Conroe: We're !!

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$BangforThe$ said:
I am pretty sure Chris meant to say 300mm wafer and 65nm system up and running.

I thought it was interesting but Chris never said he seen 65NM cpu's being fabbed. If amd was fabbing they would have showed it off. So until we see produvtion Es chips Its still a long way off . It is interesting none the less.
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You can argue semantics but it was 65nm technology 300mm wafers either way. There was a full wafer on display and a 65nm system up and running. It was on a table. At AMD HQ in Sunnyvale. Take it or a leave it, I really don't care. Point is, I'm doing a lot more than just speculating anonymously on the internet. I made no claims about production or ETA, just said exactly what I saw.
 
Chris_Morley said:
You can argue semantics but it was 65nm technology 300mm wafers either way. There was a full wafer on display and a 65nm system up and running. It was on a table. At AMD HQ in Sunnyvale. Take it or a leave it, I really don't care. Point is, I'm doing a lot more than just speculating anonymously on the internet. I made no claims about production or ETA, just said exactly what I saw.
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i don't suppose you ran up to it and ran some benches? :D
 
Chris_Morley said:
Nope, but I got pics.


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Alphas sort of like Hammer at 800MHz.

If they ran worth a damned, everyone their mom Webmaster would have one. No different than what Intel did with the first good copies of Conroe or what AMD did with A64=P
 
Donnie27 said:
I don't know, Joel at Sudhian, Van Smith and surely Chris Tom are bigger AMD Fanb01z.
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Who? I never noticed Sudhian to be an AMD !!!!!! site, and to me Tom's Hardware is allright, though some of their results or simply strange and don't make sense nowadays rather then showing bias toward AMD or Intel. :D
 
Chris_Morley said:
I personally saw 65nm wafers and a 65nm system up and running at the AMD analyst day two weeks ago...
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Too bad they are a little late to the party.

Intel showed 65nm SRAM in november 2003 and Conroe taped out in may 2005 .I expect Cedar Mills and Preslers to have taped-out in late 2004.

So how late is AMD ? Very very late with 65nm.Intel crossed its 90->65nm shipments the previous quarter and AMD hasn't even started 65nm! :eek:
 
savantu said:
So how late is AMD ? Very very late with 65nm.Intel crossed its 90->65nm shipments the previous quarter and AMD hasn't even started 65nm! :eek:
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Probobly because the 90mm Athlon 64 has been whooping the 65nm intel offerings up until now...
 
travbrad said:
I wonder if there are message boards to argue whether walmart or target is better :p
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*Cough* K-mart *Cough*

Nope, I seriously hope Conroe deals a big spankin', competition ftw!

Plus, I've been wanting to build me a second system, and these price cuts are :drool:. The 3500 is going to hit $100.
 
ValeX said:
I can't believe some of you people, being AMD or Intel "!!!!!!s". I'm pretttyyy sure the company isn't a "fan" of its customers, in fact im pretty sure they don't give a shit what happens to you unless you buy their chips, but you're still "rooting" for your company to win in their market? *shrugs*

It seems odd to me, to root for a company...but whatever floats your boat I guess...

ValeX
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Makes more sense to me then seeing two guys start yelling/fighting over who's the better Football team.

When a company is putting out good products, or a bargain, and it's benefiting you, you're gonna like 'em. You want them to keep putting out these same deals for you, so you start cheering for them. When they keep whooping up on the "other" guy, you come to think of the other as the bad guy that's ripping you off with obsolete products. Most people just don't realize when something comes out and whoops ya real bad, you get back up and server a bigger whoopin'. Hope my half-assed analogies are understandable :-P
 
savantu said:
Too bad they are a little late to the party.

Intel showed 65nm SRAM in november 2003 and Conroe taped out in may 2005 .I expect Cedar Mills and Preslers to have taped-out in late 2004.

So how late is AMD ? Very very late with 65nm.Intel crossed its 90->65nm shipments the previous quarter and AMD hasn't even started 65nm! :eek:
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AMD showed 45nm SRAM about 3 months after Intel, didn't they?
 
Donnie27 said:
Alphas sort of like Hammer at 800MHz.

If they ran worth a damned, everyone their mom Webmaster would have one. No different than what Intel did with the first good copies of Conroe or what AMD did with A64=P
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Nice Donnie27. How did you like the AMD headquarters? What, you were not there? Then where did you get that information from? Oh wait, is it just pure speculation, but you didn't bother marking it as such?
 
