DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world

From the final price the riser accounts 25% the case 40% and the rest are fix costs (company costs, tooling fees, replacement parts), shipment costs, my tiny profit, the resellee profit and german tax (19%).

Are you able to name the reseller ? (or haven't you and caseking.de signed the papers yet :D )
 
dondan said:
Furthermore a 120mm FAN is 120mm wide ; ) My case is 113mm wide so it will not fit in the hdd-bay position. But if you use a short GPU like the AMD Nano you can mount a slim radiator next to it. Maybe I will bring out a bracket for this later, that could be used for the radiator or the 3.25" HDD.

Also a 3.25" HDD will not fit in the hdd-bay position, because it is too long and will collidate with the motherboard-tray.

If you did come out with a bracket for a radiator or a 3.25'' HDD using short GPUs, would it be compatible with this first revision of the A4?
 
Yes this "maybe" future upgrade will be mountable with two screws on the left side mountpoints of the front ssd.
 
Fantastic to hear! Would bring some awesome added versatility. Adding more features to an already dense case is always a fun time.
 
Yes this "maybe" future upgrade will be mountable with two screws on the left side mountpoints of the front ssd.

Ah, I see what you mean and how you might attach it to those mount points–– I hadn't thought of that! If you do end up making this bracket you've got at least one customer :)
 
Ah, I see what you mean and how you might attach it to those mount points–– I hadn't thought of that! If you do end up making this bracket you've got at least one customer :)

Why would Dans mom be interested in this? :p
 
Hi folks just because I have received in the last time a lot of mail about availability and some featurerequests and pricing questions, I thought it's about time for a status update. Unfortunately, some thread pages in future some people will not see this post, I would be grateful if you do not resent me if I quote this post to answer the questions.

- General:
Overall, the project in the four main forums has now been clicked 1.1 million times.
I have more than 2500 registration of potential buyers on my website
(Thank you so much for that!)​

- Availability:
In mid-year it was planned to offer the case from the beginning to the end of December on a crowdfunding platform. Meanwhile I am in contact with a large reseller who wants to market the A4-SFX in his shop. If I could make the deal, the cases will be order in early January and can be purchased from you in the store in March or April. If I could not make the deal, I'll use crowdfunding.​

- Sales price
The sale price will move depending on the order quantity of the reseller between 200-230$. In this price, of course, is the very high quality 3M risercabel.
To be realistically the final price of the first series will be very close to 230$, because no reseller will be order 1000 cases in the first run from an unknown company.

To give you some insight into the pricing, I have here a short list:

(At a price of 230 € incl. VAT. = 119%)
  • case about 45%
  • Riser 30%
  • Fixed costs (replacement parts, tooling costs, lawyer's fees ,tax consultants, s.o.), shipping, my profit and profits of the reseller = about 25%
  • VAT 19%


I did not calculate the development costs, the Monetary is about 3000 € and thousands of hours work. The reason for the high costs on the case itself is because I did not have my own fabric where I can build the cases. At first LianLi see me as a customer, but also as an competitor so I have to pay a higher price for the case.

If I could I would like to sell the case for 100 €, but desire and reality are far apart.​

- Riser:
As riser cable I will use the cable from 3M for the first series. For later series, it may be that I will use the new secret LianLi cable. However, this results in high tooling costs for adjustments to the PCB so that is the same as the 3M one. Producing a prototype with this exact PCB will need more time, so I choose the 3M one. The priced difference will be $ 20 between the cables, therefore, the new cable will not make the case much cheaper. By the way I'm not allowed to show pictures of the new riser yet ;)


- Feature Request
I am grateful for every idea that you have to improve the product. However, these ideas are no longer included in the current revision from now, because the current revision is final. Maybe some ideas will be implemented in future revisions. [/ Indent]

- ToDo
currently I work on the user manual. This will be completed in 1-2 weeks and I'll then upload it on my website. Of course it will be included with the final case.
If my 2011 Narrow Ilm Bracket of Asetek will arrives next week for my Corsair H110, I will publish a tutorial on how to use an AIO water cooling external WITHOUT modding with the A4-SFX.​


Thank you for reading and for the many interests here in the forum.

Many greetings

Daniel Hansen​
 
Thank you so much for the update, Dan. I love you, but I hope you will get professional help with the English manual ;)

Also, could you or anyone else knowledgable give me a pros and cons list of using a reference GPU vs an aftermarket GPU in this case?

Thanks! I will be ordering the case as soon as it becomes available.
 
I'm thinking about putting together a small comparison of my ID-Cooling IS-VC45, Noctua NH-L9i, CRYORIG C7, and Intel stock cooler. Should I use the same fan for all 3 aftermarket coolers? My options, Noctua 14mm, Delta 20mm, Noctua, Delta, Gentle Typhoon, San Ace 25mm thick fans.
 
@dondan

I think you should reconsider your plan to initially sell this case through a large reseller. A large part of the allure of a case like this is the community involvement and the investment in the process. By selling the initial run through a retailer you essentially put a hard stop on that.

