Consumer Reports asks Microsoft to keep supporting Windows 10.

[Mazzspeed]

It was exactly 3 years ago when I had the bold idea to set up a new HTPC using linux. After days of suffering I just gave up and installed win11 on it and it just worked.

I ran a Linux based HTPC for years, I used Kodi as my front end and passed audio as multichannel PCM - Never encountered a single issue. Not too sure just what you did wrong.

 

[DukenukemX]

I ran a Linux based HTPC for years, I used Kodi as my front end and passed audio as multichannel PCM - Never encountered a single issue. Not too sure just what you did wrong.

My HTPC is running CachyOS and it has Jellyfin installed as well as Kodi. It all just works. Three years ago I remember Kodi having issues with Linux Mint as well as Ubuntu. I remember it being a big pain in the ass for something as simple as Kodi. Maybe that's what M76 ran into?

 

[Mazzspeed]

My HTPC is running CachyOS and it has Jellyfin installed as well as Kodi. It all just works. Three years ago I remember Kodi having issues with Linux Mint as well as Ubuntu. I remember it being a big pain in the ass for something as simple as Kodi. Maybe that's what M76 ran into?

I can't help but get the feeling that "my muscle memory can only handle Windows, so everything else is stuck in 2005" is simply the avoidance of learning something new.

Because Linux has advanced as fast as any other OS, and editing text files under Linux is no harder than the same thing under Windows - lest we forget the often necessary editing of the Windows registry.

 

[M76]

I can't help but get the feeling that "my muscle memory can only handle Windows, so everything else is stuck in 2020" is simply the avoidance of learning something new.

Because Linux has advanced as fast as any other OS, and editing text files under Linux is no harder than the same thing under Windows - lest we forget the often necessary editing of the Windows registry.

More like stuck in 2005. I don't remember when I've had to edit the registry manually, as most things can be done through gpedit, where you know exactly what each option does. And even if I had to edit the registry manually regedit is still more user friendly than a collection of unstructured conf files.

My HTPC is running CachyOS and it has Jellyfin installed as well as Kodi. It all just works. Three years ago I remember Kodi having issues with Linux Mint as well as Ubuntu. I remember it being a big pain in the ass for something as simple as Kodi. Maybe that's what M76 ran into?

Possibly because I was using or trying to use mint as that was the actual "windows killer" of the day. But I've also ran into sound and display driver issues, and the whole system was lagging.

 

[cpufrost]

No love for 2000?

 

[Mazzspeed]

More like stuck in 2005. I don't remember when I've had to edit the registry manually, as most things can be done through gpedit, where you know exactly what each option does. And even if I had to edit the registry manually regedit is still more user friendly than a collection of unstructured conf files.

Yeah..Not really.

You don't even need to manually edit fstab anymore, Gnome disks will do all that via the GUI quite easily and has done so since about 2013. Furthermore, there's little that's user friendly editing the Windows registry using regedit over a plain 'ol text file considering very few online 'fixes' make use of gpedit - Especially considering the plain 'ol text file is as verbose and easy to understand as gpedit and able to be tweaked quickly and easily under a terminal session via ssh. I'm sorry, but as stated, the excuse that your muscle memory tapped out at Windows reads as no more than a plain 'ol refusal to learn something new - it actually sounds like you haven't used a Linux distro since 2005 when you consider just how easy modern Linux is to use; even Arch is simple with the advent of distro's such as CachyOS. Windows is not the benchmark every other OS has to aspire to, when the reality is it's popularity has more to do with the fact it's on the device when purchased, as opposed to the belief that it's the best operating system in general ever made.

Linux has advanced just as fast, if not faster, than Windows. Linux is not intended to be some Windows clone anymore than MacOS is a Windows clone. If you expected a Windows clone, best you stick with Windows.

 

[M76]

Yeah..Not really.

That's just a nu-uh.

You don't even need to manually edit fstab anymore, Gnome disks will do all that via the GUI quite easily and has done so since about 2013.

We've been through this with another Linux advocate here, so I'll make it brief: You don't have to do it as much as before but you'll encounter something rather sooner than later.

Furthermore, there's little that's user friendly editing the Windows registry using regedit over a plain 'ol text file considering very few online 'fixes' make use of gpedit - Especially considering the plain 'ol text file is as verbose and easy to understand as gpedit and able to be tweaked quickly and easily under a terminal session via ssh.

I just had to search for an issue yesterday on a newly bought laptop and the answer was gpedit. I don't remember when I had to edit the registry directly the last time for something. Not because my memory is going bad, but because it was so long ago.

I'm sorry, but as stated, the excuse that your muscle memory tapped out at Windows reads as no more than a plain 'ol refusal to learn something new

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? First you said you no longer have to do it, now you say I just refuse to learn it. Pick a lane.

- it actually sounds like you haven't used a Linux distro since 2005 when you consider just how easy modern Linux is to use; even Arch is simple with the advent of distro's such as CachyOS.

I've been using linux since 2005, on and off. I'm still running a linux server that I constantly have to deal with, and it's never not been an absolute nightmare for me. I dread even looking into it each time there is something up, and I'm often left to figure it out on my own, because the sysadmins we pay just put up their hands and say IDK. Last time I ended up dealing with it until 2AM. And even after all this I'm still gullible enough to try out a new-new distro at home. So your claim that I'm just refusing to learn couldn't be more off the mark.

Windows is not the benchmark every other OS has to aspire to, when the reality is it's popularity has more to do with the fact it's on the device when purchased, as opposed to the belief that it's the best operating system in general ever made.

We've been through this also. Where I live the majority of computers didn't come with windows, and they still do not today. I just had to buy a new laptop for my co-worker and finding one that actually came with windows was quite difficult. Filter the list for required specs and price got about 20 hits, filter that to windows ones, and I got 1 - on order wait time 3-4 months. I finally found one display piece at a shop that could be had on short notice. This practice still didn't make linux more popular here compared to the US where you can hardly buy a computer without windows. Is windows the best? What metric would you even measure that by? It is certainly the most popular. And it didn't become most popular because it came pre-installed on every PC. It started to be bundled with every PC because it was the most popular.

Linux has advanced just as fast, if not faster, than Windows. Linux is not intended to be some Windows clone anymore than MacOS is a Windows clone. If you expected a Windows clone, best you stick with Windows.

Linux advanced faster and it's still not good enough. Especially considering that windows has been devolving since 7. This just says how far behind linux used to be. You're kind of advocating for windows if you think the only way linux can be as user friendly as windows if it becomes a windows clone.

But 99% of my issues with linux is not even with the GUI, it wasn't even back in 2005. But how much you can't achive through using the GUI. If it's not for a built in function then for some app you downloaded. And yes that counts, because the whole ecosystem is built like this. I prefer guis over command lines and options menus over text files. And sadly with cross platform apps this even bleeds through to windows in some cases.

 

[Prince Valiant]

But 99% of my issues with linux is not even with the GUI, it wasn't even back in 2005. But how much you can't achive through using the GUI. If it's not for a built in function then for some app you downloaded. And yes that counts, because the whole ecosystem is built like this. I prefer guis over command lines and options menus over text files. And sadly with cross platform apps this even bleeds through to windows in some cases.