Most folks, yes even gamers, are going to want the best bang / buck.

It's never been a concern of mine, regarding who had the top performance crown, since I'm not one to spend a lot of money on a CPU, with $250 being my upper limit.

Assuming that all things are equal, my main question would be, which company gives me the best CPU that $250 can buy? That's the company that will get my business.

It's a great time to be a consumer, since we are the ones who win in the end. We need both Intel and AMD to constantly push each other, lest one fall into a stagnant situation.
 
Unknown-One said:
Probobly because the 90mm Athlon 64 has been whooping the 65nm intel offerings up until now...
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Really I haven't seen this whipping your talking about at all. Got a link? What do you mean by whipping ? What are the % of these so called whippings. The no1 selling processor right now is the little old 805 intel processor.
 
Look guys . I preferr Intel to AMD but that doesn't mean I don't understand that Intel needs AMD to be a player. We all need both companies.

The fact remains that AMD does indeed seem to be having problems at the 65nm level.

Now take it for what its worth . Intel said that in its testing they seen problems with SOI at 65nm and smaller. As the insulating layer becomes to thin. AMD may have run into this problem . I don't know . AMD also has been working on the Stressed silly. That IBM invented . and Intel started using on the 90nm tech. We all know Intel had problems at 90nm. So is it possiable AMD has run into problems @ 65nm. There appears to be a problem . Put away the Fan-boyism for a little while and lets have a meaningful discussion on the subject with links.
 
$BangforThe$ said:
Really I haven't seen this whipping your talking about at all. Got a link? What do you mean by whipping ? What are the % of these so called whippings. The no1 selling processor right now is the little old 805 intel processor.
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Calm down; it was just a general comment on how well AMD's current architecture has been doing compared to Intel’s, which needed a die shrink to keep on par or surpass AMD's older tech. Although with the invent of Conroe and its new architecture, it looks like Intel finally got their performance to where it should have been on 90nm and taken the performance crown by introducing it on the 65nm process.
 
I really wasn't to excited about it. I just don't see a whipping that was posted. AMD is a bit faster than P4D but it's only a little. As for gaming at High res . We all seem to finely be in agreement the cpu isn't that important anymore.. I have to confess it is fun O/C a cpu to 4ghz and beyond. Its rather nice having the p4D out at the same time as conroe because any defense taken by AMD fans for conroe can be used by Intel fans in defense of P4D's . IT is truely like being between a rock and a hard place.
 
$BangforThe$ said:
Its rather nice having the p4D out at the same time as conroe because any defense taken by AMD fans for conroe can be used by Intel fans in defense of P4D's.
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I think this posts shows just what you are and what you do.
 
coldpower27 said:
Who? I never noticed Sudhian to be an AMD !!!!!! site, and to me Tom's Hardware is allright, though some of their results or simply strange and don't make sense nowadays rather then showing bias toward AMD or Intel. :D
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I should have saved his post to me, yes Joel flamed me LOL! Chris Tom runs the AMDZone and worship them like they are his parents or something. Doctor Tom is not that much of an AMD Fan but clearly Bert and Frank, writer/reviewers are though. Van Smith use to work for Tom's hardware and Doctor Tom had to run him off for his wild Anti-Intel views. His views are similar to Serge's. His famous op ed "A Tital Falls" sits in the AMD Fanb01 Hall of Fame. It and other stuff got him fired even as most folks saw's Tom's as AMD biased, he sat on the AMD Saxonia Board LOL!
 
drizzt81 said:
Nice Donnie27. How did you like the AMD headquarters? What, you were not there? Then where did you get that information from? Oh wait, is it just pure speculation, but you didn't bother marking it as such?
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Oh wait, you've been there and can prove you're NOT speculating as well, right? Dewd, look at that BOARD? Oh wait, AMD's 65nm goes on sales next week, that's not Alpha Hardware, they'll switch to So-Dimms instead of 240 pin, they'll use 200 pin, WOW. I'm so happy I got some great info from you, thank you very much ;)
 
Unknown-One said:
Probobly because the 90mm Athlon 64 has been whooping the 65nm intel offerings up until now...
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NO, depends on who's review you read. Presler didn't do as poorly as Prescott and Yonah did just as good as much more expensive X2. Sure X2 laid the smack down on Prescott.
 
