carrierPigeon
Limp Gawd
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I am pretty sure it's an IPS screen. On the manufacturer's website, it says that this model has viewing angels of 178 degrees. I think that means it's IPS.
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Current 43" 4K options?
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thomaslfessler
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va, mva smva, etc offers a viewing angle (Horizont al/Vertical):, 178° / 178°
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm
samsung using a lg technology is unlikely
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPS_panel
On a side note....
working with an updated tcl s4305... vertical banding issues are showing up in certain circumstances.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm
samsung using a lg technology is unlikely
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPS_panel
On a side note....
working with an updated tcl s4305... vertical banding issues are showing up in certain circumstances.
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I just got a hisense 43h6d.
DO NOT BUY. AVOID THIS MODEL, and maybe other h7 h8 models.
I can confirm what Thomas above said. The text looks like garbled garbage. Like some wackass sharpening was done to it.
Even with sharpening turned down, the text and everything else that is rendered, look awful.
For some reason this TV gives me eye strain too. Which shouldn't happen if it were 500hz pwm.
My computer is pushing out rgb and 4:4:4, but this mode looks worse than 4:2:0
The only cheap options are 43 TCL and 43 samsung. But I have been having major hdmi connection issues with the Samsung. It flickers and blacks out frequently, even with the most expensive hdmi cables.
That leaves just the TCL as the best buy.
DO NOT BUY. AVOID THIS MODEL, and maybe other h7 h8 models.
I can confirm what Thomas above said. The text looks like garbled garbage. Like some wackass sharpening was done to it.
Even with sharpening turned down, the text and everything else that is rendered, look awful.
For some reason this TV gives me eye strain too. Which shouldn't happen if it were 500hz pwm.
My computer is pushing out rgb and 4:4:4, but this mode looks worse than 4:2:0
The only cheap options are 43 TCL and 43 samsung. But I have been having major hdmi connection issues with the Samsung. It flickers and blacks out frequently, even with the most expensive hdmi cables.
That leaves just the TCL as the best buy.
Are you talking about fine vertical lines on moving objects, or when looking at something while moving your head? My eyes are sensitive to these, unless I wear my glasses, which make the fine vertical lines disappear for the most part.
The Hisense has it too, but the TCL's vertical lines are worse.
so I think this is simply a flaw of VA panels.
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Sony 720E
That sony is expensive for what you get, and never seems to go on sale.
has a budget monitor color gamut IPS screen.
The samsung 43 was on sale for $399 recently. The sony will never dip to that price.
If it weren't for the finicky hdmi handshake, I'd buy/keep that.
With the built-in hdmi 2.0 port on my laptop, I can't get the Samsung stable without flickering, unless I disable HDMI Black level, and set custom resolution to 4k @59hz and CVT Reduced Blank.
The TCL 43 can get really cheap when it goes on sale.
The lowest I've seen was $330 including a $100 Dell gift certificate.
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This is the problem I have with the TCL s405. I was able to catch it on camera, and it really depends on the focal length.
My eyes keep focusing weird, making me notice these vertical lines 2 pixels apart. When the image is still, I don't see the vertical lines.
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Sony keeps a tight price control on their resellers. Prices have gone on "sale" for sony at all resellers:
KD43X720E $549
XBR43X800E $649
thomaslfessler
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Considering your image, I'm seeing the effects of camera sharpening of the scaled pixels, etc. which is normal for any display and highly dependent on the image scaler. Considering my 43S405, I have an issue of color / luminance blending above an image in specific circumstances, pointing towards an issue with a specific panel. Beyond that one instance, the image is great.
Back to the Hisense 43 at work... I spend 8 hours+ daily on this monitor and over the last 3 weeks have stopped using glasses. How?? The image scaler. While 3840x2160's added pixels add funk to the image, running at 3008x1692 HiDpi delivers one hell of a comfortable image for my eyes. Without those prescription readers Go figure.
One the subject of 40" VA monitor's, I'm impressed with the technology. The DEEP BLACKS withuot strobing along the edges is where IPS should be. Except for Sony, who has a unique backlighting technique.. at a cost
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GnatGoSplat
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It really doesn't look IPS to me, but it's possible the screen they use varies by build date. I read somewhere that some batches would have VA screens and some IPS screens.
Might look at the Vizio E43-E2. I don't know that anyone here has mentioned trying that one.
thomaslfessler, any word from your contact at Hisense? I keep hoping to see a firmware update message pop up that will magically fix the funky sharpening.