May as well skip trying Linux.

 

[MrGuvernment]

.....

I've been using linux since 2005, on and off. I'm still running a linux server that I constantly have to deal with, and it's never not been an absolute nightmare for me. I dread even looking into it each time there is something up, and I'm often left to figure it out on my own, because the sysadmins we pay just put up their hands and say IDK. Last time I ended up dealing with it until 2AM. And even after all this I'm still gullible enough to try out a new-new distro at home. So your claim that I'm just refusing to learn couldn't be more off the mark.

This sounds like a configuration problem, or trying to make it do something it wasn't meant to do?

Can you go into detail as to the problems and why you have to constantly deal with it?

I've run my share of "Linux servers" over the decades for various things, from webservers, to reverse proxies, SSL offloaders, storage servers and some other one off's and they just "worked"...

 

[LigTasm]

But 99% of my issues with linux is not even with the GUI, it wasn't even back in 2005. But how much you can't achive through using the GUI. If it's not for a built in function then for some app you downloaded. And yes that counts, because the whole ecosystem is built like this. I prefer guis over command lines and options menus over text files. And sadly with cross platform apps this even bleeds through to windows in some cases.

This is my big beef as well, I work 12 hours a day. I do not have the time or energy to screw around with text line commands to get the audio to work on a youtube video because alsa doesn't support my super common on every single board made in the last 18 years sound chip or some nonsense like that. Theres always something that doesn't work and it something I need to have.

 

[Aurelius]

Thinking about it the new statscounter makes sense if you remember school just started. Windows 7 went up because a lot of schools probably have computers that still run Windows 7. Linux went down because schools aren't going to deal with your inability to install software meant for Windows. ChromeOS went up by .18%, which is probably due to school. MacOS went down for the same reason why Apple is making A-series based Macbooks, because Windows laptops are affordable.

That makes sense. On that note: Apple has largely tried to promote iPad adoption in school, which only works in certain circumstances. A $549 education-discounted A-series MacBook still wouldn't be cheap for a cash-strapped school board, but it's a lot easier to handle than an $899 MacBook Air or even an iPad + keyboard combo ($558).

 

[MrGuvernment]

This is my big beef as well, I work 12 hours a day. I do not have the time or energy to screw around with text line commands to get the audio to work on a youtube video because alsa doesn't support my super common on every single board made in the last 18 years sound chip or some nonsense like that. Theres always something that doesn't work and it something I need to have.

Always interesting to hear this, since moving to Mint/Manjaro/Debian (i like to change a couple times a year to play) out of the box all my hear works, including my Fiio X3 / K dock out of the box, where as Windows, I have to install drivers for it.....

 

[Mazzspeed]

That's just a nu-uh.

We've been through this with another Linux advocate here, so I'll make it brief: You don't have to do it as much as before but you'll encounter something rather sooner than later.

I just had to search for an issue yesterday on a newly bought laptop and the answer was gpedit. I don't remember when I had to edit the registry directly the last time for something. Not because my memory is going bad, but because it was so long ago.

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? First you said you no longer have to do it, now you say I just refuse to learn it. Pick a lane.

I've been using linux since 2005, on and off. I'm still running a linux server that I constantly have to deal with, and it's never not been an absolute nightmare for me. I dread even looking into it each time there is something up, and I'm often left to figure it out on my own, because the sysadmins we pay just put up their hands and say IDK. Last time I ended up dealing with it until 2AM. And even after all this I'm still gullible enough to try out a new-new distro at home. So your claim that I'm just refusing to learn couldn't be more off the mark.

We've been through this also. Where I live the majority of computers didn't come with windows, and they still do not today. I just had to buy a new laptop for my co-worker and finding one that actually came with windows was quite difficult. Filter the list for required specs and price got about 20 hits, filter that to windows ones, and I got 1 - on order wait time 3-4 months. I finally found one display piece at a shop that could be had on short notice. This practice still didn't make linux more popular here compared to the US where you can hardly buy a computer without windows. Is windows the best? What metric would you even measure that by? It is certainly the most popular. And it didn't become most popular because it came pre-installed on every PC. It started to be bundled with every PC because it was the most popular.

Linux advanced faster and it's still not good enough. Especially considering that windows has been devolving since 7. This just says how far behind linux used to be. You're kind of advocating for windows if you think the only way linux can be as user friendly as windows if it becomes a windows clone.

But 99% of my issues with linux is not even with the GUI, it wasn't even back in 2005. But how much you can't achive through using the GUI. If it's not for a built in function then for some app you downloaded. And yes that counts, because the whole ecosystem is built like this. I prefer guis over command lines and options menus over text files. And sadly with cross platform apps this even bleeds through to windows in some cases.

You encounter something sooner or later under Windows. This isn't a problem limited to Linux, or any other OS for that matter. As for the registry, as a tech I'm constantly applying registry fixes for common Windows problems - Not one of them use gpedit. As for your comment regarding needing gpedit to resolve a problem on a new Windows laptop, you've just contradicted yourself regarding your opening statement implying it's only Linux that suffers problems 'sooner rather than later'.

Personally, I've been using Linux full time since 2013, and I've encountered few dealbreaker issues. It is somewhat odd that you're a sysadmin that can't manage a basic Linux install; I turn PC on, PC goes burrr. Your locale selling devices without Windows installed would be the exception to the rule, almost everywhere else in the world it's near impossible to buy a device without Windows pre installed and is therefore the very reason for the popularity of Windows as an OS in general. Furthermore, Windows started being bundled with every PC due to corporate deals as a result of the fact Microsoft has a very effective marketing department - In comparison, Linux does not have a marketing department.

I'm running two Linux desktops here, one running KDE Neon 6.4.5, one running CachyOS with Plasma 6.4.5 - Both run like clockwork and see vast improvements with every update, Linux now even supports HDR and VRR and as stated Arch is now more than usable by the masses as a result of distro's like CachyOS. The fact you can't work it out by no means indicates Linux isn't advancing fast enough, you're simply being hypercritical of something you don't fully understand. I've also got a number of Linux servers here, and all I have to do is ssh into them and perform periodic updates, I'm not too sure just what you're doing wrong.

As for the GUI, not only am I constantly using CLI tools under Windows to resolve issues; users in these very forums advise on the use of tools requiring the use of the CLI under Windows (Massgrave anyone?). Using CachyOS as an example, kernels and other tweakable parameters can be accessed and installed via the GUI using CachyOS Kernel Manager. Frequently used software packages can be installed using CachyOS Package Installer, and even more packages avaliable via the official Arch repo's and the AUR can be installed using Octopi - However, I personally perfer the use of paru under terminal, and find GUI methods slower to use than terminal and find terminal vastly more efficient to use regarding a server via SSH. If I want to install TVheadend to set up a TV server, I SSH into the server, add the TVheadend repo, update my package list, and install TVheadend using the following commands under an Ubuntu LTS based server:

curl -1sLf 'https://dl.cloudsmith.io/public/tvheadend/tvheadend/setup.deb.sh' | sudo -E bash
sudo apt update
sudo apt install tvheadend

It's all remarkably straightforward and efficient, a simple copy/paste, with the install process being very verbose under terminal showing me exactly what's going on in plain english - Far better than some progress bar that often is just a line bouncing backwards and forwards. It actually works so well that Microsoft released their own package manager called winget that I use from time to time as it's easier than searching for software via Google, downloading the installer, and clicking Accept > Yes > Yes > Next > OK.

