Cant get crossfire outta my mind...

A

Aditlojs

Weaksauce
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After all the talks of micro stuttering and poor scaling in a couple games I want to play, I'm still considering 6870 crossfire...

I plan on gaming 1080p... Can you say overkill?
 
Why pay for two 6870s when a single Radeon 6950 2GB will be faster in most cases, destroy everything ever at 1920x1080, produce less noise, less heat, and draw less power... oh, and also cost less money?

Now as always, CrossfireX / SLI is not worth considering with anything less than top end cards. The only reason to ever go with a mutli-GPU configuration is when the single fastest reasonably priced GPU available simply isn't enough for your intended display setup (3 30" 2560x1600 native LCDs for example). Otherwise a single card is more reliable (more stable framerates, fewer driver issues), plenty fast for any single monitor, and more cost effective 99% of the time.

This is coming from someone who ran Tri-SLI with 8800GTXs, then a pair of 4890s in CrossfireX. Both setups had their benefits, but my current single 6950 is better in every way. Period.
 
silent-circuit said:
Why pay for two 6870s when a single Radeon 6950 2GB will be faster in most cases, destroy everything ever at 1920x1080, produce less noise, less heat, and draw less power... oh, and also cost less money?

Now as always, CrossfireX / SLI is not worth considering with anything less than top end cards. The only reason to ever go with a mutli-GPU configuration is when the single fastest reasonably priced GPU available simply isn't enough for your intended display setup (3 30" 2560x1600 native LCDs for example). Otherwise a single card is more reliable (more stable framerates, fewer driver issues), plenty fast for any single monitor, and more cost effective 99% of the time.

This is coming from someone who ran Tri-SLI with 8800GTXs, then a pair of 4890s in CrossfireX. Both setups had their benefits, but my current single 6950 is better in every way. Period.
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WTF are you talking about?

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/301?vs=293
 
I'm talking about those numbers are driver and title dependent, the dual 6870 setup costs about $100 more while halving your effective video memory, adds somewhere between 100 and 150 watts draw at load, doubles up on fan noise, and that's a bunch of canned benchmarks that mean just about nothing in the real world. That's what I'm talking about.
 
silent-circuit said:
I'm talking about those numbers are driver and title dependent, the dual 6870 setup costs about $100 more while halving your effective video memory, adds somewhere between 100 and 150 watts draw at load, doubles up on fan noise, and that's a bunch of canned benchmarks that mean just about nothing in the real world. That's what I'm talking about.
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That...

drivers/CAPs/Profiles optimizing for benchmark runs is not very uncommon.
 
2x 6870 would destroy a 6950 by a fairly significant margin in benchmarks and real games. 1GB vs 2GB isn't going to come into play at 1080P.
 
Since we're only talking about 1080P 2 6870s are gonna be faster than any single card solution except a super high overclocked GTX 580 or 6970 like a lightning etc..

Most of the time the 6870s will have the edge real world gaming or benchmark.

You get nearly double the performance with 6000 series cards in crossfire.
 
Even if it is noticeably faster, silent hit the nail on the head, you have to look at the big picture. Going from a 6950 to 6870x2, at 1080p, will generally be the difference between 2xAA or 4xAA and 8xAA. Consider all of the negatives that silent mentioned, and then compare that to getting some more AA than you would have otherwise. If you have absolutely no concern about the issues silent mentioned, then it might be worthwhile. Otherwise, for you, it's the epitome of diminishing returns. It's hardly worth it IMO.

The thermal aspect is the big -. Even if you have the cards in slots 1/4, the top card gets starved for fresh air, and the heat radiating off the back of the PCB of the bottom card exacerbates the issue. To give you an idea of this, my top 6950 used to run 10* C hotter than my bottom one while the top one's fan is running in the 60% range, compared to 45% on the bottom one. After getting ribbon cables to separate the two, the top and bottom cards run at practically the same temp. and fan speed.

PS this is the 6950 1 GB I'm talking about. I think it would suit your resolution perfectly, or if you want serious future proofing then the 2GB.
 
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At 1080P the 2 6870's will be faster and you really don't have to worry about memory at that resolution.
 
