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CPU load causes system to power off

F

fitzgerald

n00b
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
15
Basic scenario is this, if I put the system under high load it just powers off, like someone pulled the plug out. Under normal or medium high load its fine. In gaming its sporadic, will power off 1 time after 5 minutes, then another time will go for an hour. Playing TF2 and L4D mainly.

OK have been having issues for well over a week now, been doing lots of reading and lots of testing. Been very frustrating, reading a lot, learning a lot also cursing a lot but so be it.

System Specs new parts and old parts
Asus P5Q Pro motherboard (new)
Intel Core Due E8500 (new) [EDIT - forgot this part. Doh]
Patriot Viper (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 RAM (new) [Yes tried with 1 stick only]
0r
G.skill Black (2 x 2gb) DDR2 800 RAM (new) [Yes tried with 1 stick only]
LiteOn CD/DVD

FSP Group 600 Watt power supply (old - worked in old system before this build)
EVGA 8800GT (old - worked in old system before this build)
WD Raptor drive Boot/OS (old - worked in old system before this build)
WD Caviar drive (old - worked in old system before this build)
Audigy Soundblaster 2 (old - worked in old system before this build)


Originally thought it was a memory issue, everyone tells me its a power issue. The more I think about it and more testing I am doing now, I am starting to think that the memory is not the issue. Main reason being that I am using 2 different brands of RAM with different voltage requirements but all the same speeds and timings. I just find it odd that two different sets of memory would cause the same issue. Plus I have done multiple memory tests and they always pass.

I am now leaning more towards the CPU or how the MB interacts with it. I am not overclocking at all but been reading up on some stuff (this thread by graysky http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1198647 has been great so far) since they mess with a lot of voltage and BIOS settings to stabilize the system.

At this stage the system crashes under load (was most likely the case from the beginning). In gaming it will crash, but I still don't believe its the vid card, heat issue or the power supply. All temperatures are good, nothing is overheating. So I installed and started CPU testing using prime95. The system will crash using this, I am doing the basest of stress tests which focuses on the FPU and uses minimal memory.

My conclusions at this stage is that its not memory since memory passes tests on their own, different memory has the same results and this CPU stress test uses minimal memory. Its not the power supply, its a 600 Watt and a CPU stress test does not use 3D graphics, so its not drawing a lot of power, 600 Watts for Memory, cpu, 2 hard drives and ONLY desktop graphics is not using a lot of power. Plus I have had some moments where I games for 60 minutes without issue. So must be CPU and how it acts with the MB. SO this is where I am focusing now.


Sorry for the long post, hoping for some suggestions or insights into what types of settings in the BIOS I could try to fix this issue. Hopefully it is fixable, could the CPU be faulty in this manner? Maybe the CPU is faulty, maybe just flaky, but that's where I am at now.

Any and all help is appreciated. And by all means if I am mistaken on my assumptions or should be focusing on something else let me know.
 
A system shutting down like that will almost always be a problem with the power supply. If your previous system was not pushed as hard or didn't put the same amount of stress on certain voltages like the 12v rails, the power supply just might be adequate. Overall wattage rating doesn't really mean much. Also, the PSU could be dying. Everything you have posted points to a PSU failure and your best bet would be to find another PSU to try in the system.

Bad or flaky components such as the CPU, RAM, video card, etc will normally cause the system to crash or reboot. Bad PSUs will actually shut the system down because not enough power is available. At this point, I'd say you're lucky that nothing else has gone out. Bad and/or insufficient power can harm other components. It sounds like your PSU is doing you a favor by shutting down in order to avoid killing the rest of your system with fire.

There's a reason why you seem to be getting the same answer over and over again meaning the PSU is most likely at fault. It's not a good idea to ignore this advice over and over just because you don't want to believe it's true.

 
SmokeRngs said:
A system shutting down like that will almost always be a problem with the power supply. If your previous system was not pushed as hard or didn't put the same amount of stress on certain voltages like the 12v rails, the power supply just might be adequate. Overall wattage rating doesn't really mean much. Also, the PSU could be dying. Everything you have posted points to a PSU failure and your best bet would be to find another PSU to try in the system.

Bad or flaky components such as the CPU, RAM, video card, etc will normally cause the system to crash or reboot. Bad PSUs will actually shut the system down because not enough power is available. At this point, I'd say you're lucky that nothing else has gone out. Bad and/or insufficient power can harm other components. It sounds like your PSU is doing you a favor by shutting down in order to avoid killing the rest of your system with fire.

There's a reason why you seem to be getting the same answer over and over again meaning the PSU is most likely at fault. It's not a good idea to ignore this advice over and over just because you don't want to believe it's true.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the reply, going to argue a little and maybe that is just because I don't understand it enough. But how much power does stressing the CPU take? The old system was only different with the MB, Ram and CPU, it was an Athlon 64x 2, which I thought actually required more power than the Core2Duo.

