Yup, freaking TurboTax. I had to file a paper application, too, because they couldn't get their electronic version fixed. There must be a better alternative.
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Consumer Reports asks Microsoft to keep supporting Windows 10.
- Thread starter Susquehannock
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DukenukemX
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Doesn't TurboTax work on their website now?
Yeah, but the one you run on your computer is easier to use, at least based on what I hear and my experience with the web one a million years ago. The web one doesn't let you jump around as easily, and I don't think it lets you switch to seeing the forms, and it requires a higher tier to do cap gains, the one that runs on your computer only suggests it, then it works fine anyway.
I'm tempted to try something else for tax year 2025, but now both my parents in law are having me run their taxes, so I dunno. Probably not good to mess those up, but they really could just go to taxaide.
M76
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DELL Pro 14 Plus, but you're out of luck as it shows windows as the only available OS option on the US Dell page, you have to be a lowly peasant in the bowels of eastern europe then you can indeed get it with linux. If you don't want to take my word for it here are the links to the listings: with windows \ with linux
Yes, but the QoL changes are mostly related to installing stuff like drivers, programs, and the OS itself. I never had a problem with the UI, not even 20 years ago. I wouldn't say it is better or worse just different compared to windows.
My problems with linux start when you have to leave the comfort of the UI and start editing config files, or fiddle with permissions. It's not that I can't do it, I just fucking despise that aspect of it, I've been doing it for 20 years and I'll never get used to it let alone comfortable with it.
Sure, config editing is needed for far less now than it was when I started, but it's still non-zero. Maybe a regular user could get away without it, but I'm not that type of user. On the other hand I've never had to edit text based config files on windows.
It can only be bait if you love linux on faith and not for any practical reasons. Of course there are changes but nothing that would make me say oh forget windows I want linux now.
Yes one, that I've restated numerous times already but here we go one last time: The point was that linux being pre-installed on a significant number of new PCs did not make it more popular.
Maybe you can do it so they don't notice immediately, but ever? Either way what is that supposed to prove then? I already said nobody denies you can browse the internet on linux. You could already do that 20 years ago no issue.
That's the point. In order for people to want linux it does not just need to match or imitate what windows can do, it needs to be so amazing that people want to give it a try, and not only the enthusiasts who are open to experiments.
Yes the type of evidence you submit proves you are missing the point. I know all about the wet belt nightmares. If all that mattered is how many objective technical faults there are then everyone would be buying one type of car.
True, I'm not getting it, because not even the worst windows shills on this forum act like this. You constructed a strawman that you keep attacking, I won't stand in your way, destroy that mfer.
Well, the thing is that windows is still more convenient while not listening to users. So it really is the pragmatic choice.
And when the time comes that it is easier to deal with linux quirks than windows I'll probably make the switch, but not before.
Anti consumer bs aside windows 10 and 11 works much better than any previous version. XP still had to be reinstalled regularly even 7 didn't last forever. The in place update from 10 to 11 is almost completely painless and only takes 15 minutes of downtime.
It is worse, windows 7 and XP had very little market share remaining when security updates ended. 10 still sits comfortably above 40%. So I still believe microsoft will reverse course at the last minute and keep releasing security fixes. Of course they'll spin it in such a way that makes it seem like they are not reversing course.
M76
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I'm sorry but I don't believe that linux today is significantly different than it was 5 years ago. As I've said I've been hearing this exact same thing for decades, and it's always some new distro everyone is swearing on and it always turns out to be just a fancy coat of paint. First it was Suse, then redhat was the windows killer, then ubuntu, then mint, and god knows how many others were claimed to be IT.
It was exactly 3 years ago when I had the bold idea to set up a new HTPC using linux. After days of suffering I just gave up and installed win11 on it and it just worked.
So it is exactly about convincing people that linux of 2025 is not the same as linux of 2020. If I hadn't heard the same thing every year since 2010 and I didn't have my own bad experiences with linux I might even be inclined to believe it.
IDK what do you mean, who blames windows accounts and user tracking on linux?
