Can you list reasons why Windows 8 is bad other than UI?

TheBuzzer

TheBuzzer

HACK THE WORLD!
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Aug 15, 2005
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I am wondering what are the reasons windows 8 is worse than windows 7 other than the UI.

For me, windows 8 looks quite good but hate the fact that the UI got changed with that start replacement. However stardock start8 helps with that at least.

Windows 8 seems to have build in windows security essentials and faster boot time. So what are the reasons that it is worse than 7?
 
high DPC latency. In fact DPC latency is still really bad in Win8.

Has some old Vista bugs like copies that crap out unless you disable Windows Search.
 
I prefer better window management for the desktop side of things.
 
None really. Under the hood, the OS is based on Windows 7, but tweaked to be better.
 
None really. Under the hood, the OS is based on Windows 7, but tweaked to be better.
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This exactly. Windows 8 is all around improved, except for the usability nightmare that is the UI changes. I'm hoping that someone releases some software that restores the start button to normal functionality.
 
FreakyT said:
This exactly. Windows 8 is all around improved, except for the usability nightmare that is the UI changes. I'm hoping that someone releases some software that restores the start button to normal functionality.
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Already done if you hadn't been paying attention. I believe the most popular program is called Classic Shell, which can do any start menu style from Windows 95 to Windows 7.

But really, I hardly ever use the new start menu, just like I hardly ever use the old one. When my computer first boots up, I don't even have to click on the desktop button, I just click on the Firefox button and get taken right to the desktop with firefox.
 
Tsumi said:
But really, I hardly ever use the new start menu, just like I hardly ever use the old one. When my computer first boots up, I don't even have to click on the desktop button, I just click on the Firefox button and get taken right to the desktop with firefox.
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I've talked with one guy who really loves Windows 8, and that basically summed up how he used his computer: because he launched apps purely by searching or favorites, he could use Windows 8 just as fast as Win7. That's the one hope I see for Windows 8 -- if people realize that keyboard shortcuts + searching work quickly, it won't completely confuse everyone. That said, I still think it will confuse everyone.
 
dnottis said:
high DPC latency. In fact DPC latency is still really bad in Win8.
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I did some research on this. This may or may not be true, but the results from the tool DPC Latency Checker on Windows 8 are incorrect.

Straight from the horse's mouth

Windows 8 Compatibility: The DPC latency utility runs on Windows 8 but does not show correct values. The output suggests that the Windows 8 kernel performs badly and introduces a constant latency of one millisecond which is not the case in practice. DPCs in the Windows 8 kernel behave identical to Windows 7. The utility produces incorrect results because the implementation of kernel timers has changed in Windows 8 which causes a side effect with the measuring algorithm used by the utility. Thesycon is working on a new version of the DPC latency utility and will make it available on this site as soon as it is finished.
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http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml
 
Nobody will have the balls to create a dockable x86 phone that offers a full desktop when attached to an external display and keyboard...

thats the biggest problem with Windows 8 (followed by the ridiculous start screen on desktop....)
 
dnottis said:
high DPC latency. In fact DPC latency is still really bad in Win8.
Click to expand...
Been saying from the beginning that the tool didn't look like it was reading correctly. Looks like I was right :D

dnottis said:
Has some old Vista bugs like copies that crap out unless you disable Windows Search.
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You keep claiming this, but I still can't reproduce it... no way would I ever disable the search service, either.
 
Unknown-One said:
You keep claiming this, but I still can't reproduce it... no way would I ever disable the search service, either.
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Yeah, not sure what's going on with him on that, he says he can reproduce on multiple machines. I've done some huge copies on 50GB+ with thousands of files on several machines and never saw any problems and with the Search Service on which I agree, tuning that off isn't much of a solution.
 
I think the UI is THE biggest complaint. But, my complaint with the UI isn't the Metro styling, it's the multiple UI's (Aero vs. Metro) and the way they are sewn together.... Not good.

