Defense Grid 2 Kickstarter

[Hornet]

The developers of Hidden Path Entertainment have started a rather interesting Kickstarter project, with the ultimate goal of making Defense Grid 2, in addition to many new contents for the original Defense Grid too (new content, new engine remake, map editor, multiplayer). Its like getting 2 new games.

Kickstarter link:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hiddenpath/defense-grid-2

The base goal is to raise 250k. But the ultimate goal is to reach 1 million to make Defense Grid 2 in a much shorter time frame (more on this later).

Here's how it works:
$250k - Defense Grid: Containment DLC
$500k - New engine for DG2, and DG1 remake, all with multiplayer co-op feature.
$750k - Level editors, additional platofmrs (Linux, Mac)
$1 mil - A full Defense Grid 2 with all mentioned features.

You're getting all of that for only $15. Of course more will always help the project reach Defense Grid 2 sooner, and with all mentioned features.

Exactly what do I get for a $15 pledge? Do I get DG2 if we cross $1m raised?

Yes, for a $15 pledge, you get any digital game content we are able to make with the money raised. If we raise $250k, then you'll get DG:Containment. If we raise $500k, you'll get DG:Containment and the remastered DG1 with multiplayer. If we raise $750k, you'll get DG:Containment, the remastered DG1 with multiplayer, the level editor, and Mac & Linux versions. If we raise $1m you'll get DG:Containment & DG2 for sure, and the community can vote on whether they want us to have us make a remastered DG1 with multiplayer, level editor and Mac & Linux, or just put those resources towards a larger DG2 which will also have multiplayer, level editor and Mac and Linux.

What happens if they don't reach the extended 1 million dollars goal:

And, by the way, we plan on making DG2 someday even if we don't reach the full funding goal here. If we do reach it here, well then that's known, and we're making it and it will happen next year. Nice clean end of story.

If we just get 1/2 way through, say, and reach $500k, we're going to deliver DG:Containment to you, and we're going to deliver the remastered game on the new engine to you as we promise here - we'll work straight on them and deliver them as soon as possible.

And then after that, we'll keep at it, but at a slower pace on our own dime. It may take extra time, it may take us making other games for other people first, but we'll still eventually get to DG2, and when we do, we're not going to forget you. You helped get us there and we'd get you a copy then, but that's a different kind of promise, and we understand that.

Ultimately, I hope we'll reach all the goal, and we can have Defense Grid 2 next year, along with all the features such as level editor and multiplayer. That would be amazing.

 

[Thuleman]

I own Defense Grid and bought it via Steam. I would like to think that I paid $4.99 for it during some sale and I can't really see myself pre-paying $15 just so they can create Linux and Mac versions. I don't see the value in DLCs for the original and frankly I don't see any value in DG2 either.

The implementation of tower defense was decent fun in DG but I don't see the appeal of a DG2, it's played out. I don't see a multiplayer appeal in this at all. To sum this up, I predict fail.

 

[Ryom]

I loved the first one, I will definitely kick in for the development of the second! With the passion they showed for creating the first, I predict win!

 

[96redformula]

The first game was so successful. It blows my mind why they do not have the funding aside for the second one.

 

[Spun Ducky]

A wise man once said never invest your own money. I think that is the essence of kickstarter in general it eliminates the risk from the get go. I wouldn't mind seeing a sequel but I don't give kickstarter a dime ever out of principal.

 

[RanceJustice]

I'm voting in the hopes for a native Linux client. Ever since SkibiTD on War3:FT, I was hoooked on really, really good TDs...and there are only a handful of them out there. Defense Grid is one of them! I put down $55 (for the Silver Backer, Early Bird $75 tier). Lets hope this really busts through and they make the whole million.

Multiplayer would be great - those who can remember some of the old War3 TDs, and a handful of the online standalone multiplayer ones, its really fun! Players need to work together to defend multiple routes and often take different "classes", building towers to reinforce each other. For instance, one class may be really really good at mazing, where another may have really strong single towers, so those two players can work together - mazing with cheap towers and then having the ultra-strong single towers at choke points. Maybe one class builds tower that are especially strong anti-air etc...

 

[FMFixxxer]

I bought DF1 on steam for 15$ or something I think, and It never worked. It didn't support my resolution, it would crash on start up constantly. I've had 3 systems since i bought it, and it's done random shit like that on all of them, even when we tried it on the wifes laptop, just refused to run. All the systems where in primo condition with no problems with any other of my 150 steam games. This is one Kickstarter I won't be contributing to.

 

[DefaultMeh]

Loved the 1st one and backing this one, in for $55

 

[LstBrunnenG]

Up next, Infinity Ward's kickstarter to make MW4.

