Conroe & Cell Factor Demo?

nhusby

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has anyone made Cell Factor benchies with a Conroe yet?

with / without PPU and whatnot?
 

nooh

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I saw this and i thought i am going to see some but i came here and there was nothing, never mind and the answer is sorry no i havent.
 

Terra

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nooh said:
I saw this and i thought i am going to see some but i came here and there was nothing, never mind and the answer is sorry no i havent.

Not even a 8-core CPU would be able to render the physics nearly as effecient as the PPU, but no I havn't seen any benches with a Conroe and no PhysX, but the cloth would kill the Conroe, just like it kills any other CPU.

Terra - Conroe is not ~200 times faster than the other, older CPU's...
 

Flexmaster

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Terra said:
Not even a 8-core CPU would be able to render the physics nearly as effecient as the PPU, but no I havn't seen any benches with a Conroe and no PhysX, but the cloth would kill the Conroe, just like it kills any other CPU.

Terra - Conroe is not ~200 times faster than the other, older CPU's...

Wow thats the only thing it has on it? "cloth"

All of a sudden I have the need to spend $300 to see this cloth. But seriously Conroe's and the soon upcoming Quad core kentsfield have no problems with Physics, as the makers of Crysis can point out.
 

Terra

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Flexmaster said:
Wow thats the only thing it has on it? "cloth"

All of a sudden I have the need to spend $300 to see this cloth. But seriously Conroe's and the soon upcoming Quad core kentsfield have no problems with Physics, as the makers of Crysis can point out.

You are sadly mistaken.
Do you even know how much faster than a 1-, 2-, 4-, 8- or 16-core CPU?
The design and architechture of a CPU is inherent bad for the type of calculations physcis requires.
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1029360261&postcount=22

Admittedly these numbers are bit old, and biased, but Ageia says current hardware and software can handle roughly 200 objects while their hardware with proper software can handle about 32,000 objects.

Assuming (generously) they mean 200 objects with a single CPU and just 10% of the processor dedicated to physics then we should be able to estimate an 8 processor situation...

Assuming 7 processors would be used for physics, the other one for everything else we get 7*200 = 1400 objects.
Then (again generously) assuming each processor would effectively be at 80% efficiency (you always lose power when sharing between multiple CPU's), we get 1400*8 = 11,200 objects.

So being reasonably generous to the CPU's, a single 8 core CPU would only get us to about 1/3rd the physics processing power of a single PPU.

And that's all assuming someone bothers to program for multi-processor physics, which would be pointless with PPU's available.

Anyone can tell you this, no matter if they are rooting for AGEIA's, ATI's or NVIDIA's solution...

Terra...
 

Flexmaster

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Terra said:
You are sadly mistaken.
Do you even know how much faster than a 1-, 2-, 4-, 8- or 16-core CPU?
The design and architechture of a CPU is inherent bad for the type of calculations physcis requires.
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1029360261&postcount=22

CPU's can be programmed to use one core soley for physics calculations and as I said look what Crytek has been able to do. More than Ageia, ATI, and Nvidia combined.
 

Terra

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Flexmaster said:
CPU's can be programmed to use one core soley for physics calculations and as I said look what Crytek has been able to do. More than Ageia, ATI, and Nvidia combined.

You simply don't understand.
The CPU is jack of all trades, master of none.
If your claim where to be true the Conroe would be sufficent for graphics to..no need for a GPU :rolleyes:
The same applies to the CPU vs. PPU.
The PPU is designed for MASSIVE parallel physcis calcuations...and does that WAY better than any CPU...even a 8 core CPU.
The GPU is designed for MASSIVE parallel pixel, vertex and shading calculations...and does that WAY better than any CPU...even a 8 core CPU.
Even though the pysics and graphics data are treated differently, they are MASSIVE parallel...and not something a CPU is very happy about...

Terra - Please do read up...
 

nhusby

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argh.... I had no claims that it was going to be able to replace teh PPU...

I was just hoping for some better performance both with and without the PPU.
I dont remember hearing average FPS's getting much over 20...
 

