Building an all-purpose rig. Looking for tips/advice.

S

SmUtTnY

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Oct 17, 2004
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Looking for in-depth suggestions and some help on the direction I should take. Money isn't an object, I've been saving for a while. All help is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Haven't been around high-end rigs in maybe 3 or 4 years. My current computer is nothing to even mention, I utilize it for Photoshop, Counter-Strike and some MMO's that arent necessarily graphic intensive, but can be at highest settings. I'm looking to build something to last me for the next 2 to 3 years at least, with a good tune-up after that time, and last a bit more perhaps.

Purposes: Running multiple clients of Photoshop, Video Editing Programs (Adobe After Effects, Sony Vegas, Final Cut Pro, etc.), 2 or 3 clients of an MMO called Lineage 2, which at high end with HDR Rendering and all can be a bit stressful, but it's nothing insane. I just want the potential to handle the insane.

The basis I'm building off of is as follows:

CPU - Intel Q6600 Kentsfield [LINK]

VIDEO CARD - To be decided on upon myself and a friend of mine. Between this ATI Card, or this NVidia card.

RAM - Haven't decided yet, I've got a knowledge, I'm just not up on what's top of the line in 2008. Looking for 2 x 2GB.

HDD - Western Digital Raptor 300GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0 [LINK]

MOTHERBOARD - Biostar TPower I45 Intel P45 Motherboard [LINK]

POWER SUPPLY - Looking for recommendations.

CASE - Already got one. Nice ThermalTake Full-ATX one.

CD/DVD Burner Combo Drives - Open to all suggestions.

COOLING - This is important. Looking for a water cooling setup for my processor AND video card if it's necessary. In terms of fans, looking for the sort that will blow air out of my tower to dissipate all heat out. I haven't ever had water cooling, so be patient with me on all that :(

MISC. - Looking for some quick fixes for wire management to help air-flow, and any links to reliable LED Lighting sites for within the case.

Thanks for every bti of help I get in advance. Appreciate it all.

:)
 
What size monitor do you have? You can typically find the HD4870 for around $240AR, so I'd definately go with that instead of the 98GTX -- better bang for your buck.

No need for "top of the line" RAM with these Intel Core2 platforms. Any set of DDR2-800 CL5 will do fine for the Q6600. However, since you plan on keeping this system for around 4+ yrs and money is no object, you should step up to the Q9450 or Q9550 (whichever is cheaper) if any of those apps you mentioned make use of (now or in the future) SSE4.1, which I'm pretty sure they do or will. If and when they do so, it will be up to 15% faster than the Q6600. Also, its 45nm so it consumes less power and runs cooler (and both have the same OC threshold, if you planned on OC'ing).

Though, if you switch to the Q9450, you should also switch to some G.Skill DDR2-1000 RAM instead, in case you get the urge to OC. If not, then DDR2-800 is fine. You won't notice a difference between CL4 and CL5, unless you're running benchmarks (and even then, the difference is negligible), so don't pay a huge price premium for lower latency.

/*------------- <cut n paste> -------------*/
Formulas for Intel platform @ 1:1 settings: (base FSB speed is SDR, or single data rate)
c × [Base FSB speed] = CPU Clock speed (c = CPU Multiplier)
2 × [Base FSB speed] = RAM speed (DDR: double data rate)
4 × [Base FSB speed] = Effective FSB speed (QDR: quad data rate)

On Intel platforms, running the RAM higher than a 1:1 ratio with the CPU is, for the most part, useless, so don't bother trying to do so. If the BIOS does it for you, just let it. All you need is a 1:1 config, though. Here's some possible clock speeds (as always with OC'ing, your results will vary):

Q6600: 9 × 266 = 2.4Ghz, DDR2-533 << STOCK speeds
Q6600: 9 × 333 = 3.0Ghz, DDR2-667 << Nice OC
Q6600: 9 × 378 = 3.4Ghz, DDR2-756 << Good OC, near max for B3 stepping w/ good air cooling
Q6600: 9 × 400 = 3.6Ghz, DDR2-800 << Great OC, near max for G0 stepping w/ good air cooling

Q9450: 8 × 333 = 2.6Ghz, DDR2-667 << STOCK speeds
Q9450: 8 × 400 = 3.2Ghz, DDR2-800 << Good OC
Q9450: 8 × 450 = 3.6Ghz, DDR2-900 << Great OC, near max w/ good air cooling
Q9450: 8 × 500 = 4.0Ghz, DDR2-1000 << Nearly impossible on air

Q9550: 8.5 × 333 = 2.8Ghz, DDR2-667 << STOCK speeds
Q9550: 8.5 × 400 = 3.4Ghz, DDR2-800 << Good OC
Q9550: 8.5 × 425 = 3.6Ghz, DDR2-850 << Great OC, near max w/ good air cooling
Q9550: 8.5 × 500 = 4.2Ghz, DDR2-1000 << Nearly impossible
/*------------- </cut n paste> -------------*/

For a motherboard, go with a P45, which replaced P35. Its main improvement is PCI-E2.0 and better Crossfire support. X38 is also good once you reach a certain pricepoint, and it has dual 16x Crossfire. Though, you only need Crossfire if you're doing a lot of 3D rendering on a HUGE display (1920x1080 or higher).

