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Bitcoin Discussion Thread Part 2

Hi guys, just wondering what mining pool you guys are using these days? I have been out of the BTC loop for a while but as winter approaches I might start up again :)
 
wolfofone said:
Hi guys, just wondering what mining pool you guys are using these days? I have been out of the BTC loop for a while but as winter approaches I might start up again :)
Click to expand...

bitminter for me

mines for BTC and namecoins.
 
Thanks for the suggestions, I will check them out. EMC looks like a neat site. When I was into this I was using GUIMiner but looking at it now it looks like it has not been updated in a long time. Is it still worth using?
 
wolfofone said:
Thanks for the suggestions, I will check them out. EMC looks like a neat site. When I was into this I was using GUIMiner but looking at it now it looks like it has not been updated in a long time. Is it still worth using?
Click to expand...

cgminer is the best option out right now IMO
 
brycejones said:
cgminer is the best option out right now IMO
Click to expand...

Hmm, it looks rather intimidating but I suppose I've been spoiled by GUI interfaces for too long ;). Thanks for the reccomendation, I'll read up on the arguments/flags and try to get it running over the weekend.
 
ya, if you can get over the lack of GUI it's apretty solid choice. I unfortunately am too lazy and have not...
 
yeah I'm still using GUI miner -- it works, its solid. I can get 708MHash/sec out of my 6970/6950 combo with a mild overclock.

Can't wait till winter so I can run them 24/7 and not worry about being burned up in my room.

I was so close to selling @ 13 - granted I only have like 3 BTC to my name... I'm just a casual miner obviously. I'm kicking myself for not mining the past 6 months or so, I could have been sitting on 500 dollars easy if I'd cashed out last week.

Only good thing is I'll be moving into an all bills paid living situation so that will be an extra 50/month for doing nothing (with no cost to me)

The two big things that have me worried is the block reward getting cut in half soon, and the introduction of Buttferly Labs Jalapeno and other ASIC miner hardware. I missed the first preorder window. Once those units start making it out into the wild, GPU computing will pretty much dry up. I only make 0.02BTC per round in my mining pool - I'm lucky to clear 1.00BTC per week at this point. When people start adding 3GHash/sec for $150/pop it's going to suck for anyone that doesn't have the hardware.
 
The real gpu killer is power / mhash. The Jalapeno is rumored to be powered over the usb so that's 3ghash at 10 watts (10 is a guesstimate I'm not sure what max usb wattage is.)

Thats pretty hard to touch with gpus like the 6970 that can hit 400mhash with a decent oc and use over 200 watts in power.
 
So....thinking about getting into bitcoining....last time I looked into it was way back when bitcoin values took a dive in 2011. I saw in another thread that bitcoin mining profitibility is highly tied to your cost of power. After looking at my latest bill, I pay roughly 10.5 cents per kilowatt hour. Now, if I were to get something like a BitForce single (or two) and ran them 24 hours, each one would cost me roughly 57 dollars a month to run non-stop 24/7. I have a nice cool, dry basement that I could run them in to help keep thermals under control so im not paying twice to run the device and have the A/C running to cool it.

So I guess, the question I have is, running at about 832mhash/s, how quickly would that potentially build up bitcoins and what kind of profit margin would I be looking at. I understand its kind of like a market so value fluctuates but what kind of estimates are there out there.

Second question, are these "standalone" devices very dependant on the host computer they're connected to? Does processor speed/RAM amounts effect its performance?
 
master noran said:
Try this calculator

http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php

You can also mine with 6970's, hash speed is not influenced by cpu/ram speed or bandwith.

Also It would be more like $5 a month since singles consume 80W

http://www.electricity-usage.com/El...ice=&Watts=80&CostPerKWH=0.105&HoursPerDay=24
Click to expand...

Well, I would want a dedicated machine because gaming with my 6970s, even water cooled, still heats up the room considerably...which is right next to the thermostat in the hallway so it artificially inflates the house temps. I would much rather use the passive cooling of a basement to help cool a machine running 24/7. Not to mention a dedicated machine like one of the FPGAs sip energy compared to GPUs.

Thanks for the electricity cost clarification....not good with math, lol. So, if I bought one of those it'd take roughly 9 months to pay off the cost of hardware...assuming exchange rates stay around 7BTC/$ and the estimated output reaches 832...anybody got any experience with pool mining....they seem to work out better than solo mining?

Oh, and anybody know of a good bitcoin merchant anywhere?
 
Mt.gox is a popular exchange. You are better off mining with a good pool like btcguild because you may never find a block solo mining with the difficulty this high. Also three 6970's would mine at about 1100 mhash
 
master noran said:
Mt.gox is a popular exchange. You are better off mining with a good pool like btcguild because you may never find a block solo mining with the difficulty this high. Also three 6970's would mine at about 1100 mhash
Click to expand...

But again, at what...600-700watts, plus the heat dump and cost to cool the living areas of the house.

Maybe if I move them off my primary rig and get some 680s I could stick them in the basement or something.