I'm looking for a TV with coaxial. So Vizio is off my list.
if it has washed out blacks, and colors retain vibrancy at 45+ degrees from center, then it's IPS or PLS
if blacks have gamma shift, then it's VA.
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
My 43h6d hisense didn't even spend 1 hour out of the box, I packed it back into the box for return. The Hisense is horrible, and I wouldn't hold my breath for a fw update anytime soon.
I remember the H8C took forever to get chroma 444 support.
No one should buy half-baked shit.
I think my eyes are just oversensitive, because I just noticed I can see vertical pixel lines on my 4.5" phone screen too when I move my head.
If your color blending is the same as mine, I fixed it by turning Contrast down to 45-46.
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php
All 32 bands in this test should be distinct. I noticed that out of the box, the TCL would blend the last few bands in the red and blue row. Decreasing contrast fixed it.
thomaslfessler
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GnatGoSplat
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Hard to say for certain since it was way up on the top row, but the E43-E2's I saw at two Walmarts definitely didn't have any better color vibrancy off center than any of the other VA panels around it. Although this is the CNet review that says it's IPS.
https://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-e43-e2/review/
I actually like the overall picture quality of my Hisense (Sharp LC-43N6100U) enough that I don't think the weird sharpening is that bad. It is overall a gorgeous picture when properly adjusted. However, the fact it was only $100 may be influencing my opinion.
I don't understand what you mean by luminance bleeding vertically. Can you describe it? You're saying color doesn't stay in its pixel boundaries, and spills over to other pixels?
I can't tell what's wrong based on your picture. Where should I be looking?
Will probably drop another $50 in November.
I figured out what it is. It's the moire of the screen. It seems all VA panels have some kind of moire.
TCL moire is every other column of pixels appearing with slightly different brightness.
Samsung moire is every column of pixels, but in a checkerboard pattern.
The checkerboard of the samsung is much less noticeable, because it is an even pattern.
I have to sit farther away to not notice the moire on the TCL
GnatGoSplat
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Looks like it's possible to get the 43X800E for $600 right now on eBay using 20% off coupon.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-43-4K-...359940&hash=item2a80751461:g:1IMAAOSwfRdZJFXJ
Worth it? Still seems quite expensive to me.
X720E could be bought for $500 yesterday, but seems those are gone.
Same coupon also can get the TCL 43S405 for $299.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TCL-43-inch...sh=item2384e4c3f3&afepn=5337259887&rmvSB=true
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Mad Maxx
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Misleading claim on that listing from Electronic Express. 20% off $648 should be about $130, but the code only knocks off $50.
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GnatGoSplat
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Yeah, the coupon has a max of $50, which makes the X800E $598 (I rounded up earlier) and not $518. Can't help but wonder if it's worth waiting till Black Friday. Did the X800D ever drop below $600 last year? If not, $598 might be as good as it gets.
Then there's the fact that $598 is still significantly more expensive than any other option and I'm not sure that the X800E is really worth twice the cost of a TCL 43S405, for example.
definitely not worth double. Maybe 50% more though. $500 would be a warm deal for the sony I guess. It's the only budget RGB IPS panel that has a wider color gamut. The next level lower would be the $400 43" samsung mu6300 RGB PLS panel with a regular color gamut.
I disassembled the TCL 43s405, and the inside seems decent.
The whole backside of the TV is black-painted metal, so maybe better heat dissipation than plastic-clad samsungs.
The lcd panel is made by AUO. Not in-house produced CSOT.
Maybe that's why the picture quality was a whole lot better than the 49" version of this TV.
Controller board seems to use quality components.
Cheap wifi card.
Power supply is questionable.
The whole backside of the TV is black-painted metal, so maybe better heat dissipation than plastic-clad samsungs.
The lcd panel is made by AUO. Not in-house produced CSOT.
Maybe that's why the picture quality was a whole lot better than the 49" version of this TV.
Controller board seems to use quality components.
Cheap wifi card.
Power supply is questionable.
GnatGoSplat
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How much work was it to open the Hisense? I'm curious what's in my Sharp-branded Hisense. Are there any annoying snaps or clips?
What would be a better budget screen, S405 or MU6300? Is the MU6300 confirmed IPS (chevron-shaped subpixels)?
What would be a better budget screen, S405 or MU6300? Is the MU6300 confirmed IPS (chevron-shaped subpixels)?
You can often find tcon pictures on ebay.
very easy to open. Lots of screws, no clips. Every TV I have opened has been held together by screws only.
for 43", the mu6300 has a PLS panel.
