DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by dondan, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. Curiositie

    Curiositie Limp Gawd

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    You're right, I'm sorry if I was being rude. I didn't mean to be. :s
    I'll be getting one as soon as I can too. :)
     
  2. Knolly

    Knolly n00b

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    I guess I was worried I had rustled too many jimmies, thanks guys!

    I hear you with the demands. It's kind of ridiculous to roll up on a near shipping product and be like "but what if you changed everything."

    The DAN looks like such an awesome case and I think there will probably be some pretty creative uses for it from people like me with oddball uses. I mean come on, full gaming power with a nice SSD AND a huge hard drive for media storage in 7.25L? I'll make it work and it will be awesome.

    Yeah, for a gaming build I would say a 3.5" is completely unnecessary. My current build though is a combo gaming PC/everyday computer/media server. I hate having separate machines unless absolutely necessary, haha. It's just fun to try to stuff an i5, GTX 970, 512GB SSD and 8TB HDD into as small of a form factor as possible. Using a mini GPU, I'm pretty sure I could stuff all of it in and basically halve the volume of my ML08 I currently use.
     
  3. cowsgomoo

    cowsgomoo Gawd

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    I've thought about cramping storage in the A4. Easiest way is to cramp multiple 2.5" 9mm 2TB drives without using the bracket, and use SFX PSU to maximum the bottom space. When the 15mm Spinpoint M10p 4TB drives are out, it's also possible to use those. I'd pool the drives with Stablebit into one single pool.
     
  4. jtd871

    jtd871 [H]Lite

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    Well, let's see:

    1) Dan is doing this on his own, with a new company he's forming by himself in the EU (Germany, IIRC).
    2) The EU has LOTS of rules for electronics manufacturers.
    3) He's contracting with an established manufacturer for a small run (<5000 units probably) who wants to make their own reasonable profit.
    4) Every case needs to be shipped somewhere after it leaves the factory.
    5) I can't imagine how expensive the packaging is. (materials, initial design, transport, small batch)
    6) The PCIe riser alone accounts for maybe 20% of the total cost of the case.
    7) Dan needs to make reasonable profit for himself.
    8) Manufacturing a small case is likely alot trickier than manufacturing a large case, due to all the manufacturing operations that need to happen practically right on top of each other. Now do it with aluminum.
     
  5. senz

    senz n00b

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    @DonDan

    Is the production up and running in the LianLi factory now or do you have some adjustments to make before the final production line can start?

    Have you found/selected a distributor in the EU yet?


    BR
     
  6. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Original the plan was crowdfunding in early dec. and end of it end dec. But now I plan the distribution over a big european reseller that ship the case worldwide. So if I make the deal with them in dec. I will order the riser and case in january. LianLi must build and ship it so you can buy the case in march or april in the webshop.
     
  7. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    From the final price the riser accounts 25% the case 40% and the rest are fix costs (company costs, tooling fees, replacement parts), shipment costs, my tiny profit, the resellee profit and german tax (19%).
     
  8. Blk

    Blk Limp Gawd

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    Are you able to name the reseller ? (or haven't you and caseking.de signed the papers yet :D )
     
  9. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Currently I could not name the reseller ;)
     
  10. Darth Bobo

    Darth Bobo [H]ard|Gawd

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    The BIG question is, when will we be able to preorder? ;)
     
  11. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    See one of my last posts...
     
  12. jb1

    jb1 Limp Gawd

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    If you did come out with a bracket for a radiator or a 3.25'' HDD using short GPUs, would it be compatible with this first revision of the A4?
     
  13. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yes this "maybe" future upgrade will be mountable with two screws on the left side mountpoints of the front ssd.
     
  14. Knolly

    Knolly n00b

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    Fantastic to hear! Would bring some awesome added versatility. Adding more features to an already dense case is always a fun time.
     
  15. jb1

    jb1 Limp Gawd

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    Ah, I see what you mean and how you might attach it to those mount points–– I hadn't thought of that! If you do end up making this bracket you've got at least one customer :)
     
  16. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

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    Why would Dans mom be interested in this? :p
     
  17. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    Hi folks just because I have received in the last time a lot of mail about availability and some featurerequests and pricing questions, I thought it's about time for a status update. Unfortunately, some thread pages in future some people will not see this post, I would be grateful if you do not resent me if I quote this post to answer the questions.

