I am all for single player also but your circa 1999 stereotype needs to be town portaled back to said era. Pst just a hint most of us pimply faced geeks found the gym... Just saying BRAH
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Diablo III is getting killed on Metacritic
- Thread starter MrAgmoore
- Start date
I am all for single player also but your circa 1999 stereotype needs to be town portaled back to said era. Pst just a hint most of us pimply faced geeks found the gym... Just saying BRAH
Then don't cheat if it's so important to you. How other people choose to play does not affect you. Blizzard does not need to save you from yourself. Choose to play however you see fit and let others do the same.
The pay to win auction house is worse than duping. They took a shitty concept (acquire loot effortlessly through duping and w/e else) and legitimized/exploited it (acquire loot effortlessly [in the context of playing the game] through exchange of real life money).
Despite my low opinion of duping and the auction house I am fine with their existence. If people want to use those things I don't care. It is not going to change how I play the game.
Unfortunately the always on DRM does affect how people play. Introducing lag to the people that choose to play single player does not make multiplayer Diablo 3 better. If anything it is making it worse because more people are being served that otherwise would not.
You have a strange disconnect that allows you to completely disregard that people are not only different than you are, but that their different approach to life (in the case of diablo 3) does not affect you in the fucking slightest.
Dumbest comment I read in a long ass time and I read A LOT of dumb comments.
collegeboy69us
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I'm not sure if your reading comprehension is poor, or you are trolling. I'm very interested to know where you got the idea that I was looking for some way to cheat or supported any of that nonsense in the first place.
My original point was that the D2 economy went to pure crap because of all the cheating/duping/etc. It's the exact same thing when someone shows up in a BF3 server and goes 120:2 with all head shots from across the map. I fully support any effort to eliminate any cheating in modern online video games.
In situations like this, "how someone plays" absolutely does effect the game experience, the game economy, and ultimately how everyone enjoys the game. In a game where stats/money/gear are one of the core features... such a system has to have a very high amount of integrity.
Blizzard made the decision to make things server side in an effort to keep some of that integrity and people are butt hurt because they seemingly can't be bothered to log into an online system. If we are on this general line of thinking - I suppose we should also bitch at google gmail for having an online password, or that downloading a 5MB attachment might take 15 seconds instead of 10.
I actually have no problem with people who "are different" or "play different" my problem is with people's inability to understand there are reasons why things are done or designed a certain way. It sounds like your expectations differed wildly from known and published facts about the way the game was designed, yet you still bought it. Blizzard made the game they see fit, if you don't like it don't buy it (or don't play it) When you buy a truck and once you get it home in your garage do you get mad that the manufacturer didn't make it such that the truck had seating for 8 people in reclining chairs that give sloppy BJs and make you a sammich? No, because it's a truck, and was designed to haul stuff.
I'll gladly take the extra 2 seconds to login to D3 if it means I don't have to worry bout some butt monkey duping client side items for quick profit.
In the age of the cloud - you might have a harder and harder time finding software that satisfies you. Like it or not we are moving to a more online and connected life.
Parmenides
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I tried the open beta, but i still need to ask, what is D3 really about? Is it about item finding?
No more irrelevant than any of your opinions...except those guys are paid to give their opinions and their audience is a whole lot bigger than yours.
You obviously missed the point that was clearly spelled out in one of the quotes about what was wrong with how the story elements work in multi-player...if one person of your party skips many of them...then it is skipped for everyone.
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TheCommander
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Thats what Blizz intended it to be since you cant customize anything in the game- skills and stats are automatically gained. It's too bad the items so far are uninteresting.
I am all for single player also but your circa 1999 stereotype needs to be town portaled back to said era. Pst just a hint most of us pimply faced geeks found the gym... Just saying BRAH
Why, is that where you found a job working as a janitor? Just saying BRAH
Please a Talent tree doesn't automatically give game customization, and stats? Please, Main stat maxed with enough vitality to live. Also if you're thinking about Diablo 3 having the good gear on the lowest setting (normal), you're crazy since nightmare or w/e the highest difficulty setting is where the best gear is at (at lvl 60). All that the stats and Talent tree do is if you screw up you have to recreate your character or respec. Which makes it worthless as building a character is anyway. Before there wasn't any talent respecs you would have to waste your time recreating your character if you messed up a point which makes it more tiresome that you screwed up. All of this 'customization' was just fluff and worthless, the main thing was exploring dungeons, getting loot, using awesome abilities, and awesome cinematics.
