Blizzard Doesn't Like Windows 8 Either

pothb said:
So... you want Bethesda games to not have patches to fix their stuff?

Wow.
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No, I want Bethesda games and other devs to release games that work the first time. I dont know about you but I dont like spending 60$ on broken shit.
 
Remember the Metro 2033 DLC that was free for PC but cost $$ on XBL?

Yea, that's why they're weary of Windows 8.
 
Lots of good point being raised already, no need for me to repeat them.

If Microsoft is indeed moving its desktop OS towards a closed environment like what we're seeing in the mobile OS where everything must go through its own app store or call it whatever you like, then that will be VERY bad for PC gaming.

Win 8 fans can defend it all they want, but its a fact that nothing good can ever come out of such closed OS for PC. Nothing.
 
deansmilk said:
No, I want Bethesda games and other devs to release games that work the first time. I dont know about you but I dont like spending 60$ on broken shit.
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Do you really think the devs are afraid of leaving their games unpached? There are so many games out there that remained un-patched, some abandoned after a couple of half-assed patching.

No games can be release in perfect condition, every games need patching. Either you encourage them to patch it or it will be left the way it is at release.
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
Remember the Metro 2033 DLC that was free for PC but cost $$ on XBL?

Yea, that's why they're weary of Windows 8.
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This doesnt make any sense at all. Do you not think that 4A/THQ didnt get any money for MS selling their (4A) free DLC? Money that im sure helped 4A out more, rather then it being free. Do you really think Blizzard would be opposed to making money on dlc if they had the chance? Isnt that what they do? You act as if Blizzard or Steam do not charge for dlc. Or that Xbox never gave away free dlc. The problem atleast for Blizzard is that MS or XBOX is now a popular middle man for them. Sucks for Blizzard because they have to play by MS's rules. Which means Blizzards DLC doesnt go straight to their pockets, MS gets its cut. Steam on the other hand is the same as MS (Middleman) unless inhouse. Not sure why theyre complaining?

Really the only time MS is playing the middleman is with Xbox. On PC you have a choice, which Win8 still gives. So I dont know what the hell these people are complainig about.
 
Hornet said:
Do you really think the devs are afraid of leaving their games unpached? There are so many games out there that remained un-patched, some abandoned after a couple of half-assed patching.

No games can be release in perfect condition, every games need patching. Either you encourage them to patch it or it will be left the way it is at release.
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I dont care if theyre afraid or not. The point of the matter is that people who are going to sell their games need to start holding them to some form of quality. As a consumer I expect something to work when I purchase it. If it is broken I expect a replacement in working condition or my money back. Devs on the other hand patch (band-aid) or dont do anything. Sometimes their patches makes thing worse or causes other problems. Im also sick of hearing that every game needs patching, why? Why do the majority of games that get released need patching? If you cant make a game that is going to work find somebody that can perform the job. I understand things happen, but from the majority of major to minor gaming studios? As a consumer I shouldnt have to encourage anybody to do a job correctly. It sucks that I like gaming because I could speak with my money and not purchase games. Except then that would mean I dont play games at all. My point was that Steam,MS,Sony,etc need to start letting these gaming companies know thats its not cool to sell broken games. Its not a good look.
 
The real reason Activision-Blizzard is upset is because they now have to write code to update their games. God forbid they update CoD for once since MW1.
 
deansmilk said:
No, I want Bethesda games and other devs to release games that work the first time. I dont know about you but I dont like spending 60$ on broken shit.
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...what world are you living in?
A game that just 'works' on v1.0?

Nice fantasy, but we live in the real world with games like STALKER: Clear Sky. :D
 
Advil said:
Would they mind getting specific? What the hell is wrong with it for gaming exactly? I've BEEN gaming on Win 8... it works. Steam works. Blizzard games work.

WHATS THE PROBLEM?
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The big picture is the problem, think longterm. MS wants to turn the open PC eco-system into a gated community with them as the gatekeepers, obviously that could potentially kill off the rich digital PC marketplace, steam/battle.net/etc could go the way of Netscape.
 
If Windows turns into a glorified Xbox then yeah, it could be shit. I think it's a long way off that, but that might be the direction MS is heading with W8.
 
