CHP: Drunk Driver Slept While Tesla Appeared to Drive Hwy 101 on Autopilot

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Dec 2, 2018.

  1. VoloxitySF

    VoloxitySF Gawd

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    There's still plenty of folks using a horse and carriage in central Pennsylvania stretching down Southeast. I met a young "Amish" dude who a few car batteries, head unit, few speakers, 2 10" subwoofers and a wine cooler in his. Concealed of course. Great guy.
     
  2. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    Until his horse shits right in front of your mailbox...
     
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  3. Very, VERY common misconception. Autopilot is not autonomous. Autopilot is for holding a heading, Tesla's autopilot is actually more advanced and capable than most aircraft autopilot systems, as they only hold a heading and speed, they also do not have to deal with even a fraction of the things a car has to and flight paths are highly controlled. People like to harp on the name every......single......time Tesla is brought up without ever understanding what real autopilot is.
     
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  4. Darunion

    Darunion 2[H]4U

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    Yup see them a lot in northern ohio as well. I think a lot of people forget that densly packed cities are only a small fraction of the square area of the US.
     
  5. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    Be careful with making sweeping statements about aircraft autopilots. A lot of the airlines have some very modern systems that would put a tesla to shame ;). Also unless it has engine control it doesnt hold speed. it holds heading and altitude and speed is a function of pitch resulting from trying to hold the altitude.

    Also most of them can fly some pretty complex courses ;).
     
  6. I didn't, I said most, not all. And just like cars, aircraft systems have levels of autonomous operation. Where full autonomous is still a pipe dream, in both aircraft and cars, but people have this movie like idea of autopilot being able to do everything without human input. Tesla's system is also able to do very complex courses, that deals with far more situations an aircraft does. Autopilot, in aircraft and automobiles does not mean autonomous, would you agree?
     
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  7. 4884

    4884 Limp Gawd

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    It's not poorly named. It's intentionally named like that because Tesla owners apparently like these buzzwords and all the bells and whistles, think they're "cool".
     
  8. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    I took most as a sweeping generalization. But fair enough if that was not the intent.

    I agree of course that autopilot is not autonomous. Anyone who thinks it does mean that is being foolish.
     
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  9. Westwood Arrakis

    Westwood Arrakis [H]ard|Gawd

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    As someone that rides a motorcycle eight months out of the year, I'm not sure how I feel about this.
     
  10. Laowai

    Laowai Gawd

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    This is the second time I'm posting this reply so...perhaps it wasn't as obvious as I had intended.
     
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  11. I understand that. But I am talking about on most common use, the term has been used for some time, and some of the autopilot systems are pretty basic. They have come a long way in the past few years and I think aircraft systems have actually benefited from the hard push in automotive systems. But that was the point I was trying to make, that there are many levels of autopilot, yet they are still considered such, which I think you agree with, unless I misunderstood.

    My main problem with comments people make are blaming Tesla for how they named the system, not the drunk sleeping driver....I understand the Tesla hate...To a point, I don't like the worship people give Musk and act like they were the first EV etc etc, BUT I rather fault be on the driver who made poor choices, as I think responsibility doesn't seem to matter today as long as there is something, ANYTHING else to blame it on, even if it's just a name.
     
  12. 4884

    4884 Limp Gawd

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    I don't know a lot about aviation. But I've seen someone said a modern commercial plane can take off, fly and land on it's own. Is it true?
    I don't believe that. I will not board a plane without an experienced pilot.
    Afaik, the "autopilot" on such an aircraft just maintain the plane on the course, and only do that after the pilot brought the plane up to the safe, high altitude. So it's more like cruise control for planes.
    The critical moments (take off, approach, landing) are still performed by real pilots. Am I being uninformed?
     
  13. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    Capable and actually being used are two different things. A lot of modern aircraft systems are capable of take off and landing without the pilot but its rarely used to do that. For one not only does the plane have to be equipped but so does the airport. Also the pilots need to be trained. CATIIIb and C approaches are where this is most likely to be used. IIIB lets the pilot make the decision at 50ft, IIIC lets the pilot land w/out ever seeing the runway. (ILS approaches, GPS RNAV are different).

