Chiphell: AMD 3xx perf. leak

tybert7 said:
Seems like a small improvement to me, I can't get that excited about these incremental improvements. They need a much larger gain, they should not be targeting what nvidia currently has on the market, they need to target what nvidia will drop later on. The 980 is clearly not nvidias top end part, it's just a precursor to the TI part coming right after amd drops their next card. THAT is the card they need to show up, and it does not look like this does. And even if the Ti only matches performance, they need to do MORE than that to sway the nvidia faithful to switch away, and even then it will be a tough sell.
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so 25% performance improvement and 33% decrease in power usage for you is incremental? I Guess it could be considered incremental, assuming it's a 20nm chip.
 
The days of 50-100% improvements year over year are over. If you want to see that stay away from the GPU side of things for 2-3 years after you bought your video card and looking to upgrade. Unless you're upgrading outside your model line (ex. 660 > 770) we wont have that again. I'm hesitant to say never because we don't know what going beyond silicon will do for computing, but everyone is playing it safe.

I think semiconductor manufacturers are all realizing this otherwise they wouldn't be holding back a single generation for 2 years (new architecture > minor minor refresh).
 
Liger88 said:
The days of 50-100% improvements year over year are over. If you want to see that stay away from the GPU side of things for 2-3 years after you bought your video card and looking to upgrade. Unless you're upgrading outside your model line (ex. 660 > 770) we wont have that again. I'm hesitant to say never because we don't know what going beyond silicon will do for computing, but everyone is playing it safe.

I think semiconductor manufacturers are all realizing this otherwise they wouldn't be holding back a single generation for 2 years (new architecture > minor minor refresh).
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better than 5% Intel stuff
 
Liger88 said:
The days of 50-100% improvements year over year are over. If you want to see that stay away from the GPU side of things for 2-3 years after you bought your video card and looking to upgrade. Unless you're upgrading outside your model line (ex. 660 > 770) we wont have that again. I'm hesitant to say never because we don't know what going beyond silicon will do for computing, but everyone is playing it safe.

I think semiconductor manufacturers are all realizing this otherwise they wouldn't be holding back a single generation for 2 years (new architecture > minor minor refresh).
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28nm khole.
 
Flopper said:
better than 5% Intel stuff
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Indeed. They aren't even trying anymore given how immediately after Bulldozer dropped they nixed all future roadmaps for 6-8 core mainstream parts and that was right after Sandy dropped.

At least GPU's still can take small gains and turn them into large ones due to the inherent parallel workload.
 
tybert7 said:
Seems like a small improvement to me, I can't get that excited about these incremental improvements. They need a much larger gain, they should not be targeting what nvidia currently has on the market, they need to target what nvidia will drop later on. The 980 is clearly not nvidias top end part, it's just a precursor to the TI part coming right after amd drops their next card. THAT is the card they need to show up, and it does not look like this does. And even if the Ti only matches performance, they need to do MORE than that to sway the nvidia faithful to switch away, and even then it will be a tough sell.
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The 980 is only 6% faster than the 780ti in the benchmark used in this graph. There was a lot of excitement for the 980. In this leak, the 390x is more then 30% faster than the 290x. I'll take a 30% increase in performance any day.
 
trick0502 said:
The 980 is only 6% faster than the 780ti in the benchmark used in this graph. There was a lot of excitement for the 980. In this leak, the 390x is more then 30% faster than the 290x. I'll take a 30% increase in performance any day.
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No need to wait for this mythical AMD card when you can get a fast card now.

lE0dNUK.jpg
 
Geforcepat said:
4k is what crossfire is for.
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Honestly with a lot of newer games even crossfire struggles with 4K unless you go up to 3 cards. I'd really like to see 4K doable on single card, especially with even higher resolution displays starting to emerge (Dell's 5K panel).

trick0502 said:
Where and how do you come up with this? Gm200 30% faster than this 390x leak?

Things to notice.

This is an engineering sample
Most likely running at reduced clock speed
Most likely running on early beta drivers

If it is already 15% faster than a 980, expect another 5-15% when the clocks increase and better drivers are out.
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GM200 will likely end up 40-45% faster than the 980 so that's how I arrived at my 30% figure. The original Titan had a similar lead over 680. If this card is running at reduced clocks, then good... bottom line I just hope it's competitive against Nvidia's big chip so we get more reasonable prices. New drivers will of course improve performance but the same is true for Maxwell, it's still a new architecture and is far from being fully tapped out yet.
 
Isn't this the same leaked chart WCCF released? I've heard they are quite sketchy with their leaked materials.
 