As stated, if you want the Windows expereince, use Windows. Linux is an OS unto itself, it's not a Windows clone. In stating Linux is not a Windows clone I am accepting that Linux is an OS unto itself, I'm by no means stating that I believe Linux should be a Windows clone. The idea that every other OS has advanced while Linux is still 'stuck in 2005' quite simply holds absolutely no merit whatsoever.

 

[LigTasm]

Always interesting to hear this, since moving to Mint/Manjaro/Debian (i like to change a couple times a year to play) out of the box all my hear works, including my Fiio X3 / K dock out of the box, where as Windows, I have to install drivers for it.....

I've tried dozens of times, I used to run custom kernel for folding as well. There is always some stupid issue that forces me to go search on reddit and try to pry the knowledge out of sweaty nerds the revel in their superior intellect while living in moms basement with zero bills to worry about. At the end of the day, open source with no driving motivation behind it other than "be more different than the other 9203 branches" isn't going anywhere.

 

[Axman]

Possibly because I was using or trying to use mint as that was the actual "windows killer" of the day.

Eh, Mint was already on the decline even then.

 

[Mazzspeed]

Eh, Mint was already on the decline even then.

Mint is one of the most overrated distro's of all time, why people keep recommending it to transitioning Windows users when the KDE DE is more like the Windows desktop simply defies logic.

This is my big beef as well, I work 12 hours a day. I do not have the time or energy to screw around with text line commands to get the audio to work on a youtube video because alsa doesn't support my super common on every single board made in the last 18 years sound chip or some nonsense like that. Theres always something that doesn't work and it something I need to have.

As sated, I've been running Linux full time since 2013, and I've never had to do this. Granted, it could be a problem if you've spun up your own arch install - But these days most Linux newcomers would be using distro's like EndeavourOS or CachyOS, making such problems moot due to Linux advances and packaged Arch based distro's.

 

[DukenukemX]

Possibly because I was using or trying to use mint as that was the actual "windows killer" of the day. But I've also ran into sound and display driver issues, and the whole system was lagging.

That's the last thing I'd expect as an issue on Linux. I was using Linux Mint since 2014 and performance issues weren't a thing. Kodi was crashing when I was streaming from Jellyfin due to a bug introduced in Ubuntu 22.04, which of course carried over to Mint. It was eventually fixed with an update but Kodi has been an on and off problem for Ubuntu based distros for me. This is why I'm on CachyOS because Arch based distros tend to have less of these problems.

That makes sense. On that note: Apple has largely tried to promote iPad adoption in school, which only works in certain circumstances. A $549 education-discounted A-series MacBook still wouldn't be cheap for a cash-strapped school board, but it's a lot easier to handle than an $899 MacBook Air or even an iPad + keyboard combo ($558).

If iPads were selling well then why would Apple put iPad/iPhone chips into a Macbook? Something to think about as to why they're putting A-series chips in Macbooks. Schools would almost always rather go with Windows because they may have equipment that would only work on a Windows device. A $300 Windows laptop is still a better deal when you need to operate an old USB-A based device that you know schools are riddled with. If they have drivers that only work with Windows 7 then they install Windows 7. So there you go.

Personally, I've been using Linux full time since 2013, and I've encountered few dealbreaker issues. It is somewhat odd that you're a sysadmin that can't manage a basic Linux install, I turn PC on, PC goes burrr. Your locale selling devices without Windows installed would be the exception to the rule, almost everywhere else in the world it's near impossible to buy a device without Windows pre installed and is therefore the very reason for the popularity of Windows as an OS in general.

For me it was a different story as I've had PCs with Linux installed but never my main PC until 2021. This is because a lot of stuff just didn't work. It wasn't until the introduction of Proton and a major shift in Wine development is when I saw the perfect opportunity to switch over.

 

[Mazzspeed]

That's the last thing I'd expect as an issue on Linux. I was using Linux Mint since 2014 and performance issues weren't a thing. Kodi was crashing when I was streaming from Jellyfin due to a bug introduced in Ubuntu 22.04, which of course carried over to Mint. It was eventually fixed with an update but Kodi has been an on and off problem for Ubuntu based distros for me. This is why I'm on CachyOS because Arch based distros tend to have less of these problems.

That had to be a Mint specific issue. I was running Kodi under KDE Neon, which was at the time based on 22.04, and Kodi was faultless for me. If it wasn't for the fact I got a Google streamer and run Kodi on the 'Google box', I'd still be running Kodi off my KDE Neon based HTPC.

 

[DukenukemX]

That had to be a Mint specific issue. I was running Kodi under KDE Neon, which was at the time based on 22.04, and Kodi was faultless for me. If it wasn't for the fact I got a Google streamer and run Kodi on the 'Google box', I'd still be running Kodi off my KDE Neon based HTPC.

It was effecting Ubuntu as well, but it was a specific issue where you had to stream certain video content like from Jellyfin.

 

[Mazzspeed]

It was effecting Ubuntu as well, but it was a specific issue where you had to stream certain video content like from Jellyfin.

Doesn't Jellyfin transcode? You don't need to transcode under Kodi. I just have everything set up as an NFS/SMB share and Kodi doesn't miss a beat.

 

[Aurelius]

If iPads were selling well then why would Apple put iPad/iPhone chips into a Macbook? Something to think about as to why they're putting A-series chips in Macbooks. Schools would almost always rather go with Windows because they may have equipment that would only work on a Windows device. A $300 Windows laptop is still a better deal when you need to operate an old USB-A based device that you know schools are riddled with. If they have drivers that only work with Windows 7 then they install Windows 7. So there you go.

iPads are doing well thanks to the spring iPad refreshes (and enduring interest in the iPad Pro), but I also suspect Apple knows it can only reach so many people with tablets in their current form. School administrators might see iPads as both relatively expensive and logistically messy (some of those keyboard cases are bound to go missing). This fabled MacBook might be cheaper and easier to maintain in the long term.

There are problems with the $300 Windows laptop argument. I'm not sure that there really is a surfeit of legacy, Windows-only school equipment. USB-A microscopes? The schools that have spent the past several years adopting Chromebooks likely aren't relying on such gear, and might not actually want students connecting peripherals as it is (hello, security risks). And let's not forget that it's currently difficult to find a new Windows laptop at the $300 mark — schools aren't going to.buy two- or three-year-old refurbs as they need both adequate supply and support contracts.

Don't get me wrong, schools that do rely on Windows will be understandably reluctant to switch to anything else, and may hold on to an old version of Windows simply because they can't upgrade without replacing hardware or key apps. It's just that the field is more open than you think.

 

[DukenukemX]

Doesn't Jellyfin transcode? You don't need to transcode under Kodi. I just have everything set up as an NFS/SMB share and Kodi doesn't miss a beat.

