Concerning the AOTS image quality controversy

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cageymaru

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Concerning the AOTS image quality controversy.
Concerning the AOTS image quality controversy • /r/Amd

Go ask Robert Hallock some questions before he leaves the thread.

Some notable quotes:


Hi. Now that I'm off of my 10-hour airplane ride to Oz, and I have reliable internet, I can share some insight.

System specs:


    • CPU: i7 5930K
    • RAM: 32GB DDR4-2400Mhz
    • Motherboard: Asrock X99M Killer
    • GPU config 1: 2x Radeon RX 480 @ PCIE 3.0 x16 for each GPU
    • GPU config 2: Founders Edition GTX 1080
    • OS: Win 10 64bit
    • AMD Driver: 16.30-160525n-230356E
    • NV Driver: 368.19
    • In Game Settings for both configs: Crazy Settings | 1080P | 8x MSAA | VSYNC OFF

Ashes Game Version: v1.12.19928

Benchmark results:

2x Radeon RX 480 - 62.5 fps | Single Batch GPU Util: 51% | Med Batch GPU Util: 71.9 | Heavy Batch GPU Util: 92.3% GTX 1080 – 58.7 fps | Single Batch GPU Util: 98.7%| Med Batch GPU Util: 97.9% | Heavy Batch GPU Util: 98.7%

The elephant in the room:

Ashes uses procedural generation based on a randomized seed at launch. The benchmark does look slightly different every time it is run. But that, many have noted, does not fully explain the quality difference people noticed.

At present the GTX 1080 is incorrectly executing the terrain shaders responsible for populating the environment with the appropriate amount of snow. The GTX 1080 is doing less work to render AOTS than it otherwise would if the shader were being run properly. Snow is somewhat flat and boring in color compared to shiny rocks, which gives the illusion that less is being rendered, but this is an incorrect interpretation of how the terrain shaders are functioning in this title.

The content being rendered by the RX 480--the one with greater snow coverage in the side-by-side (the left in these images)--is the correct execution of the terrain shaders.

So, even with fudgy image quality on the GTX 1080 that could improve their performance a few percent, dual RX 480 still came out ahead.

As a parting note, I will mention we ran this test 10x prior to going on-stage to confirm the performance delta was accurate. Moving up to 1440p at the same settings maintains the same performance delta within +/-1%.



Ok I got some questions, if you're not using vsync or locked fps why is the GPU usage so low and not at 100% pushing maximum FPS?

DX12 uses Explicit Multi-Adapter. The scaling depends on how mGPU is implemented into the engine, and future patches could boost scaling more for any vendor or any GPU combination that works. Besides that, migrating to full production-grade drivers would help. But as you can image, the drivers are still beta. I'm not promising earth-shattering improvements, here, but there are many variables in play that wouldn't be present with GPUs that have been released for 12+ months.

DX12 explicit multi-adapter is not CrossFire. We do not control how mGPU functions in DX12 or Vulkan.




BlitzWulfi7-5820k@4.5GHz XFX R9 390X@1180/1650 18 points 2 hours ago*

Thanks for the post, may I ask one question though? When it's claimed that there is only 51% GPU utilization does that mean 51% of each GPU is being utilized or that the performance scaling is equivalent to 151% of a single card?

  • permalink
  • AMD_RobertTechnical Marketing[S] 24 points an hour ago

    Scaling is 151% of a single card.



Thank you very much for clearing that up ,If I could trouble you once more I have another question.

There has been footage/photos of DOOM running on an RX 480, some people have claimed that this demo was at 1080p resolution I am under the impression that all DOOM demos run on the RX 480 at Computex were using 1440p VSR on 1080p monitors,am I mistaken?

AMD_RobertTechnical Marketing[S] 11 points 55 minutes ago

1080p monitor running at 1440p with VSR.


 
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cageymaru

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Dan Baker from Oxide whom happens to be the developer of the game weighs in on Twitter.

 

limitedaccess

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The more interesting information was if you extrapolate from the information given this means one RX 480 is 70.5% the performance of GTX 1080 in AoTS 1080p Crazy Settings with 8xMSAA.

Now if we find reviews done with a GTX 1080 and a R9 390/x to Fury with such settings, we can estimate where performance will sit relative to AMDs current stack.
 

cageymaru

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The more interesting information was if you extrapolate from the information given this means one RX 480 is 70.5% the performance of GTX 1080 in AoTS 1080p Crazy Settings with 8xMSAA.

Now if we find reviews done with a GTX 1080 and a R9 390/x to Fury with such settings, we can estimate where performance will sit relative to AMDs current stack.

Just grab a friendly [H]ardocp chap from the Firestrike thread in the Nvidia subsection as they are testing their new GTX 1080's right now. I'm sure that one of them would be willing and has the game installed. Should be easy enough to get a rough idea of performance even though the game builds may have changed.
 

