPGs that are played online.

Guild Wars 2 is an always on connection. Where is the hate there?

You really don't have to look further than Diablo 1 to see the amount of duping and how it practically destroyed the game.

ummm...that isn't what my post was about.

I don't care about drm either way as long as it doesn't interfere with my game playing.

 

[TwistedAegis]

You're all right. D2 has the staying power it has had because of the SP component. All those rune words, etc, would be perfectly possible without trading and playing SP only. I should go play a stock trading game, because clearly I have no idea whats going on.

 

[roaf85]

You're all right. D2 has the staying power it has had because of the SP component. All those rune words, etc, would be perfectly possible without trading and playing SP only. I should go play a stock trading game, because clearly I have no idea whats going on.

I agree with you.

 

[Ruahrc]

This right here is the most concerning thing for me... How many games have now been killed because online Auth servers have been decommissioned? Granted that EA is more famous for that than any company, but what is there to stop Blizzard from doing that to Diablo III 5 years from now? Hell, I still fire up Diablo II from time to time for some mindless destruction. Assuming they did authentication right and will continue to use the battle.net platform, we SHOULD have plenty of play time in the future. But it's that level of control over me that I don't like. I BOUGHT the game. They have it for SALE, not LEASE.

I don't care about the economics of the game, I just want to make sure I can use what I paid for.

Your point has merit, but at the same time, Blizzard still has not yet shut down Diablo 2's battlenet servers, nor Starcraft 1, and probably even Warcraft 2 (? I don't know about this one).

Blizzard has a pretty proven track record of keeping servers online for old games.

And truthfully, no game or software you buy is actually a "purchase". Nor is any music, TV shows, or movies you buy either. It's all "you are granted one license to play/view/listen/whatever" to this content that we actually still own and only let you have by our generous nature. You didn't pay for a copy of Diablo 3, you paid for one license to access the game and its content which can be revoked by Blizzard at any time, it's right there in the TOS you agreed to when you first installed the game.

 

[roaf85]

This right here is the most concerning thing for me... How many games have now been killed because online Auth servers have been decommissioned? Granted that EA is more famous for that than any company, but what is there to stop Blizzard from doing that to Diablo III 5 years from now? Hell, I still fire up Diablo II from time to time for some mindless destruction. Assuming they did authentication right and will continue to use the battle.net platform, we SHOULD have plenty of play time in the future. But it's that level of control over me that I don't like. I BOUGHT the game. They have it for SALE, not LEASE.

I don't care about the economics of the game, I just want to make sure I can use what I paid for.

Diablo 2 has been running strong for 10 years........


Your argument is invalid.

Give me a list of 10 year old computer games besides MMOs that people still playing on this forum...


Your argument is invalid.

 

[Activate: AMD]

You're all right. D2 has the staying power it has had because of the SP component. All those rune words, etc, would be perfectly possible without trading and playing SP only. I should go play a stock trading game, because clearly I have no idea whats going on.

Your assertion is that all the dupes in MP justify this DRM, which prevents people from playing the game. Maybe thats true for MP (though I maintain that grinding to find valuable drops just to sell and make money off them is lame as hell) but how can you possibly justify it for single player? Plenty of people will never touch the MP, and those people are getting screwed royally

 

[Activate: AMD]

Diablo 2 has been running strong for 10 years........


Your argument is invalid.

Give me a list of 10 year old computer games besides MMOs that people still playing on this forum...


Your argument is invalid.

counterstrike. your argument is invalid

 

[roaf85]

counterstrike. your argument is invalid

CS:Source came out in 2004.

 

[ktk_ace]

Since a car analogy was thrown about I wanted to make one up as well.
Lets say you buy a car. But everytime that you wanted to go for a drive you had to call up the salesman to give you the key. Once you were done with the car you had to give the key back. Don't want anyone stealing your car now. If that car lot were to go under then your key no longer would work and you are stuck with a car that can't do anything. But! If you go through that sinister guy, the keymaker, he would provide you with a key that would allow you to drive your car whenever you want.

Thats my idea of always online DRM.