This quote may be old, but if so, Danny can post an updated version, lol:
Danny Bui said:
Pretty much. The only difference between the P43 and the P45 chipset is that the P45 chipset has support for Crossfire. If you're not planning on a Crossfire setup, a P43 motherboard will be a good choice.

Some motherboard recommendations:
Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L Intel P43 Motherboard - $95
MSI P45 Neo3-FR Intel P45 Motherboard - $120
Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R Intel P45 Motherboard - $135
Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 Motherboard - $150
DFI Lanparty DK X38-T2R Intel X38 Motherboard - $180
Asus P5E Deluxe Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4 Intel X48 Motherboard - $225

Just to help you out: All of these motherboards have PCI-E 2.0 which may be useful for future GPU upgrades. If you don't need RAID, more than 6 SATA ports and only need semi-decent overclocking, check out the DS3L. If you need 8 SATA ports, RAID, 4 PCI slots, and legacy ports, then get the Neo3-Fr. If you don't need more than 6 SATA ports but want RAID, firewire, a second PCI-E x16 port, a second gigabit port, support for 16GB of RAM, optional eSATA, x8/x8 Crossfire, and high overclocks, then get the DS3R. If you like the DS3R but need 8 SATA ports, want an onboard pre-installed fast booting Linux setup, only need support for 8GB of RAM and don't need a second gigabit port, get the Asus P5Q Pro. If you want Crossfire with full x16/x16 bandwidth, get the Lanparty DK X38. Do note that the Asus website can be slow sometimes.
Click to expand...

As for the PSU, the best bang for buck deal right now is the Corsair 750W for $110 w/ $20MIR either from buy.com, provantage.com or newegg.com (if you have the promo code).

Samsung optical drives are quiet, as are Asus. Pioneer's are usually good, and Lite-Ons are cheap but loud.

What model case is that?
 
enginurd said:
This quote may be old, but if so, Danny can post an updated version, lol:
Click to expand...
LOL!.

Slightly updated version:
Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L Intel P43 Motherboard - $90
MSI P45 Neo3-FR Intel P45 Motherboard - $112
Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R Intel P45 Motherboard - $128
Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 Motherboard - $140
Biostar TPower I45 Intel P45 Motherboard - $150
DFI Lanparty DK X38-T2R Intel X38 Motherboard - $180
Asus P5E Deluxe Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
DFI Lanparty DK X48-T2R Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4 Intel X48 Motherboard - $225

Just to help you out: All of these motherboards have PCI-E 2.0 which may be useful for future GPU upgrades. If you don't need RAID, more than 6 SATA ports and only need semi-decent overclocking, check out the DS3L. If you need 8 SATA ports, RAID, 4 PCI slots, and legacy ports, then get the Neo3-Fr. If you don't need more than 6 SATA ports but want RAID, firewire, a second PCI-E x16 port, a second gigabit port, support for 16GB of RAM, optional eSATA, x8/x8 Crossfire, and great overclocks, then get the DS3R. If you like the DS3R but need 8 SATA ports, want an onboard pre-installed fast booting Linux setup, just support for 8GB of RAM, and don't need a second gigabit port, get the Asus P5Q Pro. If you want a motherboard with excellent overclocking capabilities above all else (feature wise), go with the I45. If you want Crossfire with full x16/x16 bandwidth, get the Lanparty DK X38. If you have cash to burn, need x16/x16 Crossfire, and don't give a damn about getting the most value for your money, get the Asus, DFI, or Gigabyte X48 motherboards. Do note that the Asus website can be slow sometimes.
 
enginurd said:
What model case is that?
Click to expand...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133132

To be honest, a reason I was comfortable in choosing the Q6600 was my 2 best friends having owned the processor in the last few months, and they've overclocked it very well and it's never given them problems, not to mention it is good bang for your buck.

I guess it's sort of a strange nostalgia also, us all running the same processor. I could be caniving and buy a better one and surprise them haha, but I'm a good friend, think I'll stick with it.

Would you or anyone be able to point me in the right direction for tips on setting up a liquid cooling system.

And about thermal paste nowadays....Arctic Silver 5 I presume?
 
Danny Bui said:
LOL!.