Other than that, it's Win7 Special Edition. It's got a few new features, boots fast, Storage Spaces, faster... It's nothing majorly huge for an upgrade, and there aren't many negatives, really. Maybe that was the point: to make the UI the biggest change and not screw with the foundation. So, it's still fast and stable like Windows 7 but with a different look and better touch features.
 
Ur_Mom said:
I think the UI is THE biggest complaint. But, my complaint with the UI isn't the Metro styling, it's the multiple UI's (Aero vs. Metro) and the way they are sewn together.... Not good.

Other than that, it's Win7 Special Edition. It's got a few new features, boots fast, Storage Spaces, faster... It's nothing majorly huge for an upgrade, and there aren't many negatives, really. Maybe that was the point: to make the UI the biggest change and not screw with the foundation. So, it's still fast and stable like Windows 7 but with a different look and better touch features.
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Yup...when users hate on the GUI of a GUI-only OS, whether the foundations are better or worse is kinda mute.
 
Skripka said:
Yup...when users hate on the GUI of a GUI-only OS, whether the foundations are better or worse is kinda mute.
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Yup...when some users hate on the GUI of a GUI-only OS, whether the foundations are better or worse is kind of moot for them.

There. Fixed that for you!
 
Unknown-One said:
You keep claiming this, but I still can't reproduce it... no way would I ever disable the search service, either.
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Folks with SSDs already have it disabled, or they should... I don't have an SSD but Windows definitely doesn't work right on multiple machines it causes copies to take a shit and never complete. Once disabled I've never had a problem and that's been at least a few weeks now.
 
dnottis said:
Folks with SSDs already have it disabled, or they should... I don't have an SSD but Windows definitely doesn't work right on multiple machines it causes copies to take a shit and never complete. Once disabled I've never had a problem and that's been at least a few weeks now.
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I have 4 machines running Windows 8 Pro RTM with SSDs and have not seen this problem and they all have Search enabled.
 
Ryun said:
I did some research on this. This may or may not be true, but the results from the tool DPC Latency Checker on Windows 8 are incorrect.

Straight from the horse's mouth

http://www.thesycon.de/eng/latency_check.shtml
Click to expand...

Sounds like some bullshit while they change DPC latency checker to make Win8 look good...


Latency Mon supports Windows 8 CP -
http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_os

LatencyMon runs on the following operating systems:
Windows 8 Consumer Preview
Windows 7 32 bit editions
Windows 7 x64 editions
Windows 2008 Server 32 bit editions
Windows 2008 Server x64 editions
Windows Vista 32 bit editions
Windows Vista x64 editions

DPC latency under CP was terrible with this app and is still terrible under RTM too.

Changing the program to make Win8 look less like it's got DPC latency issue isn't the same as the OS not having issue. The funny thing is the #1 offender if the built in antimalware, the next top offenders are the MS USB drivers. lmao.
 
heatlesssun said:
I have 4 machines running Windows 8 Pro RTM with SSDs and have not seen this problem and they all have Search enabled.
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from what I've read you dont want it enabled when using an SSD in fact Windows may have already done that for you.

I've had no issues with it disabled and the system feels even snappier with it off. I dont remember the last time I actually searched for anything though. :/
 
dnottis said:
from what I've read you dont want it enabled when using an SSD in fact Windows may have already done that for you.

I've had no issues with it disabled and the system feels even snappier with it off. I dont remember the last time I actually searched for anything though. :/
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It's running on all my SSD systems and that is the default, I didn't change anything. The search service seems to be very light, it not like my SSD is constantly working or anything like that. I just could never see disabling it, it vastly improves productivity to me especially being a heavy user of OneNote.
 