The short of it is if game developers would find clever ways to prevent a game from being played to its entirety (Batman Arkhams Asylum is a good example), instead of just assuming every consumer is untrustworthy and punishing them for it, then things would be smoother.

But until then, every single purchacer of D3 (and others) is going to be considered untrustworthy and a potential pirate because they "rented" out a product.

D3 can be better. D3 can be much, much, worse.

Its funny that people pay $60 to be labeled a potential criminal...

Its even funnier that from the land of freedom such an ironic ... situation can sprout out

D3 players are funny i say, very funny

 

[jbrukardt]

CS:Source came out in 2004.

he didnt say CS:S, he said CS

 

[roaf85]

he didnt say CS:S, he said CS

Sorry, but people are still playing CS? Why not play CS:S? Seriously I bet one person in this thread doesn't play CS on a regular basis.

 

[blort]

You don't have to trade to play action rpgs. You can still trade when cheaters exist. If you are concerned over the legitimacy of your gear then trade with people you trust. All of the cheating complaints ignore the part where you are in total control of how you approach the diablo series (this includes the fake economy). Diablo 3 is a single player action rpg that can be played in instanced co-op and (hopefully, eventually, maybe) has pvp. Fucking up the single player and removing LAN for the merchant mini game is unacceptable. The funniest part is that they didn't even have to fuck it up. Bnet, LAN and singleplayer could have coexisted with bnet being completely unaffected. Why anybody is defending this rush job is beyond me. I'm never going to ask for bnet to be fucked over in the name of LAN and single player. Why would anybody ask for the opposite? Especially when it wasn't even necessary.

 

[Mav451]

Sorry, but people are still playing CS? Why not play CS:S? Seriously I bet one person in this thread doesn't play CS on a regular basis.

The hitbox comparison is a good start on why people still play CS over Source.
Not saying everyone does (heck - I don't play either anymore), but good games with non-nub friendly mechanics can last long beyond their years. BW is actually a good example of this too

Which reminds me, when the heck is CS:GO coming out of beta ahaha.

 

[roaf85]

You don't have to trade to play action rpgs. You can still trade when cheaters exist. If you are concerned over the legitimacy of your gear then trade with people you trust. All of the cheating complaints ignore the part where you are in total control of how you approach the diablo series (this includes the fake economy). Diablo 3 is a single player action rpg that can be played in instanced co-op and (hopefully, eventually, maybe) has pvp. Fucking up the single player and removing LAN for the merchant mini game is unacceptable. The funniest part is that they didn't even have to fuck it up. Bnet, LAN and singleplayer could have coexisted with bnet being completely unaffected. Why anybody is defending this rush job is beyond me. I'm never going to ask for bnet to be fucked over in the name of LAN and single player. Why would anybody ask for the opposite? Especially when it wasn't even necessary.

No LAN play on SC2 sure didn't effect the popularity of sport.

Seriously just about every game to come out from blizzard in the past 5 years has had some sort of online always requirement.

So what makes you think that if there was no auction house there still wouldn't be the online always requirement? Because SC2 proves you wrong.

 

[blort]

No LAN play on SC2 sure didn't effect the popularity of sport.

Seriously just about every game to come out from blizzard in the past 5 years has had some sort of online always requirement.

So what makes you think that if there was no auction house there still wouldn't be the online always requirement? Because SC2 proves you wrong.

"Blizzard did it, therefore it is good." I already addressed why that is not a valid point.

 

[fps4ever]

No LAN play on SC2 sure didn't effect the popularity of sport.

Seriously just about every game to come out from blizzard in the past 5 years has had some sort of online always requirement.

So what makes you think that if there was no auction house there still wouldn't be the online always requirement? Because SC2 proves you wrong.

If that is true then thank the lord I haven't purchased any Blizzard games the last few years...(got a guest pass for D3).

Same with Ubicrap...

 

[roaf85]

"Blizzard did it, therefore it is good." I already addressed why that is not a valid point.

Neither is whining and complaining. I am saying from their recent track record the games are always online requirement as is one of other most popular RPGs hitting later this year (GW2).

But you said and I quote "that the auction house being in the game and the removal of lan play is unacceptable"

What makes you think the auction house was the sole reason for the online always requirement? That they would have made the game with an offline mode.

