Blizzard Doesn't Like Windows 8 Either

bcrisp82 said:
The problem is that now they can't charge $50 for a game when you can download 50 games for the same price on the marketplace. This is why they are haters.
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And yet all of those games are RESTRICTED to running in the Metro interface and utilizing the WinRT set of APIs.

They literally do not fucking compete with eachother. Steam, Origin, Impulse, whatever-the-fuck-blizzard uses all sell and compete against eachother for selling games that are programmed in C++ and use the Win32 API calls. They are far more advanced than any game that will be released in the Metro store can or will ever be.

There is no overlap. You won't be purchasing Binding of Isaac in the Microsoft store. You won't be getting Metro 2033, or Skyrim or any other desktop Windows game because they literally can not be developed using just the WinRT APIs. The Microsoft store is good for one thing, and that's tablets.

And I don't see Valve or Blizzard bitching about the fact that Apple has a near Monopoly in the tablet space that they can't make money off of because they can't have people buy directly form them - so why does Microsoft get all this vitriol? The sheer hypocrisy and nonsensical nature of all this "criticism" is utterly laughable.
 
WaltC said:
Win8 has nothing--nothing--at all to do with "transitioning away from the PC." Had Newell been running the latest available copy of Win8--the Release Preview--he'd know that. The PC (whether desktop or laptop) is still very much Microsoft's core business and will continue to be for decades to come.
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Hold on... So a sidestep for all users already on windows 7 but a big leap for users on windows phone 7 doesn't sound like a transitioning away from the PC for you? If MS still believed the desktop to be their core business they wouldn't force Metro and would have actually built a desktop OS from the ground up instead of bolting win7 onto a tablet OS. Windows 8 isn't a desktop OS, it's a hybrid OS for hybrid devices (see recent win8 tablet review. Apparently it sucks just as much on the desktop as it does with a tablet).


WaltC said:
Windows is simply absorbing the "tablet" as another form factor it will support, along with laptops and notebooks--Microsoft is closing the Microsoft tablet--its own, custom tablet design--not the PC. Microsoft is not making PCs, remember. Sometimes, Newell sounds like an idiot--I really wish he'd confine his public comments to HL3, because, really, that's all I want to hear from him, anyway. He's said nutty, off-the-wall nonsense for years.

He's "picking up Linux" because he's scared that Windows 8 is going to ruin his business? What malarkey....;) Why did the company "pick up the Mac," then--he said nothing about the iPad when it debuted. Apple has an abysmally low share of the PC market--but Linux is truly the King of desktop nothingness in terms of market share...;) The only thing I got out of Newell's comments is that if he's hoping Linux will "save Valve" then not only is he loopy, Valve is doomed...;) What a truly stupid thing to say.
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Blizzard, SOE, and VALVe all make their money off of desktop gamers and a steady and evolving desktop OS. As soon as Microsoft takes a step to the side then they have a right to question it. The entire PC gaming industry revolves around, and relies on a (somewhat) uniform and stable platform. Windows 8 isn't a desktop OS first. The desktop is treated as an afterthought with all the fanboys claiming you can still do what you did on win7. Great. That's true, but if I can do it all on win7 then why in the world would I want win8? Furthermore, who is win8 actually for? Certainly not for desktop enthusiasts and gamers <~~~ this is how Steam/Blizz/SOE makes money.
 
I see what you guys are talking about, but I think it is more about synergy. Having the same Metro OS and an app store on every device. So you don't have to learn a new interface with every new device. While hopefully leaving it open and PC like too. Even Apple is moving towards that one OS goal. Soon we will not be on a PC OS and a phone OS. Both will die, and a new middle ground will be born. Perhaps with the advantages of both and the weaknesses of none. Our phones will be our PCs, as in not a walled garden, but powerful enough to run the main OS with hopefully open-ness too, or our PCs will fit into a Dick Tracy watch, and they will all use a shared way of using them, like minority report. And you will just dock to a big screen when at home - wireless. That is were it is headed. If they leave it open enough to appease us is another story, but I would say that is the future. Convergence of interfaces. So just because it has an app store and is converging, I don't think that means MS wants a giant cell phone for an OS. And lets not forget that MS is not Apple or Google in a certain respect, they don't write nearly enough software to make that happen. Apple makes all these little apps that make that platform nice. Google writes all the cool stuff on chrome and gmail and docs, and so on, MS just makes like Word and Windows and XBOX. And that is if that app store even takes off in the first place. Honestly, by the time all that happens, Google could come out with a new OS or something. Apple could take over. It's not impossible that MS will lose its spot. And Linux will always be there, they just got Steam right? I still think if MS steps too far out of line, something will give, so I think it is pointless to worry about it. Now I say this knowing that I did not research or read all of this stuff here, but I'm just saying, I'm using Windows 8 right now, and it really is not that different. Took me a day to figure out how to turn off the power without a start button, but now I found it, its all good. And that convergence stuff will work wonders for my play movies from my couch goal. I could be way off, but there is my thoughts.
 
