DCS World 2.9 (Digital Combat Simulator)

Blackstone said:
Looks like FC3 is no longer on Steam. Not sure why.
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You can buy the planes individually but the price will be higher. I believe that is because they planned on having Flaming Cliffs 2024 out but the update got delayed and I assume putting up the old listing page on Steam takes some effort. If you buy from their own store you can get it for $25 still, and you'll get $2.50 in store credit. You can put that towards the FC 2024 upgrade which would be $7.50. Most DCS store products have "MIles", and 1000 Miles = $1 in store credit. You get around 25,000 Miles for FC3.

For the cheap HOTAS... I heard good things about them for entry level controllers but if you plan on using it long term you may want to spend more. My $130 X52Pro has lasted over a decade though some of the buttons are getting loose. I think they charge $200 for it now. These days I think VKB and some other brand that is not Thrustmaster (cannot recall the brand) are the preferred choices.


I recently bought the JF-17 and F-14, and that gives me enough Miles to get FC 2024 for free I believe.
 
Flaming Cliffs 2024 is up for sale. Price is $60, $10 more. Not sure if it is still on sale for 50% off though. As of now Flaming Cliffs 3 cannot be purchased and has been replaced with FC 2024, so if you didn't own FC3 previously you need to get FC 2024. I see the $9.99 upgrade available for me, and spent my miles on it from my JF-17 & F-14 purchase during the sale. Ended up getting FC 2024 upgrade for free and still have 380 Miles left.

I'm sure FC 2024 will go on sale eventually, but not sure if it would go for 50% off anytime soon. Maybe 30-40% off.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_dXggNCSW8

Concise explanation of what it is:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw860xxUfgw


New launcher is out. You can choose graphic settings, manage files, and whatnot. I think possibly mods as well.
 
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Flogger23m said:
Flaming Cliffs 2024 is up for sale. Price is $60, $10 more. Not sure if it is still on sale for 50% off though. As of now Flaming Cliffs 3 cannot be purchased and has been replaced with FC 2024, so if you didn't own FC3 previously you need to get FC 2024. I see the $9.99 upgrade available for me, and spent my miles on it from my JF-17 & F-14 purchase during the sale. Ended up getting FC 2024 upgrade for free and still have 380 Miles left.

I'm sure FC 2024 will go on sale eventually, but not sure if it would go for 50% off anytime soon. Maybe 30-40% off.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_dXggNCSW8

Concise explanation of what it is:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw860xxUfgw


New launcher is out. You can choose graphic settings, manage files, and whatnot. I think possibly mods as well.
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I’m so playing this, but I need to figure out how to deal with HOTAS from the couch.

I’ll probably move my rig to my office after I redo it. The trailer looks epic.

I’m not worried about the price but the logistics of playing from the couch are challenging.
 
Blackstone said:
I’m so playing this, but I need to figure out how to deal with HOTAS from the couch.

I’ll probably move my rig to my office after I redo it. The trailer looks epic.

I’m not worried about the price but the logistics of playing from the couch are challenging.
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Couch playing is probably not doing to work with a HOTAS. Works for gamepad, but not well for something with the range of motion and something static like a HOTAS or wheel. Fancy setup aside, you'll end up with throttle on left, keyboard in center, stick on right, and mouse to the right of the stick most likely. For the FC planes you can get by without much keyboard input but you'll still need it. Generally most people map flight controls and combat controls to stick and throttle, but for things like landing gear, opening the cockpit and whatnot that is still a keyboard function. For the full fidelity planes mouse clicking as well.

If price is not a problem, get a proper HOTAS. My X52 Pro is not the greatest build quality but lasted over a decade and I still use it today. VKB seems to be the preference these days.

Once you have all of that, you can look into either Track IR or Grass Monkey's version for less money. That is for head tracking (looking around the cockpit). You can also look into VR but that is more expensive and very VRAM demanding. I have not tried head tracking yet, but you will probably either want head tracking or VR if you really get into it. I got a VR headset and can't go back to using mouse/hat switch to look around.