Wierdo said:
The big picture is the problem, think longterm. MS wants to turn the open PC eco-system into a gated community with them as the gatekeepers, obviously that could potentially kill off the rich digital PC marketplace, steam/battle.net/etc could go the way of Netscape.
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Proof?
 
deansmilk said:
No, I want Bethesda games and other devs to release games that work the first time. I dont know about you but I dont like spending 60$ on broken shit.
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Before game consoles became online, games had to work without any patches. Nowadays developers have no problem with their customers being the beta testers. Otherwise, patching was a PC only thing. Something I remember console gamers made jokes about a lot. The jokes on you now. :D
 
DeathPrincess said:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/store-terms-of-use. Welsome to "the future".
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Thanks for the link.

Even more reasons not to install the malware known as Windows 8. One of my life's goals is to be able to outlawyer the lawyers by beating them at their own game

If you change your account settings to a different region, you may not be able to re-download or roam apps or content that was available to you in your previous region. You may also be required to repurchase or pay for a license to apps or content, even if you’ve already paid for them in the previous region.
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Substantive unconscionability.

So now apparently if I move to another country, I lose access to software that I've already purchased. Even Steam doesn't do that (and I've railed on them in the past for geographic restrictions).

All apps made available through the Windows Store are licensed, not sold, to you.
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Stores sell goods. Goods are sold, not licensed. By calling it a store, this becomes an illusory promise.

Can Microsoft change the Windows Store or my access to it? We may change the Windows Store at any time, for any reason or no reason, and we may also cancel or suspend your ability to access the Windows Store if you’re in breach of this agreement. If we cancel your Windows Store service account or your credentials, your right to use the Windows Store stops immediately, but you’re still required to pay all charges already incurred through that account.
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Substantive unconscionability. Next.

Can Microsoft remove apps or data from my device? We may change or discontinue certain apps or content offered in the Windows Store at any time, for any reason. Sometimes, we do so to respond to legal or contractual requirements. In cases where your security is at risk, or where we’re required to do so for legal reasons, you may not be able to run apps or access content that you previously acquired or purchased a license for. In cases where we remove a paid app from your Windows 8 Consumer Preview device not at your direction, we may refund to you the amount you paid for the license. Some apps may also stop working if you update or change your Windows 8 Consumer Preview device, or if you attempt to use those apps on a Windows 8 Consumer Preview device with different features or processor type. You are responsible for backing up the data that you store in apps that you acquire via the Windows Store, including content you upload using those apps. If the Windows Store, an app, or any content is changed or discontinued, your data could be deleted or you may not be able to retrieve data you have stored. We have no obligation to return data to you. If sign in information or other data is stored with an expiration date, we may also delete the data as of that date.
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So :

A.Microsoft can delete your applications for any reason they feel like.
B.Microsoft can delete your data from the cloud at any time for any reason they feel like.
C.They can take your money, then revoke your access to the application and then not have to give you a refund.

How does Microsoft collect or use data from my use of the Windows Store? To provide the Windows Store service, we may collect certain information about service performance, your service use, and your use of your Windows 8 Consumer Preview system. This information may be sent automatically when you use the Windows Store. Our use of that information is described in the Windows Privacy Statement (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=232416). The Windows 8 Consumer Preview system means the device running Windows, any software running on that device, and any devices or software communicating with that device.
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Microsoft can spy on me and observe how I use my computer. This particular clause neither requires them to discontinue this after the consumer preview nor does it limit them as to what data they can collect.

The Windows Store is a feature of the Windows operating system and is an Internet-based service. It’s subject to the Software License Terms for your Windows operating system, as well as this additional agreement that’s specific to your use of the Windows Store. Please read this agreement carefully. By using the Windows Store, you accept its terms and consent to the transmission of certain information as described in these Terms of Use.
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And finally, the last piece of the puzzle drops into place. Procedural unconscionability.
 
A built in store sounds like potential anti-trust shit, same shit that almost got MS in trouble bundling IE with Windows.

Do you all realy think MS has your best interests in mind?
 
Interesting that people who think we should all be using Linux as a regular OS are deterred by a lack of a start button and a store to sell apps for touch devices.
 
Dump windows 8 call it fucking windows tablet keep selling windows 7 problem solved.
 
So how many years is it going to take before "the year of linux"? How the hell is any modern dev going to survive trasitioning away from directx?
 
