Building Photoshop computer...

macnmore

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What MB & CPU would be a good fit for the workload? Do I need 2 cores? Dual or Quad core? I haven't built a pc in several years and I've not stayed up to date with what all the options are.
 
Moved to General Hardware, you'll have better luck here with a build questions thread :)
 
1. Is photoshop the main purpose of this upgrade? Will you be doing other stuff on this pc such as gaming?

2. What is your budget on this upgrade?

3. What's your current setup? Will you be reusing any parts from your current build? Or, is this a complete build from scratch?
 
Ive never had any problems with photoshop lagging or anything on my comp, i thought it was a pretty lightweight program to run?
 
Quad-core will help, but dual-core will be enough. For Photoshop work, I recommend mainly that you get tons of RAM. I recommend 8GB for a dual-channel system or 12GB for a 3-channel system. My roommate uses Photoshop with 4GB (3.5GB recognized) and he's always running low on memory.
 
http://hardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1349433

Generally quad cores are best for multimedia, so the more cores the better. If it's just photoshop though, a cheap dual core should be more than enough.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115206
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037

The second has double the L2 cache, a slightly higher clock speed, and most likely the ability to overclock much farther. If you're not so into speed then the lower priced one is fine.
 
Ive never had any problems with photoshop lagging or anything on my comp, i thought it was a pretty lightweight program to run?

All depends on what type of photoshop work you are doing.
Batch processing a lot of images requires a fast machine and fast hard drives.

Quad-core will help, but dual-core will be enough. For Photoshop work, I recommend mainly that you get tons of RAM. I recommend 8GB for a dual-channel system or 12GB for a 3-channel system. My roommate uses Photoshop with 4GB (3.5GB recognized) and he's always running low on memory.

What type of work is he doing?

Vista 64bit if you are using Photoshop CS4. It will install both the 32bit and 64bit executables since you may need to use 32bit if a 3rd party plug-in doesn't offer 64bit versions.

Dual Core is fine but may as well get a quad core, i7 if in the budget since they are coming down in price.
 
The only things I'll use from my existing setup are the case and HD's. It will be used 99% for Photoshop. I don't game, so I can't see myself using this for any other purpose. When you say quad core, are you talking about 1 CPU split 4 ways, or 4 CPU's? I know I'll need tons of memory, but figured I needed to first settle on a MB and proc(s), then will figure out the memory. Maybe I'm going about this backwards??? Will all MB's hold up to 12GB RAM? My budget is $500 or so. Any suggestions I can start researching would be appreciated.
 
The only things I'll use from my existing setup are the case and HD's. It will be used 99% for Photoshop. I don't game, so I can't see myself using this for any other purpose. When you say quad core, are you talking about 1 CPU split 4 ways, or 4 CPU's? I know I'll need tons of memory, but figured I needed to first settle on a MB and proc(s), then will figure out the memory. Maybe I'm going about this backwards??? Will all MB's hold up to 12GB RAM? My budget is $500 or so. Any suggestions I can start researching would be appreciated.

A quad core is 1 CPU with 4 cores inside. Mobos handle all different configurations of memory, some max out at 4, some at 8, and some at 12 and 16.
If you have a budget of $500 for your upgrade, you need to see if your Powersupply unit is compatible with the newer motherboards, otherwise a PSU will be part of that $500 budget.
What type of photoshop work are you doing?


He draws a webcomic and stuff. I think he has a few pictures open at once.

He must have a lot of images open at once, or he may be experiencing a funky bug in photoshop or windows. Sometimes it will give an error such as "Insufficient memory to complete selected task", when clearly there is plenty of available system ram and the swap drive has plenty of space as well. A reboot will usually clean up the system memory and everything will work work fine afterwards, till it happens again.

Most of the photoshop work I do is usually on our older Dell 3.4ghz P4 with 2GB of ram at the office.
I'll be working on 8x10 300DPI documents with 20 or so layers. Works great for that task.

If I have to process a bunch of RAW files or make a web gallery, I'll use my main rig at home since the Dell is just too slow for doing large batch processing.
 
Please answer the questions that Sansari linked to earlier. While an system built around the AMD Phenom II -- which has a few tri-core and even a couple of quad-core processors available for under $200 each -- and at least 8GB of RAM is feasible within the limits of the $500, we would like more details to work with.
 