For the modules themselves you can either get them of ED's webstore or Steam. You cannot use the Steam keys for the non-Steam version though. Generally the preference is to get everything on ED's store as you can use the Miles/store credit. Sometimes the Steam version lags a bit with module releases and patches if I am not mistaken.


I played FC 2024 today with the F-5E. Very easy plane to fly. Under powered and limited weapons, but very forgiving.
 
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LurkerLito said:
Just going to put this here for using a controller in DCS. I have to give this a try one day. I just don't like pulling out my old Cougar HOTAS to hook it up just to play DCS because by the time I am done setting it up, I end up barely playing the game and have to put it all away again.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zy_P-EhjPo
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I may need to start this way, but I really want a Thrustmaster Warthog bundle. I’m sure my four year old would appreciate it too!
 
Blackstone said:
I may need to start this way, but I really want a Thrustmaster Warthog bundle. I’m sure my four year old would appreciate it too!
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I keep hearing that people don't recommend the Warthog anymore. Expensive and I suppose the build quality is not that good compared to VKB? But the feel is great as it has a metal exterior. If you're looking for an A-10 replica stick and throttle though, that would be the best to get.
 
Flogger23m said:
I keep hearing that people don't recommend the Warthog anymore. Expensive and I suppose the build quality is not that good compared to VKB? But the feel is great as it has a metal exterior. If you're looking for an A-10 replica stick and throttle though, that would be the best to get.
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I’ll look at VKB as well.
 
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Using the F-5 to shoot things down. What I don't like is this is a very specific factory configuration F-5E which could only carry 2 missiles. It seems like almost every country who bought them added wiring for two more missiles to increase capacity to 4. I will need to look into a mod that would allow us to carry the extra 2.


There are also whales.


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More importantly, someone is making lots of detailed structures for free which were added to the game officially. Many watch towers, vehicle shelters, tent types & more. Now there is enough military structures to make proper ground bases.


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Which reminded me, I made a fictional RAF skin for the F-5E many years back. It was officially added to the game a long time ago. You can find it under "No.29 Squadron" under the skin selection tab in the mission editor. So now I can finally use it myself now that I have a flyable F-5.

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Blackstone said:
I may need to start this way, but I really want a Thrustmaster Warthog bundle. I’m sure my four year old would appreciate it too!
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Don't get me wrong, Full HOTAS is the way to go especially if you are into space/flight sims. I am just trying to use the controller now because of convenience. I can't have my HOTAS (or my driving wheel) connected all the time mainly because of space reasons and shifting game preferences. When I was playing flight sims a lot was mainly back in the Falcon 4.0 days when it came out, but now setting up a HOTAS on my desk with peddles is a hassle for the time I put into the games.

That said I did just purchase the Grass Monkey Tracking system that won't ship till the 23rd. I think I will prefer the head tracking setup over VR in this game and in race sims, again simply because of convenience. I can keep it connected all the time then just put on the headset and grab the controller and start since it doesn't take up much space. I am finding that these days easy to jump into the game using a KB/M or Controller is more important to me.

Blackstone said:
I’ll look at VKB as well.
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I haven't tried VKB but I did look at them for a little while when I was thinking about replacing my Thrustmaster Cougar with something else a while back. I definitely love the idea they don't use the old POTs system now, and bang for the buck plus all the attachment options they offer as accessories is something I'd consider if I could justify getting it somehow. :)
 
LurkerLito said:
That said I did just purchase the Grass Monkey Tracking system that won't ship till the 23rd. I think I will prefer the head tracking setup over VR in this game and in race sims, again simply because of convenience. I can keep it connected all the time then just put on the headset and grab the controller and start since it doesn't take up much space.
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I am thinking of getting one as well. I am worried about getting a stiff/sore neck with it, but it certainly has some advantages. Quest 2 works decently for DCS and there are better headsets that can avoid some issues, but there are just some annoying things with VR. Strapping it on your face can get mildly uncomfortable, when it is a hot day, the VR headset gets hot. The Quest 2 also has a fan so when it gets hot I hear a low fan noise but that tends to only be on hotter days. Strapping it on, loading up the software is also annoying. When I make a mission I make it without the headset on, but then need to restart the game when I want to fly. Just small annoyances like that that more time when you have 1-2 hours. But the depth and "3D effect" certainly has some advantages. Going back to flying with my PC screen makes it look flat.