For me it is Studio Tax. I have used it for a long time and I only have to load up my last year's file to start my next one. It sucks in all my past info and auto-populates everything it can. Then I just have to input the new data, check everything else, and I'm done. I could do it all by hand ... I have in the distant past ... but I'm not going back to that again. Blech.
DukenukemX
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No... no it really isn't. I don't think you understand how Linux can often be easier to use over Windows. I don't install drivers as an AMD user and software is quick and easy. There's no hunting for programs online or wondering if Microsoft's App Store is still broken. I use Octopi and now Discover to install programs. Installing Linux is usually done booting into Linux and using a nice and quick UI.
QoL changes usually involve making it even easier to get software and making the UI even better. Linux was already better than Windows at getting software, but it just keeps getting better. With Windows you open up Edge and install Chrome or Firefox and then find an exe that doesn't have a virus. With Linux you get Firefox as the default browser and can easily install it through a terminal, or through programs like Octopi and Discover. CachyOS even gives you the option to install Brave as a choice when installing it.
That's not a requirement in Linux for years. The only reason you'd need to do this is because you're either make unorthodox changes to Linux or you're setting up an ftp. This is one of the reasons why I use CachyOS because it does this stuff for me. The CachyOS Hello UI which starts up when you first install CachyOS will give you a lot of easy to install stuff that's done with clicks. CachyOS even has a kernel manager, which isn't new because so did Linux Mint. The difference is that CachyOS has optimize kernels where Linux Mint doesn't.
Your understanding of modern Linux is as antiquated as your belief that Ford makes good vehicles. By the way, this doesn't make me a Chevy or Toyota guy. Even Toyota is getting worse as I had to rebuild my nieces CT200h engine because that car burned one quart of oil per week. At some point is started to eat two quarts per week. I think I did a good job porting and polishing what is essentially a Prius head. Just like lapping a CPU... but bigger.
I did back in 2021. It was mostly the advancement of Proton and AMD's drivers that allowed me to make the switch. The move to CachyOS is making my Linux experience even easier. Tools like Heroic Game Launcher and ProtonUP makes my Linux gaming experience even better. I don't even need to go to my printers manufacturers website to install the drivers because the AUR has it. A few clicks and I'm printing and scanning.
What do you call the Steam Deck then?
At some point they'll notice something and I would just tell them it's really Linux. Certain elements would be out of place and they'll pick up on it. They don't care because they noticed performance improvements and the lack of virus infections, which is the main reason why I end up installing Linux.
That Linux is a UI change away from being daily driven. Why you think Linux Mint was so popular for such a long time? For a while they were the only ones who had a UI that looked and acted like Windows, down to the key shortcuts.
Which is why the majority of QoL changes involve running Windows software better on Linux. That's Linux's last problem that needs to be dealt with. Not drivers, installing software, or installing the OS itself as these haven't been problems for over several years. It's more of a Windows problem if anything. It's getting software like Adobe to work without crashing or glitching because it wasn't made for Linux. If not that then online games that developers refuse to allow Linux to run. Remember that Sober software I mentioned? That's not running the Windows version of Roblox but the Android version, and it even works with gamepads too. It's what I installed on my nieces 2012 Macbook Air, and it surprisingly works pretty good too.
There's a lot more to Ford's mistakes besides wet belts, which they still use. The infamous Ford 3 valve V8's and their 3 cylinder engines with head gasket issues. This was fords idea to solve the warping of the heads on their 3 cylinder engines. They have since stopping doing this.
You refusing to understand doesn't change the situation. Windows is getting worse because Microsoft refuses to listen to anyone else but shareholders.
This becomes a game where Microsoft tries to see how much worse it can make Windows before they have to walk back some changes. Wait and see what happens when people start installing modified versions of Windows 11 onto hardware that Microsoft had no intention for Windows 11. Microsoft will keep this forum very busy soon.
Just a PR move to make it seem like they're not the bad guys. Like I said, I'm going to be installing modified Windows 11 so people can just continue to get updates. If Microsoft can continue to update Windows 10 for another 3 years then they'll save me the trouble. The last thing Microsoft wants is Windows 11 installed in machines that don't meet their requirements. If Microsoft ends Windows 10 for another 6 months then screw it modified Windows 11 it is.