Thanks for the information Noran

Appears I should wait to see about this Butterfly Lab's Jalapeno "SC"...3.5 GIGAhash/s for 150 bucks....sounds a lot better...sorry, this is probably all rehash for you guys...im just now finding out though.
 
Last edited:
USMCGrunt said:
But again, at what...600-700watts, plus the heat dump and cost to cool the living areas of the house.

Maybe if I move them off my primary rig and get some 680s I could stick them in the basement or something.

Thanks for the information Noran

Appears I should wait to see about this Butterfly Lab's Jalapeno "SC"...3.5 GIGAhash/s for 150 bucks....sounds a lot better...sorry, this is probably all rehash for you guys...im just now finding out though.
Click to expand...

Yes, there is pretty much no point spending 600 dollars right now for an 832MHash machine (even if it only consumes 80w) when the 2nd generation of asic mining hardware is due out from Butterfly labs.

I inquired about getting in on the first batch of shipments with a pre-order, they said there is pretty much no way anyone that orders now will get part of their initial shipment. I was thinking about picking up 3 or 4 of the "Jalapenos".

The problem is:
1) they have a record of not shipping things on time, I wouldn't want to send them 500 dollars, and then not get anything till next March or something.
2) Once this low power high MHash hardware gets to the public, GPU computing will pretty much be worthless due to the high power consumption and drastically reduced reward.

The block reward is getting cut in 1/2 around Dec (estimated) that's akin to the difficulty doubling overnight. Add in another assload of GHash coming from the butterfly labs hardware (whenever that happens) and GPU's won't be able to mine fast enough or efficiently enough to cover the cost of the power they use. Some have estimated the difficulty would rapidly increase to 10 or 20X it's current level with the addition of trillions of extra hashs being dumped on the "market"

Just like the people that got in on bitcoin when it very first came out... the people that are able to score a Butterfly labs hardware will make out like bandits until the difficulty and price stabilize.
 
collegeboy69us said:
Yes, there is pretty much no point spending 600 dollars right now for an 832MHash machine (even if it only consumes 80w) when the 2nd generation of asic mining hardware is due out from Butterfly labs.

I inquired about getting in on the first batch of shipments with a pre-order, they said there is pretty much no way anyone that orders now will get part of their initial shipment. I was thinking about picking up 3 or 4 of the "Jalapenos".

The problem is:
1) they have a record of not shipping things on time, I wouldn't want to send them 500 dollars, and then not get anything till next March or something.
2) Once this low power high MHash hardware gets to the public, GPU computing will pretty much be worthless due to the high power consumption and drastically reduced reward.

The block reward is getting cut in 1/2 around Dec (estimated) that's akin to the difficulty doubling overnight. Add in another assload of GHash coming from the butterfly labs hardware (whenever that happens) and GPU's won't be able to mine fast enough or efficiently enough to cover the cost of the power they use. Some have estimated the difficulty would rapidly increase to 10 or 20X it's current level with the addition of trillions of extra hashs being dumped on the "market"

Just like the people that got in on bitcoin when it very first came out... the people that are able to score a Butterfly labs hardware will make out like bandits until the difficulty and price stabilize.
Click to expand...

The benefit though is that people that currently use GPUs and can't afford to go out and grab a couple Jalapenos will stop mining, which in turn could keep difficulty levels from going further. I suspect it will have a pretty big impact on pool miners and pretty well wipe out the hybrid use systems. If you can't afford dedicated Ghash hardware then you wont be in the bitcoin game anymore it seems.
 
USMCGrunt said:
The benefit though is that people that currently use GPUs and can't afford to go out and grab a couple Jalapenos will stop mining, which in turn could keep difficulty levels from going further. I suspect it will have a pretty big impact on pool miners and pretty well wipe out the hybrid use systems. If you can't afford dedicated Ghash hardware then you wont be in the bitcoin game anymore it seems.
Click to expand...

That's indeed one possibility -- since the estimated price to get in the asic miner game is only $150 for 3.5GHash it will be less about affordability and more about the supply of the Butterfly labs hardware.

I'd be willing to drop 500-600 dollars today if it meant I could have the hardware in my hands in a reasonable amount of time (30-60 days is the most I'd be willing to give them an interest free loan) An unknown delivery date, combined with an unknown production volume means I keep my money in my pocket.

The casual miner could sell their extra 6950 or 6970 and easily buy the entry level "Jalapeno" unit. I'm pretty sure Butterfly labs will be able to sell every single unit they can possibly produce for a good long while. It's just a waiting game as to when these asic hardware miners become readily available.

I've always wondered though -- if I was sitting on a huge production lot of miners like butterfly labs is - I would have all of those units plugged in and mining for a month or two, I'd call it "stress testing" with that kind of mining power you could rack up thousands of dollars in bitcoins in a pretty short order. Selling them off whenver you like for the most profit. You'd be double dipping your profit too because you can turn around and sell the stress tested rig and sing and dance all the way to the bank.
 
collegeboy69us said:
An unknown delivery date, combined with an unknown production volume means I keep my money in my pocket
Click to expand...