The fact is that each class has more skills and several runes per skill and there really is more customization. It just isn't permanent, which helps with the flow of the game, if you find that this skill doesn't work, move on and use another instead of having to beat a boss with a broken skill or stats. You have 6 slots to choose whatever skills you want to pick with a rune each that affects that skill. D3 is D2 basically without the Talent Tree and Stats with better graphics. If you don't like that, or your tastes have moved on... w/e but that's what it is. Those calling it not Diablo just shows a huge misunderstanding or are misrepresenting what D2 was.
You are claiming that taking options away is not taking options away. What the fuck. Maybe you didn't do anything but search the internet for cookie cutter builds when you played D2 but that doesn't mean nobody made "exotic" chars and enjoyed doing that. Like I said before, those who can think for themselves prefered things in D2 because D2 allowed for stupid people to screw up if they didn't think about what they were doing. In D3 you cannot do anything wrong... just click on the bad guys. Wheres the challenge? When do you ever have to figure anything out?
If you think that building a talent tree and stats are a challenge, well then... good for you. But that doesn't make it complicated or a bad thing they took it away. Making your stats anything but your main stat and vitality was stupid and there's nothing exotic about using strength on your necro. Using different talents builds is exotic i guess, but you can just use a different combination of w/e skills/runes you want using elective mode in d3 even though they might not be the best they would be fun for you or like you said exotic, if you want the best, it rewards you having the best skills and damage runes etc. It just isn't permanent so you can easily find what you like best or find out what is the best just like the cookie cutter builds of before if that was what the player wanted to do.
Also I didn't say anything about its a good thing to take options away, I just said that taking options away that really didn't mean much to a lot of people and replacing them with other customization that isn't permanent isn't that bad imo. They took away something outdated and replaced it with several skills that you can put on any place on your bar. You can have four defensive skills if you want, all with any rune that you feel is best.
I'm glad that you like feeling superior to everyone because you built your own talent tree and planning out everything, but again not much of a challenge to begin with and more just a waste of time to what was fun to people in D2, going around killing stuff, cool skills, loot, and exploring with friends. The entirety of Diablo 2 had basically no challenge to it. Nostalgia clouds your view imo.
mrtheshaggy
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The first thing they will fix is the loot stats and crafted gear. Of course there should be a element of randomness. However, 95% of the pieces I see at lvl 40 have the stats of something a lvl 10 would desire. So first and foremost they will be fixing that I should think.
Second is loot drops. It is obvious something is bugged with boss drops. Absence of set pieces and for some reason yellows almost never drop from them despite dropping like crazy from random mobs (such as the very common treasure trolls).
Finally their lack of a skill tree is an obvious disaster. They are taking what they were or maybe already have implemented in WoW. Fuck the skill trees and just pick some abilities. Obviously that was a bad decision. Since they have proven very willing to trash the entire talent system in wow on multiple occasions, I think we would see the same thing in Diablo 3. I think Titan's Quest did it the best. Even if you don't get to pick more than one skill tree, the amount of theory crafting capable in a Titan's Quest build is mind blowing.
Between Diablo 1, 2, 3, Titan's Quest, and Torchlight. I have to say Titan's Quest is my favorite followed by Diablo 2. Diablo 3 is just a few easy changes away from surpassing Titan's Quest.
Second is loot drops. It is obvious something is bugged with boss drops. Absence of set pieces and for some reason yellows almost never drop from them despite dropping like crazy from random mobs (such as the very common treasure trolls).
Finally their lack of a skill tree is an obvious disaster. They are taking what they were or maybe already have implemented in WoW. Fuck the skill trees and just pick some abilities. Obviously that was a bad decision. Since they have proven very willing to trash the entire talent system in wow on multiple occasions, I think we would see the same thing in Diablo 3. I think Titan's Quest did it the best. Even if you don't get to pick more than one skill tree, the amount of theory crafting capable in a Titan's Quest build is mind blowing.
Between Diablo 1, 2, 3, Titan's Quest, and Torchlight. I have to say Titan's Quest is my favorite followed by Diablo 2. Diablo 3 is just a few easy changes away from surpassing Titan's Quest.
TheCommander
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Most people dont care about cookie cutter builds; many people did have cookie builds but also had variations of characters. Now it's pointless to choose the same character. Taking options away is never good and the game is totally item based now. The game is fun but not as fun as D2 was. Maybe the element of planning a new build or trying a new one added something to D2. Heck, maybe Blizzard should just automatically equip our characters with items too.
As for the items, I am on inferno difficulty and the items legendary and rare I have found just dont compare to the items found in D2.