So, best case scenario is that this is the R9-380x, is priced at $300, outperforms the GTX970 and GTX980, a scenario very similar to the Radeon 4870 vs the GTX260 and GTX280.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
so 25% performance improvement and 33% decrease in power usage for you is incremental? I Guess it could be considered incremental, assuming it's a 20nm chip.
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The power drop will stop the extra sniping from the PRIME types, but the performance targets need to take out nvidia, not their own current flagship.


The question is not how it fares against a 980, it's how it fares against a 980 Ti.

How much of a boost was the 780 Ti over a standard 780? They need to target something larger than that. But perhaps they can't with current tech/process. Then the status quo remains the same. 2/3 of the discreet gpus remain nvidia, with the bottom third left to AMD.


nvidia is the apple/bmw if the discreet gpu world, to make headway, you have to be much better on the merits than what they have coming down the pike, because the brand loyalty/momentum will carry the day for them.
 
If these are true and the rumored HBM are true, it's a bit disappointing they never run this at 4k. That is something that really interests me.
 
it must be the 380X, based on the power consumption. remember the hybrid cooling solution shown weeks ago? no need to use a liquid colling for a gpu that uses so little energy, i think this is just the 380x, 390x will use liquid cooling and use more energy than this.
 
pliskin679 said:
I lol'd at this post
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Wasn't entirely serious :p

I bought the GTX 970s before this leak so I don't have much regrets, I am happy with the performance on them anyhow.

But still, I doubt Taiwan will sway in any significant degree towards AMD unless this new series is fairly priced. Our retail stores have not reflected the recent price reductions from AMD due to maxwell cards, so AMD doesn't even stand a chance here (295x is still selling, or at least trying to be sold, for over $1600).

There are times where I wished I was in US market lol.

I'd much prefer to see AMD striking back at a big degree though, I'd hate to see what would happen to GPU market if AMD goes away...
 
If that leak is indeed the 380X, that is impressive if true.

If it's the 390X, that's rather disapppointing if it's only 15% faster than the GTX 980, I would expect at least 40% or something like that. But nevertheless, I'm very curious to see what AMD has to offer for their next generation.
 
DASHlT said:
This has to be midrange, No way AMD and Asetek have an agreement to cool a 200w part.

Hopefully this means they left room for a nice 390x.

Just something to think about, If this is using the new HBM tech, I know it can save at least 30-50w on overall power.
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my guess is this is the 380x/380, i believe the "rumor" is that only the 390(x) series will have HBM. which given how early this leak is makes sense that it's the 380x with the normal GDDR5 and makes more sense with the semi-weak performance gain seen in the benchmarks.
 
x3sphere said:
Honestly with a lot of newer games even crossfire struggles with 4K unless you go up to 3 cards. I'd really like to see 4K doable on single card, especially with even higher resolution displays starting to emerge (Dell's 5K panel).



GM200 will likely end up 40-45% faster than the 980 so that's how I arrived at my 30% figure. The original Titan had a similar lead over 680. If this card is running at reduced clocks, then good... bottom line I just hope it's competitive against Nvidia's big chip so we get more reasonable prices. New drivers will of course improve performance but the same is true for Maxwell, it's still a new architecture and is far from being fully tapped out yet.
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their is no way nvidia is going to be able to make a gpu 40-45% faster than the 980 on the 28nm. If the gm100/110/200 comes out on 28nm it will end up 15-20% faster than the 980.
 
trick0502 said:
their is no way nvidia is going to be able to make a gpu 40-45% faster than the 980 on the 28nm. If the gm100/110/200 comes out on 28nm it will end up 15-20% faster than the 980.
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It would have to be a minimum of 30% faster for it to make any sense.

There are far too many variables to call it one way or another.
If GM200/210 was on 28nm, they would be pushing close to the reticle limit, +600mm2.
With a die that size one would typically expect clocks to be lowered a decent amount compared to GM204. If they are able to keep clocks in the same neighborhood as GM204, that would go a long way.
It would also depend on if they go compute lite or not though I doubt they would go that route.

I agree that I don't think it is likely we see GM200/210 on 28nm, I personally think they will wait for 16FinFet or 16FinFet+ and we see a 400-500mm2 beast in 2H '15.
 
tybert7 said:
Seems like a small improvement to me, I can't get that excited about these incremental improvements. They need a much larger gain, they should not be targeting what nvidia currently has on the market, they need to target what nvidia will drop later on. The 980 is clearly not nvidias top end part, it's just a precursor to the TI part coming right after amd drops their next card. THAT is the card they need to show up, and it does not look like this does. And even if the Ti only matches performance, they need to do MORE than that to sway the nvidia faithful to switch away, and even then it will be a tough sell.
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It's hilarious that people would have this attitude but laud Nvidia's not any faster than prior gen at all parts the 980 and 970...(which pretty much everybody did)...

