I'm pretty sure it's to make installing a GPU easier and possible. I really hope Dan decides to put a metal plate over it like the Ncase M1 does. Dan did mention he'll look into it. Just for myself, this is the deal breaker with the A4.
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DAN A4-SFX: The smallest gaming case in the world
- Thread starter dondan
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Seriously, a small opening at the back that you're not going to see is a deal breaker even though you are getting the smallest gaming case in the world?
QuantumBraced
Gawd
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I just visualized installing a GPU in it and I understand what you mean haha. I don't have much experience with small cases, this will be my first one. I understand, and a plate would be nice, but not a deal breaker for me either. It can actually be used as a quasi-handle
Seriously, a small opening at the back that you're not going to see is a deal breaker even though you are getting the smallest gaming case in the world?
I don't get why anyone is against the extra plate cover though. It's in no way detrimental to the current design and you can remove it if you want airflow.
mike chin of silentpcreview is the best case and cooler reviewer in the world because he is a professional. he is not just a website reporter.
It's the main reason why I didn't buy the Osmi case.Seriously, a small opening at the back that you're not going to see is a deal breaker even though you are getting the smallest gaming case in the world?
If Dan decides not to, I might still buy the A4, but I still definitely do it myself. The hard part is to color match it.
Shuttle PC has a little cover for the PCI bracket hole. It's pointless. It serves no purpose. It raises the price of the case for a cosmetic change that you cannot see. And honestly it gets in the way when installing the video card.
It's to keep out the big creepy crawlies. It's important for some of us.
The extra cost is most likely negligible.
It's a one-time removal if you dislike it. It might be a problem if you have OCD and are forced to put it on even if you don't need it, because otherwise it won't be a complete set and that triggers the OCD.
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Someone earlier in the thread mentioned creepy crawlies could enter through holes like these. If you live in an area with lots of pests in the house then this cover could be very helpful
iFreilicht
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Would it really, though? Sure, consoles GPUs have access to all 8GB of RAM in theory while most desktop cards only got 4GB, but if it's a lazy port it won't run at 60FPS anyway, and there's only so much information you've got to move over to the GPU every frame. Additionally, until console games of the current generation are actually optimised well enough to look as good as current PC games do, we might have gotten 8GB HBM already.
I'm so triggered right now, please stop.
vipz
Gawd
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The opening for the GPU expansion cover can be a lot smaller in this case since you can unscrew the PCIe slot during installation.
Probably not much smaller than it is, because the tab that the cards screw into is cut and bent out of the chassis rear. That tab should extend out about 10mm, so the cutout is going to be around 12mm+ tall.
00joshua00
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+1
Curiositie
Limp Gawd
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Finally finished my unscientific benchmarking on the C7 vs my slow speed U9B-SE2.
Overall, I'm happy with it.
Idle temps were at least 20min after the benchmark was done, Prime95 and Firestrike were run for 20min, firestrike was a loop of just the combined test, totaling about 25K frames by the end of the tests.
Overall I like the C7, It's very loud under load (IMO, I think it's probably only a little louder than my 980 under load, about the same noise level as my brothers desktop, so it should be acceptable for most people.)
It cools well for it's size, though I think it would like some airflow over it since it's so far away from any fresh air. I intend to try to find a way to slide my prolimatech slim 140mm over it and see if that does anything good or bad.
Here's how it looks:
I can get more pictures tomorrow and I'm up to answer any questions anyone has.
I'll also run other benchmarks on the C7 if you guys have certain ones you'd like to see, though I don't have the noctua cooler anymore since I gave it to my brother.
Edit:
I'm going to take the heatsink off and check the thermal paste application after I get home from work.
Overall, I'm happy with it.
Idle temps were at least 20min after the benchmark was done, Prime95 and Firestrike were run for 20min, firestrike was a loop of just the combined test, totaling about 25K frames by the end of the tests.
Overall I like the C7, It's very loud under load (IMO, I think it's probably only a little louder than my 980 under load, about the same noise level as my brothers desktop, so it should be acceptable for most people.)
It cools well for it's size, though I think it would like some airflow over it since it's so far away from any fresh air. I intend to try to find a way to slide my prolimatech slim 140mm over it and see if that does anything good or bad.
Here's how it looks:
I can get more pictures tomorrow and I'm up to answer any questions anyone has.
I'll also run other benchmarks on the C7 if you guys have certain ones you'd like to see, though I don't have the noctua cooler anymore since I gave it to my brother.
Edit:
I'm going to take the heatsink off and check the thermal paste application after I get home from work.
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I mean that the base FPS at 4K is significantly less than the base FPS at 1080p - which makes sense as there are more pixels to push. The ratio depends on the game benchmarked, but ranges from about 1:3 to 1:2. Some benchmarks are not repeated between the two reviews, but those for Ryse, and Crysis 3 (both DX11) have similar ratios of FPS for both the 980 and the Fury.
