Bon Jovi: Steve Jobs 'Killed' The Music Business

WWCephas

Weaksauce
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
74
All this talk about low fidelity MP3 cracks me up.

Yeah I really miss the scratches and pops of records, or my tapes getting eaten or stretched. 95% of steroes were crap back in the day and you could not afford the nice ones.

It is awesome to carry all your music on a drive the size of my thumbnail, to enjoy whenever and wherever I want with no errors in playback.

I quit buying cd's in the 90's just before mp3 came out because I was tired of the crap they were producing. When Itunes came along I stated buying again, because I had control over what I was getting, and now I spend at least as much as I used to a year on music as I did when I was young. So in my book, Itunes is the only thing keeping the music industry afloat (concerts non-withstanding).
 

BigYoSpeck

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
155
The real issue with iTunes is the fact that you are buying highly compressed, vastly inferior versions of the original product that simply do not withstand the scrutiny of a decent audio system. As such, iTunes is simply not an option as an audiophile.

However, since both major high resolution audio formats have failed, audiophiles have been locked into the lame sounding 16bit CD format. (Sony SACD and DVD-A both bombed) However, the best and only option for better than CD quality is digital downloads. HDTracks.com is starting to catch on and recently released 24/96 versions of Rolling Stones and Who albums that sound spectacular.

Apple is rumored to be negotiating for HD downloads. So for music lovers and audiophiles the trend that iTunes has started will ultimately be a big win.
I agree with the compressed arguement, for me lossless is almost essential and I just won't bother with less than 320kbps MP3.

But 16bit audio is far from lame, it's the loudness war that kills the quality of audio, there are 16bit recordings out there that are mixed and mastered right with the insane concept of dynamics left in that make your ears melt, bumping up to 24bit would be no different when everything is brickwalled into the top few bits and so far as sample rate is concerned, well that's right up there with premium cables in so far as a proving a fool and their money are soon parted.
 

Phatal

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 11, 2004
Messages
130
Bad music that's woefully overpriced is what's killed the industry.
Bingo!

I play in a Blues band with a little classic rock thrown in and people eat it up. Kids will always buy what they're "forced" to listen to by the radio and music industry, but there is a very large population of music fans that have become ignored. There is good music out there, but those that control the market don't seem to care.
 

IvRak

n00b
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
19
Allthough I don't agree at all with everything that Jon says, I think he's onto something in one direction.

Back when I was young, I went out and bought complete albums, and because these where expensive, this happened once a month at most, in reality i probably bought 6-12 albums a year.

Because I did this, i listened to them a lot of times, either on repeat or on shuffle. On most albums, the tunes I didn't like at first turned out to the best of the whole album. Some tunes took 10-20 listens before they showed their true value to me. Many of these tunes had never been played on radio, and I wouldn't know they existed, if I hadn't had to listen through my albums as much as I did.

Today I listen once to a short blib of each song, and if it doesnt catch my ear immediatly, I discard it. This is bad, because I now I miss some great tunes, because they don't get the chance and time they need.

Sometimes I still buy complete albums, and it allways ends up being a song that is not played on radio, and often one I don't much like from the start, that ends up being the greatest tune on the album.

This, I think, is the experience to which Jon is referring.


The rest where he blames Steve Jobs, is a great oversimplification of the problem, which in my view lies more with the record companies focusing on radio hits more than trying to make good albums. The loudness war of recent years is a prime example of where record companies have gone wrong IMHO.
If they had focused on the quality of the whole product instead of trying to make fast hits and fast money, they wouldn't be where they are today.
 

grizzed

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
171
Having grown up in the 80's and being forced to listen to the 'industry approved' artists I say THANKS for killing the Music Business. If Jobs is responsible for killing the business, I'll blame bon jovi for killing MUSIC.
Along with - Air Supply, Chicago, Michal Jackson, The Boss, New Kids, Hair Bands

SO many many crappy groups were forced into the limelight because of that great music business.
 

Eulogy

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
2,215
Having grown up in the 80's and being forced to listen to the 'industry approved' artists I say THANKS for killing the Music Business. If Jobs is responsible for killing the business, I'll blame bon jovi for killing MUSIC.
Along with - Air Supply, Chicago, Michal Jackson, The Boss, New Kids, Hair Bands

SO many many crappy groups were forced into the limelight because of that great music business.
Way to generalize, and be wrong at the same time :). I grant you one internet, as your fail caused some lulz here.
 