Teenyman45
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And if Microsoft had ever released a fully functioned, properly secured 10, there wouldn't be much of an issue to request ongoing support. Further, if 11 wasn't so astoundingly, stupefying terrible as to make the still terrible 10 seem worth keeping in comparison then nearly everybody who could would have already migrated over to 11 irrespective of whether 10 was actually a good operating system.
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Microsoft could just charge for extended support, and double the price each additional year for 5 years. They should have started this as of Jan 1st 2024... in my opinion.
Year #1 2024 $12.50
Year #2 2025 $25
Year #3 2026 $50
Year #4 2027 $100
Year #5 2028 $200
They could also provide a discounted support bundle if you purchased it in Year #1
3 years 2024-2026 $75
5 Years 2024-2028 $300
I bet if they would have done this, this would have created a revenue stream and convinced users to self-migrate. Additionally it removes the " will they extend support for free" line of thinking from the end users.
Year #1 2024 $12.50
Year #2 2025 $25
Year #3 2026 $50
Year #4 2027 $100
Year #5 2028 $200
They could also provide a discounted support bundle if you purchased it in Year #1
3 years 2024-2026 $75
5 Years 2024-2028 $300
I bet if they would have done this, this would have created a revenue stream and convinced users to self-migrate. Additionally it removes the " will they extend support for free" line of thinking from the end users.
DukenukemX
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There's no such thing as an OS that's secure without needing updates. This is why I think Android is stupid as hell because Google thinks that getting updates should be provided by hardware manufacturers. You know, the guys that want you to buy a new device as often as you have money in your wallet. Whether or not you like Windows 11 doesn't matter right now because you need an OS that gets security updates. You can kick and scream all you want but you're going to end up using Windows 11.
Or just let people upgrade to Windows 11. There's no good reason not to. TPM2.0 is required to enhance security but what good is it when people are stuck using Windows 10 which no longer gets security updates? Offering paid Extended Security Updates (ESU) program just seems like they're milking it. Modify the Windows 11 ISO and get it done. Rufus even does this now. Let Microsoft deal with this support nightmare they created.
Teenyman45
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Since I need a secure OS and since Microsoft never finished securing 10, there should be an obligation continue supporting 10 until it is fully secure how ever many years/decades/geologic epochs that might happen take.
People expect extended support because that is what happened with 7 since 8 was so terrible and 10 is almost as terrible as 8.
People expect extended support because that is what happened with 7 since 8 was so terrible and 10 is almost as terrible as 8.
DukenukemX
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Windows 10 isn't even good if you consider that the OS collects telemetry data on you. Windows 11 is just doing this more so while giving you ads. The issue I have is that there's no reason to require TPM2.0 and Secure boot while also limiting CPU generations with Windows 11. Windows 11 clearly works on older machines without issues. It's not like Microsoft had plans to support older PC's with Windows 11 anyway. Microsoft could just offer longer support for Windows 10 for free because the reality is that there's not much difference between 10 and 11. Some Windows bugs go as far back as Windows 95, which is crazy when think how much old code still exists in modern Windows.
Like I've said multiple times in that if you plan to continue to use Windows then you need to upgrade to Windows 11. If you're going to modify Windows 11 to install it then you can go the nth degree and make it look like Windows 7 or even 10. You can even remove it's crap and make it a useful OS.
View: https://youtu.be/e2jkSeqOmEw?si=NikwC2gxzzwvYBPT
View: https://youtu.be/RmnNo9RGRT8?si=A5BeydOih3ufBsAu
Dion
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I miss WinXP.
Armenius
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You know the same telemetry people bitch about in 10 & 11 was added to 7 before 10 even released.
DukenukemX
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Yea, after Windows 10 was released. Microsoft felt that Windows 7 users were missing out and actually patched that into Windows 7. Anything before that was opt in where after Windows 10 it was opt out. It's as if Microsoft is a shitty company or something?
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And since MS still has to support Windows 10 LTSC versions, it is not like they are stopping security updates all together either, so it is no extra work either, likely why they are offering the paid option...