Terra

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nhusby said:
argh.... I had no claims that it was going to be able to replace teh PPU...

I was just hoping for some better performance both with and without the PPU.
I dont remember hearing average FPS's getting much over 20...

I have heard people stating that it's capped at 45 FPS, so somebody is hitting those framerates.
I havn't had time to FRAPS CF yet, but will report back hwne I have had the time :)

But remember CellFactor use a lot of cutting egde graphical stuff, from HDR to per-pixel-motionblur so it's also very taxing on the GPU and would...

Terra - And I know you are not the one making the CPU-claim ;)
 

Flexmaster

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Terra said:
You simply don't understand.
The CPU is jack of all trades, master of none.
If your claim where to be true the Conroe would be sufficent for graphics to..no need for a GPU :rolleyes:
The same applies to the CPU vs. PPU.
The PPU is designed for MASSIVE parallel physcis calcuations...and does that WAY better than any CPU...even a 8 core CPU.
The GPU is designed for MASSIVE parallel pixel, vertex and shading calculations...and does that WAY better than any CPU...even a 8 core CPU.
Even though the pysics and graphics data are treated differently, they are MASSIVE parallel...and not something a CPU is very happy about...

Terra - Please do read up...

Hey you can read all you want but what I care about is what I can see, and so far.

Ageia 0
ATI 0
Nvidia 0

And CPU's have given us the effects seen in Half Life 2 and now Crysis.

Go read your PR, while I play games with actual physics.....
 

Terra

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Flexmaster said:
Hey you can read all you want but what I care about is what I can see, and so far.

Ageia 0
ATI 0
Nvidia 0

And CPU's have given us the effects seen in Half Life 2 and now Crysis.

Go read your PR, while I play games with actual physics.....

*ROFL*
Don't know what you are smoking, but it's not good for you...

Terra - Welcome to my ignore...
 

Flexmaster

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Terra said:
*ROFL*
Don't know what you are smoking, but it's not good for you...

Terra - Welcome to my ignore...

Your the one smoking something if you think they delivered anything because so far they have shown nada, nothing.

CPU's did everything you see in Half Life 2 and that is light years beyond anything AGEIA has shown in plyable form.

P.S. Nobody cares who you ignore...
 

pArTy

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Theres a big difference between games with PPU support and games without PPU support like half life 2. PPUs were created more for physics on extreme scale compared to half life 2. Like watter, fog, or some other liquad which usaly uses tons of little balls to calculate the physics. Unlike half life 2 which just handles objects and nothing complex. I do believe that todays CPUs can handle over 200 object per CPU. I use to do physics rendering for CG movies and the intel P4 at 2.4ghz could do about 5,000 particles in real time. Anything over that and it wouldnt be real time. Conroe is probley about 4 times or more faster than my intel P4. I'm totaly up for PPUs but they are just starting and are no where near what they will be in like 5 years if they can hang around. Personaly I cant wait from 10 years from now where you have real weather, watter, blood and other simulations like that in games. It will be pretty amazing.
 

Killa_2327

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Flexmaster said:
Your the one smoking something if you think they delivered anything because so far they have shown nada, nothing.

CPU's did everything you see in Half Life 2 and that is light years beyond anything AGEIA has shown in plyable form.

P.S. Nobody cares who you ignore...

No shit. Yes, what they are doing is cool and all but until I see something impressive I can use online PhysX means nothing to me. Plus a lot of there stuff really isn't that impressive. The gasoline lava flamethrower thing from Bet On Soldier, it looks so bad when they shoot it. CF isn't too impressive, dull terrain with a shit load of boxes. Heavy Rain, the hair doesn't look that amazing to me. The avalanche in that snowboarding game, horrible. GRAW, come on, it doesn't look that good. The only thing that looked good to me so far was fluids and metal bending, but these are in future titles. They don't have anything going for them and since these aren't released yet we cant make CPU vs PPU tests too see how much of a difference they make.