I don't dispute the original assertion that PCIe1.1x4 does not proportionally handicap a modern GPU compared to PCIe3.0x16 relative to total theoretical bandwidth of the PCIe bus.
dan is a one man show and asking him to design another part, have a prototype made, test it, revise it, pay to have it made and pay someone to install it on every case... come on. buy a pack of sugru or something to plug the hole to keep your bugs out
frankly I think dealing with infestation is not dan's problem right now. duct tape over the hole if you must
You literally have no idea what you are talking about. It's just a rectangular piece of metal with two screws. As for the actual complexity and manpower required to test a piece of metal with two screw and installing it, only Dan can answer that. Lian Li is in charge of making the cases anyway.
It's not difficult, but it's non-trivial:
- Needs to be the correct size to close the hole without interfering with the PCIe bracket top (some cards have 'bends' in the corners of the PCIe tab to provide some minor retention without screws for screwless mounting solutions. If this were not taken into account he plate will not fit with these cards)
- Mounting holes need to be added to the back panel, with threading (needs threaded inserts, which means an extra manufacturing step as these would be in the opposite orientation to the inserts for the PCIe cards)
- Extra plate needs to be punched. Depending on existing sheet usage, this may require a whole extra tooling pass. If no punch-dies of the correct size are available the plate will need to be cut, adding more cost.
- Holes need to be punched in a small plate, which is trickier than a large plate due to material handling, or requires holes to be punched prior to plate being punched/cut, or needs an expensive cutting pass (or incorporated into a cutting pass).
- Extra assembly steps and QC steps (need to verify plate is present/has been fitted in correct orientation, correct screws are present, plate is not scratched and has not scratched outside of chassis), extra part to track through production.
Anytime you want to make a few hundred identical somethings, even 'simple' changes require a load of work.
- Needs to be the correct size to close the hole without interfering with the PCIe bracket top (some cards have 'bends' in the corners of the PCIe tab to provide some minor retention without screws for screwless mounting solutions. If this were not taken into account he plate will not fit with these cards)
- Mounting holes need to be added to the back panel, with threading (needs threaded inserts, which means an extra manufacturing step as these would be in the opposite orientation to the inserts for the PCIe cards)
- Extra plate needs to be punched. Depending on existing sheet usage, this may require a whole extra tooling pass. If no punch-dies of the correct size are available the plate will need to be cut, adding more cost.
- Holes need to be punched in a small plate, which is trickier than a large plate due to material handling, or requires holes to be punched prior to plate being punched/cut, or needs an expensive cutting pass (or incorporated into a cutting pass).
- Extra assembly steps and QC steps (need to verify plate is present/has been fitted in correct orientation, correct screws are present, plate is not scratched and has not scratched outside of chassis), extra part to track through production.
Anytime you want to make a few hundred identical somethings, even 'simple' changes require a load of work.
dondan
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I don't think I will add it for revision 1.0 maybe for a later revision.
@Curiositie: What CPU do you use with the C7?
@Curiositie: What CPU do you use with the C7?
He was thinking about it a long time ago. Really duct tape?
Barbarian_PT
Limp Gawd
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Selling soon, maybe in a few months (2 or 3).
Retailer selling it.
Retailer selling it.
iFreilicht
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The plate could attach with the GPU screws to sandwhich the metal tabs of the PCIe brackets. This would only require an additional small plate with two holes and one bend to be made, no changes to the rest of the case.
Since when does the A4 have threaded inserts? I thought all holes were just tapped into the sheet like LianLi usuall does it?
The bends on the bracket are oriented towards the already existing attachment flange, not towards the outside.
I'm pretty sure the pieces for this case are laser cut and/or punched on a revolver punch press, so tooling costs would be 0$.
I agree that manufacturing this small part would have to be figured out, and as Dan has only so much time in his day that is filled with legal stuff and distribution deals at the moment, this is something to consider for Rev1.1, especially with so many people asking every day when the thing will be released.
Thanks.
Curiositie
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I'm using a 3570K @stock.
I'm going to check/ reapply thermal paste tonight, I have a feeling I may have done a bad job of it.
Edit:
Probably not my best application..
Reapplied and made sure the fins were horizontal as opposed to vertical because I wanted to test if that made a difference.
Edit:
I'm not happy with the fins running horizontal as opposed to vertical, reapplied again, fins are vertical again.
Temps are better when the fins are vertical, and the heatpipes are horizontal if that single mount was anything to go by.
Right now I'm thinking there's some user error in my results or something.
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Boil
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Xigmatek Janus:
Even the Janus does not fit without adjustments on it, because with its 60mm it would actually be too high.
If you unscrew the 120mm top fan and change the lower 80mm fan to the Noctua A9x14, Thermalright TR-Y100 or Scythe SY1012SL12M the cooler fits.
The lower fan was mounting in priming position through the upper heatsink. Mounting it the other way results in 10°C higher temperatures.
Sounds like you need to remove the larger top fan altogether, and replace the smaller lower fan with one of the three listed…
Even the Janus does not fit without adjustments on it, because with its 60mm it would actually be too high.
If you unscrew the 120mm top fan and change the lower 80mm fan to the Noctua A9x14, Thermalright TR-Y100 or Scythe SY1012SL12M the cooler fits.
