Dell 3009wfp or U3010

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boe

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Hello,

I believe the rumors for the U3011 were led backlight. The U2410 is IPS. I'm not an expert at screen technology although I always appreciate a better looking display. Is IPS also led backlit? If not which is better or what are the advantages of one over the other?

Thanks

Also if you have any good sources for info on the next dell 30" I would be interested in reading them.

Edit - I changed the model numbers to make this thread a tad more current as yet another year has passed and still no new Dell 30"
 
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LED backlight or not has nothing to do with the panel.

The backlight is just the "lamp" behind the panel, without it everything would just be dark. The panel can be (for instance) an IPS panel, S-PVA panel or TN panel (etc).
The panel itself is transparent and let some of the backlight through. The reason for why LCDs in general have poor black levels is because it's hard to block all the light from the backlight. This is the reason for why OLED has much better blacks, since it doesn't have a backlight and actually turn the light down instead of trying to block it.

I think it'd be quite safe to say that the new dell 30" will be IPS. But other than that I don't think theres any solid information about it yet.
 
Thanks for the info!!!! Always good to learn something new.

Can anyone tell me the advantages of IPS or S-PVA or TN?
 
Jonte - Thanks!

So does anyone know if the u2410 is IPS or super IPS?
 
IPS is old, no consumer displays have IPS anymore if I'm not mistaken. Almost all IPS displays are S-IPS and thats usually what people mean when they say IPS.

But there are two newer additions.
H-IPS http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1262785
and
e-IPS which basically is H-IPS but cheaper (Dell 2209WA)

U2410 uses H-IPS
 
Brumwald, thanks for the extra info!

I guess the only thing that surprised me about the u2410 vs my 3007wfp is the contrast ratio is the same according to Dell's web page. I thought it would be improved.
 
I haven't heard any recent rumors on a new Dell 30" or a 30 inch LED Cinema from Apple recently so I guess it could be a while.
 
boe said:
Brumwald, thanks for the extra info!

I guess the only thing that surprised me about the u2410 vs my 3007wfp is the contrast ratio is the same according to Dell's web page. I thought it would be improved.
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Static contrast ratio of 1000:1 seems to be the ceiling on LCDs for a long time now.
Don't pay any attention to dynamic contrast ratios as those seem to be greatly exaggerated and don't appear to count nearly as much for image quality as static contrast ratio.
 
Thanks. Anyone here have an opinion on LED backlight being a good thing or bad? I notice somethings are good for people who use their computers for graphics that may not be good for gamers etc. Just curious what people thought about LED backlit like the Apple 24" cinema led.
 
Lifetime of a CCFL tube 20000-40000 hours with a slow but continuous degradation in brightness and gradual alteration of spectrum.

Lifetime of LED backlighting 100000 hours, with no change in spectrum and only might decrease in brightness.

Yeah there is some usefulness to LED's.
 
Thanks - the LED's last longer - I get that. Can you tell me if they make the picture brighter or offer more contrast, less contrast or what the visual impact is? Is it better or worse for graphics and colors? Better or worse for gaming?

Thanks
 
boe said:
Thanks - the LED's last longer - I get that. Can you tell me if they make the picture brighter or offer more contrast, less contrast or what the visual impact is? Is it better or worse for graphics and colors? Better or worse for gaming?

Thanks
Click to expand...

They don't make the picture brighter or higher contrast. Marketecture will tell you differently but it's 95% lie with 5% truth. Many (if not all) LED TVs can do local dimming, where a "zone" on the screen can have the LEDs turn off, but it's not "per pixel" so it's still just a dark spot on a screen. Pretty ho hum IMHO :)

LEDs take less time to reach full brightness. CCFLs generally need "warm up" time to reach full brightness stability, which can be longer if used at low brightness, whereas LEDs don't. I think LEDs also allow a wider range of brightness too. CCFLs can be limited in that regard too.

ar09 said:
isnt one of the dells 30in an ips panel??
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Only the Samsung 305T and Gateway XHD3000 are Samsung S-PVAs as far as I know. Pretty much every other 30" screen is an IPS panel as far as I know.
 
I'm surprised there is no info on a new 30". I've been to a few Dell conferences and everyone I met was also wondering about new 30" screens.
 
30" screens are still a premium/smaller market due to price, and thus have longer product cycle periods. I don't have any inside info, but I doubt you will see any movement on this from Dell until next year. The 3008WFP is not even 2 years old yet, as it was introduced early 2008.
 
I wouldn't bank on any 2010 30" monitor having LED backlights. There are a few out there that have been out a year or two, but they are expensive because they use RGB LED's (combinations of red, green and blue LED's to get a white composite). Most of the affordable LED backlit TV's and monitors use white LED's. It will take time for these to fill in lower volume areas of the market like higher end 24 and 30 inch LCD's.

Benefits beyond lifetime include better color reproduction because of a more consistent and predictable light output. However detracting from LED backlights is that they are frequently dimmer than CCFL's, but that will change gradually as the amount of LED's used goes up (but that comes at a very high $$ for now and isn't done much). For now most LED backlights are somewhat dimmer than similar panels using CCFL's.

There are two kinds of LED backlights using white LED's, edgelit and full matrix. Edgelit are cheaper and have compromises in quality (read up on edge lit TV's for some background).

Currently worldwide production of LED's is short of demand for them. So they are going into TV's first (high margin, mid volume products) and eventually will work to monitors.