Come on Terra, make me a believer. :cool:
 

Flexmaster

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Killa_2327 said:
No shit. Yes, what they are doing is cool and all but until I see something impressive I can use online PhysX means nothing to me. Plus a lot of there stuff really isn't that impressive. The gasoline lava flamethrower thing from Bet On Soldier, it looks so bad when they shoot it. CF isn't too impressive, dull terrain with a shit load of boxes. Heavy Rain, the hair doesn't look that amazing to me. The avalanche in that snowboarding game, horrible. GRAW, come on, it doesn't look that good. The only thing that looked good to me so far was fluids and metal bending, but these are in future titles. They don't have anything going for them and since these aren't released yet we cant make CPU vs PPU tests too see how much of a difference they make.

Come on Terra, make me a believer. :cool:
Atleast someones got it. ;)
 

MrWizard6600

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pArTy said:
Theres a big difference between games with PPU support and games without PPU support like half life 2. PPUs were created more for physics on extreme scale compared to half life 2. Like watter, fog, or some other liquad which usaly uses tons of little balls to calculate the physics. Unlike half life 2 which just handles objects and nothing complex. I do believe that todays CPUs can handle over 200 object per CPU. I use to do physics rendering for CG movies and the intel P4 at 2.4ghz could do about 5,000 particles in real time. Anything over that and it wouldnt be real time. Conroe is probley about 4 times or more faster than my intel P4. I'm totaly up for PPUs but they are just starting and are no where near what they will be in like 5 years if they can hang around. Personaly I cant wait from 10 years from now where you have real weather, watter, blood and other simulations like that in games. It will be pretty amazing.

currently this guy sounds more educated then the rest of us. im takin this guys word for it untel i c some benchies.
 

Terra

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Cubewall demo:

NO PhysX hardware support, click image for file:
(Type: avi, 12.34MB)



PhysX HARDWARE support, click image for file:
(Type: avi, 15.84MB)



MY CPU is a Pentium D 950, 2 GB DDR RAM(2-3-3-6) and the preformance is like night and day...
~1FPS with only CPU and 50% load and 5-10 FPS with the PhysX on no CPU to speak of...

Terra - This should stop the stupidity... :rolleyes:
 
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We all understand that physics cards/other physics solutions will be important in the future, but why are we arguing about how well the ageia will handle physics if it's not even implemented by games yet. I guarantee you that when an advanced physics solution will be necessary, there will be A. Better cards, B. cheaper+older cards, C. Mainstream/budget solutions like Havok, or D. any combination of the above. There's no point in arguing about physics now since there is no compelling reason why you should get an advanced physics computing solution right now.
- Feces
 

Killa_2327

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Terra said:
Terra - This should stop the stupidity... :rolleyes:

Doesn't do anything for me. It's still not being used in a game, and even when it is, you think they are going to use that many blocks, all textured, in a very detailed level with vehicles and multiple players?

I'm looking forward to better things but I'm about sick of falling blocks and exploding boxes.
 
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Killa_2327 said:
Doesn't do anything for me. It's still not being used in a game, and even when it is, you think they are going to use that many blocks, all textured, in a very detailed level with vehicles and multiple players?

I'm looking forward to better things but I'm about sick of falling blocks and exploding boxes.
I don't think anyone is trying to push the product on you, but I agree it's not necessary. It probably won't ever become necessary. It will probably become a nice perk for hardware enthusiasts 2 years from now if titles utilized the card and provided breath taking performance. With alternate solutions like multi core cpus and video card physics processing,
I doubt a physics card will ever become necessary. As of now, physics cards will only appeal /fall into the hands of people who have expendable incomes, don't quite know what they are buying (people who go to dell/alienware and slap together the most expensive pc), or both.
-Feces
 

Killa_2327

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Monkey_feces said:
I don't think anyone is trying to push the product on you, but I agree it's not necessary. It probably won't ever become necessary. It will probably become a nice perk for hardware enthusiasts 2 years from now if titles utilized the card and provided breath taking performance. With alternate solutions like multi core cpus and video card physics processing,
I doubt a physics card will ever become necessary. As of now, physics cards will only appeal /fall into the hands of people who have expendable incomes, don't quite know what they are buying (people who go to dell/alienware and slap together the most expensive pc), or both.
-Feces

I know, but I'd like someone to show and give me a valid reason to be excited, which hasn't happened yet.
 