It's like all the companies that have spent millions of dollars trying to build up their own online distribution system (Battle.net is scheduled to start selling third party games), feel that Windows 8 with it's built-in Windows Store are bad for their bottom line. Shocker! Waiting for EA's comment saying how damaging this is to their plans for Origin.
 
Any hardcore PC user has to hate where Microsoft want to go with Windows 8, a closed system designed for the dumbest users.
 
Apple built their walled garden, convinced people to come into it and take a bite of the Apple, then gave them the option to stay in it or leave. Microsoft took a different route by running around in the wild and attracting users who enjoy the freedom of the wilderness. Now that they have a huge user base they want to corral them into their own walled garden and lead them to slaughter.

The terms of the Windows Store alone should set off alarms for anyone with a functioning brain who is paying attention to this.

Windows 8 is the Judas Goat of operating systems. :D
 
dagamer34 said:
Here's the issue:

No one is restricting the Win32 applications which Valve and Blizzard are used to making. And to be clear, Gabe Newell's comments are not very clear about whether he was talking about Windows 8 as a whole, Metro, or the clear fact that the Windows 8 Store competes with Steam.

What they seem to be whining about is that because it will be so "easy" to buy indie games from the Windows 8 store since it's installed on every computer, no one will buy games from Steam (and that affects their bottom line, regardless of whatever they say after this comment). We've seen this argument before with the Mac App Store. Nothing forces people to buy from there, but because it's so stupidly easy, a lot more money gets spent in that ecosystem than from a random online store setup by a 3rd party developer. And at that point, it really just sounds like whining to me.

While large developers may be complaining about Windows 8 (and they probably said similar things about the App Store and it's 30% cut), indie developers think it's the best thing since sliced bread. You make an app, and the OS vendor hands you millions of potential customers with credit cards already setup such that they need to click twice to buy your product. Who wouldn't love that?
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+1 from me. Good for indie developers.

Good for the Users too.

Pehaps not so good for someone else.
 
Stone Cold said:
Any hardcore PC user has to hate where Microsoft want to go with Windows 8, a closed system designed for the dumbest users.
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Nope, we're all just a bunch of old people afraid from change, luddites and "whiners", "haters" and "noobs".



Or so the metrolls say. But who cares about what they say?
 
The day Microsoft closes Windows down completely, is the day a competitor like Mac or Linux will beat them. People like to do what they want with their computer, and if one won't let them, the other will. So I don't see it happening. Microsoft will have control over its app store, but other means of programs will exist, or everyone will transition to Linux or Mac. So I would not worry too much.
 
And how is Mac OS X a walled garden? Sure it has an app store, but I can install any program I want, just like Windows. I can use any file I want. Its not the iPhone with iOS, which I consider a walled garden. And I'm fine with that iOS garden, it does everything I need it to do, and it does it more smoothly than Android.
 
On one hand I love how the smartphone industry has take the idea of "apps" and ran with it. Works great in the phone/tablet environment.


However when I want to sit down and REALLY get some work done, I don't want a Disney looking interface, I don't want MS to have any sort of say in what and how I run my machine.

I'm the type of guy that when I buy something, give it to me and get out of my face. This is just like buying a car and having the salesmen in the back seat 24/7 trying to get you to buy other crap from their store.

The trend of always online/apps/appstores/dumbed down interface to me is all retarded. If I want to use something that looks like a fisher price toy I'll go to walmart and buy one.

All that being said - I have (only slightly) more love for Windows 8 than I do anything Blizzard related. After bending over and totally raping the hell out of the Diablo3 franchise their products/words/thoughts mean nothing to me.
 
Is Diablo 3 a bad game or something? I was going to try it! Looked fun. Never played 1-2.
 
Neo Zuko said:
And how is Mac OS X a walled garden? Sure it has an app store, but I can install any program I want, just like Windows. I can use any file I want. Its not the iPhone with iOS, which I consider a walled garden. And I'm fine with that iOS garden, it does everything I need it to do, and it does it more smoothly than Android.
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The concern here is that Microsoft is moving its desktop towards iOS/ Android kind of OS where everything must go through their respective apps store. Win 8 is already developed for both mobile and desktop.

Will you be fine with that? Having to purchase all your games and software through Microsoft store? I know I won't be.
 