I suggest going newegg surfing, as they have a nicely organized site, and you can limit it to your specifications. Not all mobo's will hold 12gb, depends on the mobo and the channels.

If it's $500 for the whole computer, you'll definitely want that first processor, or an AMD alternative (blegh =P).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115206
But since it's a core 2, you'll have DDR2 memory which usually has 4 DIMMs. Either you can get a 4 memory slot mobo, and get some 4gb memory cards, or a 6 memory slot mobo, and you only need 2gb memory cards. 6 DIMM mobo's are rarer for dual channel memory though.

Asus, Gigabyte, and EVGA are three brands that are generally exceptional. MSI should be fine too. Don't know about the rest though.

Edit: Oh if you want 12gb of memory you're going to need a 6 DIMM mobo on a $500 budget, as 4gb memory sticks are ridiculous. My bad.

These look pretty good. The Asus has a lot of 1 star reviews though, I believe from bad boards needing to be RMA'd.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131327
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128364
These options are less than excellent because there aren't anywhere near as many 6 DIMM mobo's as there are 4 DIMM mobo's. You'll find a better selection at 8gb of memory.

So: 12gb -> 6 DIMM motherboard. 8gb -> 4 DIMM motherboard
 
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Memory: Newegg doesn't have any DDR2 memory in 6 or 12gb packs, so just buy 2 or 3 sets of 4gb memory.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227420 Great deal but they're thick so it might get too tight.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227199 These should work out well, though they're slightly more expensive and slower than the aforementioned (no rebate).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227269 Certainly the best as of now; really low price and pretty good (low CAS latency, good overclockers)

Is 2.1V safe for such a processor? I wouldn't know.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184 Here's a nice good brand 1.9V memory with fair timings, though not worth the extra money.
 
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These look pretty good. The Asus has a lot of 1 star reviews though, I believe from bad boards needing to be RMA'd.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131327
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128364
These options are less than excellent because there aren't anywhere near as many 6 DIMM mobo's as there are 4 DIMM mobo's. You'll find a better selection at 8gb of memory.

So: 12gb -> 6 DIMM motherboard. 8gb -> 4 DIMM motherboard

DDR3 and DDR2 are not the same. Those two boards above have 2 DDR3 slots and 4 DDR2 slots and you can't mix and match DDR3 and DDR2.

ddr3.jpg
 
1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc ---Photoshop
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included? ---$500
3) Where do you live? ---Southwest Missouri
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific. ---Mobo, CPU, RAM
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model. ---Case and HardDrives(2x WD 80GB SATA-RAID 0 for OS)
6) Will you be overclocking? ---No
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have? ---Dual 22" LCD
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC? ---ASAP
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc. ---RAID, plenty of SATA drives, lots of RAM, Dual or Quad core.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license? ---Yes

I won't be doing much batch processing in Photoshop, but might if it can improve my workflow. I use Photoshop for photo editing(Photography). If I find a Mobo or CPU I like, how can I tell what it's compatible with? Thanks for the links so far.
 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103289 $59 processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227269 x2 = $72 8gb memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188036 $90 motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823126041 $25 Key & Mouse
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151187 $25 DVD burner/player
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139003 $60 PSU (can be lower)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836150037 $10 speakers
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009158 $130 monitor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162019 OPTIONAL $30 video card
Total: $471-501
Someone wanna proofread to see if it's good?

Hmm. There's not a single AMD mobo that has 6 DIMMs (on newegg at least). That means either go intel (more expensive but I prefer it) or go 4gb sticks (way more expensive). Either way it's above your $500 budget, so I suggest sticking to 8gb of memory.
I'm assuming no OC'ing, so only 1 case fan won't kill you?
Monitor?
 
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Out of curiosity, what is your current build? What's the spec of it? is it an Intel P4 cpu computer or an AMD Athlon 64 cpu computer?
 
Go with this combination:

$201 - AMD Phenom II X4 920 & OCZ Vista Upgrade 2x2GB DDR2 800 combo deal (free shipping on both)
$45 - OCZ Vista Upgrade 2x2GB DDR2 800 dual-channel kit (free shipping; second pair)
$110 - Gigabyte GA-MA790X-UD4P
$40 - PowerColor HD3650 (free shipping)
$25 - Samsung SH-S223B SATA DVD burner
$60 - Corsair CX400 400W PSU (free shipping & $10 mail-in rebate)
=====
$482 - Subtotal (not including shipping, taxes, or rebates)

This is one such possibility; there are countless other ways to approach this build. I chose these parts on the assumption that you wouldn't receive any discount for purchasing a second, identical set of RAM and that you have no intentions of overclocking anything. You can also consider the Phenom II X3 720 if you believe that you have no need for the quad-core.