Terra

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Killa_2327 said:
Doesn't do anything for me. It's still not being used in a game, and even when it is, you think they are going to use that many blocks, all textured, in a very detailed level with vehicles and multiple players?

I'm looking forward to better things but I'm about sick of falling blocks and exploding boxes.

Dosn't do anything for meeither, except proving(wit a small simple program) that the PPU > CPU for physcis...unlike some of the previously FUD that somone else posted in this thread...

But the "tired of bosex" comment is quite funny.
When HL2 did it(VERY LIMITIED) the games rejoiced..and more...and it's bad and boring? :rolleyes:
EDIT: Are you tired of realistic cloth too..or fluids...and have you even tried them or are you seoking with out any experince??

And if you think "boxes" is all the PPU is about, you really do need to read up.
Start with the FAQ...

Terra - Funny when you put people on ignore they that posting to you (and against you)...funny monkey buisness.. :p
 

Terra

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Killa_2327 said:
I know, but I'd like someone to show and give me a valid reason to be excited, which hasn't happened yet.

Define valid.
YOUR personal opinion...or valid argument.?

Terra - BIG difference...
 

cyks

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Monkey_feces said:
With alternate solutions like multi core cpus and video card physics processing,
CPUs will never be an alternate solution anylonger. Did even you look at the first page?

Maybe you can load up your physics demos on your multi core CPU and your videocards and run some benchmarks like terra did? Or are you just here to nit pick?
 

cyks

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Killa_2327 said:
Doesn't do anything for me. It's still not being used in a game,
Do you honestly belive that, once entering a game, a CPU will suddenly perform like dedicated hardware?

There was little to nothing else left for Terra's CPU to process in that trial, so 50% load with 1 FPS is rather good for a CPU. A game would easily bring 50 --> 20
 
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cyks said:
CPUs will never be an alternate solution anylonger. Did even you look at the first page?

Maybe you can load up your physics demos on your multi core CPU and your videocards and run some benchmarks like terra did? Or are you just here to nit pick?
You're avoiding the fact you just don't need it. Did you read my posts, or are you here to troll?
I said that mainstream physics effects probably won't need the power of a ppu. Maybe integrated physics computing on a video card or a multi core cpu will be able to fill the mainstream user's physics processing needs. It's too early to tell anything, which is why I only dealt with maybies, but if all of a sudden games required you to run a $300 upgrade to play the game, chances are the game won't sell well and no one would buy the upgrade. It can work in reverse as well. If the mainstream solution is cheap onboard/ multi cores, then games will be programmed to utilize only as much power as those mainstream solutions provide. One thing is certain, if you jump on a ppu now, you are taking a gamble that you will lose on. Even if ppus become the most spectacular invention since the wheel, the thing will not carry a rediculous price when it is actually utilized beyond exploding box demos. The only way I can fathom someone owning a ppu right now is if they (insert reasons from previous post) or if they stole it. :rolleyes:
 

Terra

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cyks said:
Do you honestly belive that, once entering a game, a CPU will suddenly perform like dedicated hardware?

There was little to nothing else left for Terra's CPU to process in that trial, so 50% load with 1 FPS is rather good for a CPU. A game would easily bring 50 --> 20

That and then I noticed I even use 18 MB RAM less when running Cubewall vwith PhysX hardware support...
Must be because the physcis-engine(or part of) and the calculations are offloaded to the PPU and it's onboard RAM...

So better frames(the video REALLY show how bogged down the CPU is when running), less CPU load and less RAM usage...

3 improvements, 0 degradings...the winner...in the blue corner: PhysX :cool:

Terra - I wonder what the next FUD attempt is going to be..soundcard better than the PPU? ;) :D
 
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Terra said:
That and then I noticed I even use 18 MB RAM less when running Cubewall vwith PhysX hardware support...
Must be because the physcis-engine(or part of) and the calculations are offloaded to the PPU and it's onboard RAM...