OEM

Fully [H]
Joined
Jun 15, 2005
Messages
20,356
I can't stand Steve Jobs and his arrogance, but this is just an absurd claim.
 

SamuraiInBlack

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 10, 2003
Messages
5,720
I stopped buying CDs at retail when I realized if I wanted worthless crap on a circular piece of plastic, I could just stock up on AOL CD's.
 

kmoed

n00b
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
44
Allthough I don't agree at all with everything that Jon says, I think he's onto something in one direction.

Back when I was young, I went out and bought complete albums, and because these where expensive, this happened once a month at most, in reality i probably bought 6-12 albums a year.

Because I did this, i listened to them a lot of times, either on repeat or on shuffle. On most albums, the tunes I didn't like at first turned out to the best of the whole album. Some tunes took 10-20 listens before they showed their true value to me. Many of these tunes had never been played on radio, and I wouldn't know they existed, if I hadn't had to listen through my albums as much as I did.

Today I listen once to a short blib of each song, and if it doesnt catch my ear immediatly, I discard it. This is bad, because I now I miss some great tunes, because they don't get the chance and time they need.

Sometimes I still buy complete albums, and it allways ends up being a song that is not played on radio, and often one I don't much like from the start, that ends up being the greatest tune on the album.

This, I think, is the experience to which Jon is referring.


The rest where he blames Steve Jobs, is a great oversimplification of the problem, which in my view lies more with the record companies focusing on radio hits more than trying to make good albums. The loudness war of recent years is a prime example of where record companies have gone wrong IMHO.
If they had focused on the quality of the whole product instead of trying to make fast hits and fast money, they wouldn't be where they are today.
You nailed it right on the head. That experience is lost. Which is a shame, but the artists and record companies are just as much to blame for that going away.
 

Seventyfive

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Messages
1,347
Translation:

Musicians used to be able to crap out 3 good songs and 12 filler songs and sell that album with some flashy cover art. Now people only pay for the good songs. This is a terrible situation for lazy and talentless hacks everywhere!
 

Saturn_V

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 24, 2008
Messages
1,674
I think, more of what Jovi was thinking was that the whole sit-down-and-listen-to-a-CD-end-to-end experience is long gone, along with browsing at the local shop and just pulling up albums, looking at the jacket and making a decision based on that.
Empire Records was on TV last nite (90s comedy about an indy record store) and I really wondered if I actually missed buying music like that. Spending hours broswing thorough racks, listening stations, all the while getting hammered in the ears by music I didn't like. Hell, I even remember thumbing through LPs and their super-duper album art and we had no clue to what was actually inside (outside the currently aired single)

Don't miss that at all. And I still buy CDs too.
 

Ibanezfoo

Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Messages
776
He forgot the part where you walked out of the record store with your cassette or CD with its fancy artwork, put it in your car stereo, and suffered a near lethal dose of buyers remorse. The contents are now open, you cannot go back into the store and get your money back. The record company and/or the artist tricked you into buying something you thought would be great but instead you wind up with crap music and $15 album artwork. Now you are less likely to go mow more lawns to earn enough money to buy another album, having been tricked already. ;)

I buy more music nowdays that I can actually hear what I'm buying before hand. I could give two craps about the album artwork. And I'm old by todays standards! :D
 

Azhar

Fixing stupid since 1972
Joined
Jan 9, 2001
Messages
18,875
Seems like "a bottle of vodka is [still] lodged in [his] head, [Steve Jobs] gives [him] nightmares, [he] thinks [he's] still in [his] bed. As [he] dream about [music] they won't make [for him] when [he's] dead."
 

SirKronan

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
4,613
I don't think you can point a finger at any one "specific" cause for killing the music industry, an industry still making substantial profits. Perhaps he means the way we purchased and appreciated music albums in the past has died, and that would be partially true. People want instant gratification and can now enjoy music almost instantly by purchasing their albums or songs from the internet. I also like the ability to preview all the songs before buying the album. That protects my wallet, and I for one, appreciate that particular change to the way we get music now.

