Diablo 3 Discussion Thread

Inu said:
I heard Diablo 3 is leaving beta at the end of August. :rolleyes:
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Not even close. It will have left beta about six months after the PVP patch when the bugs and imbalances it will inevitably introduce are fixed. It'll be at least a year before D3 exits beta, and probably 6-9 months after the first expansion pack will it feel like a polished Blizzard title that we've all come to expect.
 
Yea it'll be a fun game years later when they have the 'game of the year' edition or w/e packaged with the expansion and everything, with all the patches and balancing said and done.

It may be a sweet game then, but who knows if they'll even fix it with pvp and an expansion. They may still ignore the core problems with the game.
 
And thats precisely my point. WoW for example has been changed many times over the years, and at the same time its what keeps drawing people in. Its a crazy and stupidly successful business model that im tired of.
 
Inu said:
And thats precisely my point. WoW for example has been changed many times over the years, and at the same time its what keeps drawing people in. Its a crazy and stupidly successful business model that im tired of.
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Yea i dunno... it's a mixed bag, really. Vanilla got a lot of stuff right, and so i keep going back to that from time to time. However some of their changes at 70 and 80 were nice, but not all.
 
Thuleman said:
wrt: RMAH/AH economics
The biggest issue is that there really isn't any data. Unlike in other games with in-game economies in D3 there is no record of what items have sold for and how many items have sold. This is were EVE Online for example really shines.
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Thats why I like it :D If I'm one of the only people taking the time to collect data points on prices of commodities and such and seeing how it changes over time, I have an advantage in using it like a stock market ^^.

There's the rudimentry line that says what the last 10 trades averaged at as well as what the last day's average was. But thats not much and it leaves a lot to be speculated about.

Items are a whole different ballgame. You'd have to really keep tabs on certain groupings of stats. It'll be a lot easier come patch time when we have the ability to track 6 stats instead of the current 3 per item. One person won't be able to keep track of everything, you'd need to put together a group of guys keeping track on certain stat combos to really be effective at day trading items.

Its pretty open right now and with the thought of PVP in the future and the economy slow right now, I feel like its a perfect time to gear up and get a feel for the market before shit hits the fan once they release news of a PVP date.
 
Are there bots for searching/posting/bidding etc on the AH?

Makes sense to me that if you had a bot running all day you could have it play the AH within certain thresholds. Also, you could have it collect this data you are talking about.
 
chockomonkey said:
Are there bots for searching/posting/bidding etc on the AH?

Makes sense to me that if you had a bot running all day you could have it play the AH within certain thresholds. Also, you could have it collect this data you are talking about.
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Yes there are bots that parouse, and yes, you could make bots to gather data, but thats botting and its against the ToS and while it would make things easier it takes away from the feeling that you actually put in work to achieve your hard earned results.

You could always buy your items for real money and not put any time into the game and still be beast in PvP when it comes out, but where's the fun in that?

Whatever floats your boat
 
BigBallinGPR said:
Just throwin out a line, but has anyone really sat down and studied the economics of the AH and RMAH?

I've just started in my endeavor and want to see if there's anyone out there who has found similar results. So far, I've noticed that there's a big discrepancy between the RMAH and AH in terms of value based on what the RMAH values gold to be worth. The only downside to this, and whats keeping me from making $7 per gem resale is that I can't sell gold on the RMAH, I've been trying for a while now and nothing has been selling. I attribute this to an influx of people selling gold (presumably due to botting) and a lack of people purchasing gold.

The only way that i've seen currently to make a decent amount is to buy items in the AH, and sell them at a loss (in terms what the gold is worth at a $ value based on what you'd get for selling) on the RMAH. This would constitute putting in time farming gold + items with high MF and gold find values, which is actually something I find enjoyable playing with friends.

I'd love to start a sub topic of AH/RMAH economics if people are interested, but i figured I'd post here as this is the only D3 thread i could find thats relevant.
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This thread is fine. Between Blizzard's cut and AH bots, it is very difficult to make money flat out flipping items. Also, currently the game is an a lull without PVP so there are about 1/3 the buyers (and sellers) there were a month ago. Without much end game the community is not real fond of the RMAH but this could change as they keep adding content (mainly PVP). Right now, I am sticking to the gold AH for the above reasons.
 