So better frames(the video REALLY show how bogged down the CPU is when running), less CPU load and less RAM usage...

3 improvements, 0 degradings...the winner...in the blue corner: PhysX :cool:

Terra - I wonder what the next FUD attempt is going to be..soundcard better than the PPU? ;) :D
Do you actually own a PPU? Fear Uncertainty and doubt are only good things when it comes down to ppus. It's a losing gamble. Scenario 1. They never get impemented to full potential, havok is sufficient, ageia goes belly up. 2. PPUs are used to a lesser extent, ageia is top of the line and overly excessive, $100 ppu will cut it. 3. Ageia current gen becomes obsolete, cards w/ 3x power are available at the same price. 4. Whatever the hell you guys can think of for a 4th scenario, I'm all out.
FUD is good here. I fear the ppu won't be a good investment, there is no compelling reason why I should get one. I am uncertain that it will be utilized in the future. I doubt if it will be useful right now or if I waste my money and jump the gun too early if it is ever useful. If you have no feelings of FUD regarding the PPU and purchasing it at this moment, then I would be surprised that you're living after disregarding the FUD of the stove or funny chemicals under the sink when you were a todler.
Feces- Terra, if you own the ppu, then, "Ageia is the sanctuary for those that can't face reality". No offense, but it seems like you are pushing the ppu on people who know it's unnecessary right now. If you don't have it, I'm sure there's no reason to argue because all
of us realize it can be very important in the future.
 

nhusby

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is it just me, or does the PPU (wether it be a 2nd or 3rd GPU or an Ageia PPU) recieve more resistance and flak than other hardware? I dont know about everyone else, but I dont go into the video card thread and tell people that their x1900 GTO Crossfire rig is a $3000 paper weight... or that their GX2's are worthless because they dont make a difference in online play...

I was simply hoping to see if the new architecture in the Conroe benefits games designed for Ageia's PPU.

a few months back [H] did an article on CPU scaling and found that most games were GPU limited. I want to see if the Conroe makes a difference in Cell Factor.
 

psychoace

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Anyone see Bioshock and it's liquid system? Looks awesome and it's all done without any PPU or GPU acceleration. Now it only seems cloth is next on the list for developers to do without any help. Hopefully they can take the time and effort to do it.
 
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nhusby said:
is it just me, or does the PPU (wether it be a 2nd or 3rd GPU or an Ageia PPU) recieve more resistance and flak than other hardware? I dont know about everyone else, but I dont go into the video card thread and tell people that their x1900 GTO Crossfire rig is a $3000 paper weight... or that their GX2's are worthless because they dont make a difference in online play...

I was simply hoping to see if the new architecture in the Conroe benefits games designed for Ageia's PPU.

a few months back [H] did an article on CPU scaling and found that most games were GPU limited. I want to see if the Conroe makes a difference in Cell Factor.
How is the x1900xtx crossfire paper weight? How does a gx2 not make a difference in online play? Right now, the conroe is worse than any dual card configuration. Dual card configurations make you pay 2x the money for a 50% performance boost. A $700 conroe will provide a .0009999999 performance boost over a $100 A64 3500+, given that you stress the card enough to offset the bottleneck. Even synthetic benchmarks seem to agree with my. A 7600gt with roughly the same clocks will provide the same 13 fps as my 7600gt w/ a netburst @ 3.3ghz vs a netburst @ 4.8ghz.
The ppu gets so much flak because you pay $300 for boxes and explosions.... in demos. No game company will invest precious R&D funds to transfer the boxes and explosions from demos into a game for the 5 people that own a ppu. It's corporate suicide. I guarantee you that when they notice everyone has decent physics calculators on their video cards, they will provide decent physics acceleration/ calculation.
 