But the annoyances (software, taking it on/off when you need to get up) often add up. I suppose if you really get into flight sims, you can get both and use them when desired which is what I am thinking of doing. I think the Grass Monkey was $65 in the past, now it is $85. Still not that much so I am thinking of it.

uOpt said:
On my secondary "rig" (a laptop) I have a Logitech with twist for rudders https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/space/extreme-3d-pro-joystick.963290-0403.html
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One of the main reasons I have kept my X52 Pro. It has a twist stick for rudders.


F-14 is a bit hard but the back seater can do most of the radar work. I shot down 6 planes in quick succession. I use TWS Auto. Without really looking up exactly what it does, from what I recall, it automatically locks onto a target and then automatically assigns a new target after you launch your first missile.


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I’ve had multiple sticks with rudders. A Logitech, a Microsoft and a Saitek. They all developed a drift with the rudder but when operational they were ideal. Pretty sure I played BF1942 with a stick, maybe even BF2.

Assuming I got into DCS, what is the average mission time? Do I need hours to do anything in this game?

I’m thinking this will be a good game to play with my son when he is a little older. Would love to get a little sim pod thing with the seat. Wife would murder me!
 
uOpt said:
On my secondary "rig" (a laptop) I have a Logitech with twist for rudders https://www.logitechg.com/en-us/products/space/extreme-3d-pro-joystick.963290-0403.html

It most certainly is good enough for flying around until you figure out whether you want to make a bigger investment in DCS.

I also prefer to leave things on the keyboard instead of remapping a lot of things to the HOTAS' left side. Easier to remember.
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I had that 3D Pro WAY back in the day. It was unreliable in my experience. Maybe they fixed it.
 
Blackstone said:
Are any sticks plug and play or do i have to map every button?
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By default most functions are not programmed on my X52 Pro and I assume that is true for most HOTAS. You can look up profiles and download them from other users. They are .lau files if I am not mistaken. Some people map out all of the functions (like with the Xbox controller above) visually, and you can download their input file so you can use that and have something visual to reference. Each plane requires everything to be mapped, but generally once you do a few you'll figure out the basic controls and can mimic them.

You can drag/drop the files here:

C:\Users\USER NAME k\Saved Games\DCS\Config\Input

Keyboard controls are of course mapped for regular QWERTY layouts.


Mission length varies. The default game does not really come with much missions, and if they do they might be out dated as the game is updated frequently so they may have bugs. You will likely be using the mission editor. You can make very complex scenarios or quicker action things, like spawning in the air, at close range, and whatnot. That is typically what I do. The mission editor is intuitive and flexible enough. You can also download missions other users make of course. So the time they take is really unknown. If you make quicker, less realistic missions like myself, 20-40 minutes is typical.

But you'll be using the mission editor a lot. It is like ArmA in that you spend time making scenarios. I haven't played a pre-done mission in... well over a decade.
 
Blackstone said:
Actually took down some baddies with the FrogFoot today! 👍🏻
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It seems like the thermal pod is not working for the Su-25T. That is the one you load on the bottom center, large pod. Worked better for target ID and missiles.
 
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The Frogfoot flies like a pig with wings! I was able to dumb bomb some trucks. Pretty limited. I’d really like to try the F16, but that is full fidelity.

If I got say an F16, F-18 or F14, and I started airborn, assuming I was willing to expend some reasonable time to learn, could I do anything fun with those planes or are the controls just too complicated without intense study.

My concern is that I’m really not a big fan of the F15 that comes with flaming clips, I really do not wanna fly Russian aircraft or Chinese aircraft.
 
Blackstone said:
If I got say an F16, F-18 or F14, and I started airborn, assuming I was willing to expend some reasonable time to learn, could I do anything fun with those planes[...]
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No :)

DCS is not about "reasonable".
 
Blackstone said:
Seriously? So low fidelity planes or nothing?
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Nah, the low fidelity planes are kinda lame. Better to fly IL-2 in that case.