Slightly updated version:
Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L Intel P43 Motherboard - $90
MSI P45 Neo3-FR Intel P45 Motherboard - $112
Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R Intel P45 Motherboard - $128
Asus P5Q Pro Intel P45 Motherboard - $140
Biostar TPower I45 Intel P45 Motherboard - $150
DFI Lanparty DK X38-T2R Intel X38 Motherboard - $180
Asus P5E Deluxe Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
DFI Lanparty DK X48-T2R Intel X48 Motherboard - $220
Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4 Intel X48 Motherboard - $225

Just to help you out: All of these motherboards have PCI-E 2.0 which may be useful for future GPU upgrades. If you don't need RAID, more than 6 SATA ports and only need semi-decent overclocking, check out the DS3L. If you need 8 SATA ports, RAID, 4 PCI slots, and legacy ports, then get the Neo3-Fr. If you don't need more than 6 SATA ports but want RAID, firewire, a second PCI-E x16 port, a second gigabit port, support for 16GB of RAM, optional eSATA, x8/x8 Crossfire, and great overclocks, then get the DS3R. If you like the DS3R but need 8 SATA ports, want an onboard pre-installed fast booting Linux setup, just support for 8GB of RAM, and don't need a second gigabit port, get the Asus P5Q Pro. If you want a motherboard with excellent overclocking capabilities above all else (feature wise), go with the I45. If you want Crossfire with full x16/x16 bandwidth, get the Lanparty DK X38. If you have cash to burn, need x16/x16 Crossfire, and don't give a damn about getting the most value for your money, get the Asus, DFI, or Gigabyte X48 motherboards. Do note that the Asus website can be slow sometimes.
Click to expand...
This was EXTREMELY informative. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Based on it all, I'll be going with the Biostar TPower I45 Intel P45 Motherboard. Looks promising, and I'll have a friend of mine OCing the entire system. Taking your word on it's OCing abilities. :)
 
AS5, TX-2, MX-2... all work well.

Yah, I got my Q9450 for $250 from Fry's and sold the "free" board for $30, so it came out to $220 for me, lol. Too bad they don't have that sale anymore.

Head over to the OC'ing & Cooling subforum for water cooling help. IMO, its not worth it unless you're really into it. Core2's OC extremely well on good air that liquid cooling isn't really needed for a good OC anymore, and the use of tower heatsinks has made OC'ing pretty quiet.
 
As for a power supply, I would ONLY consider Corsair at this poinr in time. They definately are the industry leader. I would go for their 750 watt model.

The 4870 is a superior choice in 3d cards. With crossfire being so flexible, you can also always add in another 4870 or a 4850 farther down the road.

I personally think that the velocioraptor is way overpriced, but If you have the cash go for it. If it was my choice, I would buy a Samsung F1 series drive, which are also very fast, for a much lower price.

I use Zip Ties for cable managment =)

Keep in mind with any overclocking, your mileage may vary. In other words, you may not be able to get where other people are.

I second Enginurd's advice of buying a Q9450 or Q9550. You will probably see a reasonable performance increase in workstation applications, due to SSE4.1.

DDR2 is dirt cheap these days. I buy the cheap corsair stuff (which works great), but you may find buying something rated higher will be better for overclocking.

Don't be picky about Optical Drives. I personally have a sony (which I find is loud), but anything from a recognizable brand should do you fine.
 
Rydawg5143 said:
Drop the raptor and grab some Wd6400AAKS drives.
Click to expand...

THAT's what I forgot to mention! When the 150GB raptors came out, I got hooked up with one. While it was a nice speed boost over my other drives at the time, it definitely wasn't a night and day difference for me. My other drives were doing 52MB/s - 60MB/s, while my Raptor was getting around 75MB/s. Once the newer drives came out, the gap closed and I had several 70MB/s drives. Now these new 320GB per platter drives are even faster, at 90MB/s. The new 300GB raptors are only slightly beating that, at 100MB/s. I don't think that tiny advantage is worth the price premium. If you want true speed, pickup a hardware RAID card and at least 3 drives for some RAID5 action instead. Here, check out this thread to give you an idea of how fast drives are:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1284410

Since you do a lot of things that require high speed disk I/O, I'd definitely go for a large RAID5 array, as well as a ton of RAM for some RAMDisk action. ;)
 
enginurd said:
Since you do a lot of things that require high speed disk I/O, I'd definitely go for a large RAID5 array, as well as a ton of RAM for some RAMDisk action. ;)
Click to expand...
The specific HDD setup I am still a bit "iffy" on. But I'm putting in 8 GB's of RAM for sure.
 
Use a program like RAMDisk from SuperSpeed.com and point your photoshop scratch disk to the ramdisk.
 
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