These are Kodi setups from not in the same home. I would install the Jellyfin addon and then direct it to the Jellyfin server. The problem was that Kodi would crash and it was because of a dependency that had a bug that was fixed but Ubuntu was using an outdated version.

iPads are doing well thanks to the spring iPad refreshes (and enduring interest in the iPad Pro), but I also suspect Apple knows it can only reach so many people with tablets in their current form. School administrators might see iPads as both relatively expensive and logistically messy (some of those keyboard cases are bound to go missing). This fabled MacBook might be cheaper and easier to maintain in the long term.

It just seems like Apple is trying hard to make iPads happen. Apple puts M-series chips into iPads in hopes to get more sales, but forgot iPadOS is terrible. So now they're putting in A-series chips into Macbooks to bring down the cost to iPad levels because more people buy Macbooks over iPads. You don't do these things if iPads can actually replace a PC.

There are problems with the $300 Windows laptop argument. I'm not sure that there really is a surfeit of legacy, Windows-only school equipment. USB-A microscopes? The schools that have spent the past several years adopting Chromebooks likely aren't relying on such gear, and might not actually want students connecting peripherals as it is (hello, security risks).

Chromebooks haven't been doing so well according to statcounter.

And let's not forget that it's currently difficult to find a new Windows laptop at the $300 mark — schools aren't going to.buy two- or three-year-old refurbs as they need both adequate supply and support contracts.

All I can find is this $220 laptop. Finding $300 Windows laptops is a very easy task.

 

[Aurelius]

It just seems like Apple is trying hard to make iPads happen. Apple puts M-series chips into iPads in hopes to get more sales, but forgot iPadOS is terrible. So now they're putting in A-series chips into Macbooks to bring down the cost to iPad levels because more people buy Macbooks over iPads. You don't do these things if iPads can actually replace a PC.

Apple released the powerful hardware before the software was ready to make good use of it, to be clear, but I'd give iPadOS 26 a go before you reach a definitive conclusion.

It still has some iPad quirks and isn't for some pros, but it finally does something people have been wanting since 2010: a desktop-like UI when you want it, but a simple UI when you don't. And unlike Microsoft, it's not just shoving a desktop OS into a tablet with modest adjustments for touchscreen use.

I see Apple as trying to both widen options in the short term and, in the long run, tackle the concept of touch computing from two angles. It's making the iPad more desktop-like, but it's also making the Mac more iPad-like with cheaper models and (if long-term rumors are accurate) touchscreens. Part of this is "see what sticks;" part of this is accommodating different preferences and use cases.

Chromebooks haven't been doing so well according to statcounter.

They haven't (though I'm thinking more of sales data, not usage trackers), but that still means those schools haven't been relying on Windows-only peripherals for a while, if ever. They're more likely to lean on projectors and other devices that are platform-independent.

All I can find is this $220 laptop. Finding $300 Windows laptops is a very easy task.

That's an old system (Core i3, really?) from a tiny brand... definitely not what a school would buy in bulk.

Finding brand new $300 Windows laptops from reputable brands is difficult. Now, there are some systems that come close (Dell has a $350 ruggedized Latitude convertible for education), but it's easier to find options in the $400-500 range.

 

[DukenukemX]

Apple released the powerful hardware before the software was ready to make good use of it, to be clear, but I'd give iPadOS 26 a go before you reach a definitive conclusion.

If Apple puts A-series chips into Macbooks then MacOS is clearly the desired OS over iPadOS.

I see Apple as trying to both widen options in the short term and, in the long run, tackle the concept of touch computing from two angles. It's making the iPad more desktop-like, but it's also making the Mac more iPad-like with cheaper models and (if long-term rumors are accurate) touchscreens. Part of this is "see what sticks;" part of this is accommodating different preferences and use cases.

Apple has been pushing users to get iPads for a while now. Ever wonder why Macbooks don't have touchscreens but most Windows laptops do? I never use the feature but it's nice to have.

That's an old system (Core i3, really?) from a tiny brand... definitely not what a school would buy in bulk.

Why would schools care? You think a Chromebook with a powerful CPU would matter? Schools want them for basic tasks just like with Chromebooks. The CPU does not matter unless they need something for ART.

Finding brand new $300 Windows laptops from reputable brands is difficult. Now, there are some systems that come close (Dell has a $350 ruggedized Latitude convertible for education), but it's easier to find options in the $400-500 range.

Have you seen Chromebooks? Not exactly quality built. Here's that Dell you were probably thinking of. Here's a $275 laptop from Asus. Point is they exist and are plentiful and will take the place of a Chromebook very easily. Quality sucks but schools have a budget and it isn't getting better under the Trump administration. The fact these run Windows means anything you throw at them will work.

 

[M76]

This sounds like a configuration problem, or trying to make it do something it wasn't meant to do?

You're telling me there is something that linux isn't meant to do? Before it was the windows killer the usual sales pitch was "it might not be good for desktop but it is unbeatable as a server".

Can you go into detail as to the problems and why you have to constantly deal with it?

Constantly is a bit of an exaggeration, more like occasionally. The latest issue was that apache wouldn't properly restart after a power outage. Dunno why, when it used to work prior to that. And while I was trying to figure it out I mistakenly started the service as a different user than it was supposed to run as. Which instantly borked all permissions, and I had to spend the rest of the evening / night resetting permissions over SSH for all affected files. Sure it is user error, but the fact that such a minor thing can cause such major fallout is why I hate dealing with linux.

I inherited this system, so the whole setup is a bit of a black box to me.

I've run my share of "Linux servers" over the decades for various things, from webservers, to reverse proxies, SSL offloaders, storage servers and some other one off's and they just "worked"...

Had I set up the server maybe it would just work, at least the ones I set up with CentOS worked until they were someone else's responsibility. But I still hated working with those.

 

[M76]

You encounter something sooner or later under Windows. This isn't a problem limited to Linux, or any other OS for that matter. As for the registry, as a tech I'm constantly applying registry fixes for common Windows problems - Not one of them use gpedit. As for your comment regarding needing gpedit to resolve a problem on a new Windows laptop, you've just contradicted yourself regarding your opening statement implying it's only Linux that suffers problems 'sooner rather than later'.

The sooner later than later pertained to editing text files on linux, not using gpedit on windows. gpedit is a GUI tool, there is no equivalence. You could maybe argue that you have to use regedit eventually on windows but it's more like later or never. Even most of the hacks that do require new registry entries can be downloaded and applied by double clicking on them.

It is somewhat odd that you're a sysadmin that can't manage a basic Linux install; I turn PC on, PC goes burrr.

I didn't say I was a sysadmin. Just that I'm dealing with the issues the paid sysadmins didn't want to touch.

If you mean PC goes burrr, like it did when we had an IRQ conflict in the olden days then true, because that's exactly what linux mint did for me.

In comparison, Linux does not have a marketing department.

There are / were several commercial distros that did have marketing like suse and redhat. Otherwise you're just restating your original assertion that windows is only popular because it came pre-installed on PCs. I know that's not true, when win95 came out we couldn't wait to get our hands on a copy. When one of my friends got hold of an install disk from his dad's workplace the disc landed in my cd-rom drive before we were through the front door. So don't tell me that's because it came pre-installed on PCs. Everyone was excited for windows 95, it made computers far more mainstream than they used to be before that. It was even featured in a local soap opera there was such a buzz.