BigBallinGPR said:
Its pretty open right now and with the thought of PVP in the future and the economy slow right now, I feel like its a perfect time to gear up and get a feel for the market before shit hits the fan once they release news of a PVP date.
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It could be interesting but I know that it's not worth my time as there just isn't enough real money to be made. What keeps other game economies going is consistency. The D3 economy is more like playing roulette. The items can overnight be nerfed and you can lose all your accumulated value in an instant. This is really not the case in many, if not most, other games where you can convert in-game currency or items to real world currency.

From where I am looking sales have really slumped big time, and I am selling at 50% of the lowest buyout price for comparable stats. I have nearly all my character slots taken up by mules and I am sitting on 40-45 items in my AH queue + 10 listed at any given time. Even though there is a lot less demand for items the prices are not coming down. You see 20-40mil for sub-par ilv63 out there and sure they don't sell but the sellers are also not lowering the prices because basically they don't have to.

I find that D3 is fundamentally flawed as there is no incentive to keep playing. Unlike in real MMOs you tend to not form relationships with other players. There are by and large no guilds and no progression. The end game in D3 is farming, but why? To what end would you spend hundreds of hours farming? To find some high end item that sells well? That logic only works till you look at the opportunity cost of obtaining that item. But let's say you get that perfect roll item, no one may want it for the price you set for it, then what?

Ultimately there is no long term appeal because the idea that you will get perfect items and they will sell for a lot only worked in the first couple three weeks after launch and perhaps it will work the first couple weeks after PvP, then the earning potential is basically zero.
 
here are a few of my observations.

Blizzard must have noticed too much good gear was dropping so in Patch 1.0.3 they changed something to prevent that. More gear drops now but virtually none of it is good. I have done 90% more farming post 1.0.3 and yet 90% of my gold and gear came from 1.0.2...the 10%.

So this has caused good gear to become more and more rare on the auction house and the good gear that is there is more and more expensive.

Blizzard will likely try and fix this in future un doing the drop quality nerf, but that won't really help the auction house as Botters with unlimited gold will keep the price of good items in the 100,000,000's range.................It will likely help the people to try and farm their own gear though.

In my opinion the best time to sell good gear is between now and the next Item quality important patch.......which they will likely will semi stealth in.

and if you don't need the gold don't sell the gear as the value of gold is plummeting and the value of gear is going up.
 
stevedave said:
Blizzard will likely try and fix this in future un doing the drop quality nerf, but that won't really help the auction house as Botters with unlimited gold will keep the price of good items in the 100,000,000's range
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I just don't see the general D3 population paying 100M for a single item. Getting to 60 and completing Inferno Act 1 is trivial. Completing Act 2 is a lot harder and Act 3 is basically not doable for the majority of the players.

I think that the gold spam keeps the price of 1M visible. You see that 1M costs $1 right now. So then when you see that 100M item you inevitably think "Is this really worth $100 to me?" and at the inevitable end of that line of thought you decide to quit D3 and just enjoy life instead.

It is beyond retarded that I should have to spend hundreds of millions of gold to complete Act 3/4. Yes, some dudes do it with 500k in all blue gear and they die like a few thousand times but they complete the game, also not my idea of entertainment.

D3 isn't even a beta, it's an unfinished game that doesn't have any viable way to keep players interested in playing long term. Having said that, I still do want to finish it just because I am like that, but there are plenty of other better games out there to spend time on rather than farm hundreds of hours to buy that 100M piece of gear.
 
Thuleman said:
D3 isn't even a beta, it's an unfinished game that doesn't have any viable way to keep players interested in playing long term.
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No, Diablo 3 is just not the game that you wanted it to be.

It's not beta? Does it crash for you all the time? Hah, come on. Same story again and again. Move on. Blizzard let the D2 audience down but calling D3 unfinished is just bullshit.
 