DW-UK said:
+1 from me. Good for indie developers.

Good for the Users too.

Pehaps not so good for someone else.
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MS marketplace good for indies? How so? If other market options are gone or severely diminished then obviously we'll end up with less options and more price fixing, similar to how the RIAA/MPAA cartels do it. And if - or rather when - MS runs it like they do their Xbox store, then Indies will be second class citizens again - $10,000 software patch/update barriers and all that good stuff - without other credible options to turn to.

The MS store is good for MS, and possibly for a select set of novice users that want the gated community experience, it's bad for pretty much everyone else involved.
 
I will say I like the Apple OS X approach to bringing touch to desktops way more than MS's plan. Trackpad gestures is better than touching your 30" monitor.
 
pelo said:
Furthermore, who is win8 actually for? Certainly not for desktop enthusiasts and gamers <~~~ this is how Steam/Blizz/SOE makes money.
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I'm a desktop and gaming enthusiast and I plan on upgrading to Windows 8. The desktop is vastly improved with a lot of under the hood upgrades made to it that I feel it's definitely worth upgrading to. Not least of which to get the ability to use Storage Pools which is basically Drive Extender but not buggy as hell.

Explain that then. Metro is nothing more than a full-screen start page. I use it as such and it works fantastically. The desktop is not only just as good, it's also better from my usage of it.
 
Wierdo said:
MS marketplace good for indies? How so? If other market options are gone or severely diminished then obviously we'll end up with less options and more price fixing, similar to how the RIAA/MPAA cartels do it. And if - or rather when - MS runs it like they do their Xbox store, then Indies will be second class citizens again - $10,000 software patch/update barriers and all that good stuff - without other credible options to turn to.

The MS store is good for MS, and possibly for a select set of novice users that want the gated community experience, it's bad for pretty much everyone else involved.
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Tell that to all of the Indie developers that love the kind of store-front they get with iOS. The Microsoft Marketplace will work just like the Windows Phone marketplace. You don't need to pay for validation checking like you do on a console. FFS people, would you stop with this baseless bullshit spreading? They already have a mobile OS with a dedicated marketplace. Compare it to that, not to Xbox which is a unified hardware/software box.
 
Solidstate89 said:
And yet all of those games are RESTRICTED to running in the Metro interface and utilizing the WinRT set of APIs.

They literally do not fucking compete with eachother. Steam, Origin, Impulse, whatever-the-fuck-blizzard uses all sell and compete against eachother for selling games that are programmed in C++ and use the Win32 API calls. They are far more advanced than any game that will be released in the Metro store can or will ever be.

There is no overlap. You won't be purchasing Binding of Isaac in the Microsoft store. You won't be getting Metro 2033, or Skyrim or any other desktop Windows game because they literally can not be developed using just the WinRT APIs. The Microsoft store is good for one thing, and that's tablets.