 

[cageymaru]

Defense Grid 1 was way too much fun. I can't wait for DG2!

 

[fdiaz78]

Any chance we can have a seperate forum for these kickstarters? These KS are starting to annoy.

 

[Hornet]

Any chance we can have a seperate forum for these kickstarters? These KS are starting to annoy.

I see only this thread at the first page at the moment.

I don't supposed you're forced to read every thread listed.

 

[Monkey God]

This hilarious. Back in the day, you made a game, and if people liked it, they bought and you made money. If the game sucked, too bad for the developers! Now developers are like, fuck that noise, you need to give us money first, and the more money we get up front, the better game we will try to make. If sucks, oh well, we still get paid. Taking lessons from the Bankers, huh?

And you Hornet, you sound like a marketing drone for HP entertainment. And yes, all the KS crap is getting annoying, no doubt. But hey, if you people haven't figured out how NOT to be a sucker, go ahead. Part with your money goods unseen, do the developers work for them by being their marketing department.

 

[Hornet]

And you Hornet, you sound like a marketing drone for HP entertainment. And yes, all the KS crap is getting annoying, no doubt. But hey, if you people haven't figured out how NOT to be a sucker, go ahead. Part with your money goods unseen, do the developers work for them by being their marketing department.

I'm just helping them spread the word as a fan of Defense Grid.

This thread wasn't created to support the whole Kickstarter thing or to debate it, and I'm certainly not marching that Kickstarter idea in a juggernaut fashion. I can understand why some of you guys oppose the idea of fan funded projects (in part because I've read them so many times in almost all the Kickstarter threads here ) Of course I personally do like the idea of fan funded projects and I have reasons for that, but that's not the point of this thread.

If there are fans out there who wants to support this project, then I'm just giving them a heads up. For those who strongly oppose the idea of Kickstarter, just ignore it I guess. I'm certainly not going around saying you must support this project or the whole idea of Kickstarter.

 

[RanceJustice]

MG - I think you're missing part of Kickstarter's benefits for gaming funding..

1. If the goal isn't reached, nobody pays. You're not stuck funding a dud - if they basically abscond and try to run with the money or something after meeting their goal, or they simply don't get enough to fund development, you don't pay or you get a refund.
2. At least so far, players are getting something for their investment and its a good value. The vast majority of kickstarter projects, even big ones like for Wasteland 2, are offering their games for cheap. Even if you discount the super special stuff, you can get a $50-60 game for $15-20. Of course, there are often lots of extras included in Kickstarter options that can range from the neat (getting a Founder title on your account etc...) to big business stuff (Being flown out to help develop the game, having your company's logo on the splash screen etc... and more.
3. Often you are funding stuff that may have not gotten off the ground without being bastardized by major publishers. For instance, lots of KS game projects say "If we meet X, we'll promise to make this and our future games with Linux clients". DRM free options is another. There are also gametypes - like space flight simulators or sandbox MMOs: You can have games and features funded that would be unlikely to be funded by AAA cookiecutter Madden+CoD = Money. If I can fund a sci-fi sandbox MMO with a native linux client, no DRM, and get an eternal Platinum level membership (that will cost $100+ at release) and my name on a monument in game, by taking $50 I could spend on Corporate Shooter 2: The Shootening DLC Edition (or wait, I'd need to spend $60 for that today, wouldn't I?) and put it towards something I'm really interested in, that's a bargain for me

Kickstarter isn't like bankers messing with other people's money with no oversight - rather, it is moving the possibility of funding full time game development, even big budget titles, away from the evil empires and making them accountable to the players instead. Looking right here with Defense Grid, this is even showing that veteran game dev teams are putting themselves out there; its not all indie "my first game" stuff. These veteran dev houses, in appearing to want to make the best game they can, would rather have it funded and be accountable by making good on their promises to players, rather than have their continued ability to fund development depend on taking orders from Activision/Ubisoft/EA to monetize the shit out of it, damn everything else. This is a good thing. If it turns out that projects drag on, become vaporware, or have low quality consistently, players will just stop funding. However, so far we haven't seen this.

By next year we shall likely know for sure if this experiment is going to pay off at the AAA level, with many of the biggest titles delivering in 2013, but so far with smaller projects it has already done exceptionally well. THIS is, theoretically, how investment SHOULD work where everyone wins- Devs get paid to make a great product and keep their artistic integrity, backers get a great return on investment in value, bringing to life a product that may never have come to fruition under the original channels.

