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Cat 4.12s released

Looks like I'm not the only one who has problems with its interface. Like I said, I'm used to barebones professional apps with menus that make sense and don't hide things. Its my experience thats shaped my opinion of it.

There's a marked difference between opening one control pannel with a logical layout, and useful options like direct control over AA and AF, trilinear(which you can actually get with forceware ;) ) and having a "control center" with a rediculous preview mode thats far too small to notice any image quality differences at all. At least ATI Tool's has a useful 3dmode that you can select to view or not view when using it. Fortunately I use a 6800 on my main workstation. Only thing AI did was make particle effects look 2d on my machine and enable bilinear and disable AA and AF automatically, and repeatedly. There's no ghost in my computer doing it, and I sure didn't set it to that. After changing the settings to your specifications, click AI to high, and then it switches EVERY driver setting to performance even if you forced quality initially.
 
BossNoodleKaboodle said:
The Catalyst AI was precisely what I was talking about. If you set the AI to high, it automatically overrides any custom settings and puts the sliders ALL THE WAY on performance.
Click to expand...
it's not that way by design, CCC is just buggy. I've had to uninstall CCC to make a change stick (using the display property tabs), but I usually reinstall it.

And it also works the other way around from what Brent said: some items in the display properties tabs are not in CCC (wide screen stretch behavior, alternate DVI mode). That's really frustrating.
 
BossNoodleKaboodle said:
Looks like I'm not the only one who has problems with its interface. Like I said, I'm used to barebones professional apps with menus that make sense and don't hide things. Its my experience thats shaped my opinion of it.

There's a marked difference between opening one control pannel with a logical layout, and useful options like direct control over AA and AF, trilinear(which you can actually get with forceware ;) ) and having a "control center" with a rediculous preview mode thats far too small to notice any image quality differences at all. At least ATI Tool's has a useful 3dmode that you can select to view or not view when using it. Fortunately I use a 6800 on my main workstation. Only thing AI did was make particle effects look 2d on my machine and enable bilinear and disable AA and AF automatically, and repeatedly. There's no ghost in my computer doing it, and I sure didn't set it to that. After changing the settings to your specifications, click AI to high, and then it switches EVERY driver setting to performance even if you forced quality initially.
Click to expand...


If you cant find the AA/AF settings in CCC it is your fault and nobody elses. you dont have to change settings in preview mode, its called no preview. Im pretty sure ati said they will be giving the user the option to disable the preview mode in a future driver release.
 
HannibalLecter said:
If you cant find the AA/AF settings in CCC it is your fault and nobody elses. you dont have to change settings in preview mode, its called no preview. Im pretty sure ati said they will be giving the user the option to disable the preview mode in a future driver release.
Click to expand...

The settings are easy to find, but not straightforward because if you enable AI it will override the settings you select. Maybe its not that way by design but thats not my problem either.
 
I don't have that problem. Switching AI doesn't fuck up anything. My CCC works fine. I did, however have a problem with the CCC starting up, but I disabled some TCP/IP setting for my network that fixed it right up. Also fixed that stupid pause when my DSL modem was trying to find my IP. It would cause the system to freeze for like a minute and a half! That, along with my extra 512mb of ram upgrade helped my system and the CCC a lot. I haven't had any problems so far. It does take a bit of ram and a little while to start up at first, but overall it's okay. I'm sure it will get better and better in time. As with all things.
 
Thats absolutely rediculous to use that many resources and require .NET for such a simple thing as switching your VSYNC or AA and AF settings. Its a needlessly complicated and resouce hogging piece of software with bugs that you just mentioned. Changing TCP IP? Never had to do anything like that with forceware. Its much more transparent. If you gotta add half a gig of ram to get CCC to work thats even more sad ;)
 
It ran fine with 512mb. It just runs faster, just like Doom3. You know, there is always the old control panel which doesn't take as much ram and doesn't have as many problems. The CCC is an option buddy. I don't know why you make it out the seem like they have a gun to your head. I don't know what the fuck your problem is with this thing. I hate ATI drivers too but, jesus, your being a little ridiculous about this. A lot of people have 9800's and don't have a problem. Just because you're having problems doesn't mean it's a piece of shit, so fix your fucking computer and stop complaining.
 
Theres no need for you to get your pantyhose all bunjed up;) This is a forum to share our experiences with the products and share them with others. My computers are just fine as are my OS and applications btw. I've NEVER had these kind of problems with a forcware release ever.
 