The fact you can't work it out by no means indicates Linux isn't advancing fast enough,

Au contraire if I can't figure it out with 30+ years of experience what hope does a typical non-enthusiast have when they run into an issue?

and all I have to do is ssh into them and perform periodic updates,

You shouldn't need to log in to a working system at all. my windows home server can run unattended for months on end without logging into it. No need for manual maintenance, and it's not even a server edition.

It's all remarkably straightforward and efficient, a simple copy/paste,

CLI is remarkably straightforward for things you do routinely, so you can recall the commands from memory. It is complicated and cumbersome for things you only need to do once or so rarely that you have to look up the necessary commands every time.

CLI is also useful for batch processing so i can write scripts for a process to run unattended on large amounts of data. But I'd still prefer a proper batch processing GUI over CLI tools, they are just better than not having batch processing capability at all.

with the install process being very verbose under terminal showing me exactly what's going on in plain english - Far better than some progress bar that often is just a line bouncing backwards and forwards.

Now you are going into the territory of hyperbole. Just because there is text on screen does not give you the faintest idea where you are in the process. All you can do is pray that it completes without error, but will it be 10 seconds or 10 minutes? Who knows.

It actually works so well that Microsoft released their own package manager called winget that I use from time to time as it's easier than searching for software via Google, downloading the installer, and clicking Accept > Yes > Yes > Next > OK.

But I need to search for the command line tool on google too, how could I use a CLI tool to download software that I don't know the name of or that it even exists? And after I found it isn't it easier to just click download, than copy pasting the name of it into the command line?

As stated, if you want the Windows expereince, use Windows. Linux is an OS unto itself, it's not a Windows clone. In stating Linux is not a Windows clone I am accepting that Linux is an OS unto itself, I'm by no means stating that I believe Linux should be a Windows clone. The idea that every other OS has advanced while Linux is still 'stuck in 2005' quite simply holds absolutely no merit whatsoever.

Android is also an OS unto itself yet it is not plagued by the issues of linux. I didn't say linux did not advance at all since 2005, just that fundamentally it is the same, because I'm running into the exact same issues with it now as I did then, only less frequently.

 

[Mazzspeed]

The sooner later than later pertained to editing text files on linux, not using gpedit on windows. gpedit is a GUI tool, there is no equivalence. You could maybe argue that you have to use regedit eventually on windows but it's more like later or never. Even most of the hacks that do require new registry entries can be downloaded and applied by double clicking on them.

At the end of the day, you're trying to deflect the shortcomings of regedit, and regedit is intended to be the primary means of editing the Windows registry as opposed to gpedit which is primarily intended to be used for the editing of group policy - And regedit is completely counterintuitive compared to a plain text file in plain English. Effectively, your argument isn't based on whether the interface is a point and click GUI or a text file edited under some form of CLI - Your whole argument is based on the fact that gpedit is actually intuitive due to the fact it actually uses plain English compared to regedit.

The problem is:

1. Plain text files are every bit as intuitive due to the fact that they are, also, in plain English. Plain text files can also be downloaded and applied in the instance it's easier than uncommenting single lines within a text file; however like downloading and installing registry modifications, it's not something I'd generally recommend and is usually bad practice.
2. I've managed Windows based systems, GPMC is more commonly used by sysadmins making changes to GPO to be applied domain wide via AD. Sure, you'll encounter limited scenario's where local GPO is modified using gpedit - But realistically they're few and far between as making changes to GPO on one local machine is simply bad practice. Gpedit was never intended to be used as a means to edit the Windows registry, hence the reason regedit exists.

When you consider that both GPMC/gpedit and plain text files all use plain English - There is definite equivalence.

If you mean PC goes burrr, like it did when we had an IRQ conflict in the olden days then true, because that's exactly what linux mint did for me.

Linux Mint is rubbish, I never stated otherwise - Stating so by no means implies that Linux as a whole is stuck in 2005. Having said that, I haven't encountered an IRQ conflict since I was running a Soundblaster 16 on a 486 running DOS while playing DOOM.

You seem to be forming an opinion on Linux as a whole based on one over rated distro that you ran once as well as a server you 'inherited' - Hating on a majority as a result of two instances is remarkably short sighted, especially when the issues you experienced regarding the inherited server could just as easily have happened under Windows.

You shouldn't need to log in to a working system at all. my windows home server can run unattended for months on end without logging into it. No need for manual maintenance, and it's not even a server edition.

Both Ubuntu and Debian support unattended upgrades when it comes to OS updates, generally speaking user installed software also updates alongside OS updates - However when it comes to servers where stability and compatibility are paramount over everything else, unattended updates aren't recommended and are once again bad practice no matter what OS is used.

CLI is remarkably straightforward for things you do routinely, so you can recall the commands from memory. It is complicated and cumbersome for things you only need to do once or so rarely that you have to look up the necessary commands every time.

And yet, the commands that I can recall from memory that I use routinely are literally the only commands I need to remember. This is really no different to a GUI where I can't always instantly recall the exact location of a particular GPO under the hierarchical structure of the particular GPMC group policy tree due to the fact it's not a GPO I modify routinely - Sometimes some research and clicking through trees is required.

It has to be stated that you can add bokmarks as well as quick commands to most terminal shells for quick and easy recall.

Now you are going into the territory of hyperbole. Just because there is text on screen does not give you the faintest idea where you are in the process. All you can do is pray that it completes without error, but will it be 10 seconds or 10 minutes? Who knows.

And yet the reality is that it's far easier to get lost in a hierarchical GUI structure like that provided under gpedit or GPMC than it is to get lost in a plain text file under Linux. Furthermore, when it comes to software configuration, your GUI management consoles are basically useless.

It's not uncommon for certain software packages, even under Windows, to use plain text configuration files due to the fact they're a quick and efficient way to modify settings as opposed to clicking through branching trees of GUI based interfaces. Furthermore, in the instance the software GUI crashes making settings inaccessible, the plain text configuration file is a godsend.

But I need to search for the command line tool on google too, how could I use a CLI tool to download software that I don't know the name of or that it even exists? And after I found it isn't it easier to just click download, than copy pasting the name of it into the command line?

Under Windows, you use:

winget search [application name]

Under Arch I use paru and enter:

paru [application name]

Once you get used to package managers, Google searching for an installer and clicking YES > NEXT > OK > APPLY > FINISH becomes archaic and somewhat ass backwards. This evening I wanted to rip a CD using k3b, so I opened terminal and entered:

paru k3b

Which produced the following result:

1 cachyos-extra-v4/k3b 1:25.08.1-2.1 [0 B 35.07 MiB] [Installed] (kde-applications kde-multimedia)
Feature-rich and easy to handle CD burning application
2 extra/k3b 1:25.08.1-2 [10.95 MiB 34.49 MiB] [Installed: 1:25.08.1-2.1] (kde-applications kde-multimedia)
Feature-rich and easy to handle CD burning application
3 aur/k3b-git 24.04.70.r7146.0e1739a97-1 [+27 ~0.00]
Feature-rich and easy to handle CD burning application. (Git version)
:: Packages to install (eg: 1 2 3, 1-3):
:

I typed '1' to install the software via the CachyOS repo's, the software installed in a very verbose manner informing me of exactly what was happening every step of the way, and in seconds I was done.

