Bitcoin all time high

[HockeyJon]

Ok, I get it that many people think crypto is the future. But a key difference between crypto and "old fashioned" money is that bank deposits are insured by the US Government, and banking institutions are supervised by the Government to minimize loss to customers and keep the finance system running well. With crypto, if your wallet gets stolen by a hacker, what recourse do you have? Or if the crypto exchange goes out of business? Or doesn't have enough cash on hand to cover redemptions? How is your investment protected?

Educate me.

Hardcore crypto people are more skeptical of government protection than they are of safeguarding it themselves. Their attitude is that if your wallet gets stolen, that's on you for not storing it properly. Do I agree with this? No, but that's how they think.

Further, the other argument is against government seizure. Westerners don't typically have to worry about this, but billions of people are governed by corrupt, totalitarian type governments who can seize their property with no legal checks and balances in place. This is the other argument crypto faithful will make. They don't want the government involved, period, and this is the way to make sure they aren't involved. I personally like a system where you have deposit insurance because it gives people faith and comfort in the banking system and can help lubricate commerce but again, it's not all about what I think, and what I think doesn't define the value other people are putting on a few lines of computer code.

 

[HockeyJon]

I see BTC as more like a baseball card, stamp, art where people competing to own decide the price. Intrinsically it physically can't do anything, now people can rally around it, like a flag, group and promote, proclaim whatever, same pattern humans have done for thousands of years. Making it special in people minds. It can be used to communicate between transactions not inhibited by normal financial means but then so can an email but that is besides the point. It does indeed have some unique qualities in the end, if valuable or not is decided upon by the holders and a level of agreement between them, rules, like in any game. As for a national currency, bad choice:

1. Too limited for the number of transactions per second needed for even a small Country.
2. Deflationary, people would hold vice investing and expanding commerce, building or expanding the economy -> Would anyone use 3 Bitcoin today to build a home and after 10 years sell it for .2 Bitcoin? I would say most would not and that would apply to the rest of the economy.
3. There are superior, better designed Cryptos, almost in every way yet the value is considered less -> yes indeed, more a religious type zeal vice than an actual value
   1. The newer parallel blockchain coins that can handle hundreds of thousands of Transactions per second would be the ones that could become an accepted currency

I actually agree with everything you're saying here, but this doesn't mean Bitcoin is going to zero, because the Bitcoin maximalists don't care what you or I think. Their faith is unshakable.

 

[LukeTbk]

So I guess you forgot about Tesla? They made more off their BTC holdings then selling cars. Microstrategy has a couple billion in BTC (and Morgan Stanley owns ~11% of Microstrategy). If you think companies are shying away from BTC exposure, you're not paying attention.

That felt like an investment to me and not a store of value of a company with too much cash in hand waiting for an opportunity to use it. Testla knew there very action of acquiring it would augment how much people would be ready to pay for it and rise the pricetag.

Specially if they already resold it to make money after such a short time.

Gold is the de facto "store of value" commodity. So just remove oil from the equation and the point is still valid. Gold price fluctuation hasn't discouraged its use.

In occidental context, would the Treasury/bonds type be the defacto store of value and more popular by a giant ratio ? How much gold does Apple/Microsoft hold ?

 

[blade52x]

Never going to happen without becoming regulated. Cypto is here to stay, but deregulated currancies will never be stable enough to be anything more than speculation, if you think otherwise you need more education.

Bitcoin IS regulated... by a decentralized consensus algorithm. It's even more regulated than the USD. Because things like supply, rate of inflation, and the rest of its ruleset cannot be changed unless the decentralized majority of validators agree to change it.

If you want government regulation, stick to fiat legacy markets.

 

[defaultluser]

Bitcoin IS regulated... by a decentralized consensus algorithm. It's even more regulated than the USD.

An entire collective of assholes just out to say to each other "Fuck You, I Got Mine!" doesn't sound like regulation at al.

Isn't the entire purpose of getting into mining to daily brag about your Net-worth in BTC?

I mean, if mining had any saner-guided people in it, they wouldn't by "Perpetually years" away from Proof of Stake, but instead we have Pure Chaos

 

[noko]

I actually agree with everything you're saying here, but this doesn't mean Bitcoin is going to zero, because the Bitcoin maximalists don't care what you or I think. Their faith is unshakable.

You claritied or refined your stance and I pretty much agree with you. There are copycat Bitcoins, same tech, same method to mine, some use a different algorithm but basically Bitcoin with a different name. If it was all about the tech then why wouldn't these be virtually the same going rate as BTC? Your religious explanation relating ideology folks take I think is the the right answer. People I say like to heard, join groups, ideology, us better than than them mentality to endorse and justify their choosing sets in and so on.

 

[noko]

Is Crude used a lot for store of value ?

And that maybe a reason why gold do not tend to be that popular in many part of the world has a store of value either, many people prefer negative bond to it after all.

Storing of Gold also brings liabilities as in thieves wanting to take it from you or family, life threatening danger, then transporting and converting also is not very easy like money or Crypto. Letting someone else store your Gold also makes you subject to them and their possible problems.