Chevron subpixels are only for LG IPS panels. the 43mu6300 has BOE panel, regular RGB subpixels.
Which one is better depends on your usage. it comes down to IPS vs VA. The 43s405 is slightly brighter. Whiter whites.
GnatGoSplat
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Oh, good point. Looks like my Sharp LC-43N6100U likely has a 1155892 tcon board which has an AUO chip on it. Panel is listed as Hisense HD426DU-B51. The Sharp shares a lot of parts (if not all) with the 43H7C2, so that's probably the closest Hisense-branded equivalent.
I didn't know chevrons are LG. The Sony 43-inchers must use LG panels then?
Kind of wish I'd jumped on that MU6300 deal. Maybe it'll come around again Black Friday.
Here is the 4:4:4 of my Sharp LC-43N6100U. It looks a bit better than the Hisense shot that was posted earlier, I think he wasn't in native resolution. Weird Hisense sharpening effect is very evident in the e's, especially on black background.
yes, sony buys ips panels from LG.
that hisense picture posted earlier was actually native resolution. That's how fucked up the H6D is. It screws up the last two blue/red rows on the quick brown fox.
the H7c and H6d also have the same pixel aliasing shown in the "e" "u" "c" "b" letters in your picture... with the extra dots on the inside corners of the letters.
it's been this long, seems like Hisense has no plans to fix the extra text pixels
That 43mu6300 was on sale for $330 after rebate this past weekend at newegg.
GnatGoSplat
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Are all IPS LG? I read on one website IPS is LG and PLS is Samsung, but they are similar. A lot of websites don't make the distinction and call all panels using similar technology "IPS".
@thomasfessler said his H6D screenshot was in 3840 HiDpi, I'm not sure what that means, but his blue/red rows look a LOT worse than mine. Mine isn't that far off from the S405 in appearance. The H6D could just be extra shitty, but I find that strange because Hisense seems to use a lot of the same parts across many models.
The $330 deal was the one I missed. Thinking maybe I should have gotten in on that. I don't think being less bright would have been a problem for me if it's overall bright enough. When I Googled the panel #, it came back on panellook.com as a true 10-bit panel. I don't know how significant that is, but kind of interesting since most are 8-bit with FRC.
@thomasfessler said his H6D screenshot was in 3840 HiDpi, I'm not sure what that means, but his blue/red rows look a LOT worse than mine. Mine isn't that far off from the S405 in appearance. The H6D could just be extra shitty, but I find that strange because Hisense seems to use a lot of the same parts across many models.
The $330 deal was the one I missed. Thinking maybe I should have gotten in on that. I don't think being less bright would have been a problem for me if it's overall bright enough. When I Googled the panel #, it came back on panellook.com as a true 10-bit panel. I don't know how significant that is, but kind of interesting since most are 8-bit with FRC.
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They say "IPS" for simplicity.
I tested the h6d at 4k 60hz chroma 444, and my blue/red rows were fucked up like that.
Windows said I was in 60hz chroma 444, so the h6d supports it, but just doesn't render it properly.
The PLS panel in the 43mu6300 is a standard average quality 8bit + frc.
I can see the dithering on the black test at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
likewise, the 40mu6300 has even more noticeable dithering on the black level test.
sites like panelook.com are not accurate as far as distinguishing 8bit+frc from real 10bits.
A cheap TV like this definitely won't have a true 10bit.
overall brightness is like a standard 250nit pc monitor. So it is bright enough for most people, and you get used to it. It just looks worse sitting next to a TV that is brighter. I have the brighter 300+nits 40mu6300 sitting next to this 43mu6300.
Overall, I'd say $330 is the true value of this 43" TV, compared to a $330 TCL 43s405.
I mean, you get what you pay for. The samsung's $600 MSRP is just bullshit.
The samsung is a cheap chinese bottom-edge-lit 8bit+Frc ips-type panel, with standard-low contrast, and dimmer backlight (by current TV standards).
When it comes to viewing still images and websites, I can say objectively that the AUO VA panel in the TCL 43" is better quality. The samsung BOE has 'artifacts'. Specifically these fine horizontal lines that are a shade lighter, spaced 2 pixels apart on certain colors like blue.
It's hard to capture on camera, but you can sorta see it in the blue box below, and is more obvious to the naked eye at desktop viewing distance.
The AUO panel is pretty much picture perfect in still images, with no fine lines.
Color quality is a toss up, as the TCL comes with infinite color adjustments on the roku phone app, so you can tweak the color to look like samsung if you wish.
thomaslfessler
Limp Gawd
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I’ve reshot the Hisense over DisplayPort to HDMI 2.x @ 60hz using a pluggable adapter and a hdmi 1.4 connection@ 30hz.