I agree, this is why I have not jumped into ASIC. I am actually hoping BFL does not deliver as expected so that my GPUs stay profitable longer.

Time will tell...
 
I litecoin mine being that when asics hit and gpu's aren't profitable anymore, lots of people will be switching to litecoin. Litecoin uses scrypt which requires memory which means no fpga or asics is able to mine it with current technology.
 
JJ91284 said:
I litecoin mine being that when asics hit and gpu's aren't profitable anymore, lots of people will be switching to litecoin. Litecoin uses scrypt which requires memory which means no fpga or asics is able to mine it with current technology.
Click to expand...

Heh, so litecoin is the new thing now eh? :) Are you making more on Litecoin than Bitcoin? *Goes to check exchange rate :p

I noticed that some pools are now doing merged mining for both namecoin and bitcoin. Though NMC doesn't seem to be worth much at all, unless you want a .bit domain name..
 
wolfofone said:
Heh, so litecoin is the new thing now eh? :) Are you making more on Litecoin than Bitcoin? *Goes to check exchange rate :p

I noticed that some pools are now doing merged mining for both namecoin and bitcoin. Though NMC doesn't seem to be worth much at all, unless you want a .bit domain name..
Click to expand...

I dont know about litecoin but I know merged mining gives you less that 1% more profit over just BTC alone. I just donate 100% of my NMC to my pool, it is just not worth my time to deal with the exchange.
 
enhanced08 said:
I dont know about litecoin but I know merged mining gives you less that 1% more profit over just BTC alone. I just donate 100% of my NMC to my pool, it is just not worth my time to deal with the exchange.
Click to expand...

Yeah, NMC aren't worth anything :p The last numbers I remember seeing is that 1 NMC= 0.0017 USD :(
 
Well, since butterfly labs now accepts paypal, I have preorded a Jalapeno. At least now if they try and run with my cash I have paypal on my side, versus paying in untracable bitcoins or unrefundable wire transfer.
 
More of a hardware question... Recently exchanged my 6970 for a watercooled 6970. Temps in games range from 50-53ºC, but every time I try to mine for coins within 3-4 minutes the gpu temps start climbing towards 90 before I stop the mining process. Tried pheonix and guiminer with same results. GPU-z shows the 2nd sensor as heating up much faster then the other 2. Any suggestions?
 
Well, makes sense, as games a lot of times aren't 100% GPU 100% of the time, unlike mining. When I mined on my 6970s, both watercooled, temps were about 55C. Gaming loads were about 40C. What is your ambient temp, what rads do you have, and what else is being cooled (CPU, etc)?
 
Ambient temps ~26ºC. MCR320-QP-K 3x120mm cooling i3-530 and the 6970. Currently using 4 Yate loon fans D12SH-12.
 
Hmm. Most curious. I'm cooling 2x 6970 at 1GHz, an i7 2600k at 4.8GHz using two MCR320 and Yate Loon D12SL-12. My ambient temp is lower, but not by much. What block does it have on it? Do you know what TIM was used?
 
sifter said:
More of a hardware question... Recently exchanged my 6970 for a watercooled 6970. Temps in games range from 50-53ºC, but every time I try to mine for coins within 3-4 minutes the gpu temps start climbing towards 90 before I stop the mining process. Tried pheonix and guiminer with same results. GPU-z shows the 2nd sensor as heating up much faster then the other 2. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

That seems a bit hot, can you post pictures of the watercooler you have mounted? Do you have any other heatsinks mounted to the card (such as for the memory)? Is there good airflow? I have a 5870 and don't really pass 70c on a stock cooler with the fan at 100%...
 
Can take pictures a bit later. Card is a XFX HD-697A-CNFC with EK-FC6970 Acetal (double checked to make sure it was the right revision and it is correct) Case cm sniper, with both sides off at the moment. Overall decent airflow. Only one of the 240mm case fans are running at the moment.
 
Just reseat the heatsink and see if that makes a difference. Is your CPU getting hot too? It's in the same loop after all.
 
sifter said:
Can take pictures a bit later. Card is a XFX HD-697A-CNFC with EK-FC6970 Acetal (double checked to make sure it was the right revision and it is correct) Case cm sniper, with both sides off at the moment. Overall decent airflow. Only one of the 240mm case fans are running at the moment.
Click to expand...


Interesting....I'd be willing to bet its the block. I've got the same model card and an ek block as well, two actually, and one of them spikes much worse than the other two. In furmark, one of my xfx and my sapphire non reference hover around 50c but the one other xfx card immediately spikes to 60c and continues to climb towards 85c. It used to go even higher (over 110c originally) until I doubled up on all thermal pads.
 
uhhhh

EK block

was this block used?

EK had a terrible plating fiasco recently
 
since you said it is an EK block, check for the platting issues that were known to happen in some EK blocks manuf. a while back.
 
CPU temps do see a little temperature change (~3ºC), which points to the EK-FC6970 Acetal block. Will reseat the block, but will need thermal pads. Any recommendation for which thermal pads/thickness?

The only plating issue appears to be with nickle platted blocks, which would exclude the block used. Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
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