cheapest possible upgrade for sc2

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fartq

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
135
I've gotten the itch to play starcraft, but unfortunately i don't have a gaming-capable PC and sc2 is frustratingly slow on my 2009 13" mbp.

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

starcraft, maybe some other strategy/tactical and casual games (eg civ5, sam & max, etc)

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

as close to 150$ as possible. (tax&ship incl)

3) Where do you live?

socal

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. The word "Everything" is not a valid answer. Please list out all the parts you'll need.

gpu definitely, some subset of mobo/cpu presumably

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

my current machine is:

lian li a05, fortron zen 400w psu, e7200, intel dp43tf, 2x2gb ddr2, thermalright hr-01, radeon 2600xt + accelero s1r2

the priority of this build, 3 years ago, was to be 100% reliable and completely silent. i would prefer a new build be quiet, but some noise is OK. reliability is still important but not paramount.

6) Will you be overclocking?

sure, whatever it takes to hit budget

7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?

1600x1200 20" 4:3 (hp lp2065)

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

sooner would be nice, but i could wait a couple months if it's impossible or inadvisable to try to hit budget now.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? USB 3.0? SATA 6Gb/s? eSATA? Onboard video? etc.

none

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? If yes, what OS? Is it 32bit or 64bit?

i have win7 licenses out the wazoo; no worries there.


note additionally that the machine listed above is not local to me right now, but is available for me to use/upgrade. i've been told that it's also too slow to play sc2
note2 i have frys nearby, and will probably pass by a microcenter in the next couple of months (driving from sd to la)
 
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Sorry but the Q9550 is a terrible idea. Starcraft 2 does not need more than a dual core CPU to be maxed out. I've been running my E8400 at the stock 3.0 GHz lately with SC2 maxed at 1920x1200 on my HD4890 with no issues at all.

What you need is a more powerful GPU but I suspect that 2900XT would still be adequate for low settings so I'm not sure what problems you might have. Then again it's a pretty old card, personally I would just look for a used 5770 or 4890 in the $60-70 price range.
 
i went hunting for some evidence that sc2 might scale with more cores on 45nm era c2ds. this seems to crush that notion: http://forums.pureoverclock.com/showthread.php?t=7927

but would love to see evidence to the contrary.

in the meantime, looking at prices, it seems like two major options are:

1) used e8400 + 5570

or

2) used 775 board to OC e7200 + 5770

should one be preferred over the other? is there any reason to believe that this is a waste of time? i get the feeling that 150 is a tiny budget for these things, but i really game pretty casually, so i'd like to cap it somewhere reasonable..

ps, i primarily play online with my friends, group games (2v2, 3v3, 4v4), and customs
 
He has a 2600xt, which is worse than the Caicos parts being shipped as low end chips on laptops....

Get a newer GPU :) OC the CPU to the wall.

EDIT: missed the post above me :(

EDIT2: HD5770 will do perfectly for Ultra/Extreme (since Extreme is singleplayer only, lol) settings at your res :) I used to have a HD5770 and a 1600x900 monitor before upgrading myself :)
 
i chose the 2600xt because of mac driver compatibility (was originally built to hackintosh it up). i knew it was crap then too, but one never thinks these things will bite one in the ass later on...

unfortunately, the intel dp43tf i have in there won't OC at all. zero changes allowed to performance parameters. 100% locked down, etc.

hence, board suggestions? even better, is there any reasonable board i could buy new without spending an arm and a leg?
 
fartq said:
in the meantime, looking at prices, it seems like two major options are:

1) used e8400 + 5570

or

2) used 775 board to OC e7200 + 5770

should one be preferred over the other? is there any reason to believe that this is a waste of time? i get the feeling that 150 is a tiny budget for these things, but i really game pretty casually, so i'd like to cap it somewhere reasonable..
Click to expand...
Welll option 1 is a really bad idea due to the shitty video card. Option 2 is better but still not that good since it still requires you to try find a reasonably priced used socket 775 mobo.
fartq said:
hence, board suggestions? even better, is there any reasonable board i could buy new without spending an arm and a leg?
Click to expand...
No you're better off buying a used mobo for around $50 to $60 shipped. Any more and you're getting ripped off. Find a Gigabyte, Asus, or MSI P43 or P45 chipset motherboard that has mosfet cooling and is compatible with DDR2 RAM.
 
Well it's out of stock and considering the age probably won't be back in stock anytime soon. In addition, it won't be too good for overclocking due to the relative lack of cooling on that motherboard for overclocking.
 
good point Danny_Bui I forgot to check that. Upon further review that combo is available with a better G41 board here, which appears to be decent for overclocking.