I am not arguing because I don't want it to be true, I want to fix my PC without replacing every component. Logically the Power supply would be an issue if it happened only under gaming where the power supply is being stressed and really used. The CPU should not be sucking up or requiring that much power.

Couldn't the MB or CPU be slightly off spec and required some fine tuning or extra voltage?

Not trying to be a pain, I appreciate the help, I just want to fix the issue without spending all the money to replace the parts, if they are not the issue. I already have 2 sets of memory 1 of which I don't need/can't use.
 
OK one other thing that I forgot to mention that may or may not help diagnose. Is that when the system does power off, I cannot reboot it right away. It will start to boot and just power off again during the XP boot process. If I leave it off for 5 to 10 minutes it will boot fine and be stable until its stressed again. And nothing is over heating, nothing gets hot to the touch.
 
OK just tested with a 300 Watt power supply. Took out the GeForce 8800GT, put in a dinky 32 meg riva tnt card, just ran 1 hard drive, ran the cpu stress test and it failed after about 20-30 seconds on the same basic part as before.

So would anyone say this is an actual hardware issue with the CPU or Motherboard? I am going to test out some voltage settings, but can rule out the Vid card and the Power Supply now.
 
I have one of those APC battery power backup power supply thingies-- anyway I can push a button to show me how much power I'm using. When I load a stress tester my power usage goes from 300W to more than 500W.
 
What are your CPU temps? Sounds like it could be overheating and shutting down. Are you using the stock cooler? Check to make sure it is seated correctly. Just my thoughts.
 
Its definitely not overheating. CPU never gets above 30c in windows, HWMonitor or in BIOS.

I reseated the processor about 40 minutes ago just for the hell of it, didn't fix the problem.


old skool - the stress test you did that reported wattage going from 300 to 500, was that just CPU benchmark or did that include 3D graphics? Reason I ask is that seems like a lot of wattage for a CPU to use.
 
My first instinct would be the power supply.

But, if you are reasonably sure it isn't, it could be the power regulators on the MOBO overheating when you load the CPU. That would also explain the inability to reboot right away.

Unfortunately, it is impossible to test the mobo other than swapping it..

I kind of doubt it's the CPU or memory.

Wish I had a better answer for you.

Don
 
fitzgerald said:
Thanks for the reply, going to argue a little and maybe that is just because I don't understand it enough. But how much power does stressing the CPU take?
Click to expand...

The E8500 can use up around 34W of power by itself at full load:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/intel-wolfdale_11.html#sect0

But that's still power being used. So the PSU is still a culprit just like the rest of your system.
fitzgerald said:
Couldn't the MB or CPU be slightly off spec and required some fine tuning or extra voltage?
Click to expand...
That is a possibility. Up your CPU voltage to 1.3V and see it is still stable.

fitzgerald said:
I am going to test out some voltage settings, but can rule out the Vid card and the Power Supply now
Click to expand...
In order to get an accurate PSU voltage reading, you need to use a digital multimeter. FAQ on how to do so:
http://www.bfgpower.com/troubleshooting.html#DMM

fitzgerald said:
OK just tested with a 300 Watt power supply. Took out the GeForce 8800GT, put in a dinky 32 meg riva tnt card, just ran 1 hard drive, ran the cpu stress test and it failed after about 20-30 seconds on the same basic part as before.
Click to expand...

What 300W PSU did you use? That 300W PSU may not have had enough amperage on the +12V rail to power your system. Not all 300W PSUs are the same. Same goes for your FSP 600W PSU.

And just to rule it out:
[Testing the RAM]
Download Memtest+ v2.10 or whatever the latest version is, unzip it, burn the ISO file to a CD, and then boot from it, just like you would do with the XP install CD. Let Memtest+ run for at least three hours on each stick of RAM separately as well as test the RAM together. Go for a full 24 hours if you want to be completely sure that the RAM is not a problem. If you start seeing errors, than your RAM is defective or you have incorrect settings for the RAM.
 
I just took the system apart and put my old one back together. Tired of not having a working PC and running out of return time on the CPU. I know I just posted here yesterday but have been going at this for a few weeks. I originally had the Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R that was apparently defective. It would never run for more than 3 minutes in just bios. Normally I would just turn it on and it would power off after a few seconds. So it would either power off before post no beeps. Or it would beep once for normal start and then shutdown soon there after just in BIOS doing absolutely nothing. Did a bunch of testing on this, bought different memory screwed with settings but never got farther than that. Tried different power supply on this as well and did the same thing.


So RMA'd that board and got the Asus P5Q Pro. Now things are much better but still having issues. The power off at load problem, and yes the power off problem is similar. Not sure if this indicates a problem component. Everyone says power supply, the only other common factor is the CPU. Now ordering and getting 2 kits of faulty memory or getting back to back faulty motherboards are high on the list of improbably but not impossible. The fact that my power supply works in an Athlon AMD 64x2 system (which I just put back together and gamed fine with for hours last night) same cards still implies to me that the power supply is fine. I do believe reading (but not certain) that the Athlon used more power than the E8500.