As far as I recall they announced the lack of LAN play way before they announced the real money auction house.

For those of us that are playing the game is lack of offline play perfect? No it isn't I have been disconnected at times, but I still would have bitched about the game? Why

Because I never rolled an offline character. If you took the number of online characters and compared to those who only rolled offline characters I think you would find the numbers pretty low.

I can imagine like someone else said that the game would have gone 10 years strong with just offline play.

 

[_PixelNinja]

Oh this is just getting better and better: Diablo 3 accounts hacked, gold and items stolen.

 

[roaf85]

If that is true then thank the lord I haven't purchased any Blizzard games the last few years...(got a guest pass for D3).

Same with Ubicrap...

Good for you, but if not for Blizzard PC gaming would have been severely diminished in the past 10 years.

You can hate on Blizzard for all you want, but Blizzard has done for PC gaming what Micheal Jordan did for basketball.

 

[termite]

Good for you, but if not for Blizzard PC gaming would have been severely diminished in the past 10 years.

You can hate on Blizzard for all you want, but Blizzard has done for PC gaming what Micheal Jordan did for basketball.

What? Did you forget the sarcasm tags?

Great way to argue there. If you have nothing constructive to add then don't post.

EDIT: I flagged your post if you seriously have to resort to name calling then I suggest you kindly get the fuck out of this thread.

Not sure where you are seeing name calling...

The D3 "launch" was certainly botched due to the always online DRM, regardless Blizzards excuse for why they are using it did as a matter of fact keep people from playing MP and SP.

 

[Kerkain]

It's a tradeoff, but then everything in life is. It isn't solely due to some evil plot from Blizzard to suck your soul out of your body; the overblown hate on the decision without acknowledging the environment they have to operate in (hacks, dupes) is just childish.

The always on DRM isn't to prevent people pirating their product. They already prevent that by having people do key registration which they have been doing since the dawn of time.

That is the whole point of DRM to try and prevent piracy. My issue is with the fact that once I register my key and hell even do an online activation, if my internet goes out I'm done playing, and not by choice.

Not to mention that there will be a time that Blizzard will no longer exist. It will just be gone. May not be anytime soon but eventually those servers that you need to download the loot will be gone. And your D3 won't work anymore. How that isn't even the least bit concerning is in itself concerning.

You've rented your game.

Someday you will have to rely on a site like GOG.com to get you a DRM free version of the game so you can play it in its entirety in the future.

And truthfully, no game or software you buy is actually a "purchase". Nor is any music, TV shows, or movies you buy either. It's all "you are granted one license to play/view/listen/whatever" to this content that we actually still own and only let you have by our generous nature. You didn't pay for a copy of Diablo 3, you paid for one license to access the game and its content which can be revoked by Blizzard at any time, it's right there in the TOS you agreed to when you first installed the game.

Again, how is that not at all concerning to you? Blizzard can at choice revoke your ability to play the game that you bought. Will it happen, doubtful. But its still a risk that you are taking. Pretty sure Maxis isn't going to be stopping me from playing SimCity 2000 when I get home anytime soon.

I didn't have to be connected to the internet to watch the DVD I bought from Walmart the other day. Or play the CD I bought and put in my car. Nor did it need to be activated first. Nor did it require a key code. I didn't have to download anything. It didn't need to connect to a server the whole time to download parts of the movie that were missing from the retail version.

 

[Fix Me]

I just don't understand how you DRM "haters" can get it through your head that cheating ruins a game like this as it does for most RPGs that are played online.

Guild Wars 2 is an always on connection. Where is the hate there?

You really don't have to look further than Diablo 1 to see the amount of duping and how it practically destroyed the game.

Guild Wars 1 and 2 are MMORPG's (online all the time by their nature), Diablo isn't supposed to be. I don't get the analogy.

And what the hell are you all talking about with this economics crap? When did Diablo become about loot and money? I thought it was just a romp through a fantasy world fighting demons? It's an action RPG, right, and not a merchant simulator (as at least one other person keeps pointing out)? What's an auction house, why is there one in Diablo 3, and why should I care? I can almost guarantee you that I will never visit it. I get plenty of stuff just playing the game. Granted, I haven't gotten past Act I yet (I've only played it for a few hours on Saturday), but I would be kind of pissed if I had to use D3's version of eBay to win the game.