Combo: GIGABYTE GA-G41M-ES2L LGA 775 Intel G41 + GIGABYTE GV-R577SO-1GD Radeon HD 5770 1GB $181.98 - $20 mir
Yes I I know its over his budget but but not by much and totally worth it. His only other option is to buy an inexpensive board like this one and grab one of these before they sellout,

XFX HD-485X-ZNFC Radeon HD 4850 1GB $89.98 - $30 mir + fs still an ok card in general, but I was unable to find any sc2 benchmarks for it. But it would definitely show its age at the resolution you are talking about.
 
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I wouldn't upgrade the board or cpu unless your getting kilter deals on used stuff. I would just take the total budget towards a better gpu. Its a waste of money to put much into a775
Posted via Mobile Device
 
Just a word of warning: the GIGABYTE GA-G41M-ES2L is not a good board to overclock. The chipset is highly limiting. Otherwise it's a fine board that I've been using for a long time.

I would not change the board. Look around for a cheap CPU upgrade and (more importantly) a 5770/GTX460/whatevercomescheap as recommended before. I play SC2 on the system in my signature and it runs perfectly fine on 1920x1200. The CPU/RAM/Board isn't your problem. It's the GPU and maybe the PSU at one point.
 
unfortunately, i'm relatively sure that i'll be cpu limited with the e7200 at stock. my mbp is pretty similar processor-wise, and definitely bottlenecks in the late game. e8400s are unfortunately going for way too much on FS/FT

it sounds like the executive summary is: a) killer used deal on a mobo, b) up budget or c) don't bother.

thanks folks
 
fartq said:
it sounds like the executive summary is: a) killer used deal on a mobo, b) up budget or c) don't bother.
Click to expand...

Sounds about right in regards to the CPU.

The other thing that everyone else agrees on is getting the HD 5770. I say buy it and then try it with that PC. See if you actually see a major bottleneck,
 
are you recommending the 5770 over the gts 450 even though it doesn't perform as well?
 
hossdaddy said:
are you recommending the 5770 over the gts 450 even though it doesn't perform as well?
Click to expand...

I didn't even see your post. Hmm, it does appear that SC2 does indeed perform better with the GTS 450.
 
fartq said:
unfortunately, i'm relatively sure that i'll be cpu limited with the e7200 at stock. my mbp is pretty similar processor-wise, and definitely bottlenecks in the late game. e8400s are unfortunately going for way too much on FS/FT

it sounds like the executive summary is: a) killer used deal on a mobo, b) up budget or c) don't bother.

thanks folks
Click to expand...

I have a 2009 MBP as well. The video card is really holding you back in both systems. It is possible to overclock the MBP btw (assuming you have Bootcamp.) Go here: http://www.hardmac.com/news/2009/01/26/nvidia-system-tools-to-overclock-unibody-macbook-on-windows for some quick info. I haven't overclocked my CPU too much, but I routinely pop my graphics card above 500 MHz which does help when playing Bad Company 2.

As for your desktop, I offer two solutions: upgrade the GPU, or get a CPU, a motherboard, RAM, and a GPU.

Your overall gaming performance will go up quite a bit by getting away from that 2600xt. The GTS 450 is a good choice. If you want a little more power consider the XFX 6850 listed below.

Upgrading the core components of the system will provide a much better experience. Here is an example build below. I explain some of my choices below that.

Assuming you can strech your budget and get to a Microcenter by Sunday:
$100 - Intel Core i3-2100 + MSI H61M-E33
$39 - Rendition by Crucial 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
$155 (after $20 MIR) - XFX HD-685X-ZNFC Radeon HD 6850 1GB 256-bit

Total: $294 before taxes, shipping, and driving to a Microcenter.

I chose the 6850 based on cost, power requirements, and this review.

I'm skeptical that your power supply will be able to handle the video card options below. Yours has two 12V rails, one 14A, and one 13A, which would be cutting it close. These reviews (GTX460 and 6850/6870) indicate it would be very close on the 14A rail for a GTX460 and 6870. A Radeon 6850 should allow you to keep your current PSU assuming that capacitor aging hasn't hit the performance too much.

I made no considerations for noise. I was trying to keep this as cheap as possible while still providing very good SC2 performance. Set a reasonable budget and I can try to fit something later.

The Core i3-2100 performs exceptionally well in gaming, including Starcraft 2. See this review. (AMD needs to get Bulldozer out NOW and pray it competes.)

Lastly, this build assumes that your case, dvd burner, and hard drive will be taken from the old computer. If your dvd drive is IDE you'll need to budget about another $20 for a SATA one. For a SATA hard drive, you should be able to get 500GB for $40, and 1 TB for about $55 (I haven't included options for this as I need to get to bed.) Or you could get an ATA PCI card for under $20 if you've got a fetish for ribbon cables.