I attribute this again to nostalgia, first time finding a good item can never be as good as any other time after. Again you can choose any skill from all your skills and put it wherever you want, just because you can change it doesn't mean its worse. Also why would you want to continue creating characters anyway? It seems overly pointless to create a barb just to try out another thing, it might add time to your playtime but it doesn't create compelling gameplay just timesinks. How does automatically equipping our characters even seem remotely the same as getting rid of talent trees? You still get to choose what skills you want, you just don't have to waste time getting other skills as requirements and you can just go straight to them and use them with whatever customized rune you want. Its different but its not worse imo. Its not like talents really did much besides give you skills anyway. Maybe some passives... oh wait theres that in d3 as well, but again not permanent. Also D2 was completely item based once you got max level, you would just farm the bosses or redo the mediocre story.
D
Deleted member 174368
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I wish people that made these comments could somehow prove they already beat Hell or better yet, Inferno.
In D2 you could max out 1 skill and just click on the bad guys too... anything is possible in Normal.
PC gaming would have taken a shit a lot time ago if not for Blizzard.
Seriously do you realize how many companies that try to minic games that Blizzard created?
This isn't just me hanging on their nuts, but the only big name developer out there that is developing for the PC first and the console second is Valve and how many times can they make an FPS? Portal was the only original game they made in years.
Most people did care about cookie cutter builds, because the builds seriously were not viable if you didn't follow the stat allocation to a T or you didn't put the skill points in at the right level.
Seriously a lot of builds were only viable for soloing Hell if you followed the cookie cutter spec.
I bet Blizzard spends hours a day trying to balance the skill trees in WoW. Skill trees are the reason we don't see more hero classes and the reason they took a shit on the lore and let Horde have Paladins.
It is ridiculously hard to balance skill trees and even in WoW most people are just looking up cookie cutter builds anyways. And if you aren't well then you are forced into a spec once you start raiding.
I was all bringing back the skill trees from Diablo 2 for about 5 seconds until I:
1. Realized how much of a pain in the ass they were
2. Played Diablo 3.
the reason for this was the hacked items. before the eth'd glitched runewords, hell wasn't so bad that you couldn't build strange builds like singer barbs or whatnot.
eventually, all the hacked items and related overpowered runewords made it necessary to increase the resistances of enemies in hell and make it so that unless you had a cookie cutter build or gear that included super rune word items or hacked gear.
Someone saying "fuck this game" blah blah blah has no value. It is whining.
In your car and driver example would you buy a car that Car and Driver said was the best car of the year, even though you read some bad things on a message board? The internet gives an outlet for people to just disagree for no apparent reason.
Metacritic user reviews are no different.
This is why you don't read profession reviews by people who are just like "oh my god this game is so fucking gay, cartoons and shit and my 10 year old graphics card can run this".
Most profession reviews are objective.
So basically the shit you just described probably can't happen with the Diablo 3 online drm.
The first two Diablos are about killing bosses and getting rewarded with good loot, but this one seems to be just about finding items on the Auction House.
That is not what I said. If cheating is so important to you then you have the power to not cheat and ignore the people that do. Blizzard does not need to save you from yourself. That is what I said. You are the one with the poor reading comprehension.
Not being able to buy/sell your items for as much video game money in D2 is a pathetic excuse for supporting D3's always on DRM. Nobody is forcing you to interact with cheaters. Buy/Sell your stuff to friends and whatever legit players you find if you are so hard up for a merchant simulator. This is not a competitive fps where people can come into your server and ruin your fun.
Your hyperbole and bad analogy are kinda funny. A lot of people enjoy gaming in situations where internet is unavailable or too slow. The zero ping experienced in an offline single player D3 would have obviously been superior. Storing multiplayer assets in the cloud and locally storing single player assets would have had the same integrity. The two game types would never cross over or interact in any way. This would have a positive effect on multiplayer because it would lessen the load on the servers.
It does not matter how good blizzard gets at speeding up the current system. If I want to play D3 in X amount of years it will not function out-of-the-box if Blizzard doesn't exist anymore or stops running their D3 servers. I'm sure some other solution will exist if that ever comes to pass but it should never have been an issue. Not having to log in to play a single player game is a matter of principle if nothing else.
Hyperbole and bad analogy again. Just because Blizzard did it doesn't make it a good thing. That is your only point. Blizzard did it, therefore it is good. How other people play, whether it is single player, cheating, or whatever else, is only affecting you if you let it. Don't let other people doing those things bother you and don't participate in them yourself. Problem solved. I'll assume you are unable to do this. Even then, if you are incapable of self control and need Blizzard to save you from cheating and cheaters, their anti-cheating was poorly implemented and detrimental to single player.