Android is also an OS unto itself yet it is not plagued by the issues of linux. I didn't say linux did not advance at all since 2005, just that fundamentally it is the same, because I'm running into the exact same issues with it now as I did then, only less frequently.

And yet even Android is reintroducing the terminal in a move that's highly praised. Furthermore, modern Linux had evolved dramatically since 2005 - This comment is quite simply ignorant and seems to be based around the fact that the use of terminal never disappeared, mostly due to the fact that's it's still a very effective implementation with notable benefits over a GUI.

...


At the end of the day, if you want to talk 'hyperbole', your whole argument regarding CLI vs GUI is based around exaggerated statements as a result of what appears to be either a blind fear of terminal or an inability to learn something new. I'm done here, there's nothing more to discuss. If you prefer Windows, use Windows - I really don't care.

 

[Aurelius]

If Apple puts A-series chips into Macbooks then MacOS is clearly the desired OS over iPadOS.

Not really. Apple wouldn't have invested in a major, computer-style overhaul of iPadOS if it didn't think iPads had viability. Again, it's about approaching similar markets and issues from different angles.

Apple has been pushing users to get iPads for a while now. Ever wonder why Macbooks don't have touchscreens but most Windows laptops do? I never use the feature but it's nice to have.

Apple has explicitly said, repeatedly, why it doesn't do touchscreens in laptops: it doesn't feel that constantly reaching up to a screen makes for a good experience (true or not, that's what it's saying). That's why the Magic Keyboard line has trackpads.

"Most" is not supported by the evidence. The latest data is from 2023, but that showed just 29% of premium ($800+) Windows laptops coming with touchscreens, with an even lower ratio for systems under $800. I think touch is a nice-to-have, but it's squandered when very little of Windows is actually touch-friendly. This is probably why Apple's rumored touchscreen MacBooks aren't coming for a while (UI updates in the past few years have suggested the company is leading up to them), and why Google is moving to Android PCs instead of ChromeOS.

Why would schools care? You think a Chromebook with a powerful CPU would matter? Schools want them for basic tasks just like with Chromebooks. The CPU does not matter unless they need something for ART.

Raw performance they don't care about, but when it's slow and old they do. It's not just premature obsolesence — it's what happens when the school needs to repair or replace broken systems. It can't go back to a third-party reseller and ask if that old system is still in stock. The manufacturer might stop supporting a given model before the school is ready to move on. And of course, schools aren't going to mix and match vendors or models if they can avoid it.

Have you seen Chromebooks? Not exactly quality built. Here's that Dell you were probably thinking of. Here's a $275 laptop from Asus. Point is they exist and are plentiful and will take the place of a Chromebook very easily. Quality sucks but schools have a budget and it isn't getting better under the Trump administration. The fact these run Windows means anything you throw at them will work.

Oh, I know most Chromebooks are cheap and pokey, and that some Windows systems will fit the bill. It's just harder to find them.

 

[MrGuvernment]

You're telling me there is something that linux isn't meant to do? Before it was the windows killer the usual sales pitch was "it might not be good for desktop but it is unbeatable as a server".

Constantly is a bit of an exaggeration, more like occasionally. The latest issue was that apache wouldn't properly restart after a power outage. Dunno why, when it used to work prior to that. And while I was trying to figure it out I mistakenly started the service as a different user than it was supposed to run as. Which instantly borked all permissions, and I had to spend the rest of the evening / night resetting permissions over SSH for all affected files. Sure it is user error, but the fact that such a minor thing can cause such major fallout is why I hate dealing with linux.

I inherited this system, so the whole setup is a bit of a black box to me.


Had I set up the server maybe it would just work, at least the ones I set up with CentOS worked until they were someone else's responsibility. But I still hated working with those.

k,

Def inheriting a system sucks! I have had my share of those and yes, permissions can become a pain if they were not actually done properly when deployed! I have, many times, just nuked a system from orbit and redid it all so I could understand and make sure it was done properly. Things can break really quick if you start chmod or chown things under accounts and groups it wasn't originally configured to run under. (i always found NGINX was more forgiving than Apache)

I will note, comparison IIS, can be a royal pain as well when it comes to permissions, using non-default directories for content, permissions vs security vs NTFS security....

Being older myself, 45...deciding what info to keep in my brain these days happens often. Like any tool, if we use it every day, it becomes second nature, if you just dabble now and then in another OS, it wont stick. I used to be able to do a full NGINX reverse proxy deployment by memory, tweaked and secured, because I was doing it often (before I actually scripted it) but now, I would not remember any of it....

Also things I am sure i don't remember for Windows either, or VMWare products even though I was a Senior Virt specialist for...almost 10 years .

In the end, to me, it is what people are used to. We all get bad taste's in our mouth over things and often become bias towards it. When i moved to Linux as my main OS at home 3 years ago or so...I did go through the "ugh! how do I do this" phase for a couple weeks, then once i got in the groove, isn't even a second thought now....

Linux has its problems
Windows has its problems
Android has its problems
iOS has its problems
macOS has its problems...

Just comes down to what are you used to and familiar with.

Above it was noted Mint linux is crap....but for most, it is just fine, what makes an OS trash to one person, might not matter to someone else, and often those who do not like Mint for example, tend to be more hardcore linux users who go raw Arc cause they are a sucker for punishment, or some other spin off.

 

[1_rick]

Sure it is user error, but the fact that such a minor thing can cause such major fallout is why I hate dealing with linux.

Dude, you could do the exact same thing on Windows.

At my last job, a lot of our customers ran the application on a Citrix box, and it turned out frequently that people would run reports in the same folder. Well, the default sharing option in Windows gives you read and write, but not delete permissions, so I had a lot of customers call in because someone ran a report and got "cannot write file, errno 2" (or 5, or 13, I can't remember which.) It would always turn out that person A ran the report, and then person B did, and the program tried to delete the file, and person B couldn't delete person A's file. And, again, that's the default behavior on Windows.

 

[M76]

At the end of the day, you're trying to deflect the shortcomings of regedit, and regedit is intended to be the primary means of editing the Windows registry as opposed to gpedit which is primarily intended to be used for the editing of group policy - And regedit is completely counterintuitive compared to a plain text file in plain English. Effectively, your argument isn't based on whether the interface is a point and click GUI or a text file edited under some form of CLI - Your whole argument is based on the fact that gpedit is actually intuitive due to the fact it actually uses plain English compared to regedit.

The problem is:

1. Plain text files are every bit as intuitive due to the fact that they are, also, in plain English. Plain text files can also be downloaded and applied in the instance it's easier than uncommenting single lines within a text file; however like downloading and installing registry modifications, it's not something I'd generally recommend and is usually bad practice.
2. I've managed Windows based systems, GPMC is more commonly used by sysadmins making changes to GPO to be applied domain wide via AD. Sure, you'll encounter limited scenario's where local GPO is modified using gpedit - But realistically they're few and far between as making changes to GPO on one local machine is simply bad practice. Gpedit was never intended to be used as a means to edit the Windows registry, hence the reason regedit exists.