 

[Monkey God]

I understand if the goal isn't reached, they don't get paid. But what happens when they technically release their game (complete their goal) but their game is a flaming turd? You're gambling that you are going like what they put out. Given the quality of most games nowdays, that's not a good bet.

Meh, Hornet is right. If people think KS projects are lame, just stay out of those threads.

 

[Hornet]

I understand if the goal isn't reached, they don't get paid. But what happens when they technically release their game (complete their goal) but their game is a flaming turd? You're gambling that you are going like what they put out. Given the quality of most games nowdays, that's not a good bet.

You're right. So far I've only supported 2 games, Wasteland 2 and Defense Grid 2, and they both may turn out to be an absolute turd and I would have wasted $100. It is a bet.

What attracted me was the idea of getting the fans involve, which at least for me, is the first time I ever come across such a game development, where the project will be constantly gathering the fans feedback. I'm interested in seeing how it works out.

Of course for a game backed by large publisher where we have absolutely no say in how the game should be, then I wouldn't make such bet either.

 

[Dolor]

In for one (@$30). I loved the first one, and I still needed the Portal-themed DLC, plus I am hoping to get my wife to try out the first game since I got a code for it.

Definitely looking forward to more of this game.

 

[piscian18]

Not to be a dick but aren't these guys are making Counter-strike: Global Offensive for Valve? They should be rolling in dough. Well at any rate Defense Grid is on my list of favorite games of all time so I'll go check it out and see what I can donate.


Edit: Apparently they answer that at the bottom. Valve is paying in peanuts instead of cashews.

Well the enlightenment about Ken Rolston was worth it already. I didn't realize he was responsible for Morrowind and Oblivion. I haven't spent a lot of time on Oblivion but Morrowind is one of my favorite games of all time and for some reason I really despise Skyrim. I'm kinda curious now if it's because he didn't work on it. Makes me want to check out KOA.

 

[JoeUser]

Hey! Me and the bum that lives behind my house are making -insert generic game- and need 1 million dollars too! I'll be making my Kickstarter soon!

I feel that Kickstarter is being way over used for every generic game out there...kinda sad...like people over using welfare or food stamps. Too over saturated.

 

[MavericK]

The first game was so successful. It blows my mind why they do not have the funding aside for the second one.

Agreed. I barely even play these type of games and I even bought DG. What the fuck did they do with all the money?

 

[Spewn]

Agreed. I barely even play these type of games and I even bought DG. What the fuck did they do with all the money?

Maybe they spent it all on tickets to ride the DLC gravy train and it didn't take them as far as they thought it would? Who knows. I don't know how many copies the thing sold but it was always in the top 10 for sales when it went on sale. I don't think I even paid $15 for DG so I'm surely not paying $15 or more in the hopes that DG2 will be worth it. I'll wait, and if it's worth it when it actually releases then I'll buy it.

 

[Monkey God]

Agreed. I barely even play these type of games and I even bought DG. What the fuck did they do with all the money?

Why should they risk their own money when people will fund their next development project for them?

 

[MavericK]

Why should they risk their own money when people will fund their next development project for them?

Lolololol

Yeah, that's exactly why I'm not pitching in for this.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with KS and have pitched in for like 4 games already, but it shouldn't be a replacement for actual development done by companies that have the money to do so. It just comes off as a scam when they do it like this, because they get your money either way and they have no motivation to make the game good.

 

[cageymaru]

From Steam product update page.

Defense Grid update
- NEW: Support for Touchscreen enabled PC’s, Tablets and Ultrabooks - developed in partnership with Intel
New UI interface and icons for touch devices (tower selection bar, fast forward, system menu, etc.)
Automatic switching between different input devices on the fly (mouse / keyboard, controller, touch)
Multi-touch smooth zooming in and out without preset height levels
Drag or tap and place to place towers
New Interface setting for auto detect / touch disabled / touch only options

- FIRST WEEKLY GAME UPDATE OF FIVE: To celebrate the new Defense Grid 2 kickstarter we’ll be updating the game with new content over the next five weeks. This week, we’ve made the following updates to the original Defense Grid:
NEW: Contests button on Main Menu. You can win great prizes from AMD and Razer including Radeon HD 6770 video cards this week. We’ll have weekly giveaways for players who play different maps and modes of the game, new mini-games, and much more.
The new DG2 Kickstarter button on the main menu gives you more info on the DG2 Kickstarter event and takes you directly to the kickstarter page


PCGamer article.

Defense Grid 2 launches Kickstarter, includes Radeon HD 6870 for $325-tier backers.

I don't want to copy / paste another man's work but read the link above for information on the "free" videocard for backers. Neat to see AMD and Razer supplying swag for the backers of the game.