The first two Diablos are about killing bosses and getting rewarded with good loot, but this one seems to be just about finding items on the Auction House.
QFT. It's killed the game for me.
The first two Diablos are about killing bosses and getting rewarded with good loot, but this one seems to be just about finding items on the Auction House.
Are you saying that is the mindset of the players or are you saying that the loot drops are sub par?
If I buy the game I will certainly ignore the auction houses.
I never understood the midset of those WoW players who pay other people to level their character or spend real money to buy gold etc. from other players. What is the point of PLAYING the game? I thought Blizzard strongly discouraged such behavior to the point of banning people for it. Why encourage it with auction houses now? I think an in game, server specific, game gold only auction house might make some sense....but not a real money auction house.
When I played D1 and D2 I more often used loot which I found as opposed to buying from the merchants. However, I do realize that was MY style of play and others prefer to play the game differently.
D
Deleted member 232162
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Holy sh*t, this thread is still going.
I'm enjoying the game very much, wonder who else is.
I'm enjoying the game very much, wonder who else is.
its getting killed on amazon too fyi.
http://www.amazon.com/Diablo-III-St...iewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
http://www.amazon.com/Diablo-III-St...iewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
You never understood the mindset? It pretty easy, you have a lot of shit to do and little time to do it, so you buy gold. Or you might have started raiding with a new guild where the progression of items/levels is higher than what you have time for.
The auction house is really over priced. We are talking like 100k for just yellow drops. It is ridiculous. If you are not to inferno difficulty, then there is no use in using the auction house.
So, im in the middle of act 3. The story and voice acting has taken a nose dive. The plot feels so rushed at this point. The lag doesn't help either. I'll finish D3 for sure, but I couldn't tell someone it's a worthy sequel with a straight face.
Best to reserve judgment till the end of Act 3, but yes the story is not nearly as good as D2.
Ruoh
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Holy sh*t, this thread is still going.
I'm enjoying the game very much, wonder who else is.
Yep, it's an awesome game. I wonder what the ratio of original (Played D1/D2/WC) players to new players (Weren't even born when D1 came out) is, and how that effects their perception of D3.
Since a car analogy was thrown about I wanted to make one up as well.
Lets say you buy a car. But everytime that you wanted to go for a drive you had to call up the salesman to give you the key. Once you were done with the car you had to give the key back. Don't want anyone stealing your car now. If that car lot were to go under then your key no longer would work and you are stuck with a car that can't do anything. But! If you go through that sinister guy, the keymaker, he would provide you with a key that would allow you to drive your car whenever you want.
Thats my idea of always online DRM.
The short of it is if game developers would find clever ways to prevent a game from being played to its entirety (Batman Arkhams Asylum is a good example), instead of just assuming every consumer is untrustworthy and punishing them for it, then things would be smoother.
But until then, every single purchacer of D3 (and others) is going to be considered untrustworthy and a potential pirate because they "rented" out a product.
D3 can be better. D3 can be much, much, worse.
Lets say you buy a car. But everytime that you wanted to go for a drive you had to call up the salesman to give you the key. Once you were done with the car you had to give the key back. Don't want anyone stealing your car now. If that car lot were to go under then your key no longer would work and you are stuck with a car that can't do anything. But! If you go through that sinister guy, the keymaker, he would provide you with a key that would allow you to drive your car whenever you want.
Thats my idea of always online DRM.
The short of it is if game developers would find clever ways to prevent a game from being played to its entirety (Batman Arkhams Asylum is a good example), instead of just assuming every consumer is untrustworthy and punishing them for it, then things would be smoother.
But until then, every single purchacer of D3 (and others) is going to be considered untrustworthy and a potential pirate because they "rented" out a product.
D3 can be better. D3 can be much, much, worse.
Intel_Hydralisk
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The first two Diablos are about killing bosses and getting rewarded with good loot, but this one seems to be just about finding items on the Auction House.
The items on the Auction House came from someone killing bosses and getting rewarded with good loot. They don't appear out of thin air.
Would you rather spam the trade channel? I didn't realize people enjoyed that.
PornoSatan
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That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Hacked items were in patch 1.09 and under. 99.9% of them were removed with 1.10, and during 1.10 they also buffed monsters and overall difficulty of the game. 1.10 was a big thing for D2, because it also included things like synergies. But the increase in difficulty had nothing to do with hacked items, hacked items existed when the game was already easy.