I know this is a forum, and people always say what they want and share their experiences, but there is no need to repeat yourself 25 times. We got the fact that you hate it because you think it's a piece of shit, but the other 9 million people that aren't having a problem with it think there is something wrong with yours. Their settings and even mine do not reset. It's just an option for you to install it. You may not have any problems with your forceware drivers, but I bet you don't have any problems with the old control panel. You can't compare the new software to the mature older software. Especially when you know the track record with ATI"s drivers in general. Everyone knows they are garbage. I almost sold my x800 because of that, but they aren't that bad anymore and again, in time it will get better.
 
lol i'm sorry man. I don't mean to be rude. Just had a rough night. That just set me off. :p
 
bboynitrous said:
I know this is a forum, and people always say what they want and share their experiences, but there is no need to repeat yourself 25 times. We got the fact that you hate it because you think it's a piece of shit, but the other 9 million people that aren't having a problem with it think there is something wrong with yours. Their settings and even mine do not reset. It's just an option for you to install it. You may not have any problems with your forceware drivers, but I bet you don't have any problems with the old control panel. You can't compare the new software to the mature older software. Especially when you know the track record with ATI"s drivers in general. Everyone knows they are garbage. I almost sold my x800 because of that, but they aren't that bad anymore and again, in time it will get better.
Click to expand...
I'd rather not wait for them to cut their teeth on my money and get something that works right off. You know? Its not like it was even a Beta or something. Then I'd be understanding that I was installing it at the risk of it not working.
 
Well, it doesn't really have too many problems anymore. The TCP problems I have were something else. It just so happens they fucked with the CCC just like they did with my system. That's Microsoft, not ATI. No program is bug free buddy. I've had registry problems with other things too.
 
BossNoodleKaboodle said:
Looks like I'm not the only one who has problems with its interface. Like I said, I'm used to barebones professional apps with menus that make sense and don't hide things. Its my experience thats shaped my opinion of it.

There's a marked difference between opening one control pannel with a logical layout, and useful options like direct control over AA and AF, trilinear(which you can actually get with forceware ;) ) and having a "control center" with a rediculous preview mode thats far too small to notice any image quality differences at all. At least ATI Tool's has a useful 3dmode that you can select to view or not view when using it. Fortunately I use a 6800 on my main workstation. Only thing AI did was make particle effects look 2d on my machine and enable bilinear and disable AA and AF automatically, and repeatedly. There's no ghost in my computer doing it, and I sure didn't set it to that. After changing the settings to your specifications, click AI to high, and then it switches EVERY driver setting to performance even if you forced quality initially.
Click to expand...

If you double click the "rediculous preview" it goes fullscreen, making it much easier to see the changes.
As far as your "no fluff forceware"........does it still have that amazing, innovative popup blocker?
 
Originally posted by BossNoodleKaboodle!
I've NEVER had these kind of problems with a forcware release ever.
Click to expand...

Would you like me to give you a list of some of the issues i have experienced with the glorious ForceWare Drivers and my 6800GT :eek: You might wanna grab a coffee it will take awhile lmfao :p


As for the Cat 4.12s i found it fixed one minor problem i was getting with flickering textures in thief3 still.

Two each his own in the end cant please all the people all of the time ;)
 
Hey Noodle guy, you've ruined this thread already, now get some sleep... If you have such issues with ATI and 9800 Pro, then why don't you just fucking sell the card and get another 6800?

On my system the Cat 4.12 (without the CCC) performed exactly like the 4.12 betas, which gave me a 5-7 fps improvement over the 4.11 omegas in the CS:S video stress test. No difference during HL2 gameplay though (CPU-limited?).
 
Is it just me, or has there been WAY too much drama-queen in this thread over a damn driver release?
 
Hal|9k said:
Is it just me, or has there been WAY too much drama-queen in this thread over a damn driver release?
Click to expand...


Yea no shit! I'd admit I did give a little more juice to the Red Dragon, but lets keep that on th down-low.

We all get it. You don't like. Fine. Move along!
 
gordon151 said:
Now for the gripes. Anyone know how to disable the preview :p? Really, CCC would be so much better if you could disable this and its probably the main issue most people have with this thing. Also does it really have to refresh the screen when I set something? The standard control panel got rid of this and ccc just reintroduced it back.
Click to expand...

On the top left of the CCC, there are three modes to choose from: Beginner, Advanced, Custom.

If you click Custom there you can disable tabs for now and only have the non preview section available.
 
Brent_Justice said:
it does have added functionality that you can't get with the regular control panel, Catalyst AI control for one, Overdrive 3, App Detection, etc....
Click to expand...