If an entire album sounds good, I still prefer to go buy the CD, but how often does that happen now? I purchased both Evanescence albums, all three albums by 10 years (the second one was not as good as the first, but their third was amazing, in my opinion.) I have no problem paying for a real CD if it's full of good music, regardless of the genre.

There are advantages and disadvantages to the way we do it now, but technology is in the present and in the future.

Adapt or DIE. :p
 

wtburnette

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
3,581
Steve Jobs helped change the way the industry did business, but it has a long way to go. Songs are still priced too high, catalogs of songs that are available on one service aren't on another, sound quality could be better, etc. The problem with the music industry (like most industries) is that they are beyond greedy. They don't want to make good profits, they want to make grotesque profits. They also don't want to change their business model even when the old model no longer makes any sense at all. I'm looking forward to a day when I can get any song I want, in good fidelity, for a reasonable price, from multiple sources. That day isn't here yet, though Zune Pass actually comes close. There are too many songs/artists that are missing and the price would sell better, or at least be a better value if it was $9.99 a month instead of $14.99 a month. I like the ability to stream any music I want (that they have) without buying it. I really wonder why the service isn't more popular.
 

Methadras

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Messages
6,132
Bon Jovi is an idiot. Steve Jobs saved your career. Stop pumping out crap and you will have a whole new audience to enjoy your 'art'.
 

ryken

2[H]4U
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
3,106
If by "killed the music industry" he means killed the big name profit margins because now everyone can access the music they want instead of having big record companies force bland generic music (read: Bon Jovi) down our throats, then I'd have to agree.
 

LeninGHOLA

Vladimir Hayt
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
18,416
Who the hell is Jon Bon Jovi? Steve Jobs invented digital compression for songs? Don't you pay for music on iTunes, rather than just download masses of MP3's like I used to in the mid-late 90's? Has Bon Jovi heard today's top 40 list? Bon Jovi looks like a weird, eyebrowless freak.
 

ClearM4

2[H]4U
Joined
Oct 5, 2005
Messages
2,320
Impluse buyers are for cell phone contracts now, not music. Move on Bon Jovi.
 

Zarathustra[H]

I Complain about Everything
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Messages
30,004
So Bon Jovi is advocating more or less "judging a book by its cover"? :D


No, Steve Jobs - as much as I love to hate the man - did not kill the music industry.

Nor did pirates.



The music industry killed the music industry. They (you included Mr. Jovi :p ) stopped making music anyone wants to pay for. (Some people might argue that Bon Jovi never made anything worth buying in the first place. I would be one of those people)

End of story.
 

Enduring_Warrior

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
Messages
1,973
I believe this same sentiment is said over and over and over again as new bands come up and old bands fade out. It is a broad generalization and simply untrue.

Well, my last sentence doesn't quite fit. What we both have is an "opinion" and technically ours aren't true or false.

However, I would say that your opinion of today's music "sucking" by "any criteria" is baseless. It has no merit and I would say that the majority of people on this board would agree. There is simply too much music out to listen to, judge, and form an opinion on an entire Decade and/or new Genre.
I do have an example for you based on history.
Go back to 1969. The band Santana plays for the first time at a music festival. They played Soul Sacrifice. That band had two members of what will become Journey and they're contemporary to the Beatles, Jimmy Hendrix, Cream, The Who, Led Zeppelin so on and so forth. It was an era of creativity and music was motivated by something else than profits. It was the reason why music became the wholesome industry it came to be later on. Santana was one more in a sea of talent.
Fast forward to 1999 and the same musician releases SuperNatural. A collaborative album that includes new "artists" as well as old ones. It sweeps in the Grammy Awards and Santana is cherished and worshiped as the next coming of the Messiah.

The only difference?

The musical background that the same Musician was creating in. Ergo, the majority of the music industry.
You can even say that the 1999 Santana sucked compared to the 1969 Santana. Nevertheless when you compare that guy to the rest he kicks all of their asses. That my friend proves that the music industry was sucking then and it has continued to suck. And by industry I mean what's made mainstream.
 

jiminator

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
11,619
music industry has been dead for 90 years with the introduction of the record. Used to be you could actually have a career as a musician and entertaining people. Every city had their singers, bands, symphonies, etc. Now music makes money only for the stars, or rather whoever owns their songs. It is a sad state of affairs but not for the reasons he gives.