If your goal is to move a lot of units I think your best bet is to get a crowdfunding campaign going and then engage a retailer if (when) it's successful. ncase has managed to sell a lot of cases through crowdfunding and I think you've got a design every bit as compelling as theirs.
 
Out of curiosity, with the crowd funding option, would the cases be available any earlier than March/April? Or either way are we looking at a release around then.

Meh might be for the best that I wait, hopefully Nvidia Pascal GPU's out by then :).
 
@dondan

I think you should reconsider your plan to initially sell this case through a large reseller. A large part of the allure of a case like this is the community involvement and the investment in the process. By selling the initial run through a retailer you essentially put a hard stop on that.

If your goal is to move a lot of units I think your best bet is to get a crowdfunding campaign going and then engage a retailer if (when) it's successful. ncase has managed to sell a lot of cases through crowdfunding and I think you've got a design every bit as compelling as theirs.

Totally agreed. Please don't put a "reseller" between us. :D
 
@dondan

I think you should reconsider your plan to initially sell this case through a large reseller. A large part of the allure of a case like this is the community involvement and the investment in the process. By selling the initial run through a retailer you essentially put a hard stop on that.

If your goal is to move a lot of units I think your best bet is to get a crowdfunding campaign going and then engage a retailer if (when) it's successful. ncase has managed to sell a lot of cases through crowdfunding and I think you've got a design every bit as compelling as theirs.
I am sorry, but why not not use a reseller. How does this take away from the community? It should allow for faster fulfillment since he does not have to wait for people to put up money. He has a popular case, but asking for a financial commitment is vastly different than written platitudes.

Hell, it will make quality of life much better for Dan as well.
 
I am sorry, but why not not use a reseller. How does this take away from the community? It should allow for faster fulfillment since he does not have to wait for people to put up money. He has a popular case, but asking for a financial commitment is vastly different than written platitudes.

Hell, it will make quality of life much better for Dan as well.


Because as Dondan mentioned above, the reseller doesn't even manage to order 1k units. With crowdsourcing, I think the case can reach more than 1k units. Further, crowdsourcing give him greater exposure, which in return create more demand.......
 
Remember that Crowdfunding also has overheads. While a larger initial order may reduce the unit price of production per case, the overhead of the crowdfunding campaign itself (and all the extra costs of handling distribution rather than having a reseller do it) will likely cancel out that gain unless many multiples of 1k units can be ordered. As far as I am aware, no custom case project has been that wildly successful for the initial order thus far (e.g. Ncase's Indiegogo was 600-700 orders). While the Dan A4 is a fantastically small case, ultra-high-end SFF cases are still a pretty niche market.
 
A Crowdfounding-campaign is only interesting for the first run, because its not a selling platform I could not do multiple runs over it. Furthermore I have to do the shipment by my own and the most dangerous thing is paypal. Sometimes paypal freeze the money for 180 days if they don't trust a campaign.
 
A Crowdfounding-campaign is only interesting for the first run, because its not a selling platform I could not do multiple runs over it. Furthermore I have to do the shipment by my own and the most dangerous thing is paypal. Sometimes paypal freeze the money for 180 days if they don't trust a campaign.

Indigogo has the so called "In Demand" allowing order taking after the first run.

As for shipment, I realised that Ncase present runs were shipped directly out from Taiwan. I speculate, They could possibly have some deal with Lian-li to do so....? perhaps you could explore the same option?

As for the paypal things, I am sorry to hear that.

By the way, there is your reseller located?
 
Isn't realistical that a reseller would be taking preorders to gaze the demand before taking out the order with Lian Li?
 
- Riser:
As riser cable I will use the cable from 3M for the first series. For later series, it may be that I will use the new secret LianLi cable. However, this results in high tooling costs for adjustments to the PCB so that is the same as the 3M one. Producing a prototype with this exact PCB will need more time, so I choose the 3M one. The priced difference will be $ 20 between the cables, therefore, the new cable will not make the case much cheaper. By the way I'm not allowed to show pictures of the new riser yet ;)

Will it be possible to order the case without the riser?
 
Isn't realistical that a reseller would be taking preorders to gaze the demand before taking out the order with Lian Li?

Reseller is not "taking out any orders with Lian Li"
It's Lian Li manufacturing the case for dondan and the reseller selling it on dondans behalf.

The only one needing to "gaze demand" is dondan...
 
The sale price will move depending on the order quantity of the reseller between 200-230$. In this price, of course, is the very high quality 3M risercabel.
To be realistically the final price of the first series will be very close to 230$, because no reseller will be order 1000 cases in the first run from an unknown company.

It's like, in blue on the last page.
 
Reseller is not "taking out any orders with Lian Li"
It's Lian Li manufacturing the case for dondan and the reseller selling it on dondans behalf.

The only one needing to "gaze demand" is dondan...

Not quite. If the reseller is taking on 1000 of your cases, you are only going to produce 1000 right?

That is how it works in retail usually - the reseller asks how many you can make and how much they want to take on. You then go and produce it, with whoever (Lian Li in this case).
 
I really want this case, but I think the price point has put this in to fantasy land for me
 
Not quite. If the reseller is taking on 1000 of your cases, you are only going to produce 1000 right?