Hornet said:
The concern here is that Microsoft is moving its desktop towards iOS/ Android kind of OS where everything must go through their respective apps store. Win 8 is already developed for both mobile and desktop.

Will you be fine with that? Having to purchase all your games and software through Microsoft store? I know I won't be.
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I won't fine if I had to purchase all of my games & software through only Microsoft store.:(
 
Wait, do you actually HAVE to purchase everything from the built in store, I seriously doubt that is or will be the case. I assume it will most likely just be like the Mac store.
 
Bobthecoolguy said:
Wait, do you actually HAVE to purchase everything from the built in store, I seriously doubt that is or will be the case. I assume it will most likely just be like the Mac store.
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I think people are worried that MS will require this in a future version of Windows.
 
Bobthecoolguy said:
Wait, do you actually HAVE to purchase everything from the built in store, I seriously doubt that is or will be the case. I assume it will most likely just be like the Mac store.
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No its not the case. Its an option and some members are being overly dramatic about it. Good forbid if MS wants to join in on the party. Its like some of these people just woke up to capitalism.
 
Neo Zuko said:
And how is Mac OS X a walled garden? Sure it has an app store, but I can install any program I want, just like Windows. I can use any file I want. Its not the iPhone with iOS, which I consider a walled garden. And I'm fine with that iOS garden, it does everything I need it to do, and it does it more smoothly than Android.
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Any chance to rip on Apple at the [H] is taken. ;)
 
THis is all too funny. I could care less about Valve or Blizzard if they want to get stuck in the past. I think it's about time to make new games for PCs ionstead of console ports and old tech crap. Either they change their companies or they get left behind. It's pretty much normal in the business world, what's to complain about?
 
deansmilk said:
No its not the case. Its an option and some members are being overly dramatic about it. Good forbid if MS wants to join in on the party. Its like some of these people just woke up to capitalism.
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You should read the comments more closely. No one is saying Microsoft is doing that for Windows 8. There's just a concern that Microsoft is heading in that direction.

And all this argument about it being a good move for the company is irrelevant. Of course Microsoft, as a corporate, do what's best for them. But hey. neither you or I own the company.

We are the consumers. Do you expect the consumer to agree with something that benefits the corporate and not us?

If everything must go through Microsoft's store, that is the end of any competition. No more Steam, GOG, Origin or whatever. You've got to be insane to think that this will be good for us the consumers.
 
pelo said:
It's not about working fine, it's about them transitioning away from the PC...

You people need to learn to read the articles/quotes before you comment. It specifically states not good for the PC. This isn't exactly a revolutionary thought from Blizzard considering it's what nearly everyone has been saying about win8 for months now.
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Win8 has nothing--nothing--at all to do with "transitioning away from the PC." Had Newell been running the latest available copy of Win8--the Release Preview--he'd know that. The PC (whether desktop or laptop) is still very much Microsoft's core business and will continue to be for decades to come.

Windows is simply absorbing the "tablet" as another form factor it will support, along with laptops and notebooks--Microsoft is closing the Microsoft tablet--its own, custom tablet design--not the PC. Microsoft is not making PCs, remember. Sometimes, Newell sounds like an idiot--I really wish he'd confine his public comments to HL3, because, really, that's all I want to hear from him, anyway. He's said nutty, off-the-wall nonsense for years.

He's "picking up Linux" because he's scared that Windows 8 is going to ruin his business? What malarkey....;) Why did the company "pick up the Mac," then--he said nothing about the iPad when it debuted. Apple has an abysmally low share of the PC market--but Linux is truly the King of desktop nothingness in terms of market share...;) The only thing I got out of Newell's comments is that if he's hoping Linux will "save Valve" then not only is he loopy, Valve is doomed...;) What a truly stupid thing to say.
 
Advil said:
Would they mind getting specific? What the hell is wrong with it for gaming exactly? I've BEEN gaming on Win 8... it works. Steam works. Blizzard games work.

WHATS THE PROBLEM?
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The problem is that now they can't charge $50 for a game when you can download 50 games for the same price on the marketplace. This is why they are haters.
 
Windows 8 is buns and I will stick with W7 for the next 8 years or so.

Blizzards D3 works for me. If there are better ideas out there ( in games) we would be glad to see them when they come out.
 
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