Some folks think being your own bank would be wonderful, so do thieves and others knowing you don't have a security blanket, virtually impenetrable safes and guards protecting the valuable items. One reason and probably the main reason Banks came into existence to take that liability away. Owning a couple million dollars worth of BTC, owning your keys right in your home -> maybe not a very good idea where a few finger twists and those keys are now someone else's.

 

[HockeyJon]

You claritied or refined your stance and I pretty much agree with you. There are copycat Bitcoins, same tech, same method to mine, some use a different algorithm but basically Bitcoin with a different name. If it was all about the tech then why wouldn't these be virtually the same going rate as BTC? Your religious explanation relating ideology folks take I think is the the right answer. People I say like to heard, join groups, ideology, us better than than them mentality to endorse and justify their choosing sets in and so on.

There are definite merits to the technology, but a lot of it boils down to this in my view.

In any case, I know a lot of us tech people want it to go away so we can finally buy a freaking GPU, but I don't think it will. Bitcoin is also a strange asset in the sense that the higher in price it goes, the more interesting and desirable it becomes from an investment standpoint because a higher price validates those who say it's going to take over. Most investments are a "buy low, sell high" type approach. Bitcoin is one where you're more hesitant to buy low because it feels like it's being defeated, but it gets validated as the price goes higher. The whole thing is wacky, really, but again, it doesn't matter what I think, because what I think doesn't have anything to do with determining its value.

 

[noko]

There are definite merits to the technology, but a lot of it boils down to this in my view.

In any case, I know a lot of us tech people want it to go away so we can finally buy a freaking GPU, but I don't think it will. Bitcoin is also a strange asset in the sense that the higher in price it goes, the more interesting and desirable it becomes from an investment standpoint because a higher price validates those who say it's going to take over. Most investments are a "buy low, sell high" type approach. Bitcoin is one where you're more hesitant to buy low because it feels like it's being defeated, but it gets validated as the price goes higher. The whole thing is wacky, really, but again, it doesn't matter what I think, because what I think doesn't have anything to do with determining its value.

GPUs, in increasing numbers are going into huge HPC servers, calculating megaliths. Going into multiple gaming streaming services. Being used for Render farms and the video industry -> All at an increasing rate. Being used in automobiles, kioske, AI solutions and the list is growing. Mining is not really the biggest issue with were GPUs are going. When China closed shop for mining in most districts, we did not see a flood of cheap GPUs available, we actually saw a small price drop but it did not last long at all. (Also could be the reason Nvidia slowed down their production, thinking there would be an oversupply which never occurred.)

 

[Aireoth]

Bitcoin IS regulated... by a decentralized consensus algorithm. It's even more regulated than the USD. Because things like supply, rate of inflation, and the rest of its ruleset cannot be changed unless the decentralized majority of validators agree to change it.

If you want government regulation, stick to fiat legacy markets.

 

[GreenLaser]

That a strange sentence, none of those are only a storage for value ? And stable is a relative term, people that had house in certain section of Detroit could disagree about being stable over time.


Think about who are having their value stolen, those are only the bank and other that made a loan with fix interest rate over a long enough horizon ? (and people with those loans being the big winners), a lot of them if the inflation is brought back under control with an interest rise, will gain a lot by that return I would imagine. Are they really the one pushing crypto

That a strange sentence, none of those are only a storage for value ? And stable is a relative term, people that had house in certain section of Detroit could disagree about being stable over time.


Think about who are having their value stolen, those are only the bank and other that made a loan with fix interest rate over a long enough horizon ? (and people with those loans being the big winners), a lot of them if the inflation is brought back under control with an interest rise, will gain a lot by that return I would imagine. Are they really the one pushing crypto ?

Detroit ...is it an anomaly that places generationally trapped by a powerful political gang don't seem to be doing very well? My mother could not give her Detroit house away when she finally left. But lived in it for 30+ years for next to nothing so no real loss of value. In other localities not choosing self destructive politics. Purchasing a property using "Today's dollars" you could liquidate it later for tomorrows "inflated dollars" retrieving the adjusted stored value.

Agreed the banks will eat the inflationary loss but a banks part in this scheme is merely to exchange the monetary units they are given at a NEGATIVE interest rate. And legal changes made after the last bubble means that catastrophic losses will be coming from depositors account and not the fed. R WE ready to pay for that one? The "Middle Class" could be gutted in a single day!

Point is that a transparent digital monetary system beyond human tampering would be a system that REWARDS ECONOMIC HONESTY AND GOOD IDEAS AND STAMPS OUT TOTAL BS ECONOMIC IDEAS. This is not popular with those that want to pwn you.

 

[philb2]

I actually agree with everything you're saying here, but this doesn't mean Bitcoin is going to zero, because the Bitcoin maximalists don't care what you or I think. Their faith is unshakable.

Understood, and I was only trying to say why I don't buy into that faith. It takes all kinds, as the old saying goes.

 

[kirbyrj]

Specially if they already resold it to make money after such a short time.