    - General:
    Overall, the project in the four main forums has now been clicked 1.1 million times.
    I have more than 2500 registration of potential buyers on my website
    (Thank you so much for that!) ​

    - Availability:
    In mid-year it was planned to offer the case from the beginning to the end of December on a crowdfunding platform. Meanwhile I am in contact with a large reseller who wants to market the A4-SFX in his shop. If I could make the deal, the cases will be order in early January and can be purchased from you in the store in March or April. If I could not make the deal, I'll use crowdfunding. ​

    - Sales price
    The sale price will move depending on the order quantity of the reseller between 200-230$. In this price, of course, is the very high quality 3M risercabel.
    To be realistically the final price of the first series will be very close to 230$, because no reseller will be order 1000 cases in the first run from an unknown company.

    To give you some insight into the pricing, I have here a short list:

    (At a price of 230 € incl. VAT. = 119%)
    • case about 45%
    • Riser 30%
    • Fixed costs (replacement parts, tooling costs, lawyer's fees ,tax consultants, s.o.), shipping, my profit and profits of the reseller = about 25%
    • VAT 19%


    I did not calculate the development costs, the Monetary is about 3000 € and thousands of hours work. The reason for the high costs on the case itself is because I did not have my own fabric where I can build the cases. At first LianLi see me as a customer, but also as an competitor so I have to pay a higher price for the case.

    If I could I would like to sell the case for 100 €, but desire and reality are far apart. ​

    - Riser:
    As riser cable I will use the cable from 3M for the first series. For later series, it may be that I will use the new secret LianLi cable. However, this results in high tooling costs for adjustments to the PCB so that is the same as the 3M one. Producing a prototype with this exact PCB will need more time, so I choose the 3M one. The priced difference will be $ 20 between the cables, therefore, the new cable will not make the case much cheaper. By the way I'm not allowed to show pictures of the new riser yet ;)


    - Feature Request
    I am grateful for every idea that you have to improve the product. However, these ideas are no longer included in the current revision from now, because the current revision is final. Maybe some ideas will be implemented in future revisions. [/ Indent]

    - ToDo
    currently I work on the user manual. This will be completed in 1-2 weeks and I'll then upload it on my website. Of course it will be included with the final case.
    If my 2011 Narrow Ilm Bracket of Asetek will arrives next week for my Corsair H110, I will publish a tutorial on how to use an AIO water cooling external WITHOUT modding with the A4-SFX. ​


    Thank you for reading and for the many interests here in the forum.

    Many greetings

    Daniel Hansen​


     
  18. superblockio

    superblockio [H]Lite

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    Sweet, awesome work Dan! Thanks for the update
     
  19. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    Thank you so much for the update, Dan. I love you, but I hope you will get professional help with the English manual ;)

    Also, could you or anyone else knowledgable give me a pros and cons list of using a reference GPU vs an aftermarket GPU in this case?

    Thanks! I will be ordering the case as soon as it becomes available.
     
  20. Hanakuso

    Hanakuso [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm thinking about putting together a small comparison of my ID-Cooling IS-VC45, Noctua NH-L9i, CRYORIG C7, and Intel stock cooler. Should I use the same fan for all 3 aftermarket coolers? My options, Noctua 14mm, Delta 20mm, Noctua, Delta, Gentle Typhoon, San Ace 25mm thick fans.
     
  21. jameshca

    jameshca n00b

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    @Dondan. You can easily breach 1k order with crowdsourcing....
     
  22. dmhs

    dmhs n00b

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    @dondan

    I think you should reconsider your plan to initially sell this case through a large reseller. A large part of the allure of a case like this is the community involvement and the investment in the process. By selling the initial run through a retailer you essentially put a hard stop on that.

    If your goal is to move a lot of units I think your best bet is to get a crowdfunding campaign going and then engage a retailer if (when) it's successful. ncase has managed to sell a lot of cases through crowdfunding and I think you've got a design every bit as compelling as theirs.
     
  23. case1

    case1 n00b

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    Out of curiosity, with the crowd funding option, would the cases be available any earlier than March/April? Or either way are we looking at a release around then.