I'll admit it, tonight was the first night I have actually tried Crossfire in a game. Finally got two ASUS 2GB 5870s to play nice together and overclock to 975MHz each.

Then I loaded up the Witcher 2 with Ubersampling and the game is smooth as hell. I can see no microstuttering whatsoever.
 
I've been running two 5870 (2GB) cards in Crossfire (why did AMD change the name to CrossfireX? -_-) and I've yet to experience "microstuttering"
 
I added a second 6870 a few months ago and I love the performance on my 1080p 32" LG. I can now max all the settings and full AA on almost every game I play.
 
If you already have 1 6870, grab another, they're dirty cheap.
If you don't, I'd go 6950 for some future proofing.

I run 2x6870's at 1080p and it's great. Pretty much everything is run at max settings with 8xaa.
 
I'm going to agree with the other posters saying go for the more powerful single card solution first. While Crossfire is great, it DOES add complexity and potential issues. If there is a single card that can power your display and meet your needs, I would always go that route first. Unlock a 6950 or grab a 6970 first, which should be fine for most current games, and then you can add a second one later if newer games require it.
 
6 series CF scaling is amazing.

i had 5850 CF, it was good. not so great scaling though (compared to 6 series).
I had no regrets going CF...
unfortunately one card's fan died, and now here i am with a single 5850 :(
 
I've always gone fastest single ATI/AMD gpu card of the generation and never regretted it.

I don't think I'll ever be able to put myself at the mercy of "how a game scales with multiple graphics cards" which most of the time seems to be dependent on the game dev's/driver dev's moods. (or game engine architecture).

Let's just says that for me, a single card will have more predictable performance then a multi-card setup. And I like predictability.
 
Unless you are going with a multimonitor / multi-high resolution setup, I'd say avoid going with Crossfire or SLI.
 
silent-circuit said:
Why pay for two 6870s when a single Radeon 6950 2GB will be faster in most cases, destroy everything ever at 1920x1080, produce less noise, less heat, and draw less power... oh, and also cost less money?

Now as always, CrossfireX / SLI is not worth considering with anything less than top end cards. The only reason to ever go with a mutli-GPU configuration is when the single fastest reasonably priced GPU available simply isn't enough for your intended display setup (3 30" 2560x1600 native LCDs for example). Otherwise a single card is more reliable (more stable framerates, fewer driver issues), plenty fast for any single monitor, and more cost effective 99% of the time.

This is coming from someone who ran Tri-SLI with 8800GTXs, then a pair of 4890s in CrossfireX. Both setups had their benefits, but my current single 6950 is better in every way. Period.
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If you look at HardOCP's own benchmarks (for example here: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/07/11/gigabyte_gtx_560_ti_oc_video_card_review/1) you can see that a single factory OC'd 6870 is competitive with a 6950. I don't know how you think that TWO 6870s aren't going to completely walk all over a single 6950. At 1080P, you will rarely, if ever, run into a memory constraint.

The power and heat concerns are valid, but you are getting much better performance with CFX 6870s over a single 6950.
 
Rizen said:
If you look at HardOCP's own benchmarks (for example here: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/07/11/gigabyte_gtx_560_ti_oc_video_card_review/1) you can see that a single factory OC'd 6870 is competitive with a 6950. I don't know how you think that TWO 6870s aren't going to completely walk all over a single 6950. At 1080P, you will rarely, if ever, run into a memory constraint.

The power and heat concerns are valid, but you are getting much better performance with CFX 6870s over a single 6950.
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It also costs another $100 or so. The increased shader power / average FPS isn't needed... cause it's 1080P. "Much better performance" over fairly solid 60+ FPS (often much, much higher) with max or near to max settings in damn near all titles -- what are we really getting for that additional $100 here? More power draw, more heat, more complexity, more points of failure in hardware and software. Apart from the slight increase in e-peen, not much.

Plus, if you get another 2 monitors at some point and decide to go Eyefinity, it's not nearly as strong a setup as you'd have adding another 6950.