Ocellaris

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The more interesting information was if you extrapolate from the information given this means one RX 480 is 70.5% the performance of GTX 1080 in AoTS 1080p Crazy Settings with 8xMSAA.

Now if we find reviews done with a GTX 1080 and a R9 390/x to Fury with such settings, we can estimate where performance will sit relative to AMDs current stack.

My takeaway was that AotS benchmarks shouldn't be used for anything. Snow shader or not, the second to last photo shows the left screen had fewer troops on displayed. During the demo the uneven results were easily visible and AMD didn't make it clear which card was which.
 

cageymaru

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Ashes of the Singularity

Disclaimer: I have a new Gigabyte GA-990FX-Gaming motherboard and it hates my Crucial 32GB of memory. So I stuck my old 8GB of Corsair 1866 back into it. Also I have all the power saving stuff on as I have it set to stock settings in the bios for now as I'm getting used to this motherboard. So using my numbers isn't the best idea.

What is the stock clock for a R9 390 anyways? I ran that benchmark at 1150 / 1500.
 

limitedaccess

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It's technically 1000/5000 for 390.

What I'm really looking for is relative difference to a GTX 1080, as I feel comparing across architectures (especially across companies) via one benchmark is tricky to say the least. I think we can presume Polaris more similar to Hawaii/Fiji then Pascal.

My takeaway was that AotS benchmarks shouldn't be used for anything. Snow shader or not, the second to last photo shows the left screen had fewer troops on displayed. During the demo the uneven results were easily visible and AMD didn't make it clear which card was which.

Well this is what we have so far. But we can maybe get a rough estimate whether or not it is closer to Hawaii (some variant) or Fiji (well really Fury).

And yes I realize the variability in data for benchmarks in general, and particularly this one. Not really looking at direct Pascal comparisons due to different architectures (see above), 70.5% according to AMD's test in this specific scenario and not in general.
 

cageymaru

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I'll try the benchmark again in a bit. My electric utility has flicked our grid out twice in the past hour. They cut them out in the middle of a benchmark run just then. If they roast my PC again.... :rage:
 

Zion Halcyon

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It's an interesting read. However in a sense, it also is burying the lead.

The real story is, AMD has blown so much smoke in the past over performance of their products, that even when something reasonable and plausible can be used to explain something, we doubt it, because AMD.

I really hope AMD can learn that a little integrity can go a long way.
 

cageymaru

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So if the game scaled properly, the cards should have hit 80 fps or so and my fake (2x) R9 390 would hit 70 fps? Or did I do it wrong? :)

So many crickets. :yawn:
 

Quix

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You do need to factor in that AotS is pretty much a best-case scenario for Radeon cards because of all the individual units and physics processing (AMD cards beat Nvidia at physics). It looks like the 480 is going to come in somewhere between the 390x and Fury and for $200. That's a deal for sure.
 

FrgMstr

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Kyle, look, we all get it in terms of AotS being more of a glorified bench than an actual game people are playing. You don't need to keep beating people over the head with it.

At the same time, it also is the closest we have to a true representation of a DX 12 game, so until a better representation comes along, people are going to continue to use it.

Or to put it another way, it's like using a rock to pound a nail instead of a hammer, because you don't have a hammer. Its less than ideal, but it is what you have. And thus until you can get a proper hammer, you use the rock. And sure, you can mock people who are using the rock, but all that really matters is this: were you able to drive in the nail?
Have you actually read about our DX12 gaming experiences so far?

Sounds like you just want something top bich about.

So how did you like the AotS game?
 

Yakk

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Still playing a good amount of AoTS here, best AI of any strategy game I've played bar none. My mGPU scaling is about 70-80% which seems about standard for this game.
 

{NG}Fidel

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I guess since AOTS doesnt have the marketing budget of COD its suddenly not a valid game in any way?
Im confused, when did we start judging which games were games and which games were teh sucks?
 

cageymaru

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To be honest I haven't played but one game since December / January and that one is Black Desert Online. Too many real life events to do much more.
 

Dullard

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So wait... We've heard time and again that the Polaris or 480 or whatever it's called is a mainstream card not meant to compete with the likes of the Pascal 1080. So why was AMD's own 480 comparison against a 1080? With two 480s, no less? Hell, why not throw three or four 480s in there, that'll show 'em!
 

{NG}Fidel

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Because they are driving the price point across.
Is that really hard to grasp?
 

staknhalo

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I guess since AOTS doesnt have the marketing budget of COD its suddenly not a valid game in any way?
Im confused, when did we start judging which games were games and which games were teh sucks?

The [H] gaming suite for reviews has always been what are people playing, aka popular games. People demand AOTS get added to the suite/only bring the game up simply because it has its lips wrapped the tightest around AMD's cock. Its not a popular title and only really gets talked about in the AMD fanboi circle.
 