You just have to invest unreasonable amounts of effort into the mid- and high fidelity DCS planes.

Having said that, the F-18 has a reasonable user interface. But it flies like a pregnant milk cow.

The Mirage F1 is at the edge of simplicity due to age and having nice toys. I like it.
 
Learn to like the F-15. It is very fast, has a lot of fuel, decent amount of missiles and can turn quite well for being such a large plane.

For the F-16 and F-18 you can easily learn the basics and use limited functions, which is what I do. Spawn them in the air, or if on the ground select "Parking Hot". The only thing you will need to do is uncheck the master arm switch. For some reason the Mirage 2000C and F-14, even when spawning in the air, require you to click off the master arm switch though. F-16 an F-18 don't, so that seems to be a bit inconsistent between planes.

For the F-18 air to air missiles are easy to use, AGM-65 (anti tank) are easy to use, and HARMs (anti SAM) are easy to use. Likewise for unguided bombs/rockets. For the HARM you can use TOO (target of opportunity) where it gives you a list of up to 6 enemy radars to track and shoot at. Anti ship missiles and cruise missiles are harder.

For the F-16 air to air missiles are easy to use, AGM-65 (anti tank) are easy to use. Likewise for unguided bombs/rockets. HARMs require a bit more to do.

The F-16 is faster, the F-18 is slower. But the F-18 can carry more air to air missiles, double the amount (12 vs 6). I recommend both.

JF-17 is also nice if you're okay with Chinese/Pakistani. Computers are newer, though like the F-15 it does not have helmet targetting for short range missiles. Otherwise it works quite similarly, though a bit under powered compared to the F-16. HARMs are easy to use, but more limited compared to the F-18. But easy to use, unlike the F-16.

Mirage 2000C is okay but limited, if you like European planes. This is more similar to an original F-16 from the 1980s rather than the newer Mirage 2000-5/9 (which are like the newer F-16s).

F-14 is more complex as a lot of the functions are in the back seat. You can command your back seater to do things for you. For air to air missiles the simplest thing is to order him to do TWS auto. The screen and screen location are hard to read, and you won't be able to select targets manually but you will generally hit things in front of you. For more complex work you'll need to jump back and forth between the seats which is a bit annoying and not realistic. The plane is designed to be used by two people. When it comes to flight it is not as forgiving as the F-15, F-16, F-18, JF-17 or Mirage 2000. Dog fighting is easy to use missiles but again you don't get a full HUD like the newer planes.


The F-15E is work in progress, and apparently that works well with a single person as does the real plane. You can do most if not all the functions from the front, unlike the F-14. The problem is it is still early access with more work to be done and the developer, Razbam, is having issues with Eagle Dynamics. There is a chance they may stop development on all of their modules and leave DCS. ED has released a bug fix for it recently but who knows how development will go if Razbam leaves, if it will ever get completed or not.


TLDR:

F-16, F-18 and JF-17 are probably your best bets.

Blackstone said:
How often do they have sales? I really blew it missing the summer sale.
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They'll probably have one in a few months, and then again in winter.
 
The low fidelity F-15C sure flys well, that much is true. Snappiest plane in the game except the user mod A-4 Skyhawk.

AGM-65 being easy doesn't quite vibe with me, but different people have different levels of what they consider easy.
 
uOpt said:
The low fidelity F-15C sure flys well, that much is true. Snappiest plane in the game except the user mod A-4 Skyhawk.

AGM-65 being easy doesn't quite vibe with me, but different people have different levels of what they consider easy.
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F-15C, F-18 and F-16C, purely from flight perspectives are probably the most forgiving. Blackstone, I would recommend flying with the F-15C more if you're into air to air. From a simplicity and pure performance standpoint there is little better in the game. Going back to the Mirage 2000C as an example, the electronics, weapon employment and radar is so much more dated and un-ergonomic. The difference between the 1980s variants of planes to the late 90s-2000 variants are quite massive. If you're into air to ground, A-10A and F-18C are probably the best, followed up by F-16.