Digital Viper-X-

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isnt cubewall CODED to run on a PPU vs a CPU? why not get a program that has been programmed to run physics on a CPU and see how well it fares? it might be true that the PhysX PPU is alot better then a cpu at physics calculations, but that could also be because we havnt had powerfull enough cpus / enough cores to run the physics calculations so no one codes for physics on a CPU yet, but now with X2 / PD / Conroe things might change a bit o.0

I could be off here but don't "simulations" use CPUs to do the physics? and those seem to be running ok =p
 

Terra

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nhusby said:
is it just me, or does the PPU (wether it be a 2nd or 3rd GPU or an Ageia PPU) recieve more resistance and flak than other hardware? I dont know about everyone else, but I dont go into the video card thread and tell people that their x1900 GTO Crossfire rig is a $3000 paper weight... or that their GX2's are worthless because they dont make a difference in online play...

I was simply hoping to see if the new architecture in the Conroe benefits games designed for Ageia's PPU.

a few months back [H] did an article on CPU scaling and found that most games were GPU limited. I want to see if the Conroe makes a difference in Cell Factor.

Yes, AGIEA gets a lot of flak but they are also up...against ATI/NVIDIA is dosn't shy from viral marketing...go figure ;)

Beside the Conroe would be GPU limited in CellFactor is my bet...just like a PD/X2 would be....but I guess that it okay as long as the GPU is the bottleneck? :confused:

Terra...
 

Terra

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Digital Viper-X- said:
isnt cubewall CODED to run on a PPU vs a CPU? why not get a program that has been programmed to run physics on a CPU and see how well it fares? it might be true that the PhysX PPU is alot better then a cpu at physics calculations, but that could also be because we havnt had powerfull enough cpus / enough cores to run the physics calculations so no one codes for physics on a CPU yet, but now with X2 / PD / Conroe things might change a bit o.0

I could be off here but don't "simulations" use CPUs to do the physics? and those seem to be running ok =p

The Conroe is at best 2x time the preformance of my Pentium D 950(2x3.4Ghz), but look at this:
http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_090d.html



Conroe is stil WAAAY behind the PPU in physcis, and even if Pacifc Fithers is a great simulatr, there are a LOT of room for improvement in flight dynamics, damge models ect ect...
Simulations would be a good place to tap into the power of the PPU...
Not every gamer is a teen gaming FPS....

Terra - Sorry to break it, but Conroe is no PPU kiler...dual or quadcore...or 8-core
 

nhusby

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Monkey_feces said:
How is the x1900xtx crossfire paper weight? How does a gx2 not make a difference in online play? Right now, the conroe is worse than any dual card configuration. Dual card configurations make you pay 2x the money for a 50% performance boost. A $700 conroe will provide a .0009999999 performance boost over a $100 A64 3500+, given that you stress the card enough to offset the bottleneck. Even synthetic benchmarks seem to agree with my. A 7600gt with roughly the same clocks will provide the same 13 fps as my 7600gt w/ a netburst @ 3.3ghz vs a netburst @ 4.8ghz.
The ppu gets so much flak because you pay $300 for boxes and explosions.... in demos. No game company will invest precious R&D funds to transfer the boxes and explosions from demos into a game for the 5 people that own a ppu. It's corporate suicide. I guarantee you that when they notice everyone has decent physics calculators on their video cards, they will provide decent physics acceleration/ calculation.

I was saying those things for an example, not stating them as my opinion or as fact, but as long as we are on that point (this is not my opinion, but rather just an argument) what in game benefit does a top of the line processor or SLI / CF give you? shit, SLI doesnt even give me flying boxes... worthless crap... maybe it'd double my FPS... Not that I would notice. Considering DVD's are 30FPS, and I've never noticed the refresh on them... Shit, what would a Conroe or FX64 do for me? Probubly wouldnt even give me another worthless 20FPS... WoW. I could build a system for $1500 that could do everything your $3000 system could (I really dont know what you have, or what you spent), plus have flying boxes!
 

HOCP4ME

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Guys, pleas stop saying that the PPU is worthless because it just gives you piles of boxes. Saying that is like saying that a GX2 is worthless because it just gives you pretty colors and shadows. Hey, at least the PPU gives you something that actually improves gameplay.