Overdrive 3. From what I understand there is a slider for it now. Is that only for x850s or for a future cat (5.1?)
 
As far as I've read, the overdrive 3 option is only for the X850's.
You can always use radlinker/radclocker, which in my opinion, is just as good (if not better) than the integrated ATI Overdrive tools - and they work regardless of ATI GPU and driverversion.

Of course you void your warranty when overclocking with radclocker. At least in theory.

Regarding the CCC; I find it useful - of course it has its quirks, and above-acceptable level of system usage. But as I understand, these quirks have more to do with the present state of the .NET 1.1, than with ATI programming. According to ATI, these problems will be corrected when .NET 2.0 is out, which should be early next year - if I remember correctly.

And as always, if you don't like the CCC, theres a 4.12 driver with the old CP; so I don't see the problem.

btw. 1st post!
 
So let me get this straight....

My 9600 has enjoyed built in Overdrive support from official ATI drivers almost since its inception, and NOW I suddenly am fubar'd and do not get such support?

Also...while I understand Noodle being a bit overly verbose...why do so many people settle for crap when it is given to them nowadays? Seriously...not tossing out flamebait.

The CCC is bloated, buggy, and adds no more functionality then that which was already in the CP.

Here is an example of a bug I am sure most do not know:

I connect to my home PC via Remote Desktop on almost a daily basis. Ever since I loaded the drivers that have the CCC I am having serious memory leak issues with CLI.exe.

Once I connect remotely cli.exe spins up and just starts chewing memory, and it keeps going until I get all sorts of memory low errors. Care to tell me why cli.exe has to use 120megs+ of memory when Remote Desktop is enabled? I don't and since this is not something many people do on a regular basis I cannot find where ATI knows of this either.
 
Bah
I have all of you beat. I installed the 4.12's last night and now my machine ONLY boots into safe mode.

I am going to ditch the 4.12's on lunch and go to Omega's based off 4.11's :cool:
 
Holy crap people. You don't have to use CCC. Eventually when Longhorn comes out you will though. Good thing they are getting a jump on it now

I, like many, have no problems with it. I think it looks professional and easy to use. After using it I don't care for a big Tabs over tabs approach.

If your having problems with CCC, It might benefit you to try Net2.0beta like 43n1 said

Rocketrider, You should have Overdrive still, you should just not get the slider bar if you are using CCC.
 
netrat...then perhaps something went wrong with my install.

In the CCC, under the advanced settings, in the 4.11 drivers, I had the Overdrive under the VPU settings...now....NOTHING.

No Overdrive support at all that I can find.

When I get home tonight I am going to uninstall CCC and install the CP and see if that fixes things.

Oh and I did report the memory leak problem with XP RD to ATI today...so hopefully they can get that fixed.

I was a bit harsh about the "crap" comment...but it just seems that sleek and simple is something evil nowadays. Everything seems to HAVE to be big, fancy, overly graphical, memory intensive, etc. I guess I am just getting old and pining for the old days of simple and effective.
 
In a two years time, you'll probably find that CCC is simple and effective compared to the CCCC_2 from 2006 ;)

Seriously, though, ATI is getting prepared for Longhorn, and its probably just a matter of time before Nvidia jumps on the .net waggon too.
 
I have never downloaded CCC and probably never will, i don't see what the problem here is.
 
i can't believe this thread is 4 pages of arguments about CCC and only a couple posts about what really matters (performance boosts)
correct me if i'm wrong, but we don't have to install/use CCC right?
 
creepcolony said:
i can't believe this thread is 4 pages of arguments about CCC and only a couple posts about what really matters (performance boosts)
correct me if i'm wrong, but we don't have to install/use CCC right?
Click to expand...

Yea who knew!?

You don't need to install CCC if you don't want to. There are two versions to download.

As for performance boost there pretty mcuh isn't any from the 4.12betas. They did fix some problems though that came up in games.
 
Wow 4 pages later you guys are STILL talking about the POS CCC ......you don't need to download it! Now maybe we can talk about performance and benchmarks with the new 4.12s?!?!

I noticed 4-5 fps increase in half-life 2 but i get a jittery effect only on water...so im going back to 4.11s the 4.12betas also had this problem so i thought maybe the official 4.12s will get that bug fixed and didn't happen. :rolleyes:
 
We will all be using CCC or a version of it when Longhorn arrives, until then I'm perfectly happy with the "standard" 32-bit XP/pro version.

Nvidia will also have to have a version of it sooner or later, whether or not they put it out to the general public early or not is totally up to them.
 