I stand by my original point, which quite a few people have chimed in to support: If there's a single card that will handle your resolution (at this point, 1920x1200 and below), there is no reason to get two cards. Period. Yes, scaling and compatibility have improved a good bit in the last few years, but there's still no reason to invite complication when it's completely unnecessary.
 
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Yep if your resolution is only 1080p there is no reason to get crossfire/sli. Just get the best card your money can buy in a single gpu set up. 6950 2gb is great because of unlockable to 6970 and 2gb vram
 
pman065 said:
Yep if your resolution is only 1080p there is no reason to get crossfire/sli. Just get the best card your money can buy in a single gpu set up. 6950 2gb is great because of unlockable to 6970 and 2gb vram
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Depends on the game. If you are playing The Witcher 2 for example and want Ubersampling mode, you will have to use Crossfire, even if only on a single 1080p monitor. Almost all 6950s on sale can nolonger be unlocked now. They are laser cut.
 
silent-circuit said:
I'm talking about those numbers are driver and title dependent, the dual 6870 setup costs about $100 more while halving your effective video memory, adds somewhere between 100 and 150 watts draw at load, doubles up on fan noise, and that's a bunch of canned benchmarks that mean just about nothing in the real world. That's what I'm talking about.
Click to expand...

You're just dead wrong about this. You can use just about any bench you want and the dual 6870's will crush a single 6950 by a significant margin.
 
Aditlojs said:
After all the talks of micro stuttering and poor scaling in a couple games I want to play, I'm still considering 6870 crossfire...

I plan on gaming 1080p... Can you say overkill?
Click to expand...

I have two 6870's in crossfire and I play at 1080p on my Samsung 67" TV. Yes, its a lot of GPU power for 1080p, but I can play any game available at that resolution at the absolute maximum graphical settings with AA enabled so that's the benefit of having all that GPU power.
 
If you don't think a dual 6870 setup will outperform a single 6950, you must be smoking crack.
 
TwistedAegis said:
I'm going to agree with the other posters saying go for the more powerful single card solution first. While Crossfire is great, it DOES add complexity and potential issues. If there is a single card that can power your display and meet your needs, I would always go that route first. Unlock a 6950 or grab a 6970 first, which should be fine for most current games, and then you can add a second one later if newer games require it.
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There's no complexity really, the reality is you may experience a corssfire scaling or other issue about 5% of the time, one game occasionally here and there might cause an issue until the crossfire profiles are updated, but I'll take that 5% over a single card that underperforms the crossfire setup 95% of the time in every game.
 
Blkout said:
You're just dead wrong about this. You can use just about any bench you want and the dual 6870's will crush a single 6950 by a significant margin.
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The margin is insignificant because the 6950 is already giving you 60+ FPS in almost all titles, as well as all the other points I mentioned.

Here's the thing: I never claimed a pair of 6870s wouldn't be faster than a single 6950. I claimed it was stupid to get the 6870s over a single 6950 if you were going to be running 1920x1080 for a variety of reasons I already detailed.

So everyone that keeps coming back to this thread to tell me I'm an idiot and clearly can't read benches? Yes, I am aware that when you put the 6870s in the box, the numbers go up. I don't care. Neither should anyone else, unless they're benching professionally... in which case they shouldn't be running /any/ number of mid range cards.
 
silent-circuit said:
The margin is insignificant because the 6950 is already giving you 60+ FPS in almost all titles, as well as all the other points I mentioned.

Here's the thing: I never claimed a pair of 6870s wouldn't be faster than a single 6950. I claimed it was stupid to get the 6870s over a single 6950 if you were going to be running 1920x1080 for a variety of reasons I already detailed.

So everyone that keeps coming back to this thread to tell me I'm an idiot and clearly can't read benches? Yes, I am aware that when you put the 6870s in the box, the numbers go up. I don't care. Neither should anyone else, unless they're benching professionally... in which case they shouldn't be running /any/ number of mid range cards.
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I guess I fail to see your point when I can play ANY game(except Witcher 2) at max settings with 8xMSAA or 4xSSAA at 1080p at 60fps without ever dropping below 60fps which you can't do with a single 6950 or 6970 for that matter. If you leave AA out of it, I guess a single 6950 or 6970 might be sufficient at 1080p to get "playable" framerates in most games, but it still won't match what dual 6870's can do. I keep V-sync enabled at all times and I don't like to see my fps drop below 60fps under any circumstances. Dual 6870's gives me this ability at 1080p with the highest levels of AA and maximum graphic settings.