    The autopilot in commercial aircraft actually flies the approach also. Heck I was teaching a student in a Cessna 172 last week and that plane was flying the approach itself ;). The autopilot is MUCH more capable and complicated than most people think. It however, is NOT, autonomous.

    That being said I think you would be surprised at just how much the autopilot is doing to relieve the manual burden on the pilot thus freeing them up to focus on more important things like not hitting each other. A friend of mine who recently started flying for United told me their company policy was the autopilot has to be engaged at 50ft and disengaged at 50ft unless circumstances require the pilot to hand fly the aircraft. For example when ATC gives you a deviation sometimes its faster to hand fly it than to program it in. Or when they tell you to turn to avoid traffic...etc etc.

    BTW landing isnt all that critical. Its the take off were the real danger lies. You have a lot of options on landing if something goes wrong. Not so much on takeoff.

    Does that help clear up any confusion?
     
  14. Ultima99

    Ultima99 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Our society will have many problems to deal with as tech continues to change what is possible.
     
  15. Rebel44

    Rebel44 2[H]4U

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    Only the police car that was behind him was driving in S pattern - and that was to make sure that other traffic won't complicate stopping his car.
     
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  16. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    If everyone misunderstands the name then it is a bad name.
     
  17. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    Thats faulty logic. Its better to educate people on the correct term than to let them make false assumptions and change the name to accommodate stupidity.
     
  18. Rebel44

    Rebel44 2[H]4U

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    FYI:

    1. After the recent update, Tesla cars are able to exit highway (at which point it will stop at the end of offramp and beep at the driver)

    2. If he used cars navigation it would exit the highway either near its destination and stop at the end of the offramp or it would do the same near pre-programmed locations of Supercharger.

    3. If he stopped applying force to a steering wheel car would beep at him and if he ignored it for a certain amount of time, car would turn on hazard lights, slowly come to a stop and call Tesla (if the driver was still unresponsive, Tesla would notify emergency services).

    Obviously Autopilot is not good enough to drive consistently and safely without supervision, but it is a lot better than the alternative, which would be a car crash soon after the driver fell asleep.
     
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  19. 4884

    4884 Limp Gawd

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    Thanks:) Your information is very helpful.
    I didn't know landing is easy (or just easier?) I do understand pilots can loop back and try again if the condition is bad though.
    I watched videos of huge commercial planes land in strong wind. Like this one
    And I thought that was some sick maneuver.
    I wonder how the modern autopilot fair with bad weather:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  20. Rebel44

    Rebel44 2[H]4U

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    Features are being added gradually (after all their cars are not self-driving yet) - Elon said that recognizing emergency vehicles (and appropriately reacting to them) will happen in a few months.
     
  21. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    Depends. With crosswinds? Not so well. With low clouds? They could care less.

    Its not that landing is "easier" its just that if something goes wrong you have a lot more options to deal with it. For example if your engines all die...so what you just glide into the airport. What you were going to do anyway. If all your engines die on take off..your low, slow, and "dirty" which means you are in a world of hurt. You might end up in the trees...or in the Hudson.

    If I am landing and my gear wont come down I can abort the landing and circle to troubleshoot.

    FWIW landing is counter intuitive for most people and is one of the harder things to learn. Take offs are easy to learn.
     
  22. Dr. Righteous

    Dr. Righteous 2[H]4U

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    Hmm, I've not consider it before but self driving cars are empowering for drunks.
    Can they mount a defense saying "I wasn't driving; the car was. I was just a passenger".
    This will come down to the argument is there really such thing as a self driving car or not.
     
  23. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    IMO no, you are still operating the vehicle. You pushed the button you told it what to do.
     