 

[MavericK]

I like how they call a button to enter contests and a button to donate to their KS for DG2 "new content".

We'll see what other "new content" they come out with though, I guess.

 

[Forceman]

Wait, so they have the backing of Razer and AMD (to the tune of free 6870 cards) and they are still shaking the can for handouts?

I liked Defense Grid, but not quite enough to help them out with an interest free loan on the chance that they don't lose enthusiasm for the project sometime next year and release some crap-ball. I thought the idea of Kickstarter was for unknowns/poorly capitalized people to be able to make something they otherwise couldn't, not for established companies to reduce their borrowing costs. What's next - a Kickstarter for Exxon's new oil field development project (free gas for a year at the $1 million level!)?

 

[MavericK]

Wait, so they have the backing of Razer and AMD (to the tune of free 6870 cards) and they are still shaking the can for handouts?

I liked Defense Grid, but not quite enough to help them out with an interest free loan on the chance that they don't lose enthusiasm for the project sometime next year and release some crap-ball. I thought the idea of Kickstarter was for unknowns/poorly capitalized people to be able to make something they otherwise couldn't, not for established companies to reduce their borrowing costs. What's next - a Kickstarter for Exxon's new oil field development project (free gas for a year at the $1 million level!)?

Agreed. The whole thing stinks to high heaven IMO. It's like if EA came out with a Kickstarter to fund Call of Duty: MW4 or some shit. It doesn't really make sense.

Kickstarter makes sense for lesser-known developers or developers who have been "out of the game" for awhile, but want to make a new crowd-sourced title, maybe in a genre that has fallen out of mainstream favor.

 

[Monkey God]

I thought the idea of Kickstarter was for unknowns/poorly capitalized people to be able to make something they otherwise couldn't, not for established companies to reduce their borrowing costs. What's next - a Kickstarter for Exxon's new oil field development project (free gas for a year at the $1 million level!)?

You win one internetz!

BTW, We have that already, its called buying stocks.

 

[TwistedAegis]

BTW, We have that already, its called buying stocks.

And that brings up a great point. The traditional fundraising model gives those providing capital a return on said capital. I understand that the "return" here is the game itself, but I think that this model is very favorable to the producers rather than the capital.

 

[piscian18]

Agreed. The whole thing stinks to high heaven IMO. It's like if EA came out with a Kickstarter to fund Call of Duty: MW4 or some shit. It doesn't really make sense.

Kickstarter makes sense for lesser-known developers or developers who have been "out of the game" for awhile, but want to make a new crowd-sourced title, maybe in a genre that has fallen out of mainstream favor.

They already said they couldn't get publisher funding. Not like EA at all.

 

[fdiaz78]

Wait, so they have the backing of Razer and AMD (to the tune of free 6870 cards) and they are still shaking the can for handouts?

I liked Defense Grid, but not quite enough to help them out with an interest free loan on the chance that they don't lose enthusiasm for the project sometime next year and release some crap-ball. I thought the idea of Kickstarter was for unknowns/poorly capitalized people to be able to make something they otherwise couldn't, not for established companies to reduce their borrowing costs. What's next - a Kickstarter for Exxon's new oil field development project (free gas for a year at the $1 million level!)?

Great point. The reason I commented earlier about getting annoyed by all these KS's is developers are starting to use them instead of traditional means of funding with no real risk or incentive to make a good product. Sure you got some indie gems out there but if a project cannot get funding from publishers or they don't want to use their own money and have some "skin in the game" then maybe its not worth it. There are already tons of crap PC games out.

 

[fdiaz78]

You win one internetz!

BTW, We have that already, its called buying stocks.

Yep and you get to keep the stocks and the yummy dividends over time

 

[cageymaru]

At least these guys have an established name, company, recent grade A previous work, etc. And they have some support from AMD, Intel, and Razer. If they can't get the funding to do a second game from an established publisher then where else are they to go but the people that bought the game previously and avenues like Kickstarter? If they get their funding then good for them. if they don't then their fan base just missed out. If they don't have a fan base then failing on the Kickstarter is what is supposed to happen.

I'm not trying to guilt trip anyone into supporting anything, but at least don't make up stuff off the top of your head where a million dollars to fund DG2 can come from at the snap of their fingers as I'm sure that they explored those avenues also.

I like Indie studios that stay as independent as possible. Would be sad if they had to get swallowed by UBISOFT or EA for funding.

 

[MavericK]

They already said they couldn't get publisher funding. Not like EA at all.

Didn't they make money on the first game, though? That's what doesn't make sense to me.

Also, it's a little misleading in that 250k Kickstarter "success" only means DLC for the first game, basically.