ZenOps said:
Nvidia will also have to have a version of it sooner or later, whether or not they put it out to the general public early or not is totally up to them.
Click to expand...
Why do you think a CCC panel type app is necessary for Longhorn? I don't follow.
 
Longhorn will be .NET, the old drivers will probably work but its rumored that in order to get WHQL'ed, all drivers will have to integrate into it.

Natural progression, 8 and 16 bit had .sys files with command line /whatever controllers, 32-bit has .dll's and registry .ini .inf controllers.

.Net is supposed to be a driver and controller set integrated into the OS, sort of like the Linux build kernel idea *I think* Definitely better for performance if done like that as its possible to integrate the entire system (sound card videocard network) as a single optimized entity. IE: if there is idle resource time on a videocard over the PCI-E bus, the soundcard can use it at a driver level instead of having to "interrupt" it - IRQ's *should* not be necessary with Longhorn if everything works out ok.
 
jon67 said:
Hey Noodle guy, you've ruined this thread already, now get some sleep... If you have such issues with ATI and 9800 Pro, then why don't you just fucking sell the card and get another 6800?

On my system the Cat 4.12 (without the CCC) performed exactly like the 4.12 betas, which gave me a 5-7 fps improvement over the 4.11 omegas in the CS:S video stress test. No difference during HL2 gameplay though (CPU-limited?).
Click to expand...

LOL No one I know wants to buy it or I would have.
 
BossNoodleKaboodle said:
I'd rather not wait for them to cut their teeth on my money and get something that works right off. You know? Its not like it was even a Beta or something. Then I'd be understanding that I was installing it at the risk of it not working.
Click to expand...

Then get a Geforce 6800 and gripe about nVidia's having a Video Processor that has not only "not worked right off" but has never worked. (rant mode off on that one, just making a point).

Nobody has a graphics solution without a few flaws, not ATI, not nVidia, nobody. CCC is a resource hog, but it works fine for plenty of people, and its improving release by release, as drivers tend to do. I never installed it when I had my Radeon 9700 because I didn't want more RAM taken up, and you certainly have the choice not to use it. Instead, you gripe about your Radeon 9800 Pro (which is a great card, IMHO) because of a piece of software that you don't even have to use if you don't want to, and without which you can still get perfectly acceptable results and performance with your card.
 
ZenOps said:
Longhorn will be .NET, the old drivers will probably work but its rumored that in order to get WHQL'ed, all drivers will have to integrate into it.
Click to expand...
A driver doesn't have to use the .NET framework. As a matter of fact, there is little even in the .NET 2.0 beta that would even apply to a driver.

ATI just seems for some reason to have chosen to make CCC rely on .NET. AFAIK, there's nothing in the CCC that does more than write registry settings, make calls to the driver and run 3D animations. .NET isn't necessary for that.
 
Did they just jump to the Nullsoft installer? First time I've noticed, at least. Doesn't make any difference, I'm just curious to see if I just haven't been paying attention.
 
Anyone [with suitable displays set for 85hz] notice that their games are running in 85hz vertical refresh with these new 4.12 drivers? The last drivers I was using were the omegas based on the 4.10 betas I think... every game ran in 60hz.

I'm very pleased to once again be able to run with VSYNC such that it doesn't limit my max framerate to 60.
 
BossNoodleKaboodle said:
LOL No one I know wants to buy it or I would have.
Click to expand...


Then trash it. If I were that unhappy with anything I bought, I wouldn't keep it, just get rid of the damn thing. You obviously know what you're doing right? Its obviously a crap application for a crap piece of hardware right? THEN THROW IT OUT OF YOUR WINDOW. (Just give me a call and your address so I can stand outside your window when you do it)
 
BossNoodleKaboodle said:
The CCC is the worst graphics related software I've EVER used. After installing .NET my computer takes about twice as long to boot up and the CCC doesn't add functionality... it takes it away! I can't adjust my VSYNC settings like I used to. The AI setting is terrible. All it does is put the performance/quality slider and settings all the way to performance. Its not a true performance boost, its just lowering the IQ to the max so that you get more FPS. Fireballs in Doom 3 and smoke effects in other games look like something from 1995 when the slider is automatically put on highest performance, which is what happens even in 2d mode when you put AI on high.

Its like AOL vs IE. One is for people who don't know how the internet works and lets them point and click their way to disaster, the other requires a basic knowledge and allows functionality with an all-business, no fluff approach. Yes I mean catalyst vs Forceware.
Click to expand...

Download the drivers without the CCC.
 
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