It will be a very, very long time before a CPU can keep up with a PPU in physics. Sure, developers can do some awesome things on a CPU today. But they can do much more with a PPU.

Now, let me explain why the PPU is more than boxes:

Say you're in an FPS game. A one-on-one battle between you and your opponent is going on inside a manufactuing plant. There is a stack of packages on the wall. You put a well placed bullet into one of the packages. It falls out of place, causing the entire stack of boxes to come crashing down onto your enemy, killing him instantly. Adds a whole new dimesion of strategy to FPS, doesn't it?

Now, imagine you're on a mission to take out the headquarters of your enemy. As you approach the building, however, some guards spot you, and a firefight emerges. Bullets tear through the building left and right. Eventually, the building's structural integrity is compromised, and the building realistically collapses, killing all inside it.

Now, imagine you're hiding from an enemy behind a wall. But you don't realize that your enemy is carrying a larger weapon than you anticipated. He fires the weapon through the wall. The PPU calculates exactly how much velocity the bullet is going to have after going through the wall. It determines that, while the bullet won't be going fast enough to kill you, it will be enough to stun you for a few seconds.

Think about a combat flight simulator. Except now, instead of just modeling the exterior of the plane, the fuel lines, hydraulic lines, fuel tanks, and all engine parts are also modelled. An enemy fires several bullets at you. One of them pierces the the fuel line, causing fuel to rapidly spill inside the wing on a realistic path. Another bullet cuts some electrical lines, causing your cockpit lights to go out.

The leaking fuel reaches the cut power lines, and the PPU quickly calculates that the resulting explosion will be enough to destroy the hydraulic lines going to the left aeilrons, as well as blow a hole in the wing and destroy the left engine. Pieces of shrapnel from the blast injure you, inhibiting your abillity to operate the controls for several seconds. When you finally regain control, you realize you have a challenge ahead of you; the hole in the left wing makes your plane much less aerodynamic, and keep trying to turn the plane to the left.

You are able to regain control, despite having only one engine, one aeilron, and no cockpit lights. But then you realize that you've forgotten to close the fuel crossfeed. The right engine goes out as the last of your fuel drops from the left wing into the sea below.

With no engines and hardly any control, you know you must make a water landing. But then, you see an island to your left. You fly over to the island and prepare for a crash landing. Because of the damage, your flaps don't work, forcing you to land at a very high speed. Luckily, the landing gear still works, so you may have a chance at survival. As your plane hits the bumpy surface, the PPU goes to work yet again, calculating the damage that will be incurred to the gear and plane. Your nose wheel strikes a rock. flipping the plane over. The PPU quickly determines how much the pilot will be injured as a result of this. You survive the crash, but just barely, and will be unable to fly again. For you, the campaign is over.


^Now try doing THAT on a CPU.


Here's what I see happening. Developers will begin by using physics that can be done on either a GPU or a PPU. If you don't want to buy a PPU, you'll have to turn down eye-candy settings to free up your GPU for the physics. Real enthusiasts will buy a PPU so they can have the best eye-candy and physics. Eventually, as the PPU improves and the price goes down, more people will buy one, and developers will begin programming for the PPU only. Once it becomes "required", some companies may begin putting them on motherboards.
 

Flexmaster

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 11, 2006
Messages
141
Terra said:
Cubewall demo:

NO PhysX hardware support, click image for file:
(Type: avi, 12.34MB)



PhysX HARDWARE support, click image for file:
(Type: avi, 15.84MB)



MY CPU is a Pentium D 950, 2 GB DDR RAM(2-3-3-6) and the preformance is like night and day...
~1FPS with only CPU and 50% load and 5-10 FPS with the PhysX on no CPU to speak of...

Terra - This should stop the stupidity... :rolleyes:

Not a game, just more demos and PR.

You Fail.
 

psychoace

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Messages
1,068
HOCP4ME said:
Guys, pleas stop saying that the PPU is worthless because it just gives you piles of boxes. Saying that is like saying that a GX2 is worthless because it just gives you pretty colors and shadows. Hey, at least the PPU gives you something that actually improves gameplay.