Some of us just want to kill demons in Diablo III and enjoy the adventure. We don't care about whatever economics exist because we don't utilize them nor do we care about them. I guess we're basically transients, lol.

 

[Nate7311]

Diablo 2 has been running strong for 10 years........


Your argument is invalid.

Give me a list of 10 year old computer games besides MMOs that people still playing on this forum...


Your argument is invalid.

The argument is not invalid. The question is not WILL they. It's CAN they. And Diablo isn't an MMO. It's an RPG with an online co-op mode.

Ok, I'm going to claim troll and move on.

 

[roaf85]

That is the whole point of DRM to try and prevent piracy. My issue is with the fact that once I register my key and hell even do an online activation, if my internet goes out I'm done playing, and not by choice.

Not to mention that there will be a time that Blizzard will no longer exist. It will just be gone. May not be anytime soon but eventually those servers that you need to download the loot will be gone. And your D3 won't work anymore. How that isn't even the least bit concerning is in itself concerning.

You've rented your game.

Someday you will have to rely on a site like GOG.com to get you a DRM free version of the game so you can play it in its entirety in the future.




Again, how is that not at all concerning to you? Blizzard can at choice revoke your ability to play the game that you bought. Will it happen, doubtful. But its still a risk that you are taking. Pretty sure Maxis isn't going to be stopping me from playing SimCity 2000 when I get home anytime soon.

I didn't have to be connected to the internet to watch the DVD I bought from Walmart the other day. Or play the CD I bought and put in my car. Nor did it need to be activated first. Nor did it require a key code. I didn't have to download anything. It didn't need to connect to a server the whole time to download parts of the movie that were missing from the retail version.

See that is the thing. Blizzard has yet to prevent me from playing Starcraft 1 or Warcraft 3 online.

I bought Warcraft 3 when I built my first computer and that was almost 11 years ago. I can still log on and play the game online. And if I couldn't play a game of DOTA I would be 100 times more pissed than if I could never play the single player.

I understand your concern but you have to realize something just like Steam realized

1. Old games are not valuable because people don't want to play them
2. Blizzard is not EA.

 

[TwistedAegis]

Some of us just want to kill demons in Diablo III and enjoy the adventure. We don't care about whatever economics exist because we don't utilize them nor do we care about them. I guess we're basically transients, lol.

Nothing is preventing you from doing so. However a large number of people, I would be so bold as to say a significant majority, DO play online and DO trade items. Just look at how fast the AH is moving as evidence of this. And for that to matter, and not just blow up the game (hey look, 200 copies the best legendary in the game for 1G!), they needed the server-side item generation, which requires the game to always be online.

Even if you don't care about the AH, having duping will ruin public games entirely, because everyone will be overgeared and just blow up content. Or just leave the game entirely. The always-online feature insures the integrity of the game for the whole MP side of the game.

 

[Intel_Hydralisk]

When did Diablo become about loot and money?

Diablo is pretty synonymous with phat loots.

 

[fattypants]

Troll. Come on guys? Seriously give me a list of the 10 year old games you still play online with friends?

1. Every multiplayer game that doesn't require master server authentication

A comprehensive list would be too long to post.

 

[blort]

Nothing is preventing you from doing so.

Except for the internet requirement and blizzard's servers. Even when those requirements are met a single player game should not be subject to latency.

However a large number of people, I would be so bold as to say a significant majority, DO play online and DO trade items. Just look at how fast the AH is moving as evidence of this. And for that to matter, and not just blow up the game (hey look, 200 copies the best legendary in the game for 1G!), they needed the server-side item generation, which requires the game to always be online.

Even if you don't care about the AH, having duping will ruin public games entirely, because everyone will be overgeared and just blow up content. Or just leave the game entirely. The always-online feature insures the integrity of the game for the whole MP side of the game.