And I don't see Valve or Blizzard bitching about the fact that Apple has a near Monopoly in the tablet space that they can't make money off of because they can't have people buy directly form them - so why does Microsoft get all this vitriol? The sheer hypocrisy and nonsensical nature of all this "criticism" is utterly laughable.
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I guess you never noticed that gaming is a little bigger on Windows than it is on Mac, as it's also bigger (AAA) on PC than tablets.
 
pelo said:
Hold on... So a sidestep for all users already on windows 7 but a big leap for users on windows phone 7 doesn't sound like a transitioning away from the PC for you? If MS still believed the desktop to be their core business they wouldn't force Metro and would have actually built a desktop OS from the ground up instead of bolting win7 onto a tablet OS. Windows 8 isn't a desktop OS, it's a hybrid OS for hybrid devices (see recent win8 tablet review. Apparently it sucks just as much on the desktop as it does with a tablet).
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Having a different interface does not mean Win8 is not a "desktop OS". It's laughable since Win8 still has a standard windows desktop available. Is Openbox or AWESOME on Linux not a desktop OS because there are no desktop icons? People were threatening to switch to Linux when XP's interface was a tiny bit different from 98s, they did the same with Vista when it again changed a tiny bit, it always happens. While Metro is different for us advanced users it is a good thing for the computer illiterates out there that make up the vast majority of Windows users.

pelo said:
Blizzard, SOE, and VALVe all make their money off of desktop gamers and a steady and evolving desktop OS. As soon as Microsoft takes a step to the side then they have a right to question it. The entire PC gaming industry revolves around, and relies on a (somewhat) uniform and stable platform. Windows 8 isn't a desktop OS first. The desktop is treated as an afterthought with all the fanboys claiming you can still do what you did on win7. Great. That's true, but if I can do it all on win7 then why in the world would I want win8? Furthermore, who is win8 actually for? Certainly not for desktop enthusiasts and gamers <~~~ this is how Steam/Blizz/SOE makes money.
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You can do nearly everything on XP that you can do on 7. So why upgrade to 7? Win8 has core enhancements past the metro skin. There is better CPU scheduling (which the Bulldozer fans were wanting), faster boot times, better support for new devices, and all of the other standard feature upgrades that come with a new version of Windows. There is nothing that makes Win8 unsuitable for enthusiasts and gamers. If you had used Win8 you would know this.

As far as the EULA; I find it funny that both Valve and EA have been known to take entire game collections away from users for things as simple as forum posts or sharing their account but they're the angels in this scenario when MS to my knowledge has never attempted to take anything but pirated software from their userbase in the past.

This is less of an issue IMHO than Google having the right to look at everything you do on their services and devices; yet the [H] crowd loves them.
 
Having a different interface does not mean Win8 is not a "desktop OS". It's laughable since Win8 still has a standard windows desktop available. Is Openbox or AWESOME on Linux not a desktop OS because there are no desktop icons? People were threatening to switch to Linux when XP's interface was a tiny bit different from 98s, they did the same with Vista when it again changed a tiny bit, it always happens. While Metro is different for us advanced users it is a good thing for the computer illiterates out there that make up the vast majority of Windows users.
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Again, the largest strides as far as improvements go are on the touch-based/tablet side, not on the desktop side. The desktop was an afterthought. If it weren't an afterthought you wouldn't have to "slide to open" your way into the OS.

It's the direction they're worried about. MS is obviously focusing on Metro and tablets more than anything else. Valve/Blizz/SOE don't make games for tablets, Steam doesn't offer services for tablets.
 
windows 8 just plain sucks.

We get it you wanted to design a operating system to work on tablets and phones. Calling it windows 8 and making people use it on the desktop space was the biggest mistake.

anywho windows 8 is not made for mutitasking. It favors the simple metro idea, where a user will be using one app at a time. Notice i said app, instead of program.
 
Windows 8 is crap.

Microsoft better hope the Xbox 720 is a winner, at this point its their only saving grace. That and Direct X.
 
pelo said:
Again, the largest strides as far as improvements go are on the touch-based/tablet side, not on the desktop side. The desktop was an afterthought. If it weren't an afterthought you wouldn't have to "slide to open" your way into the OS.

It's the direction they're worried about. MS is obviously focusing on Metro and tablets more than anything else. Valve/Blizz/SOE don't make games for tablets, Steam doesn't offer services for tablets.
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Obviously you didn't read my next paragraph:

Win8 has core enhancements past the metro skin. There is better CPU scheduling (which the Bulldozer fans were wanting), faster boot times, better support for new devices, and all of the other standard feature upgrades that come with a new version of Windows. There is nothing that makes Win8 unsuitable for enthusiasts and gamers. If you had used Win8 you would know this.
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And yet only one of those matter when you've got an SSD.