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Actually it's not that simple. The last version of Windows 10 LTSC was 21H2. The last non-LTSC version was 22H2, which is what most people who are still on 10 are running now. So you'd have to run a version of Windows 10 that is even older than the current aging 22H2 version in order to be running the LTSC version. And you can't downgrade a 22H2 install to a 21H2 LTSC install, you'd have to do a fresh install to make that happen.
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I migrated to Windows 11 when it came out on preview and I am now on Windows 11 25H2 and have had zero problems but hen again i do not turn of services left and right and kill of features because I do not suffer from deep paranoia or tech illiteracy so why would I bork my OS of choice and then complain that things do not work because of my own doing?
If you do not like windows 11 you can always go linux or stay on windows 10 and enjoy the CVE's that pile up.
There is also Windows 3.11 if you really like to hurt yourself but my guess is that people will prefer to complain and bork their OS and not just migrate to a platform of their own choice.
Let windows 10 die and stop feeding the bot-nets.
If you do not like windows 11 you can always go linux or stay on windows 10 and enjoy the CVE's that pile up.
There is also Windows 3.11 if you really like to hurt yourself but my guess is that people will prefer to complain and bork their OS and not just migrate to a platform of their own choice.
Let windows 10 die and stop feeding the bot-nets.
sharknice
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Windows 10 tried to force me to upgrade but my hardware isn't compatibile with windows 11. I've been considering Linux for a long time but software I use daily does not run on Linux.
I'm not going to just stop using my PC, and I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars upgrading hardware or buying a completely new PC so I can use Windows 11.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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So you are creating your own problems I do hope you enjoy them.
lol what a wiener…
This is frankly hyperbolic. It's unrealistic to suggest that Microsoft could have made Windows 10 so secure that there wouldn't have been a significant call to extend support. And Windows 11 is not "astoundingly, stupifyingly terrible;" I don't think it was the uniform step forward Microsoft portrayed and it doesn't have many must-have features, but that's not why adoption was slow until this year. The boring reality is that steeper system requirements and the usual corporate reluctance were at work, with the pandemic spike in PC sales reducing some demand from everyday people.
DukenukemX
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You can always patch the Windows 11 ISO so it can install on any PC.
Microsoft reduces requirements for extra year of windows 10 support for Europeans. They only need to enable a microsoft account.
Source (in Dutch): https://tweakers.net/nieuws/239564/...-extra-jaar-windows-10-support-in-europa.html
Consumer organizations are claiming a victory, but microsoft desktop market share had a surprisingly hefty drop, down to 70% (mostly lost to apple).
Source (in Dutch): https://tweakers.net/nieuws/239564/...-extra-jaar-windows-10-support-in-europa.html
Consumer organizations are claiming a victory, but microsoft desktop market share had a surprisingly hefty drop, down to 70% (mostly lost to apple).
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DukenukemX
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So they gotta sell their data soul.
Apple didn't gain Windows market share. Apple dropped recently as well. Most OS's have dropped recently, probably due to Unknown.
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...with zero self inflicted problems as I do not let my ego ruin my OS to then complain in public that the world doesn't rotate around my viewpoints or my entitlement about what companies should support on my hardware because I want them to do as I want and not do what they thing is best.
It seems more energy is wasted on complaining in public than doing an actual solution indeed.
Susquehannock
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Great discussion. Have to admit that was a factor for me posting this article. To learn from the knowledgeable members here.
Unsurprisingly, Win7 market share has risen significantly recently as many users refuse to upgrade.
= = = = = = =
>> https://www.windowscentral.com/micr...ndows-11-in-wake-of-windows-10-end-of-support
>> https://www.techradar.com/pro/windo...r-microsofts-campaign-to-get-people-upgrading
>> https://tech4gamers.com/windows-7-market-share-increase/
Unsurprisingly, Win7 market share has risen significantly recently as many users refuse to upgrade.
= = = = = = =
>> https://www.windowscentral.com/micr...ndows-11-in-wake-of-windows-10-end-of-support
>> https://www.techradar.com/pro/windo...r-microsofts-campaign-to-get-people-upgrading
>> https://tech4gamers.com/windows-7-market-share-increase/
DukenukemX
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That doesn't make sense. Why would people use Windows 7 if Windows 10 is EOL? Statcounter did update and Windows went up while Mac went down. MacOS is now 12.21%. Linux had a massive drop to 3.16%. Nobody expects the Windows 7 inquisition.