The lower fan was mounting in priming position through the upper heatsink. Mounting it the other way results in 10°C higher temperatures.
Sounds like you need to remove the larger top fan altogether, and replace the smaller lower fan with one of the three listed…
Boil
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Sounds about right, the larger fan has to go or the HSF will not fit in the chassis
This case has piqued my interest so much.
As someone in the EU, what are realistic expectations for when I might finally have my hand on this case?
January, February, March?
Secondly, the only thing that actually is a negative on this case for me, is that it has no option for a slim load style optical driver slot (such as the FTZ01). How much work would need to be done to have something functional in terms of optical drive to work in this case?
I am looking to use m.2 SSD so will have no requirements for any SSD/HDD bays or cages - the only thing I was looking for really was a slot for the optical drive - as it will function as a blue-ray player.
At present, it looks like the only option is that I'd have to use an external one, which is a shame - as I would have loved to have a slit on the case and have space available to slot in a slim blue ray drive (like the Silverstone SOBO2) - and a slit would probably add to the look of the case similar to the FTZ01.
A lot of people will love to use this as a HTPC, so I think it would have been a really good addition - perhaps as a Rev 2.0?
I mean I am not even bothered by the 1 front USB, all about wireless I think with systems like this. The only thing this is losing out to the FTZ01 in my eyes is the blue ray drive slot...
As someone in the EU, what are realistic expectations for when I might finally have my hand on this case?
January, February, March?
Secondly, the only thing that actually is a negative on this case for me, is that it has no option for a slim load style optical driver slot (such as the FTZ01). How much work would need to be done to have something functional in terms of optical drive to work in this case?
I am looking to use m.2 SSD so will have no requirements for any SSD/HDD bays or cages - the only thing I was looking for really was a slot for the optical drive - as it will function as a blue-ray player.
At present, it looks like the only option is that I'd have to use an external one, which is a shame - as I would have loved to have a slit on the case and have space available to slot in a slim blue ray drive (like the Silverstone SOBO2) - and a slit would probably add to the look of the case similar to the FTZ01.
A lot of people will love to use this as a HTPC, so I think it would have been a really good addition - perhaps as a Rev 2.0?
I mean I am not even bothered by the 1 front USB, all about wireless I think with systems like this. The only thing this is losing out to the FTZ01 in my eyes is the blue ray drive slot...
herrsahlin
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I think you don't realize how compact the A4 is. A standard CD/DVD is 120mm wide but this case is 8mm narrower than that. Your only option seems to be placing the drive vertically and looking at the pictures on the first page I have a hard time seeing how that would fit without losing any performance.
The extremely small size of the A4 means that some compromises have to be made. I'm not saying it's impossible but maybe this case is not what suits your needs best.
Aircoookie
Limp Gawd
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Just quickly wanted to inform everyone I designed a 3D-printable vertical stand for the A4. The motive for doing this is (who guessed it) not enough desk space. For me, it's impossible to put the case like it is intended, because I need that space for my mouse. Therefore, this stand will make the long side stand up like 400mm (space for connectors) and the horizontal side only 200mm. For printing you'll need a printer with a volume of 20x15x15cm. I do however still have some stability and thermal concerns (i don't think that this design will work with blower-style GPUs, furthermore it destroys the whole air convection concept of the case ), therefore I'll release this after I received an A4 and tried whether it works.
Here is a picture to show you how it's supposed to look like (hole in the front is for custom power button, and yeah I know, my GIMP perspective scaling skills are horrific and make the case look ugly, sorry )
), therefore I'll release this after I received an A4 and tried whether it works.Here is a picture to show you how it's supposed to look like (hole in the front is for custom power button, and yeah I know, my GIMP perspective scaling skills are horrific and make the case look ugly, sorry
)
Water Cooling for mitx mb, pitty DA wont fit it.
http://vr-zone.com/articles/corsair-introduces-hydro-series-h5-sf-liquid-cpu-cooler/102414.html
http://vr-zone.com/articles/corsair-introduces-hydro-series-h5-sf-liquid-cpu-cooler/102414.html
QuantumBraced
Gawd
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Yeah, this case is meant to be as small as possible without sacrificing anything essential. Unfortunately, things like optical drives, 3.5" HDDs, big air coolers, AIO liquid coolers are not really essential, so they're not supported. If you're looking for a case that is as small as possible without making any compromises -- aside from the Mini ITX form factor -- then the best one in my opinion is the NCase M1.
iFreilicht
[H]ard|Gawd
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That cooler plus the board is literally taller than the A4 is wide. If you think that thing is a good idea, you have to look at a different case.
Curiositie
Limp Gawd
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I'm kind of curious why it sits so high, surely it could sit a good 5mm+ lower.
Boil
[H]ard|Gawd
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Now how about releasing that SF600 PSU, Corsair…?!?
Curiositie
Limp Gawd
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QuantumBraced
Gawd
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Wouldn't that AIO cooler bump into people's exhaust fans and other things in compact cases? Seems quite impractical. I also can't wait for the SF600, I'm not building a system in the A4 without it.