If we are incredibly lucky we might see one or two white LED 30" monitors in 2010, but they will be few if they even exist by then. 24" might have more prospects in the S-PVA and S-IPS space. But even that is not guaranteed. It's taking time. Patience will be rewarded in this case.
 
TBH, if you want to go cheap, I'd get the LG W3000H. It's $1100 on Newegg, and it's the best 30" I've used.
 
I was hoping Apple might show off a new 30" at the release today; unfortunately nothing.
 
Just my experience with 30" monitors.

I had 2 Dell 3007HC monitors but in my opinion had too much anti-glare which would give a grainy look to the screen.

Sold them and got 2 Samsung 305t monitors which I have been very happy with.
Personally I think the picture quality and color looks better than the Dell 3007 with the IPS type screen plus not as much graininess.
 
boe said:
I was hoping Apple might show off a new 30" at the release today; unfortunately nothing.
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I'm thinking we may see a standalone LED 27" panel like the one in the new imacs before we see a 30" replacement panel. In any case all of the 30's are seeming long in the tooth to me.
 
Don't hold your breath for a new 30" anytime soon - things just don't move in this market. Besides if Dell comes out with a new model it will probably cost an upwards of $2k at launch. The one 30" Apple has on market is the same one from 4-5 years ago..

Until bigger monitors with higher resolutions come out I don't see the price point changing either.

solaris54 said:
Just my experience with 30" monitors.

I had 2 Dell 3007HC monitors but in my opinion had too much anti-glare which would give a grainy look to the screen.

Sold them and got 2 Samsung 305t monitors which I have been very happy with.
Personally I think the picture quality and color looks better than the Dell 3007 with the IPS type screen plus not as much graininess.
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I see this on most IPS monitors, some have it harsher than others. LG puts the coating on so I think depends on what panel revision you have. I have a newer 3008WFP and the coating is much less noticeable than it was on my 3007WFP-HC, which made certain colors like bright green all shimmery. The Samsung 305T is a different panel type (S-PVA IIRC?) so I assume a different kind of coating is used. Either way the coating on my 3008 unit is very unnoticeable, you wouldn't see it unless you're really looking for it.
 
I'm hoping that this year will bring not only a significantly improved 30" but even larger screens that are real computer monitors - not just TVs being used as monitors.
 
I just talked to a new client again looking for something that was either made by dell or apple in this category - shame I have to keep telling them there is nothing new to offer.
 
I was installing a Panasonic G10 for a spare room and decided to hook it to my PC for the heck of it. While gaming on it was great, when I went to browse the web, check e-mail etc, the picture seemed fuzzy and jumpy. I adjusted and tweaked it as much as possible frequency, resolution etc. but I have to admit it just isn't a good substitute for a real monitor if you are relatively close to the display.

Hopefully we'll hear something this coming year as I'd like to get something larger than 30" now that I've been playing games on this plasma TV :)
 
Anemone said:
However detracting from LED backlights is that they are frequently dimmer than CCFL's, but that will change gradually as the amount of LED's used goes up (but that comes at a very high $$ for now and isn't done much). For now most LED backlights are somewhat dimmer than similar panels using CCFL's.
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Really? Everything I have read indicates the opposite, at least for laptop screens.
 
Boe, what do you do that requires 2x 30"? Or is it just for the fun of it? :)

I have a U2410. It is a good screen, but I feel like a U27 would be more for me.
 
3007WFP-HC are the best 30 displays as long as Iyou can get them for $700. Otherwise, it is either LG, HP(same as Dell) or Samsung.
 
Hansen said:
Boe, what do you do that requires 2x 30"? Or is it just for the fun of it? :)

I have a U2410. It is a good screen, but I feel like a U27 would be more for me.
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I thought about getting dual 30"ers, but I like the idea of nearly the same resolution in a smaller package like the u27. My reason? Work and fun! :D
 
Hansen said:
Boe, what do you do that requires 2x 30"? Or is it just for the fun of it? :)

I have a U2410. It is a good screen, but I feel like a U27 would be more for me.
Click to expand...

I can't say that I require them but want them and will by them is a different story.

I do a lot of remote administration and it would be very helpful when comparing firewalls, exchange configs etc. I "NEED" a 30" for gaming :) And why not have matching screens so line per line are at the same height.
 
Don't hold your breath waiting for new 30" designs. I bet 30" 25x16 screens are on the way out.

Manufacturers prefer 16:9 as it is cheaper to produce. I expect 27" 25x14 screen will become the new top of the heap for most. There is significantly less screen area and thus less production cost. They can keep healthy margins while lowering retail price and sell in greater volume.
 
Snowdog, stop pissing on my picnic :)

JK - In my little world though I'd like to believe that they are busy working on 36" screens for computers that scale perfectly to 1080p for movies as well as look perfect as computer displays. Instead of TV screens which look great for movies but crappy for computer monitors.

And no, I won't tell you what color the sky is in my world :)
 
boe said:
Snowdog, stop pissing on my picnic :)

JK - In my little world though I'd like to believe that they are busy working on 36" screens for computers that scale perfectly to 1080p for movies as well as look perfect as computer displays. Instead of TV screens which look great for movies but crappy for computer monitors.

And no, I won't tell you what color the sky is in my world :)
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3840x2400 would be awesome, and scale perfectly to 1920*1200 (close enough to 1920*1080). Would be a very nice one, but at a ridiculous price.
 
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