Teenyman45
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3.11 with 32 bit extensions was great. That and XP were the last two MS OS's I actually liked.
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The last time I had issues were:
Windows Vista: BSOD but got that fixed with the hardware vendor and a new driver
Windows 8: GUI, but that got fixed in 8.1
But I am amazed at how some people seem to suffer som particulear bad cognetive OCD, change an icon slighty and their brains go haywire and melt down anf it takes them decades to come over.
But then again it suits fine with my observations of the myriads of ways people self-sabotage their OS and then doesn't understand why it fails or run badly.
If Windows 10 is EOL and Windows 7 is EOL, might as well use the one you like? But yeah, these stats are always iffy. But people with better stats don't like to share, so...
My pet theory is that those systems are being used for the first time in years after their owners are reminded of their existence by the reporting about the end of 10.
M76
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I have systems at work that still has windows 7 on them, but hasn't been turned on in probably 5+ years. They are not forgotten, just have software on them that only runs on those systems. We might never need that software, or it might be a key to a big project like last time it was used.
Comixbooks
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I'm still Running Windows 98?
Susquehannock
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To this day some of my friends are still disgruntled having to switch from Win7 over to Win10. Personal systems at home, and ones they use at work. Old habits die hard. Then there is the - "If it works why change it?" - attitude. The latter I agree with. My Win10 systems are perfectly fine for my purposes. For that matter, so are my Win98se and WinXP retro gaming rigs. Neither of which see the internet.
Old operating systems are still out there running important things. Google search just gave this response in regards to WinXP.
"While precise, up-to-date figures vary, estimates from late 2023 and early 2024 suggest that roughly
0.3% to 0.4% of all Windows desktop PCs still use Windows XP, representing millions of devices worldwide that are connected to the internet. This usage is often seen in critical infrastructure like ATMs and medical devices, which may not be easily or affordably upgradable, or in systems that are isolated from the internet and therefore not receiving security updates."
The above is not surprising since I have seen two instances of WinXP in the last several months myself.
The Food Lion grocery store in town uses WinXP. Saw the flash screen when they had to reboot the checkouts after they froze up with customers waiting impatiently. Dude behind me in line said he was an IT guy. We both shook our heads in dismay.
WinXP screensaver pops up on bartender touch screen at the local pub still. Highly unlikely that is connected to the internet.
Old operating systems are still out there running important things. Google search just gave this response in regards to WinXP.
"While precise, up-to-date figures vary, estimates from late 2023 and early 2024 suggest that roughly
0.3% to 0.4% of all Windows desktop PCs still use Windows XP, representing millions of devices worldwide that are connected to the internet. This usage is often seen in critical infrastructure like ATMs and medical devices, which may not be easily or affordably upgradable, or in systems that are isolated from the internet and therefore not receiving security updates."
The above is not surprising since I have seen two instances of WinXP in the last several months myself.
The Food Lion grocery store in town uses WinXP. Saw the flash screen when they had to reboot the checkouts after they froze up with customers waiting impatiently. Dude behind me in line said he was an IT guy. We both shook our heads in dismay.
WinXP screensaver pops up on bartender touch screen at the local pub still. Highly unlikely that is connected to the internet.
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DukenukemX
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I'm like that actually. Sometimes I'll carry over icon positions because it makes me feel comfortable, even though it's actually a mess.
Some people in this thread did actually say they were interested in Windows 7, so I guess they weren't alone. It was the most functional Windows ever made. You knew where everything was because it's been like that since Windows 95. The UI was modern enough to look good, but still usable. Also the start menu still acted like the start menu.
DukenukemX
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Thinking about it the new statscounter makes sense if you remember school just started. Windows 7 went up because a lot of schools probably have computers that still run Windows 7. Linux went down because schools aren't going to deal with your inability to install software meant for Windows. ChromeOS went up by .18%, which is probably due to school. MacOS went down for the same reason why Apple is making A-series based Macbooks, because Windows laptops are affordable.
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This was the best part about the death of my parents and grandparents!