AGM-65 is very easy for the F-18 (AGM-65F, laser) and A-10A (AGM-65D, IR). A-10C is essentially the same if I recall. Really I just steer them onto the target and it snaps with near perfect accuracy. The F-16 on the other hand seems to be harder for the AGM-65D to snap onto target, and the slewing controls seem more sluggish. Still not too hard but I can ID, zoom around, lock and shoot at targets much faster in the F-18 than the F-16.

JF-17 slew speed is even worse, and I find the higher magnification to be too high with such a slow slew speed. But once launched, its Maverick like missile can turn sharper. Not that big of an advantage for anti tank, but for close in/off angle shots it works well. Too bad it can only carry two anti tank missiles.
 
I don’t think Flaming Cliffs is worth $60.00. I will snap up Flaming Cliffs or maybe just the A10 and F15 at the next sale.

They need to package this content better and make it more accessible to newcomers. There should be more tutorial content, more premade missions, more streamlining. I don’t have time to learn the planes and make the missions, ect.

My recollection of the sims of old, from Graphsim, Falcon, Janes, ect, was the missions were all preloaded.
 
Blackstone said:
I don’t think Flaming Cliffs is worth $60.00. I will snap up Flaming Cliffs or maybe just the A10 and F15 at the next sale.

They need to package this content better and make it more accessible to newcomers. There should be more tutorial content, more premade missions, more streamlining. I don’t have time to learn the planes and make the missions, ect.

My recollection of the sims of old, from Graphsim, Falcon, Janes, ect, was the missions were all preloaded.
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Generally it goes on sale for $25 or so, I assume it will go on sale for $30. F-15/A-10 will be around $7.50 each, so IMO may as well get the whole pack for $10-15 more. Tutorials can be found on youtube. Grim Reaper videos are nice as they show the function assignments. Making missions don't really need to take that long. You can just place a few enemy fighters, spawn them in intervals (example, at 7 minutes another enemy flight will spawn).

Then you can always load up the mission and change cloud/time of day and use a different plane and it will play semi differently.

You can download missions but I think people who generally post them tend to do more realistic missions rather than quicker spawn in the air type of scenarios.
 
Flogger23m said:
Generally it goes on sale for $25 or so, I assume it will go on sale for $30. F-15/A-10 will be around $7.50 each, so IMO may as well get the whole pack for $10-15 more. Tutorials can be found on youtube. Grim Reaper videos are nice as they show the function assignments. Making missions don't really need to take that long. You can just place a few enemy fighters, spawn them in intervals (example, at 7 minutes another enemy flight will spawn).

Then you can always load up the mission and change cloud/time of day and use a different plane and it will play semi differently.

You can download missions but I think people who generally post them tend to do more realistic missions rather than quicker spawn in the air type of scenarios.
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$25-30 would be ok. What is the best looking terrain pack?
 
Flogger23m said:
I am thinking of getting one as well. I am worried about getting a stiff/sore neck with it, but it certainly has some advantages. Quest 2 works decently for DCS and there are better headsets that can avoid some issues, but there are just some annoying things with VR. Strapping it on your face can get mildly uncomfortable, when it is a hot day, the VR headset gets hot. The Quest 2 also has a fan so when it gets hot I hear a low fan noise but that tends to only be on hotter days. Strapping it on, loading up the software is also annoying. When I make a mission I make it without the headset on, but then need to restart the game when I want to fly. Just small annoyances like that that more time when you have 1-2 hours. But the depth and "3D effect" certainly has some advantages. Going back to flying with my PC screen makes it look flat.