When you consider that both GPMC/gpedit and plain text files all use plain English - There is definite equivalence.

I'm shocked that you even try to argue this strawman.

1. IDK how do you presume to know better what my argument is than me. That's ridiculous. My argument is/was that gpedit is better than a text config file because it is a GUI tool that shows all available options and what they do. It has nothing to do with it being in English, what else would it be in? I said you might be able to claim that regedit is equal to plaintext files. I'm being actually very generous because regedit is at least structured and easily searchable. Where it is similar to plaintext is the lack of guidance on available options.
2. A plaintext file is the opposite of intuitive, especially when it only contains the options already set and you have no way of knowing what settings are even available and what value they can have. Or worse it might not even exist and you have to create it from scratch. It's easily possible that a setting appears multiple times in it, esp. when it is a shared system and multiple people worked on it, or when as you suggest someone just downloads a whole config file. And you think downloading a reg file is bad advice? C'mon. I'm not suggesting people download reg files left right and center, I just brought it up as a convenient option that's also not available in linux.
3. I maybe used GPMC once in my entire life, maybe, because I'm not even sure about that. Remember we are not talking about sysadmin stuff but about why linux isn't more popular on desktop.

Linux Mint is rubbish, I never stated otherwise - Stating so by no means implies that Linux as a whole is stuck in 2005.

This only highlights the issues with linux that even its advocates can't agree on which distro is good and which is rubbish.

Having said that, I haven't encountered an IRQ conflict since I was running a Soundblaster 16 on a 486 running DOS while playing DOOM.

Me neither, exactly my point. I'm not saying it was an IRQ conflict just the symptoms were similar.

You seem to be forming an opinion on Linux as a whole based on one over rated distro that you ran once as well as a server you 'inherited' - Hating on a majority as a result of two instances is remarkably short sighted, especially when the issues you experienced regarding the inherited server could just as easily have happened under Windows.

You're right I'm forming my opinion on my own experiences with linux, how dare I? What else would I form my opinion on? These were just examples not the whole diary of my experiences with linux. In the past 20 years I have dealt with numerous distros including but not limited to: Redhat, Suse, Debian, Ubuntu, CentOS. I deployed several servers using the latter in the mid 2010s.

And yet, the commands that I can recall from memory that I use routinely are literally the only commands I need to remember.

I'm sure you have a perfect memory and always remember exactly what you need. Well, I don't, therefore I prefer GUIs, where all I have to remember is how to open it.

This is really no different to a GUI where I can't always instantly recall the exact location of a particular GPO under the hierarchical structure of the particular GPMC group policy tree due to the fact it's not a GPO I modify routinely - Sometimes some research and clicking through trees is required.

You can click through the options in a menu and find what you need, you can't click through commands on a CLI or a bunch of nondescript text files.

It has to be stated that you can add bokmarks as well as quick commands to most terminal shells for quick and easy recall.

If I use something so often that I need shortcuts to it, I might as well remember it. But I'm glad linux has a workaround for what's a non-problem in windows.

And yet the reality is that it's far easier to get lost in a hierarchical GUI structure like that provided under gpedit or GPMC than it is to get lost in a plain text file under Linux. Furthermore, when it comes to software configuration, your GUI management consoles are basically useless.

I respect that's your opinion, and my opinion is that I never want to deal with text config files if possible.

It's not uncommon for certain software packages, even under Windows, to use plain text configuration files due to the fact they're a quick and efficient way to modify settings as opposed to clicking through branching trees of GUI based interfaces.

Again, text config files are only quick and efficient if you know exactly the name of the parameter you want to modify and you also know exactly what values it can take and what each value does. Which is rarely the case for first time configuration of an app.

Furthermore, in the instance the software GUI crashes making settings inaccessible, the plain text configuration file is a godsend.

A program can store its settings in plaintext while also having a GUI to configure said settings. The two are not mutually exclusive. You are not arguing against GUIs but binary config files, which I 100% agree with.

Under Windows, you use:

winget search [application name]

You seem to be missing the point: How do I know "application name" without google research? Sure if it is a known app that I use regularly then its easy, but usually when I need a new app for something I don't even know if such an app exists or not or what's it called.

And yet even Android is reintroducing the terminal in a move that's highly praised. Furthermore, modern Linux had evolved dramatically since 2005 - This comment is quite simply ignorant and seems to be based around the fact that the use of terminal never disappeared, mostly due to the fact that's it's still a very effective implementation with notable benefits over a GUI.

The problem is not that the terminal hasn't disappeared. Why would I want that? As a power user I use the command line sometimes even on windows. No, the issue is that using the terminal (and text conf files) is still often unavoidable. Hence why I think modern linux is fundamentally the same as it was 20 years ago, no matter how much more polished the UI is, and how streamlined the installer.

At the end of the day, if you want to talk 'hyperbole', your whole argument regarding CLI vs GUI is based around exaggerated statements as a result of what appears to be either a blind fear of terminal or an inability to learn something new.

You're re-stating things again without even considering what I said. Is it blind fear when you can easily cause a major issue that can only be fixed with hours of work? What new do I need to learn? I've been using linux 20 years and I don't like certain quirks of it, simple as.

I'm done here, there's nothing more to discuss.

Oh, yeah the turtle strategy: "must retreat lest my dogmatic views on linux get challenged"

If you prefer Windows, use Windows - I really don't care.

This is how it always goes:
Linux fans: Why isn't linux more popular?
Windows users: Because of this and this and that...
Linux fans: You're wrong and/or doing it wrong.
Windows users: And that's why it will always remain unpopular.

 

[Mazzspeed]

At the end of the day, you're the one trying to avoid the reality that there's nothing intuitive about the Windows registry by arguing that actually editing the registry is somehow easier under gpedit even though the user still has to add, modify, or delete registry keys and strings contained under hives - A process that is in no way intuitive whatsoever. All while arguing that editing human readable plain text configuration files is somehow less intuitive than modifying registry keys and strings contained under hives.

I'm sorry, I'm not the one arguing the strawman here.

Furthermore, I'm talking human readable configuration files - A binary configuration file is rarely in human readable format to the same extent exhibited under a plain text human readable configuration file. I can't think of a single binary configuration file under Linux - I've certainly never had to modify one.

This is how it always goes:
Linux fans: Why isn't linux more popular?
Windows users: Because of this and this and that...
Linux fans: You're wrong and/or doing it wrong.
Windows users: And that's why it will always remain unpopular.

As a Linux user, the popularity of Linux really isn't any primary concern of mine - I use Linux as it suits my use case perfectly and I simply don't need Windows, I certainly don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by not running Windows. Use what suits your use case and be happy. But understand: Windows is not the line in the sand every other OS has to aspire to, and Linux is certainly not Windows, it's not even a try hard clone of Windows - Linux is Linux, an OS unto itself.

It's one thing to have an opinion. But when you post incorrect opinion masquerading as fact, like your belief that Linux hasn't advanced in 20 years, or the idea that the Windows registry is more intuitive than plain text human readable configuration files - chances are a Linux user is going to pull you up on your exaggerated hyperbole which appears to be based on an undoubtable lack of experience with not only Linux in general, but any modern distro based on Linux.