Thuleman said:
I just don't see the general D3 population paying 100M for a single item. Getting to 60 and completing Inferno Act 1 is trivial. Completing Act 2 is a lot harder and Act 3 is basically not doable for the majority of the players.

I think that the gold spam keeps the price of 1M visible. You see that 1M costs $1 right now. So then when you see that 100M item you inevitably think "Is this really worth $100 to me?" and at the inevitable end of that line of thought you decide to quit D3 and just enjoy life instead.

It is beyond retarded that I should have to spend hundreds of millions of gold to complete Act 3/4. Yes, some dudes do it with 500k in all blue gear and they die like a few thousand times but they complete the game, also not my idea of entertainment.

D3 isn't even a beta, it's an unfinished game that doesn't have any viable way to keep players interested in playing long term. Having said that, I still do want to finish it just because I am like that, but there are plenty of other better games out there to spend time on rather than farm hundreds of hours to buy that 100M piece of gear.
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the D3 General Population is pretty much done with the game for now. Most of what is left is people who do want that 100 Million piece of gear and new people.

There isn't really such thing as a finished game in the PC world anymore as most games have updates and releases to improve the game, we all know D2 and a dick ton of releases and one could of said the same thing about it.

Currently there isn't an endgame but what currently is won't be current in the future. People who bought this game own it for life and just like all D2 players people will start and stop playing this game over and over and over.
 
Thuleman said:
I just don't see the general D3 population paying 100M for a single item. Getting to 60 and completing Inferno Act 1 is trivial. Completing Act 2 is a lot harder and Act 3 is basically not doable for the majority of the players.

I think that the gold spam keeps the price of 1M visible. You see that 1M costs $1 right now. So then when you see that 100M item you inevitably think "Is this really worth $100 to me?" and at the inevitable end of that line of thought you decide to quit D3 and just enjoy life instead.

It is beyond retarded that I should have to spend hundreds of millions of gold to complete Act 3/4. Yes, some dudes do it with 500k in all blue gear and they die like a few thousand times but they complete the game, also not my idea of entertainment.

D3 isn't even a beta, it's an unfinished game that doesn't have any viable way to keep players interested in playing long term. Having said that, I still do want to finish it just because I am like that, but there are plenty of other better games out there to spend time on rather than farm hundreds of hours to buy that 100M piece of gear.
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OMG!! THIS IS 100% TRUE... ITS LIKE YOU TOOK THE WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH.. HOLY SHIZ!!!! FIX THIS GAME BLIZZARD!:eek::eek::eek:
 
krogen said:
No, Diablo 3 is just not the game that you wanted it to be.

It's not beta? Does it crash for you all the time? Hah, come on. Same story again and again. Move on. Blizzard let the D2 audience down but calling D3 unfinished is just bullshit.
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D3 is a shell of a game with a bunch of bullshit features piled on top, tons of money spent on advertising, etc, and they forgot to finish making the game in the midst of all their social crap and AH shenanigans.
 
krogen said:
No, Diablo 3 is just not the game that you wanted it to be.[...] calling D3 unfinished is just bullshit.
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Yep, definitely not the game I want it to be, but also unfinished. Yes, it's not beta because it doesn't crash, it's just not "feature complete".

Ultimately, for the adult audience, it comes down to how entertaining the gameplay is in comparison to other games or other RL activities which compete for what little leisure time adults have. The RMAH is a clear indicator that the game was made, and Blizzard ultimately can profit, from people who can afford to pay-to-play.

I am not opposed to that concept at all, in fact I do welcome it very much because I would rather pay $10 for something than spend 10 hours of my time on some repetitive, menial, and not entertaining task for the sake of obtaining something which I could just buy for $10.

Right now that balance is out of whack not that it really ever existed. Blizzard's long term revenue depends on me buying the expansion pack and on me using the RMAH. If the game is not entertaining to me then I will just walk away.

I want to play D3, and Blizzard wants me to play it. In order for the both of us to get what we want the itemization has to be completely redone. This random stats bullshit was a college freshman's approach to itemization coding and it is simply not viable to keep players like me interested in the game. The algorithm has to be redone in such a way that the overall quality of the loot is improved.