The only improvement for a desktop user, and I do mean only improvement, is the updated thread scheduler. That's it.
 
pelo said:
Again, the largest strides as far as improvements go are on the touch-based/tablet side, not on the desktop side. The desktop was an afterthought. If it weren't an afterthought you wouldn't have to "slide to open" your way into the OS.

It's the direction they're worried about. MS is obviously focusing on Metro and tablets more than anything else. Valve/Blizz/SOE don't make games for tablets, Steam doesn't offer services for tablets.
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So everyone wants to throw What If's out there for the future, based on the fact that MS is taking Apple's lead and also opening a store of their own. Interesting. Especially interesting since all of the "what if"s being thrown around are entirely baseless. MS has never said or suggested that they're moving away from desktops and/or forcing all apps through their store. They are simply putting themselves into a market that they previously were not in, and opening new doors. For them, it means more possible income from devs who distribute through it. For devs, they don't HAVE TO use the store if they don't want to. For us end users, we have to use the store for metro apps, but all of our normal desktop apps work perfectly fine on the desktop as intended. We can play "BUT BUT WHAT IF!" all day long, and we're only going to be guessing at the future, tech's future of all things! There is no substantial facts to back any of the "what if"s in this thread.
The desktop was not an afterthought - it is there, and you can use it in a nearly identical manner that you do in Win 7. You *can* multitask just well. I do it all day every day. Then start looking at the under-the-hood improvements (Win8 on the exact same hardware IS faster and smoother at *everything*), and you can tell they put a solid effort into th desktop. If anything, I'd say they pinned on Metro as an after thought, actually. It's a full page start screen that you either slide to open or just hit the windows button on your keyboard and you're taken to the desktop. So simple. I actually have most of my common apps pinned to the start screen. As soon as I log on, I'm taken there and can start opening some of my usual apps. And get this, once I open one, I'm taken... TO THE DESKTOP! HOW ABOUT THAT!?
ebduncan said:
windows 8 just plain sucks.

We get it you wanted to design a operating system to work on tablets and phones. Calling it windows 8 and making people use it on the desktop space was the biggest mistake.

anywho windows 8 is not made for mutitasking. It favors the simple metro idea, where a user will be using one app at a time. Notice i said app, instead of program.
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Can you provide more details on why it "plain sucks" and why you believe you cannot "multitask" on Win8 please? Can you then also say how much time you've actually spent using Win8 and what shortcomings it truly has to your normal day to day workflow?
Krenum said:
Windows 8 is crap.

Microsoft better hope the Xbox 720 is a winner, at this point its their only saving grace. That and Direct X.
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You as well, the same questions above.
 
pelo said:
And yet only one of those matter when you've got an SSD.

The only improvement for a desktop user, and I do mean only improvement, is the updated thread scheduler. That's it.
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What crack are you smoking? ReFS means nothing (it's not every day we get a new file system you know)? Faster boot times regardless of hardware over Win7 means nothing? Overall system performance means nothing to you (in my day to day use, Win 8 is faster and smoother than Win 7 on the same hardware. This has also been the results of numerous tests available online).
 
Eulogy said:
What crack are you smoking? ReFS means nothing (it's not every day we get a new file system you know)? Faster boot times regardless of hardware over Win7 means nothing? Overall system performance means nothing to you (in my day to day use, Win 8 is faster and smoother than Win 7 on the same hardware. This has also been the results of numerous tests available online).
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When was the last time you had any issues with NTFS? Seriously? I understand file system improvements on a server but on the desktop...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_2012

ReFS originates from Windows Server 2012.

Then there's this gem:

Some NTFS features are not supported in ReFS, including named streams, object IDs, short names, file compression, file level encryption (EFS), user data transactions, sparse files, hard links, extended attributes, and disk quotas.
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Faster boot times mean nothing to me. I don't boot my machine every day and nor do most enthusiasts. You have hibernate/sleep for a reason, use it.
 