Ryun said:
Do you actually believe that? What possible reason would they have to do that?
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Dunno but thats not the only DPC latency monitor out there and the other one that does support Win8 already shows DPC latency to be high too kinda makes you think something doesnt seem right
 
dnottis said:
my world view of Win8 having high DPC latency?

welcome to the internet newb -
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclie...pw.r_qf.&fp=bf525e541b623bda&biw=1680&bih=925
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No, your world-view that Microsoft would lean on a developer to change their program just to make Win 8 look good. Why would the developer go along with that? It's a free program so it's not like Microsoft is going to block him from making it or something. Plus the developer themselves said it doesn't work with Win 8 - so you believe that Microsoft would lean on them, that they would change the program just to make Microsoft happy (even though someone would undoubtedly realize they had jiggered the results), and they are going to lie about it?

You don't think it's a little suspicious that the baseline is exactly 1ms for everyone?
 
dnottis said:
my world view of Win8 having high DPC latency?

welcome to the internet newb -
https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclie...pw.r_qf.&fp=bf525e541b623bda&biw=1680&bih=925
Click to expand...
Attempting to support your position by posting a link to a page full of meaningless google results while simultaneously calling someone a "newb." I suppose it's possible for you to be more pitiful but I don't see how.

Those search results all refer to the same few programs used to measure DPC latency. The author of the most popular one, DPC Latency Checker, specifically cautions on his website that the program will return incorrect results in Windows 8, not due to any increase in DPC latency in Windows 8, but "because the implementation of kernel timers has changed in Windows 8 which causes a side effect with the measuring algorithm used by the utility." In other words, pretty much all the links you so proudly point to are bleating over false test results they obtained by using a broken tool. Until such time as the current programs are updated to handle the new way Windows 8 presents information they are all useless as measurements of DPC latency in Windows 8.

But wait, there's more! DPC latency is not just a theoretical abstraction. Excessive amounts of it cause tangible problems. For example, I use one of my home PCs as a music playback device. Excessive DPC latency on the order shown by DPC Latency Checker's false results would result in noticeable dropouts and distortions in my music playback. I sure didn't notice any such issues when I was running Windows 7, and I still don't notice any such issues now that I'm running Windows 8. In fact, Windows 8 sounds identical to Windows 7. If indeed Windows 8 has excessive DPC latency, it seems to be a magical kind that has no actual manifestation in the real world.

I'll now let you go back to calling wiser folks than you "newb."
 
I actually do have dpc lactency issues with windows 8. its most apparent when i play league of legends as im warping all over the place when i have 10 ms.

so yeah, its an issue and its really annoying.

other than that, the only other real annoying thing is the shutdown button being too 'far away' ;____; though i just ctrl alt del to shut down now. lol
 
d4nnn said:
I actually do have dpc lactency issues with windows 8. its most apparent when i play league of legends as im warping all over the place when i have 10 ms.

so yeah, its an issue and its really annoying.

other than that, the only other real annoying thing is the shutdown button being too 'far away' ;____; though i just ctrl alt del to shut down now. lol
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Network latency and DPC latency are two different things. Fixing DPC latency won't do anything to cure your network latency issues.
 
Windows 8 is otherwise pretty spiffy. It's both the UI I have a problem with, and how they implemented it ( you *will* use it ). For a variety of reasons previously outlined.

Heck, I'm not even apposed to the windows store concept; that's been a long time coming. In fact, I'm hopeful the concept makes it's way into the corporate world, so all I have to do as an administrator is define workstation groups, application groups, and set policies to see that the apps are installed automatically. That'd be pretty awesome.

But that UI and the changes it brings...ya, I'm looking forward to Windows9: We're sorry edition.
 
Eman D. Rahym said:
Attempting to support your position by posting a link to a page full of meaningless google results while simultaneously calling someone a "newb." I suppose it's possible for you to be more pitiful but I don't see how.

Those search results all refer to the same few programs used to measure DPC latency. The author of the most popular one, DPC Latency Checker, specifically cautions on his website that the program will return incorrect results in Windows 8, not due to any increase in DPC latency in Windows 8, but "because the implementation of kernel timers has changed in Windows 8 which causes a side effect with the measuring algorithm used by the utility." In other words, pretty much all the links you so proudly point to are bleating over false test results they obtained by using a broken tool. Until such time as the current programs are updated to handle the new way Windows 8 presents information they are all useless as measurements of DPC latency in Windows 8.