{NG}Fidel

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I mean they did a decent job of explaining that it competes with 970/980 well enough by what they said. I think it was just icing on the cake for him to show that 400 dollars can top a 700 dollar gpu experience. If and when your game supports Mgpu that is.
 

staknhalo

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You have your lips around NVidia's cock, so your opinion is less than worthless here.

I know you're just jelly their not wrapped around yours, Mr. Butthurt McButthurt (y) How's that whole 'AMD's on the rebound, look at the stock' thing working out for you? :ROFLMAO:
 

{NG}Fidel

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I know you're just jelly their not wrapped around yours, Mr. Butthurt McButthurt (y) How's that whole 'AMD's on the rebound, look at the stock' thing working out for you? :ROFLMAO:
The moment ppl laugh about AMD failing is when I know they probably are a little biased. No neutral party would want either AMD or Nvidia to fail. Its a depressing thought to be honest.
 

cageymaru

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The [H] gaming suite for reviews has always been what are people playing, aka popular games. People demand AOTS get added to the suite/only bring the game up simply because it has its lips wrapped the tightest around AMD's cock. Its not a popular title and only really gets talked about in the AMD fanboi circle.

Oh I don't think that people want this added to the testing suite. When you start playing the actual game it isn't that demanding as it runs really smooth.
 

Zion Halcyon

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The moment ppl laugh about AMD failing is when I know they probably are a little biased. No neutral party would want either AMD or Nvidia to fail. Its a depressing thought to be honest.


Agreed. I want competition. I don't want one to dominate the other.
 

staknhalo

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The moment ppl laugh about AMD failing is when I know they probably are a little biased. No neutral party would want either AMD or Nvidia to fail. Its a depressing thought to be honest.

Aside from the lackluster products they put out (thus not actually competing), I have no problem with AMD. I enjoy bathing in their fanbois' tears though. Tastes oh so salty. Love it.
 

{NG}Fidel

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Aside from the lackluster products they put out, I have no problem with AMD. I enjoy bathing in their fanbois' tears though.
I guess you are actually ok being labeled a fanboy? I mean bravo my sir. But nothing to cry about with this level of performance at 199$. I mean I guess you can come in here and try to make it seem bad? Awfully pointless though.
 

staknhalo

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I guess you are actually ok being labeled a fanboy? I mean bravo my sir. But nothing to cry about with this level of performance at 199$. I mean I guess you can come in here and try to make it seem bad? Awfully pointless though.

Doesn't bother me what randos on the internet think about me/try to label me, however false or not it may be. Don't lose a lick of sleep over it. Like I said - I just like pointing out to people saying how hot that chick is named 480 over there, that the chick is really just a pig in lipstick.
 

JustReason

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Please refrain from personal attacks and being vulgar. It was going well here till then. It's ok to have a dissenting opinion but if it requires attacking others or alluding to a community in a less than respectful way then keep your opinion to yourself.
 

exlink

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Michael-Jackson-Eating-Popcorn.gif


Glad I got the unsalted popcorn because the amount of salt coming from both camps is unreal since these cards debuted.
 

{NG}Fidel

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Doesn't bother me what randos on the internet think about me/try to label me, however false or not it may be. Don't lose a lick of sleep over it. Like I said - I just like pointing out to people saying how hot that chick is named 480 over there, that the chick is really just a pig in lipstick.
Its not really a label man. You like straight up admitted it...
 

staknhalo

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Its not really a label man. You like straight up admitted it...

Believe what you want to believe, especially if you need to to help continue spewing how the 480 is a good card and a winning move for AMD. Like I said, doesn't bother me. It's still easy enough to shoot down all these fanboi claims and dreams about it being a good card and a winning move.
 

{NG}Fidel

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I mean if it didnt bother you so much then why are you here haha.
Yeah at 199 its a good card, thats pretty much fact at this point. Unless you can name the card you would rather get for 199?
 

Dullard

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Come to think of it, they should run four of these at once. If two beats a 1080, and 2-way is all that nVidia officially supports, then four 480s could well beat the most powerful 2-way stock system nVidia could muster. Maybe not practical, but it'd make a great AMD/AotS slide to post on Reddit!
 

staknhalo

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I mean if it didnt bother you so much then why are you here haha.
Yeah at 199 its a good card, thats pretty much fact at this point. Unless you can name the card you would rather get for 199?

Told you, I like shooting down fanboi bullshit. It's like skeet shooting. Only easier.

I'd rather hold off and buy the GTX 1060 for that price when its out; seeing as $199 has always been the x60 part's price range, and we know the part is coming from the manufacturing/GP106 chip leaks.

Will most likely deliver the same performance at lower power than the 480 based on how Nvidia parts compare to AMD parts.
 

{NG}Fidel

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Told you, I like shooting down bullshit. It's like skeet shooting.

I'd rather hold off and buy the GTX 1060 for that price when its out; seeing as $199 has always been the x60 parts price range, and we know the part if coming from manufacturing/chip leaks.
What are the specs?
 
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