D3 could have had bnet, LAN and single player with bnet functioning exactly as it does now. They rushed it either for the sake of rushing it, or the auction house, or whatever other reason. Always online single player and removing LAN is wrong. The "why" doesn't matter, especially if they could have avoided it in the first place. Just because they decided to ruin single player and remove LAN doesn't mean it was a good thing.

 

[Intel_Hydralisk]

D3 could have had bnet, LAN and single player with bnet functioning exactly as it does now. They rushed it either for the sake of rushing it, or the auction house, or whatever other reason. Always online single player and removing LAN is wrong. The "why" doesn't matter, especially if they could have avoided it in the first place. Just because they decided to ruin single player and remove LAN doesn't mean it was a good thing.

They designed the game from the ground up for server calls to avoid duping fiascos that occurred in D2 and other exploits. The game needs a server to run much like WOW cannot just be locally installed and run off your local machine without some sort of server to talk to.

 

[roaf85]

Guild Wars 1 and 2 are MMORPG's (online all the time by their nature), Diablo isn't supposed to be. I don't get the analogy.

And what the hell are you all talking about with this economics crap? When did Diablo become about loot and money? I thought it was just a romp through a fantasy world fighting demons? It's an action RPG, right, and not a merchant simulator (as at least one other person keeps pointing out)? What's an auction house, why is there one in Diablo 3, and why should I care? I can almost guarantee you that I will never visit it. I get plenty of stuff just playing the game. Granted, I haven't gotten past Act I yet (I've only played it for a few hours on Saturday), but I would be kind of pissed if I had to use D3's version of eBay to win the game.

Some of us just want to kill demons in Diablo III and enjoy the adventure. We don't care about whatever economics exist because we don't utilize them nor do we care about them. I guess we're basically transients, lol.

Thats not the point. You don't have to use the auction house to "win the game". There are already people through inferno long before using the ebay auction house.

Guild Wars 1 isn't an MMO. It is an instanced action RPG, similar to Diablo. You can't run around the open world with friends and can only group up with 5 people at a time to do an area.

Another person said something about the economics, which I agree with, but in a difference sense. I am adding onto his points that when you go into a game and someone is like

"Here is the most epic staff in the game...free of charge, everyone is going to take that, like they did in Diablo 1".

Now if there is no Auction House in D3 then you just have sites claiming to offer this items for a price, like WoW does.

Now your counter is "well people can just buy the epic items" and they can in D3, but will not ruin the game, because it hasn't in WoW.

You are always going to have that trade off there between the people who want to run the content vs those who just flat out buy the gear.

Honestly I see another 4-5-6 Diablos coming. They pretty much have to in order to make the real world auction house viable.

 

[blort]

People are literally still playing a lvl (10-80) character in Diablo 2 at this very moment...in single player?

Can anyone in this thread say they are? Be realistic.

Yes, I just started playing it again. People are different than you.

 

[Nate7311]

After this I'm out of this thread, as it's repetitive and there is no progress at all.

Again... The question isn't "Do I play old games?" It's "Can I play old games?"

You said

1. Old games are not valuable because people don't want to play them
2. Blizzard is not EA.

If 1 is true, then Why is HL, HL:Orange, and the original CS still for sale on Steam?
And for 2, What if they develop the EA mentality? Your entire argument is based in the present. The question we all need to be asking is what are their plans for the future? Will they stick to it? If the Game buying masses accept this change then that will become the norm for future games.

 

[TwistedAegis]

Except for the internet requirement and blizzard's servers. Even when those requirements are met a single player game should not be subject to latency.

D3 could have had bnet, LAN and single player with bnet functioning exactly as it does now. They rushed it either for the sake of rushing it, or the auction house, or whatever other reason. Always online single player and removing LAN is wrong. The "why" doesn't matter, especially if they could have avoided it in the first place. Just because they decided to ruin single player and remove LAN doesn't mean it was a good thing.

For me and most others, the latency is entirely a non-issue.

The why absolutely does matter, because otherwise you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, which is apparent in you ignoring every explanation as to the reasons they have done so.

But anyway, it's clear you've closed your mind and in your world Blizzard stood up and said, "We're going to destroy SP and LAN on purpose, how are we going to do this?!", despite how ludicrous that viewpoint is. No point in having a discussion about it.