I don't see any reason to drag this discussion any further off topic.

 

[cpufrost]

This seems to have a different tone than post support era of XP and 7...

With this TPM crap and Office 365. Frustration will go through the roof when folks aren't able to sign into the office apps.

Even with 11 pro running on 7th gen i7 micro form factor think stations. I can hear the managers screaming "But I've got an i7 with 32GB ram and 1TB SSD FFS!" So much e-waste. Nobody cares. But gas stoves are evil.

 

[DukenukemX]

This only highlights the issues with linux that even its advocates can't agree on which distro is good and which is rubbish.

All distros are good and all distros are rubbish. Is MacOS good or bad? I rest my case.

Me neither, exactly my point. I'm not saying it was an IRQ conflict just the symptoms were similar.

Nobody has dealt with IRQ conflicts since the 90's, and this includes Linux. That's telling actually.

You're right I'm forming my opinion on my own experiences with linux, how dare I? What else would I form my opinion on? These were just examples not the whole diary of my experiences with linux. In the past 20 years I have dealt with numerous distros including but not limited to: Redhat, Suse, Debian, Ubuntu, CentOS. I deployed several servers using the latter in the mid 2010s.

Moe like the year 2010. None of the stuff you claim is true about Linux for over 10 years.

The problem is not that the terminal hasn't disappeared. Why would I want that? As a power user I use the command line sometimes even on windows. No, the issue is that using the terminal (and text conf files) is still often unavoidable. Hence why I think modern linux is fundamentally the same as it was 20 years ago, no matter how much more polished the UI is, and how streamlined the installer.

You're still wrong. Most modern distros will avoid terminal entirely. If I use terminal then that's because I'm doing something that even on Windows would require a command prompt. Linux Mint has a UI for everything, including changing kernels. Same goes for CachyOS.

I've been using linux 20 years and I don't like certain quirks of it, simple as.

You used Linux 20 years ago, and not using it now or even recently.

This is how it always goes:
Linux fans: Why isn't linux more popular?
Windows users: Because of this and this and that...
Linux fans: You're wrong and/or doing it wrong.
Windows users: And that's why it will always remain unpopular.

This can be said for any OS less popular than Windows, including MacOS. Why was Windows Mobile less popular than Android? Android shares a lot of similarities with desktop Linux and yet everything is fine. Let me explain why Linux hasn't taken over Windows in popularity.

1. Couldn't play games on it. For most people this was the biggest reason why people avoiding Linux.
2. Shit was broken. A lot of people remember having issues installing WiFi drivers.
3. Terminal everything and no UI's. This was a problem as well.
4. Linux was slower than Windows. Believe it or not, there was a time when Windows was faster.
5. Where's my favorite software? Still a problem as many popular programs just haven't been ported to Linux.

As you can see most of these issues have been resolved. Not even recently resolved either.

So much e-waste. Nobody cares. But gas stoves are evil.

Drink from paper straws. No free plastic bags at check out. The real solution to reducing carbon foot print is to not easily throw away old stuff. The real cause of pollution is manufacturing. If I have to buy a new PC to get an updated version of Windows then what's happening to my perfectly working old PC? It'll end up in the landfill. To make it seem like the consumer is the bad guy, they put this as the consumers fault. Better do your recycling because it'll just get burned at the landfill anyway. Plastic is not recyclable, period. This is planned obsolescence.

 

[Lakados]

I ran a Linux based HTPC for years, I used Kodi as my front end and passed audio as multichannel PCM - Never encountered a single issue. Not too sure just what you did wrong.

Drivers… you can get really unlucky with many Linux distro’s if you’ve got the wrong combination of Realtek hardware.

Realtek and its prevalence in the PC space is the largest thing holding back wide scale Linux adoption.

 

[LukeTbk]

But I need to search for the command line tool on google too, how could I use a CLI tool to download software that I don't know the name of or that it even exists? And after I found it isn't it easier to just click download, than copy pasting the name of it into the command line?

For the very use (but that was true when you had to learn how ot use a browser, where to search for things on the internet), after the first use it is way faster and easier to use winget to install program. when you do winget search keyword, it is will return to you a list of option for the type of program you are searching (pdf for pdf reader and so on). It remove from some app wizard the famous do you want to install a browser plugin at the same time pre-configured, etc.... (when you do remote tech support it is really nice to be able to make people install stuff in that way, instead of going throught the web trying to avoid the bigger download button that for the malware instead of the actual one, the install wizard after and so on)

Now with LLM, they are really good at writing command line instruction and you can speak in regular English to terminals.

The real solution to reducing carbon foot print is to not easily throw away old stuff. The real cause of pollution is manufacturing.

That a small part of things:

, keeping habitation at liveable temp (the largest of all source is simply residential energy for cooking in them heating and cooling things in them and heating-cooling the house itself), making and cooking food is a large of it.

 

[Armenius]

I love when every Windows thread devolves into arguments about Linux, an OS supposedly so good that users can't stand looking at a Windows thread for 30 seconds without bringing it up and derailing discussion.

 

[DukenukemX]

Drivers… you can get really unlucky with many Linux distro’s if you’ve got the wrong combination of Realtek hardware.

Realtek and its prevalence in the PC space is the largest thing holding back wide scale Linux adoption.

I've had more problems with Broadcom than Realtek. Don't remember ever having problems with Realtek, but again I'm just an end user.

That a small part of things:
View attachment 759166, keeping habitation at liveable temp (the largest of all source is simply residential energy for cooking in them heating and cooling things in them and heating-cooling the house itself), making and cooking food is a large of it.

Depends on how you look at this. Manufacturing and Construction being 12% isn't that large, but what about industrial Processes at 6%? What about waste at 3%? Fugitive emissions at 5% is just unintended releases of gases and vapors from industrial processes. Even Bunker Fuels 2% is a type of fuel used to power large cargo ships. Land Use Change and Forestry 6% is just deforestation used for more manufacturing. When you add this all together it's 34%, which is hardly "a small part." The actual manufacturing part maybe 12%, but you gotta mine raw material and process it, move the stuff, deal with waste, and etc. There's a lot that goes on when it comes to making products. Even Apple with their claims to be carbon neutral was false and the courts told Apple to stop lying. It's easy to look green when you're forgetting parts of the manufacturing process, which there is a lot.

 

[DukenukemX]

I love when every Windows thread devolves into arguments about Linux, an OS supposedly so good that users can't stand looking at a Windows thread for 30 seconds without bringing it up and derailing discussion.

If it makes you feel better we'll bring up MacOS and TempleOS. Bring some diversity here.

 

[LukeTbk]

Land Use Change and Forestry 6% is just deforestation used for more manufacturing

deforestation is almost purely for food (80-90%) not manufacturing....(with a little bit for cooking/heating, wood still popular heat source for those), a tiny little bit for /roads/minings/etc... but that really marginals.

The actual manufacturing part maybe 12%, but you gotta mine raw material and process it,

Cut it as you want, just regular comfortable eating/living is a giant part of it. Industrial process like making cement is a big part