I love all non factual, fear generating posts about MS future.the truth is that Win 8 is not a closed OS or that there isn't any signs showing that it will be. They are introducing their ecosystem. Which you have an option not to use. Why is this hard to grasp? They made Metro for their upcoming ecosystem. Windows is their most popular product. So it makes sense to introduce it through that. If you don't want to use their Marketplace then remove it from the Start screen. You guys do know you can customize what you see on the start screen right? This whole thread is nothing but alot of misinformation based on future assumptions.
 
deansmilk said:
I love all non factual, fear generating posts about MS future.the truth is that Win 8 is not a closed OS or that there isn't any signs showing that it will be. They are introducing their ecosystem. Which you have an option not to use. Why is this hard to grasp? They made Metro for their upcoming ecosystem. Windows is their most popular product. So it makes sense to introduce it through that. If you don't want to use their Marketplace then remove it from the Start screen. You guys do know you can customize what you see on the start screen right? This whole thread is nothing but alot of misinformation based on future assumptions.
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The MS store isn't the only argument here.

Microsoft releases half a desktop OS with half a tablet OS and bolts them together.

Valve/Steam/Blizz/SOE rely on a steady and growing desktop space, and in turn a strong MS on the desktop, to do business.

Valve/Steam/Blizz/SOE notice MS is transitioning away from their desktop-centric approach and their new OS is more focused on providing better tablet/phone friendliness than desktop friendliness (compared to earlier versions).

Valve/Steam/Blizz/SOE are upset.
 
deansmilk said:
I love all non factual, fear generating posts about MS future.the truth is that Win 8 is not a closed OS or that there isn't any signs showing that it will be. They are introducing their ecosystem. Which you have an option not to use. Why is this hard to grasp? They made Metro for their upcoming ecosystem. Windows is their most popular product. So it makes sense to introduce it through that. If you don't want to use their Marketplace then remove it from the Start screen. You guys do know you can customize what you see on the start screen right? This whole thread is nothing but alot of misinformation based on future assumptions.
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If Microsoft doesn't change their UI mish-mashing with 9, you guys are fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked. :) Windows 7 support isn't going to last forever. :D
 
pelo said:
The MS store isn't the only argument here.

Microsoft releases half a desktop OS with half a tablet OS and bolts them together.

Valve/Steam/Blizz/SOE rely on a steady and growing desktop space, and in turn a strong MS on the desktop, to do business.

Valve/Steam/Blizz/SOE notice MS is transitioning away from their desktop-centric approach and their new OS is more focused on providing better tablet/phone friendliness than desktop friendliness (compared to earlier versions).

Valve/Steam/Blizz/SOE are upset.
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This is false information. Win 8 is a full desktop os with the addition of Metro/new start menu. Those companies can still continue to do what they have been doing. If you fear aboutfuture os's don't. Because there isn't any facts pointing to MS closing their desktop os. Now, if that ever dies happen. You as a consumer dies have a choice not to purchase any future products
 
Solidstate89 said:
I'm a desktop and gaming enthusiast and I plan on upgrading to Windows 8. The desktop is vastly improved with a lot of under the hood upgrades made to it that I feel it's definitely worth upgrading to. Not least of which to get the ability to use Storage Pools which is basically Drive Extender but not buggy as hell.
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You mean the crap version of a raid setup? It's not the same thing as Raid 5 or 0+1. It's not as good of a feature, but works for those who have lots of extra drives lying around and are lazy.
And I don't see Valve or Blizzard bitching about the fact that Apple has a near Monopoly in the tablet space that they can't make money off of because they can't have people buy directly form them - so why does Microsoft get all this vitriol? The sheer hypocrisy and nonsensical nature of all this "criticism" is utterly laughable.
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We don't know the full details of the Microsoft store yet. Developers aren't crapping a brick for no reason. Valve doesn't just do a u-turn on Linux and decides to support it for no reason. There must be certain restrictions in place of the Windows app store that we don't fully understand as of yet.

As for Mac, that OS was a joke from day one. There's not enough sales on the OS X platform to concern any company really. The difference between Mac OS X and Windows is that Apple is pushing iOS onto desktop/laptop users very slowly. They just released Mountain Lion, so I'd expect the next version or the version after that to fully integrate iOS and the rules that come with it.