These were rendered with a 1:1 resolution. A HiDPI rendered image is where the OS renders the ui at a much higher resolution, scaling it to 4K.
The 4k60 DisplayPort images are notably blurry with the red/blue text. This is not an issue with the TCL. The direct path of hdmi -> hdmi 2.x is relatively clean.
Comparison to TCL
Comparison to the legacy Seiki 39” 4K
These were rendered with a 1:1 resolution. A HiDPI rendered image is where the OS renders the ui at a much higher resolution, scaling it to 4K.
The 4k60 DisplayPort images are notably blurry with the red/blue text. This is not an issue with the TCL. The direct path of hdmi -> hdmi 2.x is relatively clean.
Comparison to TCL
Comparison to the legacy Seiki 39” 4K
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GnatGoSplat
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So for $330, would you say the TCL is the way to go?
Thomas, thanks for the updates. The H6D firmware seems peculiarly screwed up in a way that's worse than even any other model of Hisense.
I'm a cheapass, so while I think $330 TCL is a better value than a $330 Samsung mu6300, $330 is too close to TCL MSRP.
$330 is only a $40 discount, and there were better deals for it in the past.
I've seen the 43s405 for $330, including a $100 Dell gift certificate. So, after taxes and taking a hit on the gift cert, it would be about $290.
Recently there was an ebay deal that brought it down to $300 out the door, no hassles.
I would buy the TCL for $250-275, not because I think less of its merits, but because of its price history.
I hope such a deal comes around between black friday and xmas.
carrierPigeon
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I think those Dell amazing deals on the TVs with a GC may be a thing of the past. They are just not having those kinds of deals for a while now.
Pretty close to ordering a Samsung UE40MU6400
Currently running dual screen setup with IPS 24" (1920x1200) & 22" (1600x1080). Been wanting something bigger for a while. Use for mixture of web, work, media and games.
Don't want to go back to the poor colours and viewing angles of TN. A 34" g-sync IPS ultra-wide looks great but can't justify the silly price when I could get a decent 40" 4k TV instead for half the price. If monitor options look much better in a few years time can always buy something new and stick the TV on a wall somewhere.
Only running a Nvidia 1070 but am prepared to turn a few settings down or experiment with running ultra-wide resolution in letter box depending on the game.
Are there any major issues with PWM, ghosting, backlight bleed, text crispness that I should be aware of before ordering?
Currently running dual screen setup with IPS 24" (1920x1200) & 22" (1600x1080). Been wanting something bigger for a while. Use for mixture of web, work, media and games.
Don't want to go back to the poor colours and viewing angles of TN. A 34" g-sync IPS ultra-wide looks great but can't justify the silly price when I could get a decent 40" 4k TV instead for half the price. If monitor options look much better in a few years time can always buy something new and stick the TV on a wall somewhere.
Only running a Nvidia 1070 but am prepared to turn a few settings down or experiment with running ultra-wide resolution in letter box depending on the game.
Are there any major issues with PWM, ghosting, backlight bleed, text crispness that I should be aware of before ordering?
I just ordered 2 more cheeeeeeapass 43" 4k TV's to play with haha. One is a Polaroid 43GSR4100 with google chromecast, and the other is the Atyme 430AM7UD dumb TV. These are both in the low $200's territory, at Target and Fry's.
I will tear them apart to see what cheap shit is inside.
They're basically this cheap because their warranty sucks.
I read that both these models are made by the same Chinese factory.
I am going to compare them to the Samsung MU6300 if they have 4k 60hz chroma 444. I hope these have an AUO panel inside.
But that's only a starting point, as it's up to the mfgr to tune the LCD.
Hisense 43" 4k TV also has AUO panel, but they fucked up the tuning /sharpening.
Stay tuned.
I will tear them apart to see what cheap shit is inside.
They're basically this cheap because their warranty sucks.
I read that both these models are made by the same Chinese factory.
I am going to compare them to the Samsung MU6300 if they have 4k 60hz chroma 444. I hope these have an AUO panel inside.
But that's only a starting point, as it's up to the mfgr to tune the LCD.
Hisense 43" 4k TV also has AUO panel, but they fucked up the tuning /sharpening.
Stay tuned.
I thought the MU series was considerably worse than the older series TV's?
For pc monitor and pc gaming they are worse. For everything thing else they are about the same. The JS and KS series are the better TVs.