  24. Dr. Righteous

    Dr. Righteous 2[H]4U

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    Yeah, but what that button does is relinquish control of the to the car. Are you really the driver then? Since the car plots your course, follows the rules of the road, makes legal turns, etc, who is in control? I think the courts are eventually have to say "there is no such thing as a driverless car"
     
  25. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    I agree the courts have to say that. I am just saying that even still just pushing a button that tells it to do something should be considered operation. Unless all you do is get in and it goes home w/out any input....then maybe its autonomous enough to be driver less?
     
  26. haste.

    haste. [H]ard|Gawd

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    I was actually wondering all of that because I had read that Airbus was controlling altitude, heading, speed, etc. On descent many many years ago, basically when they started fly by wire. Yet always assumed that the pilot was responsible for touchdown. I get a bit anxious on takeoff and landing, even with flying quite often, and have told my wife that take off is more dangerous than landing - she said I'm crazy so more ammunition for that argument!
     
  27. Seventyfive

    Seventyfive [H]ard|Gawd

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    Not according to my wife, backseat driver is her favorite job.
     
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  28. Crazy Chuckster

    Crazy Chuckster 2[H]4U

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    So my question is can he beat the DWI rap because the car was "technically" driving? :D
     
  29. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Perhaps it was only obvious to you. I've seen far worse utterances than that.
     
  30. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    At least in the UK. it's enough to stand near a car with the keys on you and they can do you in. It's called being in charge of a motor vehicle while under the influence.
     
  31. travisty

    travisty Gawd

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    It's the police not understanding how autopilot works. All a police officer had to do initially was drive in front of the car then brake to a stop. No matter what lane the tesla is in it will come to a complete stop in that case and stay stopped.
     
  32. Wierdo

    Wierdo [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm pretty sure you can't have sex or operate drunk on a plane with auto-pilot on either, probably a good way to lose your license.

    Few theories I can think of:
    - Maybe he was asleep with his hands on the wheel in some fashion, delaying the response, if so then he's lucky he didn't cause a crash by disabling it.
    - Maybe he bought one of those illegal defeat devices, they sell those online sadly.

    Basically some drunk idiot does something stupid, only difference is he got off lucky with auto-pilot steering the car to safety instead of hitting a tree.

    But this is (currently) a clear abuse of the marketed feature, and even if one day it becomes technically possible the legislation isn't in place to allow it, that takes time. Good on the cops for catching him before he hurt himself or others.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
  33. BoiseTech

    BoiseTech Limp Gawd

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    I know this isn't what Autopilot was built for... but isn't this a much more desired outcome than him crashing, and killing himself and possibly others?
     
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  34. Wierdo

    Wierdo [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah that's the silver lining, but if something did happen then it would be unfair negative PR spin, the media would go nuts with it for clicks regardless.

    Then we'd be talking about the mass hysteria and "that's why we can't have nice things" and all that jazz.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
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  35. PaulP

    PaulP Gawd

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    That's Elon-speak for 20 years. :D
     
  36. tempertantrum

    tempertantrum Limp Gawd

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    You're bi-winning, one might even say.
     
  37. tempertantrum

    tempertantrum Limp Gawd

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    Nah, they'll just charge a service fee/license for anyone using it.
     
  38. tempertantrum

    tempertantrum Limp Gawd

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    Don't worry, once you get hit once because the system can't see you or doesn't know what to do about you, you won't think about it at all.
     
  39. kju1

    kju1 2[H]4U

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    Legally you cant even get on the plane if you are drunk ( as a passenger). For pilots we cant consume alcohol for 8 hours prior to flying. Also sex on planes happens...but not while you are a required crew member ;).

    Yeah I could see either but neither of those is Tesla's fault. What bothered me was the way the article was worded it was like you could fall asleep behind the wheel and the car would just drive along. Which is absolutely not the case as we both know. Outside of course from attempting to disable it with hands or some other device of course.
     
  40. Westwood Arrakis

    Westwood Arrakis [H]ard|Gawd

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    Big reason why I ride places like this,

    IMG_8658.jpg
     
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