Replies to Don & Danny Bui

The other power supply I tested with is PSU SEASONIC|SS-300ES 300W, read that it was a very solid 300 Watt power supply. Also when testing with this I removed the 8800GT and used an old 32 meg card that required little power. This is more than powerful enough to run a system with no real components.

I did run the Memtest boot cd, but I do admit I never ran them for more than an hour. But I have 4 sticks of memory from two separate kits from 2 different companies and again odds are in my favor that I do not have 4 faulty sticks of memory.

So from all of this the only components that have not been replaced once is the CPU.


Realistically at this stage I am RMA'ing the CPU and ordering a new power supply. Reasons for this are logical. The 30 days on the CPU for a return are almost up and if it turns out its bad and I miss that window I just ate the $200. My current PC which will go to the wife is running fine and has been solid and stable since I have had it. She will have a lesser vid card, but since I know the Power supply works in this system, might as well leave it there at this stage and hopefully save any future headaches when I build it for her.


If/when I get a new CPU and powersupply and still run into this problem I will be holding a bonfire in my backyard :p
 
I'd venture to say it's the PSU not jiving with something in your new setup. There are power consumption differences between motherboards as well. Or the PSU is putting out unclean power that the AMD board doesn't mind, but the Intel board just doesn't like.

I guess you'll find out when you get your new CPU and PSU.
 
PSU would be my first tought too, I would check power connection on the MB, see if the connection is tight. Ram is another thing I would look at.
 
SmokeRngs said:
A system shutting down like that will almost always be a problem with the power supply. If your previous system was not pushed as hard or didn't put the same amount of stress on certain voltages like the 12v rails, the power supply just might be adequate. Overall wattage rating doesn't really mean much. Also, the PSU could be dying. Everything you have posted points to a PSU failure and your best bet would be to find another PSU to try in the system.
Click to expand...

Like he said....

Get a good PS unit (min 600Watts) i.e ANTEC True Power that gives constant stable power at the RAILS.
 
I have tried 2 separate power supplies, both that work in other machines and have adequate power. Both have the same exact results, using different memory.

CPU temps have never gotten above 30 C

I RMA'ed the CPU last night, the return time on it is almost up and want to make sure I don't get stuck with it. Once I get a replacement will see if that was the issue or not.
 
You probably just have a POS psu and just because both of them worked in another machine doesn't mean they provide enough stable power for current tech. Just get a good PSU from a reputable PSU maker like Corsair or PC P&C and you'll be set for a couple of years.
 
I have a similar setup and I use a PC Power & Cooling 610 that I got for like 60 bucks on newegg. Its worked great for me. These days power supplies are definitely important.
 
For 2 different PSU's to have the exact same problem is highly unlikely. A 300 watt PSU running an older vid card is an adequate test in my book.

It sounds like you have ruled out about everything else. While it is rare, it is really looking like a bad CPU to me. It's too bad individual components are so hard to test.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

Don
 
Thanks Don,

building a new PC where you don't have spare parts to test is brutal when something goes wrong. So far I bought an extra memory kit cheapest & quickest part to rule out. RMA'ed a faulty Motherboard, lost some cash with shipping and restocking. I wonder if the Gigabyte board had different internal tests or processes that made the processor fail sooner (and if that board was actually good?) if that is indeed the issue. Having back to back faulty motherboards would be a special treat. Now I have RMA'ed the processor since it seems the most likely cause.

This has turned into a mission instead of happy little upgrade. Not what I had in mind.


But thanks all for the help, will let you know what happens when I get the new CPU.
 
Not sure if anyone tracks or really cares about follow-ups to these posts.

But I FINALLY got my replacement CPU from the vendor. Installed it, fired everything up and had no issues what so ever. Installed the OS with all devices attached, didn't have to jump though any hoops. Used both sticks of RAM (XP sees 3 Gig which is right). Had no glitches, power offs or hangs. Then played games for hours without issue.

Worked like it was SUPPOSED to. Anyway, really sucks that it took a couple of weeks to get the PC working. But it was the CPU and not the motherboard, power supply or any weird settings. What an annoying process that was, getting faulty parts really blows. But such is life I guess.
 
Wow, a bad CPU ... maybe the analog therm sensor was whack.
 
Nah, I'm sure it was the Flux Capacitor.

Thanks for the follow up.

Congrats on your new system.

Don
 
Congrats! Sorry to hear you had problems but hey, patience does pay off. Once, I spent like 2 months w/o a proper computer because the brand-new abit mobo decided to quit on me all of a sudden
 
Glad to hear you got it worked out. In 25 years of messing with computers personally and professionally, I've only had to replace a handful (less than 5) of CPU's due to glitches or failure. Power surges, MB's and faulty PSU's damaging CPU's have been a little higher, but rarely does the CPU just go bad on it's own.
 
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