But wait, there's more! DPC latency is not just a theoretical abstraction. Excessive amounts of it cause tangible problems. For example, I use one of my home PCs as a music playback device. Excessive DPC latency on the order shown by DPC Latency Checker's false results would result in noticeable dropouts and distortions in my music playback. I sure didn't notice any such issues when I was running Windows 7, and I still don't notice any such issues now that I'm running Windows 8. In fact, Windows 8 sounds identical to Windows 7. If indeed Windows 8 has excessive DPC latency, it seems to be a magical kind that has no actual manifestation in the real world.

I'll now let you go back to calling wiser folks than you "newb."
Click to expand...

its not just one app. There are multiple latency checkers and some officially support Windows 8. You can hang your hat on the one app that will be conveniently updated to show you latency is lower if you want.

Yes, Windows 8 has latency issues. The internet knows, everyone knows. You can deny it and wait for the one app that will get "fixed". Im sure that will be a magical day for you. :rolleyes:
 
dnottis said:
its not just one app. There are multiple latency checkers and some officially support Windows 8. You can hang your hat on the one app that will be conveniently updated to show you latency is lower if you want.

Yes, Windows 8 has latency issues. The internet knows, everyone knows. You can deny it and wait for the one app that will get "fixed". Im sure that will be a magical day for you. :rolleyes:
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Did you not even read Eman's post? ALL the programs for measuring DPC latency would be broken by that bug. There's a difference between them running on Windows 8 and them working properly. Because I haven't heard an outcry of people's audio not working properly AND because it's a solid fact that there is a change in Windows affecting measurements, I'm going to go ahead and say that this myth is busted.

If the software authors (particularly the one who noticed the difference) update their software and they still detect DPC issues then we can say something is up.
 
Veilrap said:
Did you not even read Eman's post? ALL the programs for measuring DPC latency would be broken by that bug. There's a difference between them running on Windows 8 and them working properly. Because I haven't heard an outcry of people's audio not working properly AND because it's a solid fact that there is a change in Windows affecting measurements, I'm going to go ahead and say that this myth is busted.

If the software authors (particularly the one who noticed the difference) update their software and they still detect DPC issues then we can say something is up.
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Really? Did you read my post? Let me help.... DPClatencymon SUPPORTS WINDOWS 8.


http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_os

Supported Operating Systems
Windows 8 Consumer Preview <<<
Windows 7 32 bit editions
Windows 7 x64 editions
Windows 2008 Server 32 bit editions
Windows 2008 Server x64 editions
Windows Vista 32 bit editions
Windows Vista x64 editions


..and on my machine running Win8 CP still, latency is still high!!!!!! Almost the same as RTM.
 
XOR != OR said:
Windows 8 is otherwise pretty spiffy. It's both the UI I have a problem with, and how they implemented it ( you *will* use it ).
Click to expand...

Hey look, another person who seemingly hasn't used Windows 8 and is bashing on it!


I literally haven't even SEEN the metro screen in the weeks it's been since I installed Win8 RTM except for the few times i actually meant to go into it to show it to someone.
 
dnottis said:
Really? Did you read my post? Let me help.... DPClatencymon SUPPORTS WINDOWS 8.

http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon_os

Supported Operating Systems
Windows 8 Consumer Preview <<<
Windows 7 32 bit editions
Windows 7 x64 editions
Windows 2008 Server 32 bit editions
Windows 2008 Server x64 editions
Windows Vista 32 bit editions
Windows Vista x64 editions


..and on my machine running Win8 CP still, latency is still high!!!!!! Almost the same as RTM.
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You didn't quote the whole website. On the website you linked, which I HAVE read, it specifically says that it RUNS on those operating systems. If you read my previous post I informed you that this does not mean that the algorithm has been updated to account for the differences between Windows 8 and 7. It's extremely likely that the same reporting bug that exists in DPC Latency Checker exists in DPClatencymon. Especially if the results of the buggy DPC Latency Checker match that of DPClatencymon.
 