The board that I selected can support up to 16GB of RAM, but considering the absurd price of 4GB DDR2 RAM sticks (compared to the price of 2GB sticks and 2x2GB kits), I don't believe that they're worth the added costs. If you can afford to, however, you should consider picking up a RAM Disk (the description of which is listed in the quote below). The board doesn't come with any onboard GPU, so I included a cheap video card with two DVI ports.

Personally, I believe that you should consider getting a new hard drive. One of the Western Digital 640GB hard drives can perform almost as well as your RAID 0 configuration yet it offers far more available space. But I digress.

As promised, what RAM Disk does:

In other words, as I said, the cost of the devices + the cost of populating them becomes absolutely ridiculous. Grab two Velociraptors and have fun... or even a handful of SSD drives and RAID 'em together. The overall price-to-performance ratio will blow these iRAM devices clear off the planet surface...

Sad, really, because I've been a proponent of actual RAMdisks for decades now. Hell, I used to boot my Amiga 500 off a RAMdisk, so I've seen pretty much every attempt at making such devices as the iRAM that have appeared, and they all suck, period. They just can't do the job adequately and keep the price-to-performance ratio anywhere near a reasonable level.

I built a RAID 0 box for a small image studio 2 weeks ago, a new startup here in Vegas that is making waves. They wanted a "demo" workstation to see what's possible for processing as they don't want to create a massive server-type situation in the office, but 3-4 workstations that are equal in performance and then just using simple file sharing as required. Very simple setup in terms of the network, but the workstation I built used 2 300GB Velociraptors (tried to sell 'em on SSD but the amount of data they're dealing with wouldn't be practical - again, a price-to-performance and ROI issue).

The hard part was getting them to spring for 16GB of RAM because of the cost, but a few weeks ago I saw that sale for 4 4GB sticks of RAM for about $450 and made a few phone calls and snagged a similar deal.

I set up Photoshop CS3 for 'em (their legit retail copy) on Vista Business x64. They started messing around with it, loading some rather large TIFF files in excess of 150MB a pop, several at a time, performing some basic scripted actions on 'em, blurs, filters, etc. Using the Velociraptors in RAID 0 meant very snappy and consistent performance, as well as having 16GB of RAM too. Also, it's a Q6600 based machine running rock solid at 3 GHz.

They were very pleased with the performance at that point, but I had a surprise for 'em. ;)

I asked if I could have 20 mins 'alone' with the workstation to "rewire it" as Tim Allen might say. That consisted of grabbing a trial version of SuperSpeed Software's RamDisk Plus 9 and installing it, doing the simple configuration, and then creating a 10GB RAMdisk and told Photoshop "Ok, you want a scratch disk? Here, try this on for size."

After I did some tests of my own using the same scripts they'd done earlier, boy... I tell ya. You haven't lived till you see 225MB TIFF files literally snap onscreen in the blink of an eye, multiple huge TIFFs with resolutions like 5000x5000 and even higher. That's what's possible with RAMdisks, because even Velociraptors in RAID 0 pumping out something like 280MB/s sustained pales to the close to 5GB a second in bandwidth of that RAMdisk.

I told 'em to come back in and rerun their test scripts.

Jaws hit the floor, folks. Well, not quite but figuratively speaking, at least.

They asked what I'd done, I told them I put the scratch disk in RAM where it should be if you have the RAM to make it happen, and they bought 4 licenses of RamDisk Plus 10 mins later, and I got a signed contract to construct 3 more workstations identical to that one top to bottom and also be their "geek" if any issues come up.

It was a very good week... ;)
 
Although an Intel socket 775 is reaching its end of life, Adobe Photoshop does favor an Intel CPU as oppose to an AMD cpu. A high clocked Intel dual core cpu will outpeform an AMD X3 720BE triple core cpu in Photoshop CS4. Here is an under $500 Intel dual core build that should spank. Definitely perform waay better than OP current setup. Whatever current setup he has now.