I was watching a secret video earlier today that someone took in north korea. There actually was a lady singing on the bus as entertainment for the ride. You would never see that here. That is what has been lost.
 

Uncle

2[H]4U
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Messages
2,194
The music industry killed itself by stifling any kind of creativity. Everything now is cookie cutter, pre-packaged garbage. I turn on the radio now, and I seriously cannot tell one band from the next, they ALL SOUND THE EXACT SAME!
Reason why they extended the copyright. The Industry is controlled by Executives, Bean counters, and shareholders, none whom have any taste in music.Thats why they brain wash and influence kids from an early age of 5 and up. Look at all the shows for kids, nothing but a fashion show. Their all half hour infomercials.
 

mrgstiffler

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Dec 20, 2000
Messages
13,406
The best quote I heard recent was "The music industry killed itself when it became an 'industry'..."
 

Mr. Wolf

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
7,162
Shut up, Jovi. Go make some more awful '80s bubble gum rock, you idiot.
 

Ibanezfoo

Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Messages
776
Shut up, Jovi. Go make some more awful '80s bubble gum rock, you idiot.
Shame that he pulled Sambora along with him... he was actually a good guitar player who wasted his talents on this crap. Made him rich though I guess...
 

fattypants

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
3,284
I was going to come make a snide remark, but it looks like [H] has it covered.

Seriously, though, how blind can he be?
 

phide

Fully [H]
Joined
Jun 11, 2004
Messages
16,695
Used to be you could actually have a career as a musician and entertaining people. Now music makes money only for the stars...
Except that isn't true at all. It's a massively competitive field where many fail, but there are many who haven't attained "star" status yet still quite well for themselves.

I was watching a secret video earlier today that someone took in north korea. There actually was a lady singing on the bus as entertainment for the ride.
That sounds awful. Why would you want that?
 

lostinseganet

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
1,170
Yet the same could be said for the arcade and its library of games. Back in the 80's man arcades were soo much fun! That is why stuff like PAX is so much fun.
 

mustang_steve

c[H]ewbacca
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Messages
10,151
SO Bon Jovi is admitting to producing shit but packaging it nicely? I couldn't agree more....he sucks.
 

duncansil

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
222
"And the beauty of taking your allowance money and making a decision based on the jacket, not knowing what the record sounded like,"

Rather than relying on musical talent and personal taste :D

Seriously, Pandora does a better job than any record label could. This guy is from the dark ages.
 

gathagan

Gawd
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
Messages
677
music industry has been dead for 90 years with the introduction of the record. Used to be you could actually have a career as a musician and entertaining people. Every city had their singers, bands, symphonies, etc. Now music makes money only for the stars, or rather whoever owns their songs. It is a sad state of affairs but not for the reasons he gives.

I was watching a secret video earlier today that someone took in north korea. There actually was a lady singing on the bus as entertainment for the ride. You would never see that here. That is what has been lost.
You make a very good point, but I don't know as I would use the term "dead".

Rather, the dynamics of the music industry has changed since the introduction of recording.

You have to consider that musical careers were very much tied to the wealthy prior to the advent of recording.
Whether symphony or opera, composers worked for wealthy patrons who, in turn, invited friends to recitals so that they could listen.

Other musical genres, like ragtime, country, blues, jazz and gospel were very much the music of the poor.

After Thomas Edison invented the recording process back in the late 1870's, there was now a mechanism to bring music to the masses, especially when coupled with radio in the 1920's.

It's significant to note that some of the earliest recordedings are from those "low class" musical genres.

You don't see the musical scenario you paint coming into the picture until the Swing and Big Band eras of the 20's-40's.

Even then, that type of music was being performed largely for the benefit of those with more disposable income.
The Benny Goodmans of the world would not have had much of a career without all of those G.I.'s home on leave, with money to burn in their pockets.
 

Ashbringer

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
5,522
The MP3 killed the music industry, way back in 1997 or 1998 I think. Steve Jobs brought it back from the dead, as a zombie.
 
Top