But the annoyances (software, taking it on/off when you need to get up) often add up. I suppose if you really get into flight sims, you can get both and use them when desired which is what I am thinking of doing. I think the Grass Monkey was $65 in the past, now it is $85. Still not that much so I am thinking of it.
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Just to follow up, I got my IR tracker the Puck version with the 240hz version camera. You may or may not need the higher sampling rate, but according to what I read, it is recommended if you play farther than 35" from the camera to get the 240hz version vs the 60hz, I sit at around 30" but if I hook up my driving wheel I sit farther back around 36-40 so I went for the higher sampling rate. The 240 hz works fine close up at around 30". I only got to try it for a short while because I could only use it at night. To my surprise I forgot there is a window right behind me that is visible and it was messing up the tracking, so till my blackout curtain comes I won't be able to really use it till night without a kludge fix (I taped a piece of a cardboard box to my chair headrest to block the camera from seeing the leaking day light, it wasn't pretty lol). Tried it in DCS and Assetto Corsa Competizone, and it worked well with both I need to do a bunch more tweaks to make it feel better, but the defaults I got from the grass monkey site worked decently well. I didn't use the opentracker software from the grass monkey site, I used the latest from the github which now has a 64bit version. The weirdest part is the keeping your eyes pointed forward while moving your head, once you get use to it, it feels oddly normal. Since I am a glasses person, looking down is weird because if I look down sometimes the button I want is outside my glasses fov cause they slide down my nose over time to a comfortable position.

The only issue I had was the head band. It doesn't work for me at all, but it isn't grass monkey's fault I just have a large head and have had trouble buying hats and helmets. The head band does go on my head but won't stay most of the time and even if when it did in certain spots, it was too tight for me that I couldn't stand it for more than a few seconds. Instead I found an old MP3 player adjustable velcro strap and it worked as a head band. The velcro half of the tape I put on the puck stuck fine to the strap.

Uses of the IR tracker seem limited. It works for DC and ACC but other things like Forza 4 and Ace Combat 7 don't. I was looking around and there are some ways around it but I didn't get to try any out. But at least in DCS and ACC it definitely feels better with the ir tracker than without, and is much simpler and cooler (especially now in the summer) than strapping on the VR face warmer headset. In ACC I seemed to make turns a whole lot better and in DCS there was (so far) no nausea feelings cropping up that happens in VR.
 
Blackstone said:
$25-30 would be ok. What is the best looking terrain pack?
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The most popular seem to be Syria and Persian Gulf. Those are good choices because you'll likely find more missions to download for them. Syria looks great. PG is an older map so it often goes on sale for $25 or so. Syria I paid $32 or so for it a few years back. It includes all of Syria, Cyprus, Lebanon, northern Israel, northern Jordan, southern Turkey and air bases in Iraq.

There is also Sinai, which was actually cheaper than Syria in the last sale. I don't have it, but it includes most of Egypt (well, where the people live anyways) and has some overlap with Syria in that it includes southern Israel and Jordan and seemingly both maps will have the same towns/air bases.

Nevada can be had for $25 on sale, and I actually like it though it is the 2nd oldest map in the game, it sill looks decent. No naval missions will be possible but I like the map.

Kola, which I don't have, will be popular as it is not a desert map and has northern Sweden/Finland and maybe will expand to a bit of Russia.

I bought South Atlantic, and it looks nice now but it has few airfields and only one air base, one the Falkland Islands. It also seems to run at lower frame rates and has more texture load.

I am interested in the upcoming Iraq but will probably get that on sale a few years down the line.


They are also working on a Dynamic Campaign system, who knows when it will be ready, probably a few years out. So that can help if you don't want to download/make missions.

LurkerLito said:
Just to follow up, I got my IR tracker the Puck version with the 240hz version camera. You may or may not need the higher sampling rate, but according to what I read, it is recommended if you play farther than 35" from the camera to get the 240hz version vs the 60hz, I sit at around 30" but if I hook up my driving wheel I sit farther back around 36-40 so I went for the higher sampling rate. The 240 hz works fine close up at around 30". I only got to try it for a short while because I could only use it at night. To my surprise I forgot there is a window right behind me that is visible and it was messing up the tracking
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I am typically 30" or so, so I assume the 60hz would be fine? I know windows to the outside with light bleeding in can cause problems, but would glass a door with glass windows/reflections cause issues (leads to another room so not much external light bleed)?

And do they ever run any sales?

LurkerLito said:
and is much simpler and cooler (especially now in the summer) than strapping on the VR face warmer headset.
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Part of the reason I am looking at it. I am sure VR is the overall more immersive experience, but it can get quite uncomfortable now that it is summer.
 