CPU/RAM - Intel Core 2 E7500 2.93ghz + OCZ Gold 8GB DDR2 800 both for $223
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.196398

MOBO - GIGABYTE GA-EP43-UD3L LGA 775 Intel P43 for $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128380

PSU/VIDEO CARD - Antec EA380 + XFX Radeon HD 4350 1GB both for $83
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.196630

HDD - Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache for $75 w/free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319

OPTICAL - Samsung 22X DVD Burner for $25
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151187

Total: $486 before shipping & taxes.

I would personally go with a Phenom II X4 quad build though for $500 budget.
 
Definitely get RAMDisk and put your PS scratch disk on it. Either tiraides or HG's build would work great. No comment on Sansari's build -- sorry, I don't feel like clicking on a dozen links. Note that HG's build uses the UD3L, which doesn't have RAID onboard. If you need onboard RAID, you'll want to move up to the UD3R or higher. Definitely pick up that HDD HG listed -- probably much faster than your RAID0 array of 80GB drives. ;)
 
This Quad Phenom II X4 940 build looks pretty good for $508

MOBO/CPU - Asus M4A78-EM AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G + AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0ghz Quad both for $265
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.198648

RAM - OCZ Gold 8GB DDR2 800 for $93 w/free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227290

HDD - WD6401AALS 640GB for $75 w/free shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136319

OPTICAL - Ssmsung 22X Sata DVD Burner for $25
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151187

PSU - Antec Earthwatts EA380 for $50
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371005


Total: $508 before shipping & taxes

The Asus mobo has RAID SATA RAID 0/1/10 and you can run dual monitors off the 780G AMD chipset 1 x VGA and other 1 x DVI. Also has an HDMI out.
 
Current CPU is a 2.8 P4...from 4-5 years ago.
So far all the Mobo's have been AMD proc's. Is that just cause they are cheaper, or just better? I'm sure this is debatable, but if I can get equal performance out of cheaper hardware, I will.
 
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Intel's Socket 775 processors and motherboards have reached EOL status. Very few, if any, new processors and board are going to be released within the 12 months, so it's essentially a dead end.

We're recommending the newer AMD Phenom II processors because they can perform as well as the high-end Core 2 Duo and the low-end Core 2 Quad processors and they cost comparatively less. (AMD currently has nothing that can compete with Intel's Core i7 platform, and the Core 2 Quad Q9550/Q9650 can outperform anything AMD has to offer.) There are also some AM2+ motherboards that can support the Phenom II processors (often with a BIOS update), which enables some AMD users to perform a simple CPU upgrade instead of a massive overhaul.

For longevity's sake, I recommend going with an AMD Phenom II quad-core processor and a board that can support the Phenom II right out of the box. If you can afford to, either now or at some point in the future, you should also look at getting a RAM Disk for your extra RAM.
 
Please answer the questions that Sansari linked to earlier. While an system built around the AMD Phenom II -- which has a few tri-core and even a couple of quad-core processors available for under $200 each -- and at least 8GB of RAM is feasible within the limits of the $500, we would like more details to work with.

Don't forget about the Phenom II 550 which is a dual core Phenom.

In any case Photoshop doesn't make the best usage of quad core CPUs. From what I understand it benefits heavily from dual core CPUs (it has always been SMP friendly) but the scaling with additional cores seems poor from what I understand.

Still I advocate getting a quad core. Why? "Why not?" seems to be the appropriate answer. The quad cores are so cheap these days there is no reason not to get one.
 
What version of photoshop are you using? How big are the images are you working with in terms of resolution and filesize, and how many at a time.
 
So here's what I'm looking at so far. Please tell me if this combo is inadequate:
Mobo & CPU combo http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.198627
RAM x2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227298 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227419
This would leave me plenty of $$ to get a new power supply and better HD. Thanks for all the suggestions so far. Greatly appreciated.

Thats a Phenom I combo, not good at all -- you want Phenom II -- yes, there's a HUGE difference in performance between the two. Not all builds listed were AMD, HG also posted an Intel build. Check out the builds HardwareGuru and tiraides listed out for you above -- they already have a new PSU and HDD listed near your listed budget. No need to pay $60 for DDR2 RAM when you get similar performance out of $45 kits. Also, remember that rebates are never guaranteed, and you still have to pay the upfront cost (and tax, if applicable).

I agree with Dan, a quadcore would probably be best for you, if you can afford one. My thought process on this is as follows... you're currently using a P4 system, so your upgrades are far inbetween; therefore, if you get a quadcore now, you'll be set for quite a while, and a couple new versions of photoshop. also, photoshop should improve their multi-core support in future versions, since they shouldn't simply ignore the other available cores in newer systems.