I just can't see how you feel you have a point to argue against that. Its not just my opnion, its a fact.
 
Buy a second 6870 and save yourself the hassle of selling your origional card for a setup that will be slower. At 1080p, you don't need 2GB of vram so just go with CFX 6870's and max everything out with lots of head room. Personally I like playing games with fps above 80 constant because then I know if more people join the server or whatever then I have head room for my fps to drop while still being 60+ fps if those situations were to occur. Just my 2c.
 
silent-circuit said:
The margin is insignificant because the 6950 is already giving you 60+ FPS in almost all titles, as well as all the other points I mentioned.

Here's the thing: I never claimed a pair of 6870s wouldn't be faster than a single 6950. I claimed it was stupid to get the 6870s over a single 6950 if you were going to be running 1920x1080 for a variety of reasons I already detailed.

So everyone that keeps coming back to this thread to tell me I'm an idiot and clearly can't read benches? Yes, I am aware that when you put the 6870s in the box, the numbers go up. I don't care. Neither should anyone else, unless they're benching professionally... in which case they shouldn't be running /any/ number of mid range cards.
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I don't know about you but I run the highest level of AA I can in every game. While I don't have any 6870s or 6950s to test, I am confident that 6870s in CFX will allow a higher AA threshold in most games than a single 6950. If that is your goal, that may be a better buy.

If I was buying for myself I would most likely go for a 6950, but the 6870 CFX performance is certainly appealing for the money.
 
Running two 5770's in Xfire for months now with zero issues. Silky smooth gaming.

Then again I reckon a lot of folks just run crappy setups. Hence crappy results.
 
I already have a 6950 1gb and a 6870... I am trying to figure out if I want to buy another 6870 and sell the 6950 or sell the 6870...

I am watercooling so I am fine with the added heatload.

6950+waterblock+unisink = $260
6870+waterblock+6870+waterblock+unisink - MIR - bundled games = $375

The great thing is that I can use the same unisink on the 6950 and 6870...
 
I'd go with a second 6870, watercool and OC to hell. I don't see the point in a 1GB 6950. Is there still a big diff in 6870 -> 6950 1GB vs 2GB?
 
I used to run dual 4890's in Crossfire. ZERO problems. Ever.

All this talk about microstutter these days is COMPLETELY over-exaggerated. I NEVER not ONCE ever experiences this lucrative microstutter problem...and this was with 4890's...the experience with the 5xxx and 6xxx series has gotten even better so its even more of a non-issue now then it was with the 4890's (which again never showed this problem).

I don't know about Nvidia so I can't say but microstutter no longer exists.

Also, not to go into depth but with my 4890's I had no problems setting it up...like at all...I simply plugged both them in, power cables, Crossfire bridge, let the drivers do their thing and I was ready to go...no more or less complicating or troublesome then installing a single card. After 10 minutes of installing I started playing games left and right and they all worked flawlessly. From the start until I sold them I never had a single issue...ever.

As far as compatibility goes I never had any issues either...maybe I was a lucky one but even games that people said didn't support Crossfire always seemed to run like they did...and I was gaming with 4890's when only one was starting to fall pretty behind, but again I never had any issues with any games. Never ran across a game I couldn't crush.

Plus, if a game doesn't support it you can use Crossfire Xtension that adds support for any game or do some tweaking...I mean, sure its some extra work, but we ARE PC gamers...so this must always be considered just not with games but with any software/hardware we install these days. I've certainly come to expect it.

I see where people here are coming from because honestly a nice 6970 2GB WILL be able to play any current game at max settings...however, the difference between Xfire 6870's and a single 6970 will still be noticeable...think of playing a game maxed out at 45fps on the 6970 while the Xfire 6870's will be able to get 60fps+ consistently.