Donnie27 said:
Sure X2 laid the smack down on Prescott.
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I'm sorry... but I just don't buy that. I was running a 660 Prescott clocked to 3.73/1066 in my other system and ran EVERY game I could play with all the eye candy turned up. It never ran that hot, despite them being "space heaters," never shut off, lagged, etc. Maybe in benchmarks AMDs stuff was faster.... but NOT in real world where it matters. Now.... hold onto your pants here cause I'm going to say something that may shock some of you..... :D

It's going to be the same thing, but in reverse with Conroe. Guess what.... if you have a high end AMD whatever processor you are not going to NOTICE a dfference in everyday useage. Sure... it'll benchmark higher, but Conroe will not all of a sudden make your eyes be able to see more fps than before. Now... i would go with Conroe over AMDs stuff for other reasons.... heat (AMDs are starting to run pretty hot), price, stability of the platform, etc.

Here's the thing... marketing sells computers, not the 2 fps that a person sees when they use a PC. Now... if marketing can show a benchmark and convince the consumer that they need those extra 2 fps... then there you have it.
 
Donnie27 said:
Unknown-One said:
Probobly because the 90mm Athlon 64 has been whooping the 65nm intel offerings up until now...
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NO, depends on who's review you read. Presler didn't do as poorly as Prescott and Yonah did just as good as much more expensive X2. Sure X2 laid the smack down on Prescott.
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I suppose I should have said that differently…I should have said that "AMD's architecture at 90mm has been in the running with Intel’s architecture at 65nm up until now".

After all, most offering from both sides have been about even up until recently...now its a waiting game to see how well AMD will do on 65nm.
 
$BangforThe$ said:
Look guys . I preferr Intel to AMD but that doesn't mean I don't understand that Intel needs AMD to be a player. We all need both companies.

.
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which was why Intel had been helping AMD out for a time to keep from dying (P4C). Yet.... AMD still sues Intel for being a monopoly even after keeping them alive....
 
:rolleyes: you did not just say that :rolleyes:

OOOO YEAAH intel had something better than P4's and didnt release it just so they could lose part of their reputation, and give another company a chance to overrun them!!!!!!!

O Wait? your a f4/\/b0y? that explains it...
 
Unknown-One said:
I suppose I should have said that differently…I should have said that "AMD's architecture at 90mm has been in the running with Intel’s architecture at 65nm up until now".

After all, most offering from both sides have been about even up until recently...now its a waiting game to see how well AMD will do on 65nm.
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But Intel's 90nm being Bulk and not specialized like IBM/AMD made 100 times more money! Or do we just overlook that? Last round I went with a 3500+ BTW.

Even as every AMD follower Drooled over everything AMD shipped. Intel always offered something until Prescott. I differ with many here because I agree Prescott stunk, I disagree with the whole Netburst stunk statements though. Northwood C and hell B caused flame wars because the swapped doing better or NOT and was app dependent. Folks even tried to downplay Hyperthreading. Now call Kyle a lier as he tested it and found it to work nicely. So that made AMD 3 highest Employees a friggen lier. Ruiz called it a Gimmick and the other two called it a Fix.

I still can't figure out why you guys keep pretending Yonah is not an Intel Product. You might want to find and give the Presler-Cedar Mill review another read?
 
Poncho said:
I'm sorry... but I just don't buy that. I was running a 660 Prescott clocked to 3.73/1066 in my other system and ran EVERY game I could play with all the eye candy turned up. It never ran that hot, despite them being "space heaters," never shut off, lagged, etc. Maybe in benchmarks AMDs stuff was faster.... but NOT in real world where it matters. Now.... hold onto your pants here cause I'm going to say something that may shock some of you..... :D

It's going to be the same thing, but in reverse with Conroe. Guess what.... if you have a high end AMD whatever processor you are not going to NOTICE a dfference in everyday useage. Sure... it'll benchmark higher, but Conroe will not all of a sudden make your eyes be able to see more fps than before. Now... i would go with Conroe over AMDs stuff for other reasons.... heat (AMDs are starting to run pretty hot), price, stability of the platform, etc.

Here's the thing... marketing sells computers, not the 2 fps that a person sees when they use a PC. Now... if marketing can show a benchmark and convince the consumer that they need those extra 2 fps... then there you have it.
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I'm sorry too because My buds and I did our own tests. Where Presler doesn't do to bad at all, Prescott XE 3.73 lost or tied game benchmarks to my Current 3500+. Now in many cases the difference couldn't noticed, but the benchmarks didn't lie. We also used Fraps and Time demos.