AMD T-type said:
I literally haven't even SEEN the metro screen in the weeks it's been since I installed Win8 RTM except for the few times i actually meant to go into it to show it to someone.
Click to expand...

Really? I see it a lot. I have my Twitter client, stocks, calendar, weather and some other apps that show me all the info I want on that screen. Well, except for the CLOCK! Dammit, I want a clock there all the time. Just in the corner would be nice. I think that was the first thing I noticed about Metro. In desktop, it sits in the corner. The taskbar also shows me what programs were updated (IM's, etc.) by flashing the icon. I'm sure a third party app will bring my clock back. But, that gets me....

I like the Metro screen for the information that it gives me and a few great applications. Desktop is where I do most of my work, though.
 
Veilrap said:
You didn't quote the whole website. On the website you linked, which I HAVE read, it specifically says that it RUNS on those operating systems. If you read my previous post I informed you that this does not mean that the algorithm has been updated to account for the differences between Windows 8 and 7. It's extremely likely that the same reporting bug that exists in DPC Latency Checker exists in DPClatencymon. Especially if the results of the buggy DPC Latency Checker match that of DPClatencymon.
Click to expand...

There's no point to these tools to test Windows 8 at this time. Even LatencyMon only claims to RUN and not actually work properly as you point out on Windows 8 Consumer Preview which is pointless and DPC Latency Checker flat out says while it runs in 8 doesn't work.

There's nothing that this tools that means anything about Windows 8 at this time. No matter what you'd have to go back and check these results when the tools actually claim to have correct support and support the RTM.
 
heatlesssun said:
There's no point to these tools to test Windows 8 at this time. Even LatencyMon only claims to RUN and not actually work properly as you point out on Windows 8 Consumer Preview which is pointless and DPC Latency Checker flat out says while it runs in 8 doesn't work.

There's nothing that this tools that means anything about Windows 8 at this time. No matter what you'd have to go back and check these results when the tools actually claim to have correct support and support the RTM.
Click to expand...

you just don't like the fact it shows there are issues. DPC latencymon shows its supported in Windows 8. You are under the mis-belief there is something with the program that still needs to be fixed. Hang your hat on false hopes, its cool.
 
dnottis said:
you just don't like the fact it shows there are issues. DPC latencymon shows its supported in Windows 8. You are under the mis-belief there is something with the program that still needs to be fixed. Hang your hat on false hopes, its cool.
Click to expand...

I don't like or dislike what these tools report under Windows 8, it looks like they are broken under Windows 8. And DPC Latencymon only says that it runs Windows 8 Consumer Preview, an OS that no one will ever run in a production fashion.
 
dnottis said:
you just don't like the fact it shows there are issues. DPC latencymon shows its supported in Windows 8. You are under the mis-belief there is something with the program that still needs to be fixed. Hang your hat on false hopes, its cool.
Click to expand...
Actually, the DPC LatencyMon site shows that it "runs" under Windows 8 CP. "Running" is a very different thing from "supported." For example, DPC Latency Checker "runs" on Windows 8 as well. However, the author of that application states candidly that at present it is not supported on Windows 8 and will give false results.

This little tempest in a teapot is an example of why, whenever Microsoft releases a new version of Windows, there is always a gap of two or three months after RTM and before GA. The delay is so that third parties can work with the final Windows bits to get their individual programs up to speed with the new way of doing things.

You are the one under the "mis-belief" there is something wrong with Windows 8 that still needs to be fixed. You are the one hanging your hat on false hopes. For myself, I'll start worrying about excessive DPC latency on my machine if I ever start hearing crackling and dropouts while playing music.
 
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