TwistedAegis
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Lord, where to begin...
No, you fail at economics. Diablo has a global economy that is set by scarcity of items. Duping and hacking completely destroyed that, devaluing real drops. If a boss drops a great item, I don't get as much trade value. Some of the drops will be/are incredibly rare. Solely dealing with a group of friends, no matter how large, means you won't have access to many items.
This has nothing to do with it and is just a pointless insult.
Somewhat true. But say you bought that car for $50k. You had a good time with it, but now you want to sell it and get something new. Except now you find that EVERYONE has the same car, and paid nothing for it. So you're stuck with it because you're way upside down on your car note. Having the key speak to the server prevents this.
It's a tradeoff, but then everything in life is. It isn't solely due to some evil plot from Blizzard to suck your soul out of your body; the overblown hate on the decision without acknowledging the environment they have to operate in (hacks, dupes) is just childish.
No, you fail at economics. Diablo has a global economy that is set by scarcity of items. Duping and hacking completely destroyed that, devaluing real drops. If a boss drops a great item, I don't get as much trade value. Some of the drops will be/are incredibly rare. Solely dealing with a group of friends, no matter how large, means you won't have access to many items.
This has nothing to do with it and is just a pointless insult.
Somewhat true. But say you bought that car for $50k. You had a good time with it, but now you want to sell it and get something new. Except now you find that EVERYONE has the same car, and paid nothing for it. So you're stuck with it because you're way upside down on your car note. Having the key speak to the server prevents this.
It's a tradeoff, but then everything in life is. It isn't solely due to some evil plot from Blizzard to suck your soul out of your body; the overblown hate on the decision without acknowledging the environment they have to operate in (hacks, dupes) is just childish.
The always on DRM isn't to prevent people pirating their product. They already prevent that by having people do key registration which they have been doing since the dawn of time.
The DRM is to prevent people from modifying the hex data to create duplicate items that carry over into the multiplayer portion.
The car example is bogus. All you are doing is logging into the game. You are basically typing a password, which takes about the same effort as turning your key.
A better example for the online DRM would have been:
Diablo 2: Push button start
Diablo 3: Turning a key
Your desire for a merchant simulator has overshadowed your desire for a good game. You aren't able to make as much video game money on bnet in the D2 merchant minigame so you are fine with Blizzard compromising D3 as a whole with it's atrocious DRM. You are entitled to that opinion. It is my opinion that your priorities are backwards and you lack self control. The solution to all of the cheating is simple. Do not participate. Avoiding cheaters is not an issue with an instanced game. If your number one priority is a merchant simulator cheating can be an issue, but if your priority is a good action rpg then it is not.
The anti-cheat (always on DRM) was poorly implemented. They could have kept single and multilayer completely separate. The multiplayer would function as it does now and single player could actually be called single player. LAN would exist too.
It has everything to do with the cheating complaints. Introducing latency and an internet requirement for “single player”, and removing LAN entirely, for the benefit of the merchant minigame is not an acceptable solution. The auction house and trading are completely optional. If I can't log in because I'm not at home, or my internet is down, or the servers are down, or it is X number of years from now and D3 is no longer supported, I can't play the game. Anti-cheat isn't even needed if you have the capacity to ignore how other people play. This is an instanced game.
That analogy is about as accurate as possible.
The tradeoff is extremely uneven. The single player game as a whole was compromised and LAN was eliminated for tighter security in one of the bnet minigames (trading phat lutes for more goldz).
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TwistedAegis
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I have to ask, how old are you? You clearly don't understand basic economics/human interaction. I'm not looking for a merchant simulator, I'm simply acknowledging the reality that there is a market, which you seem unable to. Anytime there is scarcity, there will be markets. Doesn't matter if it's seashells, dollar bills or Diablo's gold.
And again, you're clearly naive. I can't examine an ingame SOJ with a jeweler's glass and say, "This one is clearly fake!" There isn't any way to determine valid items vs duped ones.
And finally, the cheating ruins a great action RPG because it ruins the market. Action RPGs are largely driven by gear, which is highly random. My wizard gets some great barbarian gear - rather than it being totally worthless, I can trade it with a barbarian who had some great wizard gear drop. When cheaters enter the mix, it destroys this.
I've seen it all now. Arguing over Diablo 2/3 game economics...
I just don't understand how you DRM "haters" can get it through your head that cheating ruins a game like this as it does for most RPGs that are played online.
Guild Wars 2 is an always on connection. Where is the hate there?
You really don't have to look further than Diablo 1 to see the amount of duping and how it practically destroyed the game.