Microsoft said fuck you, and you're getting Windows phone fully integrated onto your desktop/laptop OS. It isn't because they wanna integrate the tablet experience into Windows, but they want the 30% of sales that Apple has been getting. Of course the difference here is that the apps you get on iPhone and Android would normally never sell on Windows or Mac OS X. On the other hand desktop apps sell just fine on their own, including games. Thirty percent of $1 isn't big, but from $50 or $60 is a big deal.
 
deansmilk said:
This is false information. Win 8 is a full desktop os with the addition of Metro/new start menu. Those companies can still continue to do what they have been doing. If you fear aboutfuture os's don't. Because there isn't any facts pointing to MS closing their desktop os. Now, if that ever dies happen. You as a consumer dies have a choice not to purchase any future products
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Open a Metro application and open a desktop application and set them side by side. Tell me what happens.
 
nOrVow said:
You see... the thing is,

:D

So people WILL have to switch eventually.
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People will switch, but it doesn't have to be Windows 8.

linux-windows.jpg
 
Only reason I use windows is cause of games. So if all games worked on linux, the switch would be a no brainer. Cutting out MS would be awesome.
 
Galvin said:
Only reason I use windows is cause of games. So if all games worked on linux, the switch would be a no brainer. Cutting out MS would be awesome.
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This.

Like I said, Xbox and Direct X are the only thing saving MS at the moment.
 
Ashbringer said:
You mean the crap version of a raid setup? It's not the same thing as Raid 5 or 0+1. It's not as good of a feature, but works for those who have lots of extra drives lying around and are lazy.

We don't know the full details of the Microsoft store yet. Developers aren't crapping a brick for no reason. Valve doesn't just do a u-turn on Linux and decides to support it for no reason. There must be certain restrictions in place of the Windows app store that we don't fully understand as of yet.

As for Mac, that OS was a joke from day one. There's not enough sales on the OS X platform to concern any company really. The difference between Mac OS X and Windows is that Apple is pushing iOS onto desktop/laptop users very slowly. They just released Mountain Lion, so I'd expect the next version or the version after that to fully integrate iOS and the rules that come with it.

Microsoft said fuck you, and you're getting Windows phone fully integrated onto your desktop/laptop OS. It isn't because they wanna integrate the tablet experience into Windows, but they want the 30% of sales that Apple has been getting. Of course the difference here is that the apps you get on iPhone and Android would normally never sell on Windows or Mac OS X. On the other hand desktop apps sell just fine on their own, including games. Thirty percent of $1 isn't big, but from $50 or $60 is a big deal.
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It's better than a fixed RAID because you can just keep adding more and more drives to it. It's more akin to Synology's Hybrid RAID than anything. It's actually superior to a fixed RAID in everyway.

And we actually do know everything about the store - because they've fucking written ten-thousand words long blog posts on Building Windows 8. I guess you like living in ignorance I suppose. :rolleyes:
 
Solidstate89 said:
It's better than a fixed RAID because you can just keep adding more and more drives to it. It's more akin to Synology's Hybrid RAID than anything. It's actually superior to a fixed RAID in everyway.

And we actually do know everything about the store - because they've fucking written ten-thousand words long blog posts on Building Windows 8. I guess you like living in ignorance I suppose. :rolleyes:
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Also, why the hell would they even care about MS's store when there is still the desktop. Its like they cant grasp that there is actually a fully functional desktop to run Steam or whatever crap game that Bliz puts out.
 
Krenum said:
This.

Like I said, Xbox and Direct X are the only thing saving MS at the moment.
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Honestly? Do you think that PC gaming is what MS depends on the most? They have a foot hold in much bigger things then what we all use Windows for. MS doesn't need saving, and they're not holding on just because of Xbox and DirectX alone.
 
deansmilk said:
Also, why the hell would they even care about MS's store when there is still the desktop. Its like they cant grasp that there is actually a fully functional desktop to run Steam or whatever crap game that Bliz puts out.
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People see what they want to see. There is no danger to steam, origin, or Acti-Bliz.



FLAME ME ALL YOU WANT! :D
 
Bash said:
error37.jpg
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:D Somebody got the trick question.

If you need more proof that Metro and the desktop are two different operating systems then there it is. Different sets of applications that don't even work with each other.
 
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