Oh, and pls answer Keiichi's questions.
 
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The photos are shot in RAW format then converted to TIF at around 112MB per image. I usually have 8-12 photos loaded into CS4 at once. I also use LightRoom in my workflow. LightRoom seems to run fine on my laptop, which is a standard Dell Vostro 1710. CS4 kills the laptop. Especially loading the images into CS4. Ok, so Phenom II is what I'm looking for or any Quad-Core Intel?
 
Looking through HardwareGuru's post, that probably is exactly what I need. I'll have to read up on those components a little. Thanks for the find.
 
It depends, you'll want lots of ram, at least 2GBs (and a 64-bit OS if you want to realistically expand.) You'll also want a second physical drive as your scratch. Depending on how much of your work is based on using filters and batches, you might be able to get away with a speedy dual core, although with the new Phenom IIs going quad core is almost a no brainer.

Here's some tips to speed up the Vostro, make sure it's maxed out on ram, use a 7200rpm or even an SSD drive, and change the power settings to full power.
 
An Intel Quad Core build

$39.99 - GIGABYTE GV-R435OC-512I Radeon HD 4350 512MB
$59.99 - CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX 400W ATX12V V2.2
$93.98 ($46.99 ea) - 2 x CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 - (Get $10 with promocode "MEMORYSALE15")
$314.98 - Core2 Quad q9400 + BIOSTAR TForce TP45HP LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

Total (Shipped) - $507.91
 
bigwoolys build on the Intel Q9400 2.66ghz build would perform slightly better than a AMD Phenom II X4 3.0ghz Deneb cpu. But, of course it does cost more also. Plus, I feel you should get a WD 640GB 32MB cache now. 2 x 80gb is just too small and the performance of those drives do not compare to the performance of the new Sata II drives. I agree with tiraides on a Phenom II X4 quad because although it maybe a little slower in comparison to a Intel Q9400 cpu, it's cheaper and can include a WD 640GB hardddrive in your budget. This will give you an overall balanced PC for photoshop. Plus, as tiraides mentioned earlier, you can upgrade down the road for future AMD AM3 socket cpus. An Intel socket 775 build, your pretty much stuck with the Core 2 Quads/Core 2 Duo cpus that they offering now. The Biostar P45 chipset mobo that bigwooly mentioned also supports only a max 8GB of DDR2 ram. Whereas, the the AMD boards that tiraides and I listed support up to 16GB. One things for sure though, you will see an enormous upgrade from your single core 2.8ghz P4 cpu.
 
To reiterate everything that was said:

  • No matter what you build for $500, it will be faster than the quickest Pentium 4 (extreme edition) or your laptop.
  • You should get one of the Western Digital Caviar Black drives (only 10% slower than last gen. raptor drives).
  • RAMdrives kick ass.

Personally, I'd go with HardwareGuru's build/tirades/AMD build:

Motherboard is AMD socket AM2+/AM3 and based on 780 chipset, so it will most likely support all future CPU offerings by AMD.
If you wanted to buy an LGA 775 style processor (C2D or Qxxx), LGA 775 is dead. No more processors for the socket, no more chipsets. Granted, some of the Qxxx and E8xxx series give Deneb a good thrashing, but... just sucky to have to buy a new motherboard as well to upgrade. That $100 spent buying a motherboard could be placed towards a better CPU, memory, GPU, or a nice steak dinner.

Just my opinion, of course.
;)
 
The Biostar P45 chipset mobo that bigwooly mentioned also supports only a max 8GB of DDR2 ram. Whereas, the the AMD boards that tiraides and I listed support up to 16GB.

I noticed that and it didn't seem right so a quick check on the manfactuers website shows the newegg data to be incorrect that biostar board does infact support 16gb of ram

http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en-us/t-series/content.php?S_ID=366

And if you feel that he needs the better perorming hard disc he could drop down to this build and stay intel. The only reason i came back with this type of reply is that i know that photoshop favors the intel chips.

$209.98 - q8400 + OCZ Vista Ugrade 4gb (2x2)
$44.99 - OCZ Vista Upgrade 4gb (2x2)
$89.99 - MSI P45 Neo-F LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

$74.99
($10 off promo code "EMCLTLN34") - WD 640GB AALS

New Total (Shipped) - $507.52
 
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