That is how it works in retail usually - the reseller asks how many you can make and how much they want to take on. You then go and produce it, with whoever (Lian Li in this case).

Dondan can correct me if I'm wrong..

Again, the reseller is selling the case on dondans behalf (for reasons posted earlier in the thread).
They're not "taking on anything" using them is merely a way to make EU regulations and shipping easier..

Ex. Super Flower is EVGAs OEM on some of their PSU and newegg sells them (i guess, if not some other store does)...
Newegg does not decied how many PSU super flower is going to make for EVGA..

Same thing here, dondan (EVGA) has designed it, will use lian li (super flower) as oem and a reseller (newegg) to sell it to us.
 
I just hope going with a reseller means there will be enough supply for the demand. I'm worried the reseller doesn't have enough money to purchase hundreds of cases or doesn't believe the demand is there.

If you guys remember after the Ncase M1 V1, the ebay prices were extremely high when there was no certainty of a V2.
 
I just hope going with a reseller means there will be enough supply for the demand. I'm worried the reseller doesn't have enough money to purchase hundreds of cases or doesn't believe the demand is there.

If you guys remember after the Ncase M1 V1, the ebay prices were extremely high when there was no certainty of a V2.

That's the other point i forgot to make..
The reseller wont purchase the cases, doesn't matter what they think of the demand.. it's up to dondan...

new example...
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pny-...s-card-2gb-gddr3-384-cuda-core-gx-045-pn.html
It's listed as BTO, bought to order...
Meaning the store does not have it in stock, but they will order it from pny (or their supplier of pny stuff) who has it in stock...

Dondan (PNY) gets the case built and as soon as (overclockers.uk) dondans reseller sell a case they contact dondan and say" we sold one, send it to us (will probably already be with them, but) and we will send it to the buyer..."

Dondan (PNY) decied how many they make and not the reseller, the reseller just dispaches the products, takes care of the payment and is the official seller on the receipt.
 
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Its not as easy as you told.

Because I am not a huge company it is very dangerous for me to buy by myself 1000 cases and hold them on stock and waiting if the reseller order one. They will order a fix number of cases min. 300 and I order it from LianLi. Furthermore the reseller can't calculate how successful the A4-SFX will be so the first batch will be small. But the product will be 8-10 weeks before the reseller have it in stock preorderable. If all of you order than the case the case will be sold out in minutes. So they will be directly order more cases to make sure they have enough for all of you ;)

The great advantage of a reseller is that they will do shipment from Taiwan to Germany. They have an online shop to selling it, they working as a distributor for other shops in the EU and shipping the case to you. This will save a lot of work and grey hairs for me.
 
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Its not as easy as you told.

Because I am not a huge company it is very dangerous for me to buy by myself 1000 cases and hold them on stock and waiting if the reseller order one. They will order a fix number of cases min. 300 and I order it from LianLi. Furthermore the reseller can't calculate how successful the A4-SFX will be so the first batch will be small. But the product will be 8-10 weeks before the reseller have it in stock preorderable. If all of you order than the case the case will be sold out in minutes. So they will be directly order more cases to make sure they have enough for all of you ;)

The great advantage of a reseller is that they will do shipment from Taiwan to Germany. They have an online shop to selling it, they working as a distributor for other shops in the EU and shipping the case to you. This will save a lot of work and grey hairs for me.

This seems reasonable to me! You've put a ton of work into this project and it's wonderful that you've been working with all of these communities to refine the product to be the best it can be over the past several years. Reduce the extra stress on yourself for the next step!

Not sure if you saw my previous post–– can we order this case without the PCIe riser? I'm just curious because I will use another riser with 8x 8x bifurcation.

Also, is this same reseller the spot we will go to for other accessories, for example, extra panels for the A4 in another color (silver in addition to black)?
 
Its not as easy as you told.

Because I am not a huge company it is very dangerous for me to buy by myself 1000 cases and hold them on stock and waiting if the reseller order one. They will order a fix number of cases min. 300 and I order it from LianLi. Furthermore the reseller can't calculate how successful the A4-SFX will be so the first batch will be small. But the product will be 8-10 weeks before the reseller have it in stock preorderable. If all of you order than the case the case will be sold out in minutes. So they will be directly order more cases to make sure they have enough for all of you ;)

The great advantage of a reseller is that they will do shipment from Taiwan to Germany. They have an online shop to selling it, they working as a distributor for other shops in the EU and shipping the case to you. This will save a lot of work and grey hairs for me.

Obviously, but they seemed to have problems understanding what i would consider basic business and I didn't want to make it overly complicated.

I hope they would understand that the reseller and you together make the equivalent of what the crowdfunding would do. And on that bases you will deiced how many to make, it's not up to the reseller... however it might influence your decision.. but who knows Ncase sold a batch directly to a store, might be others interested when they see how quickly the sell out :)
 
I got question for Dondan. Someone here presumed that reseller would be caseking.de. And it seems that that reseller doesn't ship to Russia. Which means I won't be able to buy your case physically.

Can you confirm that?
 
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