 

[roaf85]

Except for the internet requirement and blizzard's servers. Even when those requirements are met a single player game should not be subject to latency.

Aside from the few disconnects I am running 200-300 ms of lag and the game feels like it is running on 50 ms. I notice not a single delay and this is why rapid fire blasting left and right. I play Demon Hunter which I consider to be the most "lag sensitive class".

Have I had DCs? Yea 2 for like 5 minutes. Was it annoying? Yes, but it didn't ruin the game experience because I would have rolled a online character anyways like 9 of 10 characters I rolled in D2.

THE ONLY LAG I HAVE GOT IN D3 HAS BEEN FROM THE FPS DROPS. (sorry for caps)

 

[roaf85]

After this I'm out of this thread, as it's repetitive and there is no progress at all.

Again... The question isn't "Do I play old games?" It's "Can I play old games?"

You said



If 1 is true, then Why is HL, HL:Orange, and the original CS still for sale on Steam?
And for 2, What if they develop the EA mentality? Your entire argument is based in the present. The question we all need to be asking is what are their plans for the future? Will they stick to it? If the Game buying masses accept this change then that will become the norm for future games.

You didn't quote my whole post. You should have because I wrote something about Steam. Steam games that old are going for ridiculously cheap.

Steam sells lots of games for dirt cheap that aren't even played online by anyone anymore. In the case of CS, yea I bet a few people play, but no one has stepped up to say "yea I still play CS".

I still fire up CS:S every once in a while, but it isn't CS, it is CS:S.

I can't answer whether will pull an EA and shut down the SC1 and D2 servers. Would I be upset? No! Is this me hugging blizzards nuts?

Nope...like I said before I hardly play 10 year old games. I don't have SC1 or D2 even installed on my computer right now.

 

[roaf85]

1. Every multiplayer game that doesn't require master server authentication

A comprehensive list would be too long to post.

Or it doesn't exist. You seriously play more than 50 LAN enabled games with friends that are more than 10 years old?

I consider more than 25-50 to be a massive list. Hell if you listed more than 5 I would be impressed.

 

[blort]

They designed the game from the ground up for server calls to avoid duping fiascos that occurred in D2 and other exploits. The game needs a server to run much like WOW cannot just be locally installed and run off your local machine without some sort of server to talk to.

Bnet stays the way it is. Single player characters stored locally and are non transferable to bnet. Is this going to affect multiplayer?

For me and most others, the latency is entirely a non-issue.

The why absolutely does matter, because otherwise you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about, which is apparent in you ignoring every explanation as to the reasons they have done so.

But anyway, it's clear you've closed your mind and in your world Blizzard stood up and said, "We're going to destroy SP and LAN on purpose, how are we going to do this?!", despite how ludicrous that viewpoint is. No point in having a discussion about it.

What they did to single player and LAN is wrong. Why they did it does not matter especially when it could have been prevented. See the following:

You don't have to trade to play action rpgs. You can still trade when cheaters exist. If you are concerned over the legitimacy of your gear then trade with people you trust. All of the cheating complaints ignore the part where you are in total control of how you approach the diablo series (this includes the fake economy). Diablo 3 is a single player action rpg that can be played in instanced co-op and (hopefully, eventually, maybe) has pvp. Fucking up the single player and removing LAN for the merchant mini game is unacceptable. The funniest part is that they didn't even have to fuck it up. Bnet, LAN and singleplayer could have coexisted with bnet being completely unaffected. Why anybody is defending this rush job is beyond me. I'm never going to ask for bnet to be fucked over in the name of LAN and single player. Why would anybody ask for the opposite? Especially when it wasn't even necessary.

 

[fattypants]

Or it doesn't exist. You seriously play more than 50 LAN enabled games with friends that are more than 10 years old?

That isn't what you asked. Now you've changed the question.

But in your vehement and zealous defense of Activision-Blizzard, you have inadvertently brought up a very important point. Anyone can still play those old games, no master server login needed. The master server login is an unnecessary part of the equation. All it does is guarantee that someday, eventually, the game can and will go down.