A drop rate increase of crap loot will statistically result in some better loot but in practical terms the entertainment value people receive from getting crap loot is zero. While they are at it they can just remove unids from the game and be done with it since it adds nothing of value to the game.
 
Thuleman said:
Yep, definitely not the game I want it to be, but also unfinished. Yes, it's not beta because it doesn't crash, it's just not "feature complete".

Ultimately, for the adult audience, it comes down to how entertaining the gameplay is in comparison to other games or other RL activities which compete for what little leisure time adults have. The RMAH is a clear indicator that the game was made, and Blizzard ultimately can profit, from people who can afford to pay-to-play.

I am not opposed to that concept at all, in fact I do welcome it very much because I would rather pay $10 for something than spend 10 hours of my time on some repetitive, menial, and not entertaining task for the sake of obtaining something which I could just buy for $10.

Right now that balance is out of whack not that it really ever existed. Blizzard's long term revenue depends on me buying the expansion pack and on me using the RMAH. If the game is not entertaining to me then I will just walk away.

I want to play D3, and Blizzard wants me to play it. In order for the both of us to get what we want the itemization has to be completely redone. This random stats bullshit was a college freshman's approach to itemization coding and it is simply not viable to keep players like me interested in the game. The algorithm has to be redone in such a way that the overall quality of the loot is improved.

A drop rate increase of crap loot will statistically result in some better loot but in practical terms the entertainment value people receive from getting crap loot is zero. While they are at it they can just remove unids from the game and be done with it since it adds nothing of value to the game.
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Nice and constructive post. The idea that not even the base stats (str, int, dex) are thrown in your classes favor is indeed a blunder.
 
these last few posts are clarifying how much different the game is and what it will never be from what some of you want.

Some of you want more relevant gear, better drops, and more map content so you can get to that end-game and do something to or with it (grind it, beat it, whatever).

but the game as designed is that the loot is in and of itself the endgame. That's why there is no end-game that some of you seem to be expecting on the horizon and forms the basis of your criticism that the game is incomplete.

for many people. those stats being irrelevant and crappy drops create the end-game experience of grinding for more loot. that's even what blizzard says in the patch discussion release. it's not necessarily my type of game, I only play with some of my friends, but those friends certainly live to grind gear and they're ecstatic as pigs in shit.
 
there is no end game loot to grind grind to loot, same as it ever was. Although the grind on inferno bites back if u have crap gear.
 
Ahah wow I don't think anyone will be complaining about Legendary items anymore. That Skorn, 1500 DPS and 95% chance for an additional 6-9k damage, jesus.
 
AceCR42 said:
Ahah wow I don't think anyone will be complaining about Legendary items anymore. That Skorn, 1500 DPS and 95% chance for an additional 6-9k damage, jesus.
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And 192% crit damage. And a socket. And 300 stat. They've swung this thing too far the other way IMO.
 
I'm sure that is more an extreme case than the norm. Seriously though, holy shit that is nuts!
 
Aix said:
And 192% crit damage. And a socket. And 300 stat. They've swung this thing too far the other way IMO.
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Business6 said:
I'm sure that is more an extreme case than the norm. Seriously though, holy shit that is nuts!
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How do you figure? Thats totally appropriate. The reason being is no one used 2H'ers because of the additional stats you can get from dual wield. So if you can get 400% crit from dual wield, base 100% crit each, plus sockets, then why isn't it appropriate for a 2H to be able to have 200% base crit and a socket. If anything you can still end up short at 300% crit.

They were incredibly underpowered before, now they brought them up to a decent level, but in no way are they OP.
 
New Legendaries will get people to log back in. This is exactly what many of us having been saying for months. Itemization was fucked from the start, now it is slowly coming back to a level fitting of a released game.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
New Legendaries will get people to log back in. This is exactly what many of us having been saying for months. Itemization was fucked from the start, now it is slowly coming back to a level fitting of a released game.
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True, the changes do sound nice and I have been playing from release and don't plan on stopping anytime soon, I just can't help but think that these kind of things should've been figured out looong time ago. They really needed to make their closed beta a non disclosure and let the testers reach max level or something. Because this game just wasnt tested properly imo. But I like the direction that its heading.
 