It will be a very, very long time before a CPU can keep up with a PPU in physics. Sure, developers can do some awesome things on a CPU today. But they can do much more with a PPU.

Now, let me explain why the PPU is more than boxes:

Say you're in an FPS game. A one-on-one battle between you and your opponent is going on inside a manufactuing plant. There is a stack of packages on the wall. You put a well placed bullet into one of the packages. It falls out of place, causing the entire stack of boxes to come crashing down onto your enemy, killing him instantly. Adds a whole new dimesion of strategy to FPS, doesn't it?

CPU can do that also that is just boxes

Now, imagine you're on a mission to take out the headquarters of your enemy. As you approach the building, however, some guards spot you, and a firefight emerges. Bullets tear through the building left and right. Eventually, the building's structural integrity is compromised, and the building realistically collapses, killing all inside it.

Yet to see it from a ppu yet so who knows if it can handle such depth

Now, imagine you're hiding from an enemy behind a wall. But you don't realize that your enemy is carrying a larger weapon than you anticipated. He fires the weapon through the wall. The PPU calculates exactly how much velocity the bullet is going to have after going through the wall. It determines that, while the bullet won't be going fast enough to kill you, it will be enough to stun you for a few seconds.

Think about a combat flight simulator. Except now, instead of just modeling the exterior of the plane, the fuel lines, hydraulic lines, fuel tanks, and all engine parts are also modelled. An enemy fires several bullets at you. One of them pierces the the fuel line, causing fuel to rapidly spill inside the wing on a realistic path. Another bullet cuts some electrical lines, causing your cockpit lights to go out.

Sounds more like hit detection then physics. If you play quake 3 a bullet to the head is instant kill while a shot to the leg will only injure you slightly. They most likely haven't done anything like this stuff yet is because it's to time consuming and modeling stuff that you wont see is going to push back release dates

The leaking fuel reaches the cut power lines, and the PPU quickly calculates that the resulting explosion will be enough to destroy the hydraulic lines going to the left aeilrons, as well as blow a hole in the wing and destroy the left engine. Pieces of shrapnel from the blast injure you, inhibiting your abillity to operate the controls for several seconds. When you finally regain control, you realize you have a challenge ahead of you; the hole in the left wing makes your plane much less aerodynamic, and keep trying to turn the plane to the left.

You are able to regain control, despite having only one engine, one aeilron, and no cockpit lights. But then you realize that you've forgotten to close the fuel crossfeed. The right engine goes out as the last of your fuel drops from the left wing into the sea below.

With no engines and hardly any control, you know you must make a water landing. But then, you see an island to your left. You fly over to the island and prepare for a crash landing. Because of the damage, your flaps don't work, forcing you to land at a very high speed. Luckily, the landing gear still works, so you may have a chance at survival. As your plane hits the bumpy surface, the PPU goes to work yet again, calculating the damage that will be incurred to the gear and plane. Your nose wheel strikes a rock. flipping the plane over. The PPU quickly determines how much the pilot will be injured as a result of this. You survive the crash, but just barely, and will be unable to fly again. For you, the campaign is over.

PPU dosn't determine the damage you take the game does that with the cpu. Did you see the video of the plane crashing in 3dmarks 2003 i believe it was? Also your PPU will just calculate the explosion your game engine will determine the hit detection and what is damaged.
^Now try doing THAT on a CPU.


Here's what I see happening. Developers will begin by using physics that can be done on either a GPU or a PPU. If you don't want to buy a PPU, you'll have to turn down eye-candy settings to free up your GPU for the physics. Real enthusiasts will buy a PPU so they can have the best eye-candy and physics. Eventually, as the PPU improves and the price goes down, more people will buy one, and developers will begin programming for the PPU only. Once it becomes "required", some companies may begin putting them on motherboards.
Comments inside quote
Last you can have 1 gpu for video and 1 gpu for physics so you don't lose out on graphic quality or you can have 2 gpus for video and 1 gpu for physics. I am just repeating whats been said 1,000 times in this forum.
 
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