Hot? 3 of my buds still using Prescotts use water cooling and the others have dumpped them. They never had any other problems beside what they thought was too much heat output. I didn't bother.

I could see myself getting a Presler but no damned way I'd get a Prescott if it is not the last stepping. Doesn't matter anyway since I getting Conroe!

I love my Analog Sony Hi-8, one day I'll break down a go digital. Yes, a I can tell the difference between a 20min conversion and a 37 mins one on my 3500+ LOL! just as about 14mins on my Bud's X2, real world enough? I didn't think spending all that money to go 7 mins less was worth it, do you?
 
Donnie27 said:
Oh wait, you've been there and can prove you're NOT speculating as well, right? Dewd, look at that BOARD? Oh wait, AMD's 65nm goes on sales next week, that's not Alpha Hardware, they'll switch to So-Dimms instead of 240 pin, they'll use 200 pin, WOW. I'm so happy I got some great info from you, thank you very much ;)
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I got a pic of a 65nm desktop system as well.
 
Poncho said:
I'm sorry... but I just don't buy that. I was running a 660 Prescott clocked to 3.73/1066 in my other system and ran EVERY game I could play with all the eye candy turned up. It never ran that hot, despite them being "space heaters," never shut off, lagged, etc. Maybe in benchmarks AMDs stuff was faster.... but NOT in real world where it matters. Now.... hold onto your pants here cause I'm going to say something that may shock some of you..... :D

It's going to be the same thing, but in reverse with Conroe. Guess what.... if you have a high end AMD whatever processor you are not going to NOTICE a dfference in everyday useage. Sure... it'll benchmark higher, but Conroe will not all of a sudden make your eyes be able to see more fps than before. Now... i would go with Conroe over AMDs stuff for other reasons.... heat (AMDs are starting to run pretty hot), price, stability of the platform, etc.

Here's the thing... marketing sells computers, not the 2 fps that a person sees when they use a PC. Now... if marketing can show a benchmark and convince the consumer that they need those extra 2 fps... then there you have it.
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That's the truth behind almost everything. Unless you run time dependant apps (rendering, encoding, etc..) you won't notice much of a difference. Dual core would be much more of a upgrade to me than a couple of extra fps will. Although, Conroe gives me both.

I don't think Presscot running hot would have been such a big deal if they would have performed worth a damn. I am sure that if Conroe burned 100w's but gave 40%+ then everyone would turn a blind eye. Or alteast, I would.
 
Ockie said:
All I can say about this is that this conroe rush will create a nice big amd price war in the used market... meaning that the savings are passed onto me :)
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Amen to that!
 
Chris_Morley said:
I got a pic of a 65nm desktop system as well.
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Again, I suspect them of being early Alpha models. I read on at least 4 different sites that the first 65nm K8 as nothing but AM2 at 65nm. How hard is that? Now if Victor Wang, Coolater, Fugger, and the gang are right, hell current K8s will need to be about 3.8GHz and then how much will these cost? Now I hope you know I believe you, right?

AMD will need to do more than just make smaller K8s. If they don't, here's what will happen. It will be similar to Intel moving from P4 Smithfield at 90nm (AM2) to P4 Presler at 65nm (65nm K8). AMD will have to hope they can out MHz Intel. It closed the Gap, made a good showing but X2 was still better overall. Conroe is doing being between 3.3 and 3.6GHz on air as we Speak.

Now then as soon as AMD does catch back up, Intel then lowers the 1333MHz FSB boom. Then 1600 and 2000MHz by late 2008.

Now I know there will still be tons of folks who prefer AMD and they're not going anywhere. I'm absolutely sure Dirk and the Gang will ship another kick-ass product, I have no doubt. IMHO, K8 and that Frankensystem $ X $ ain't it! but then again, nVidia is already shipping Quad SLI for Intel systems, Dell sold how many Renegades for $10.000? Maybe that 4X4 thingy isn't as bad as I think :D
 
Donnie27 said:
I read on at least 4 different sites that the first 65nm K8 as nothing but AM2 at 65nm.
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i seriously don't think it will be a straight shrink anymore.. ;)
 
Donnie27 said:
Again, I suspect them of being early Alpha models. I read on at least 4 different sites that the first 65nm K8 as nothing but AM2 at 65nm. How hard is that? Now if Victor Wang, Coolater, Fugger, and the gang are right, hell current K8s will need to be about 3.8GHz and then how much will these cost? Now I hope you know I believe you, right?
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