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Flogger23m said:
I am typically 30" or so, so I assume the 60hz would be fine? I know windows to the outside with light bleeding in can cause problems, but would glass a door with glass windows/reflections cause issues (leads to another room so not much external light bleed)?
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I think the 60hz will be fine.

I am not sure if reflections would cause it but I would assume so if the reflected light is direct sunlight. The current shade on the window visible to the camera has a pull down kind and it is not meant for blackout so I am getting this for the window: https://www.amazon.com/Boviluxe-Blackout-Curtains-Portable-Temporary/dp/B0D3H8T7CD that way I can remove it at will if I need to.

Flogger23m said:
And do they ever run any sales?
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I don't know I haven't really looked into the IR stuff since I got my VR headset, I only really started re-looking into it recently because the VR Headset was so uncomfortable when I put it on the other day when it was hot.
 
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Okay so Thrustmaster T.16000M or VKB Gladiator as my first stick? I'm getting more sucked into this everyday just with the Frogfoot. My primary concern is long term viability of in particular the twist function which in my experience goes to crap quickly. I haven't used a stick in 15 years, however.
 
Blackstone said:
Okay so Thrustmaster T.16000M or VKB Gladiator as my first stick? I'm getting more sucked into this everyday just with the Frogfoot. My primary concern is long term viability of in particular the twist function which in my experience goes to crap quickly. I haven't used a stick in 15 years, however.
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That looks to be $150 on Amazon currently. Looks... over priced for lower tier build quality. I recall that used to be $100. Inflation and whatnot happened, but still seems pricey for it. Personally I would lean towards the VKB stick and throttle. If you think you'll be playing this a lot or will play other flight/space sims, I would go for the VKB stick and throttle. VKB Gladiator has twist, and it seems like a good build quality. My X52 Pro twist still works great, though it used to be $130 or so back when I bought it.

For the Su-25T they recently updated and made the "thermal" pod more realistic. Apparently it was not a thermal pod, it is a low light pod. So you use it in low light (but not night). So if you're flying at dawn/dusk use it. Shame because I much preferred that over the built in optical pod. Good news is, that thing was extremely heavy and had so much drag. So now I can just fly without it most of the time.
 
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Lol is it possible to break the frogfoot just by flying it wrong? I seem to keep busting it.

I really want a VKB Gunfighter Ultimate but feel guilty spending that much on a controller. If it is built to last I could justify it….maybe.
 
Blackstone said:
Lol is it possible to break the frogfoot just by flying it wrong? I seem to keep busting it.
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Yes, quite easily. Especially if it is loaded with those obscenely large missiles. Are you using the Su-25T? It flies like a pig compared to the Su-25A, but has much better weaponry and a HUD. You can do it with other planes as well but the Su-25T is more likely to. As a general rule, F-15, F-16 and F-18 can do heavy sustained turns without much risk. Same for the JF-17 and Mirage 2000. Modern fast fighters are more resilient than older planes and ground attack planes.

Blackstone said:
I really want a VKB Gunfighter Ultimate but feel guilty spending that much on a controller. If it is built to last I could justify it….maybe.
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I have no experience with it, but that seems to be the preference. You can also look into the VKB Gladiator, which is less than half the price. I'm not sure why the price difference is that large but it seems like a good middle ground.

There is also the X52 Pro, now made by Logitech, at $200. Mine Saitek one still works good and build quality is better than bottom of the barrel but also not the greatest (some buttons are loose). Been using it for around 12-13 years though. Some people recommend the X52 Pro stick and the TM T.16000m throttle but I don't think you can get the X52 Pro stick stand alone. X52 quality control has been up and down over the years, no idea how Logitech is doing with them.

Seems like a VKB setup will set you back $325 at the minimum. That is pricey, but it seems like a good deal compared to the TM T.16000m. If I have my models correct, that felt very cheaply made.
 
I did a trial of the F16, F18 and Warthog. I understand the basics of flight from old sims. The F16 handles the best, but I can tell the Hornet will be easier to learn.

I find the higher fidelity more appealing, especially the clickable cockpits.

I also am testing afghanistan map.

Pretty schaweet. Need a stick! The Gunfighter Ultimate is made of metal.
 
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