Rdzona said:
True, the changes do sound nice and I have been playing from release and don't plan on stopping anytime soon, I just can't help but think that these kind of things should've been figured out looong time ago. They really needed to make their closed beta a non disclosure and let the testers reach max level or something. Because this game just wasnt tested properly imo. But I like the direction that its heading.
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Absolutely on the closed full beta. This stuff needs to be tested! End game can't be metagaming the auction house.

I still think level cap should be 99 with better bosses and ability to grind out extra perks for skills (at least rune improvements), but...
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Absolutely on the closed full beta. This stuff needs to be tested! End game can't be metagaming the auction house.

I still think level cap should be 99 with better bosses and ability to grind out extra perks for skills (at least rune improvements), but...
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I've been saying this in conversations with my buddy all along. Give us something REAL to grind and a way to actually build our characters!!!!!
 
LeninGHOLA said:
New Legendaries will get people to log back in. This is exactly what many of us having been saying for months. Itemization was fucked from the start, now it is slowly coming back to a level fitting of a released game.
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Too little too late. No amount of tweaking will get me back to play this game.

I wasted 100 bucks on a Beta. Shame on me. But shame on Blizzard for deceiving us.
 
Krenum said:
Too little too late. No amount of tweaking will get me back to play this game.

I wasted 100 bucks on a Beta. Shame on me. But shame on Blizzard for deceiving us.
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Honestly, we should have known. Activition + blizzard, the current state of WoW, PANDARIA ffs... the writing was on the wall.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Absolutely on the closed full beta. This stuff needs to be tested! End game can't be metagaming the auction house.

I still think level cap should be 99 with better bosses and ability to grind out extra perks for skills (at least rune improvements), but...
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agreed, you should be able to use more passives and more skills too. Also some of the skills are completely useless garbage bullshit and including some of the passives. So many crap noone can use or will use cuz its worthless does shit damage etc.
 
Syntaxx said:
agreed, you should be able to use more passives and more skills too. Also some of the skills are completely useless garbage bullshit and including some of the passives. So many crap noone can use or will use cuz its worthless does shit damage etc.
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well allegedly, they're touching on a lot of that with this patch too. It's taken them 3 months, but it seems their finally getting around to fixing larger parts of the game. The endgame will still come later, but i'll be happy to be able to log on and try out some other specs which were just worthless.
 
Krenum said:
Too little too late. No amount of tweaking will get me back to play this game.

I wasted 100 bucks on a Beta. Shame on me. But shame on Blizzard for deceiving us.
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Yes, quite a few will not be logging back in. They should have made a better effort to release the game feature complete.

I'll probably mess around a little with the new legendaries to see the unique properties in action, but there isn't much to do at this point.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
Yes, quite a few will not be logging back in. They should have made a better effort to release the game feature complete.

I'll probably mess around a little with the new legendaries to see the unique properties in action, but there isn't much to do at this point.
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The problem is that changes won't be retroactive so you'll have to go out there with hopes of getting a legendary drop... and we all know how often that happens =P
 
chockomonkey said:
The problem is that changes won't be retroactive so you'll have to go out there with hopes of getting a legendary drop... and we all know how often that happens =P
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Not often at all. In fact, one might say I've seen 1 per every 40 hours played. None of which was over ilevel 57. I promised my friend I'd help him beat Act IV though, so I may as well stack some MF and see what happens.
 
chockomonkey said:
The problem is that changes won't be retroactive so you'll have to go out there with hopes of getting a legendary drop... and we all know how often that happens =P
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With enough diligence in farming, legendaries come by relatively frequently (relatively being the key word). With 300% MF with NV, you can probably run into one every 4-6 hours. Yeah, that's a long time, but not the same as the 200+ hours people have seen with none in sight. I'm more afraid that the drop rates are going to be nerfed after this. Then again, they are all still subject to a bit of randomness. I wouldn't be surprised that most of those Skorn maces won't roll that high.
 
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