Options/Alternatives:
$125 - Intel Core i3-2100 Sandy Bridge 3.1GHz 2 x 256KB L2 Cache 3MB L3 Cache LGA 1155 65W
$55 (after $15 MIR) - ECS H61H2-M3(1.0) LGA 1155 Intel H61 Micro ATX
$40 (after $10 MIR) - CORSAIR Builder Series CX500 (CMPSU-500CX) 500W
$45 (after $10 MIR) - CORSAIR Builder Series CX600 (CMPSU-600CX) 600W
$180 (after $20 MIR) - HIS H687F1G2M Radeon HD 6870 1GB 256-bit
$170 (after $10 MIR) - EVGA 01G-P3-1380-KR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) SSC+ 1GB
$40 - G.SKILL Value Series 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
$41 - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
$40 - G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
$33 (after $10 MIR) - PNY Optima 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333

Update: Take 15% off the power supplies I listed above as Newegg is having a 48 hour sale on them. Use this code: EMCYTZT367. 15% off is before MIR.
 
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I just thought of another option.

Get the Core i3-2100 Microcenter deal and RAM listed above, and then get a GTS 450 with it.

$90 (after $30 MIR) - Galaxy 50SGH8HX3QMZ GeForce GTS 450 (Fermi) GC Version 1GB 128-bit

You'll be at $229 with that setup, before taxes and shipping.

In fact, you can get everything at Microcenter for just a bit more (no shipping, no waiting... besides the drive up to LA.)

$43 - Crucial 4GB DDR3-1333 (PC-10666)
$98 (after $25 MIR) - 01G-P3-1450-TR GeForce GTS 450 FPB (Free Performance Boost) 1024MB

Total at Microcenter (before taxes and gas) - $241
 
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@tonytnnt -- Don't use the after-rebate price when the OP is trying to go as cheap as possible. (The GTS 450 listed is actually $123 plus tax, pushing the MC total to $266.)

Aside from that -- yeah, it's nitpicking, but it's also very important for penny-pinchers -- good choices all around.
 
tonytnnt said:
I have a 2009 MBP as well. The video card is really holding you back in both systems. It is possible to overclock the MBP btw (assuming you have Bootcamp.) Go here: http://www.hardmac.com/news/2009/01/26/nvidia-system-tools-to-overclock-unibody-macbook-on-windows for some quick info. I haven't overclocked my CPU too much, but I routinely pop my graphics card above 500 MHz which does help when playing Bad Company 2.
Click to expand...

i haven't bothered with a bootcamp install yet; for various reasons it's too much effort for the game to remain nearly unplayable.

Your overall gaming performance will go up quite a bit by getting away from that 2600xt. The GTS 450 is a good choice. If you want a little more power consider the XFX 6850 listed below.
Click to expand...

unfortunately, i don't care all that much about general gaming performance. most other games i would play are basically fast enough on my mbp. my major concern is sc2, which is largely cpu limited (keep in mind that i don't play 1v1). 1600x1200 would be nice, but without a cpu upgrade i don't see a gpu-only upgrade as cost-effective.

Total: $294 before taxes, shipping, and driving to a Microcenter.
Click to expand...
these are nice suggestions, but 300 is far more than i'm willing to budget for starcraft, and this is far over that when you add tax and shipping/gas (i'm 3hrs RTT from MC)

I'm skeptical that your power supply will be able to handle the video card options below. Yours has two 12V rails, one 14A, and one 13A, which would be cutting it close. These reviews (GTX460 and 6850/6870) indicate it would be very close on the 14A rail for a GTX460 and 6870. A Radeon 6850 should allow you to keep your current PSU assuming that capacitor aging hasn't hit the performance too much.
Click to expand...

the fortron unit is actually pretty beefy. from personal experience, i'd trust it over the corsair CWT units up to 150w cpu + 150w gpu. if i were to replace it i would stick to either seasonic or enermax.

The Core i3-2100 performs exceptionally well in gaming, including Starcraft 2. See this review. (AMD needs to get Bulldozer out NOW and pray it competes.)
Click to expand...

i did see that. it seems like an overclocked i3-530 has the same cost and higher nominal performance though.
 
fartq said:
i haven't bothered with a bootcamp install yet; for various reasons it's too much effort for the game to remain nearly unplayable.
Click to expand...

In my experience running Blizzard and Valve games on both Windows and OS:X, they generally run better in Windows. I don't have any quantifiable numbers, however, if you send me a message with what types of games you're playing in Starcraft (or better yet a replay of a game where you experienced issues) I'll try and do a couple runs with FRAPs on Windows 7 on my mid 2009 MBP. If anyone knows of an FPS benchmarking software for OS X let me know and I can do one on 10.6.7 too.
 
i totally believe that it runs better, but for some reason (probably fragmentation, sigh) disk utility won't perform a resize that gives me more than a 25gb bootcamp partition. this isn't big enough to hold both win7 _and_ sc2 so there's all kinds of fiddling i would have to do to install. considering it's probably a 10-20% performance increase at best i haven't bothered :(

thanks for the offer to benchmark and all the suggestions though!

at this point i'm leaning toward hunting for an inexpensive board and then picking up one of the suggested gpus if i can find one. otherwise, i'll probably just live without gaming.
 
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