    Meh might be for the best that I wait, hopefully Nvidia Pascal GPU's out by then :).
     
  24. jameshca

    jameshca n00b

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    Totally agreed. Please don't put a "reseller" between us. :D
     
  25. Silentbob343

    Silentbob343 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I am sorry, but why not not use a reseller. How does this take away from the community? It should allow for faster fulfillment since he does not have to wait for people to put up money. He has a popular case, but asking for a financial commitment is vastly different than written platitudes.

    Hell, it will make quality of life much better for Dan as well.
     
  26. jameshca

    jameshca n00b

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    Because as Dondan mentioned above, the reseller doesn't even manage to order 1k units. With crowdsourcing, I think the case can reach more than 1k units. Further, crowdsourcing give him greater exposure, which in return create more demand.......
     
  27. EdZ

    EdZ Gawd

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    Remember that Crowdfunding also has overheads. While a larger initial order may reduce the unit price of production per case, the overhead of the crowdfunding campaign itself (and all the extra costs of handling distribution rather than having a reseller do it) will likely cancel out that gain unless many multiples of 1k units can be ordered. As far as I am aware, no custom case project has been that wildly successful for the initial order thus far (e.g. Ncase's Indiegogo was 600-700 orders). While the Dan A4 is a fantastically small case, ultra-high-end SFF cases are still a pretty niche market.
     
  28. dondan

    dondan [H]ard|Gawd

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    A Crowdfounding-campaign is only interesting for the first run, because its not a selling platform I could not do multiple runs over it. Furthermore I have to do the shipment by my own and the most dangerous thing is paypal. Sometimes paypal freeze the money for 180 days if they don't trust a campaign.
     
  29. jameshca

    jameshca n00b

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    Indigogo has the so called "In Demand" allowing order taking after the first run.

    As for shipment, I realised that Ncase present runs were shipped directly out from Taiwan. I speculate, They could possibly have some deal with Lian-li to do so....? perhaps you could explore the same option?

    As for the paypal things, I am sorry to hear that.

    By the way, there is your reseller located?
     
  30. iFreilicht

    iFreilicht [H]ard|Gawd

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    We only know that they're based in europe, but it's quite certain (or most often speculated) that the reseller will be caseking.de.
     
  31. Darth Bobo

    Darth Bobo [H]ard|Gawd

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    Isn't realistical that a reseller would be taking preorders to gaze the demand before taking out the order with Lian Li?
     
  32. jb1

    jb1 Limp Gawd

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    Will it be possible to order the case without the riser?
     
  33. Blk

    Blk Limp Gawd

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    Reseller is not "taking out any orders with Lian Li"
    It's Lian Li manufacturing the case for dondan and the reseller selling it on dondans behalf.

    The only one needing to "gaze demand" is dondan...
     
  34. goldy

    goldy [H]ard|Gawd

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    So how much is it going to cost? :)
     
  35. ElAntonius

    ElAntonius [H]Lite

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    It's like, in blue on the last page.
     
  36. Silentbob343

    Silentbob343 [H]ard|Gawd

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    It is also on the first post on the first page. Jesus...poor Dan, I can't blame him for wanting to go the reseller route.
     
  37. case1

    case1 n00b

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    Not quite. If the reseller is taking on 1000 of your cases, you are only going to produce 1000 right?

    That is how it works in retail usually - the reseller asks how many you can make and how much they want to take on. You then go and produce it, with whoever (Lian Li in this case).
     
  38. jhcpw

    jhcpw n00b

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    I really want this case, but I think the price point has put this in to fantasy land for me
     
  39. QuantumBraced

    QuantumBraced Gawd

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    It's also pure aluminum, right? Not that unreasonable when you consider that.
     
  40. Blk

    Blk Limp Gawd

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    Dondan can correct me if I'm wrong..

    Again, the reseller is selling the case on dondans behalf (for reasons posted earlier in the thread).
    They're not "taking on anything" using them is merely a way to make EU regulations and shipping easier..

    Ex. Super Flower is EVGAs OEM on some of their PSU and newegg sells them (i guess, if not some other store does)...
    Newegg does not decied how many PSU super flower is going to make for EVGA..

    Same thing here, dondan (EVGA) has designed it, will use lian li (super flower) as oem and a reseller (newegg) to sell it to us.