 

[piscian18]

Didn't they make money on the first game, though? That's what doesn't make sense to me.

Also, it's a little misleading in that 250k Kickstarter "success" only means DLC for the first game, basically.

according to them they priced it too low and didn't make a lot of money off of it.

Yeah, not so hot on the model. I mean they plan to make the game whether the kickstarter makes any money or not. They should have just asked for 250k and ended it at that.

At the end of the day there's factors for and against this.

Pros

1. Defensive Grid was a 9/10 universally, It was well supported. The expansions were reasonably priced. They took a risk and made a game that's not a standard commodity because they actually care. These guys are in the "good guy" Developer basket.

2. You're paying these guys so they don't have to go to some skeazy publisher for money probably in trade for the IP. Thats the whole prerogative of this kickstarter campaign. Keeping Publishers filthy mitts off the games.

Cons

They aren't giving us a good enough explanation for their lack of funding. Where'd the DG1 money go? Why doesn't Valve front them such a piddly amount? Valve makes a million a day and claims to be on serious buddy buddy terms with them.

Why did you choose Hidden path to make Cs:go?

Newell -"We liked working with them and their office is next door to ours."

My curiosity is currently out weighing my interest in donating despite the fact that this is a legitimate developer and a good cause. That's a shame and if they would open up more I'd be happy to donate.

 

[Ryom]

What exactly is wrong with a developer that has PROVEN then can make a good game and support it properly asking for funding from fans for a sequel? That is exactly how a Kickstarter plan should work. Take a small project, show you can deliver the goods and then use your reputation to acquire funding for your next game so you don't become beholden to some suits at Publisher Co™.

The fans then have some input into the development of the game and also have some confidence they aren't dealing with shady hucksters. Get a grip people! This is a great development for gamers!

 

[Forceman]

The fans then have some input into the development of the game and also have some confidence they aren't dealing with shady hucksters. Get a grip people! This is a great development for gamers!

If by great development you mean pushing the financial risk to the gamers instead of the developers, then yes, great development for gamers.

Before - developer/publisher fronts money, game sucks and doesn't sell, developer/publisher loses money.

Now - gamers front the money, game sucks and doesn't sell, developer/publisher loses nothing (but reputation, maybe).

People complain to no end about developers releasing unfinished games when the developers have a financial risk of the game sucking - how much incentive will they have to polish the game if they've already been paid? That risk of loss is great for concentration - why do you think companies don't pay employees upfront?

 

[Godmachine]

So if they get $1 Million , we get a sequel and if they don't we get some add-ons and patches for the original.

I'm I the only one bothered by a Kickstarter than promises the actual content advertised for ONLY if its 3 times as much as the actual Kickstarter is asking for?

I find that misleading. Don't call it a Defense Grid 2 Kickstarter and then list it as a "maybe" if you actually raise 3 times the required amount. For that reason alone I think I'll pass. Put the actual number you need developers , don't tease the possibility like that ..its lame.

 

[Ocellaris]

*excitedly clicked the link...*
*immediately disappointed*

MG - I think you're missing part of Kickstarter's benefits for gaming funding..

1. If the goal isn't reached, nobody pays. You're not stuck funding a dud - if they basically abscond and try to run with the money or something after meeting their goal, or they simply don't get enough to fund development, you don't pay or you get a refund.

This isn't true, because if they reach the $250K goal and nothing more, people just get a DG1 DLC pack (that may already be completed for all we know). If they get $500K, they create a new engine that they will later use commercially, and people get a DG remake (who cares?). For $750K, they release a level editor and ANOTHER DLC pack...

People are throwing money into this to get DG2, which requires a full $1 million. This isn't a Kickstarter for DG2, its a KS to help Gearbox Software. Gearbox claims everyone's money at $250K, but people only get what they want if $1 million is reached. Investors get pretty fucked at $500K, because they are basically paying Gearbox to design a new game engine, then use that engine on a product Gearbox will finish developing and then sell to them.

So if they get $1 Million , we get a sequel and if they don't we get some add-ons and patches for the original.

I'm I the only one bothered by a Kickstarter than promises the actual content advertised for ONLY if its 3 times as much as the actual Kickstarter is asking for?

I find that misleading. Don't call it a Defense Grid 2 Kickstarter and then list it as a "maybe" if you actually raise 3 times the required amount. For that reason alone I think I'll pass. Put the actual number you need developers , don't tease the possibility like that ..its lame.

Yeah this is a pretty bullshit KS.

Everyone wants to think that all these game they invest in will turn out to be freaking awesome titles that will blow everyone away, but that won't be the reality. People should consider how many shitty games get released compared to good ones.