If this is incremental, what was 980/970? A backwards step?

You can talk about a mythical Nvidia part all day long, why not also say yeah but the AMD 390X obviously coming soon after the 380X will easily trump the Nvidia Ti. I mean as long as we're just making things up.

Also if Nvidia introduces a Ti then why is the 980 $550? Aka ultra high end pricing? A lot of people are gonna be ripped off if that's the case.

For that matter the 380X itself is still mythical...

Also, you're forgetting one simple matter, all these cards are 28nm. They are limited in what they can increase. You probably cant expect huge performance increases, and you wont get any from Nvidia either. When they move to 20nm will be the bigger jump.

But I knew when the 980 wasn't much faster than a 290X that Nvidia was in trouble and would certainly lose the performance crown. That is now appearing to come to pass. I'm not sure what Nvidia was thinking. Other than "power consumption", and plans to money hat major games to artificially perform better on their hardware, as they have been doing, I guess.

also these 380x benches look super early, and if they are real, performance will probably increase a good deal with final clocks and drivers.

Also, the power consumption looks excellent there. Well faster than 980 with only a little more power usage. A tradeoff all enthusiasts will gladly make.

suck for all the recent 980/970 buyers, that your cards will soon be yesterdays news and 2nd banana, but that's video cards...
 
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ChronoDetector said:
If that leak is indeed the 380X, that is impressive if true.

If it's the 390X, that's rather disapppointing if it's only 15% faster than the GTX 980, I would expect at least 40% or something like that. But nevertheless, I'm very curious to see what AMD has to offer for their next generation.
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If AMD does 40% better performance on the same process node then Nvidia has really lost it, unless they have something besides a overclocked 980 coming very soon.

I'm not sure why you're using some weird double standard.
 
Flopper said:
I wait for single cards to run such.
while my single 290 runs dragon age inq for example its not for me to do two cards.
I dont like the issues dual cards has either brand.
I rather adjust a setting or two than to have issues with games due to scaling or such.

soon..
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Keep waiting. Two cards are still needed for 1600p for some games.

On another note.
AMD is better at 4K and dual card solutions at a cheaper price. That's enough for me to wait.
 
Yes I quietly weep to myself while I play my games at top settings today right here right now, so sad that tomorrow's tech will be faster. :rolleyes:
 
melk said:
Yes I quietly weep to myself while I play my games at top settings today right here right now, so sad that tomorrow's tech will be faster. :rolleyes:
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I wouldn't wait if I played games at 1080p either.
4K is a different animal. No need to waste money on mid-range cards.
 
Things progress and new becomes old. All this drivel about being/feeling sorry for others because they didn't wait is just childish.
 
WorldExclusive said:
Keep waiting. Two cards are still needed for 1600p for some games.

On another note.
AMD is better at 4K and dual card solutions at a cheaper price. That's enough for me to wait.
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in games beside fps I run them good with a single 290 at 5040x1050, with fps games I lower settings until I have the fps I want as those games who cares how they look?
like any cs:go etc..has to be maxed out settings or else your not eligible to play esport.
you think that would work?

the 390x is likely to suit me years to come with current progress of die shrinks.
 
It looks insane , if it was true we would need to buy a seperate heater for winter , we can't depend on amd anymore .
 
It wasn't to long ago that maybe AMD leaked a rumor that the 380X would compete with the 970/980GTX ..

I think we are looking at the 380X leaks which means Nvidia needs to bring a lot more performance before AMD will show us the beast ..
 
Flopper said:
in games beside fps I run them good with a single 290 at 5040x1050, with fps games I lower settings until I have the fps I want as those games who cares how they look?
like any cs:go etc..has to be maxed out settings or else your not eligible to play esport.
you think that would work?

the 390x is likely to suit me years to come with current progress of die shrinks.
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If your willing to turn down settings then a 390X would be perfect.
I ran BF4 high/med @ 110fps+ 1440p on a 290X.

If your playing competitively, then you only need a single (120Hz) monitor, with the fastest GPU you can buy.
G-Sync would also benefit you. Nvidia may still be a better option when they release the high-end Maxwell cards.
 
Seems like typical improvements for die shrink generation change (assuming it's 20nm)
 
meh its AMD some reason i doubt AMD did such a jump. What i read about week or 2 ago about 20nm its not where near ready.
 
ChronoDetector said:
If it's the 390X, that's rather disapppointing if it's only 15% faster than the GTX 980, I would expect at least 40% or something like that. But nevertheless, I'm very curious to see what AMD has to offer for their next generation.
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The 980 just came out. Something 40% faster today would be mighty impressive. I mean, bring it on, but I'd be surprised.
 
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