To the OP...do you currently own a 6870 and are thinking of adding a second or are you looking to out right get two and Crossfiring them? If you already own one get a second right now...you can find them for ~$140-$150 which makes it totally worth it. If you don't own one yet I'd still be hard pressed to recommend anything else as even at ~$300 for the pair that's still cheaper than a single 6970 while still being considerably faster.

Either case, just my 2 cents and I seem to be reiterating whats already been said but it is true. Granted Crossfire uses more power and creates more heat, but we're trying to hard core game here! If heat and power usage are that big a deal to you then go game on a console!
 
Alright... I am going for the gusto... You guys do a great job of talking people into spending more money than they originally intended...
 
That silent guy denouncing multiple card setups is just plain wrong.
Most of the games I have played recently WERE NOT maxed out at 1920x1200 with a 6950 unlocked at 920/1375.

I added a 6950, reverting my original card back to the 6950 bios and rolling with 6950 crossfire (didn't want to deal with more heat and noise or potential hassle of trying to find another unlockable 6950).

So here is the actual difference in games with basically a 6970 vs 6950x2:
All resolution is set to 1920x1200.

Witcher 2
Max settings, no depth of field (I dislike it), base AA option is selected
6970: It's been a while since I played this with the 6970, but I would say it averaged about 45-50 FPS, dipping into the 30s with frenetic action. For some reason it often felt unresponsive to use magic skills or make attacks.

6950x2: Average framerate of about 90+, going over 100 at times. Unresponsiveness seemed to be completely gone. Much more enjoyable now. I even tried ubsersampling. Fraps reported an average of about 45 to 50, but it now seemed rather choppy. Perhaps I was experience the much-ballyhooed micro-stuttering.

Metro 2033
Highest settings, 4X MSAA. No depth of Field
6970: Ran pretty well for the most part. Sometimes it was well into the 50s or 60s. When alot of lighting or tons of action was on the screen, framerate could get destroyed, dropping into the 20s or possibly even high teens in the worst case scenario. Nonetheless I played through the entire game dealing with this when it cropped up and still enjoyed it.

6950x2: Generally the average framerate seemed much higher. Also, worst case framerate was much better, not really dropping below the mid 30s. Though I just played through the prologue with this setup, the prologue is very demanding with a scene with massive lighting effects and a giant fight that is among the most taxing fights in the game hardware wise.

Battlefield BC2:
Max settings, 4X MSAA (I dislike 8X)
6970: Ran pretty well. I would say it averaged 50-70 FPS. Sometimes during intense explosions it could drop to the 30s for a very brief instant. Often ran with Vsync on and didn't really notice any input lag.

6950x2: Now averaging 90-140 FPS. Really doesn't ever dip too much lower than this.
Strangely enough now noticed an input lag with Vsync on. Wonder if this is now because my framerate is so much higher than 60 FPS? Or perhaps if feels like a lag because it is now SO DAMN SMOOTH AND RESPONSIVE without Vsync. It's just awesomely responsive. I feel like I'm actually better at the game now, and I often am able to shoot first when I wasn't before. As a downside every now and then I will see some black flashes on the screen (like once every half hour). It goes away after a few seconds. I do not believe it is an overheating issue because my cards are only running in the mid to low 70s (about the same or even slightly lower than when I had the unlocked 6950 overclocked and overvolted).

So really in all 3 games I only see one issue that I could directly attribute to Crossfire (occassional black flashes in BC2). And for the amount of performance I have gained, it's not a big deal. If a game has problems in Crossfire I can just as easily run it in windowed mode to disable it without too much problems. I figure the only games that nowadays will not scale well in Crossfire would be indy games or older mods, which should not require the most horsepower anyways.
 
lol jhokie...

You post makes you seem like a very discriminating (picky) gamer. DoF - I dislike it, felt unresponsive, I dislike 8x MSAA...

thanks for the informative post... Gotta get a 6870 ordered..
 
Yeah I totally Wall of texted that one. No doubt I am picky... otherwise I had no business ordering a second card when my first one was working fine!

Figured it would be cheaper and give better performance than buying a completely new card next gen.
 
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