Except they didn't sell it all. They only sold ~10% and their balance sheet has some $2.5 billion in BTC still on it.

 

[philb2]

I keep seeing ads on cable TV for BTC investments and PayPal is also getting into the act. If typical stock market behavior is any indication, by the time the 'retail investor' jumps into the market, all the profits have been made by the insiders. It's the 'little guys' (like my ex-MIL) who always get cleaned out.

 

[LukeTbk]

Except they didn't sell it all. They only sold ~10% and their balance sheet has some $2.5 billion in BTC still on it.

Not sure what was meant by made money then ? I imagine a shortcut way to say gained value ? But if that the case considering how much the stock exploded (for no reason of bitcoin,a ll from their car selling business) I am not sure it would be true.

But I am not sure how and why an exploding in growth young company would be interest in sleeping money in a storage of value, to me it felt like a clear investment the way they talked about it (and you has well)

Detroit ...is it an anomaly that places generationally trapped by a powerful political gang don't seem to be doing very well? .... Purchasing a property using "Today's dollars" you could liquidate it later for tomorrows "inflated dollars" retrieving the adjusted stored value.

Not so sure why adding the qualificative here, it is not that rare of an anomaly (I am sure quite high swing up or down has been really common), it would been way more common to purchase a house in at the day dollar and reselling year 30 year's later for less in those days dollar than say the S&P500 (that never occurred in 200 years of stock market), if one look in the 2000s, housing has not been that particularly stable, just look at the last 18 months, there was large uptick in price in many place.

 

[DPI]

62k.

Will this bitcoin shit ever end?

Not today sweetie

Not today

 

[noko]

Detroit ...is it an anomaly that places generationally trapped by a powerful political gang don't seem to be doing very well? My mother could not give her Detroit house away when she finally left. But lived in it for 30+ years for next to nothing so no real loss of value. In other localities not choosing self destructive politics. Purchasing a property using "Today's dollars" you could liquidate it later for tomorrows "inflated dollars" retrieving the adjusted stored value.

Agreed the banks will eat the inflationary loss but a banks part in this scheme is merely to exchange the monetary units they are given at a NEGATIVE interest rate. And legal changes made after the last bubble means that catastrophic losses will be coming from depositors account and not the fed. R WE ready to pay for that one? The "Middle Class" could be gutted in a single day!

Point is that a transparent digital monetary system beyond human tampering would be a system that REWARDS ECONOMIC HONESTY AND GOOD IDEAS AND STAMPS OUT TOTAL BS ECONOMIC IDEAS. This is not popular with those that want to pwn you.

All Crypto are result of human tampering, programming, implementation and maintenance, are you saying alien created money? Pump and dump are human interactions tampering the price of Crypto. 51% attack defeats the purpose of the records on the block chain which some Crypto, very few address or try to. Hard Forks and even Soft Forks are human tempering that mathematical system with changes. Meaning a controlling entity has jurisdiction on that mathematical formula. There are now over 9000 Crypto's and growing, at this rate in 10 years there will be over 100,000 -> Is that not a form of inflation? Just unending different and even same versions being copied over and over again. Crypto has a potential to be more like a cancer that grows uncontrollably, people putting faith in endless chains which was created out of nothing, putting real value or items in trade for a key to a number of coins in a wallet. In the end people will decide to govern or not Crypto, what is allowed or not, set requirements, if accepted for payment. Frankly human tampering or control maybe much preferred in the end.

 

[Gideon]

Not today sweetie

Not today

View attachment 408972

Sometimes things go wrong as well, like Enron.

 

[philb2]

Pump and dump are human interactions tampering the price of Crypto. 51% attack defeats the purpose of the records on the block chain which some Crypto, very few address or try to.

+1

Just unending different and even same versions being copied over and over again. Crypto has a potential to be more like a cancer that grows uncontrollably, people putting faith in endless chains which was created out of nothing, putting real value or items in trade for a key to a number of coins in a wallet. In the end people will decide to govern or not Crypto, what is allowed or not, set requirements, if accepted for payment. Frankly human tampering or control maybe much preferred in the end.

+5
noko is one perceptive dude.

 

[noko]

+1

+5
noko is one perceptive dude.

Why thanks, just trying to look at all angles as much as possible and wish I was 10x more perceptive as well. I hope discussions go beyond the usual Crypto and Anti Crypto talk and start digging much deeper with as much objectivism as possible. The uptrend of Crypto in the last year is huge, should be setting off some alarm bells as well for many on what is going to happen in the next 3-10 years. Positive, negative, combination of both. Disruptive methods/tech and especially new financial models can be hugely disruptive for good or bad.

 

[blade52x]

View attachment 408856

Counter it then.

 

[kirbyrj]

Not sure what was meant by made money then ? I imagine a shortcut way to say gained value ? But if that the case considering how much the stock exploded (for no reason of bitcoin,a ll from their car selling business) I am not sure it would be true.

But I am not sure how and why an exploding in growth young company would be interest in sleeping money in a storage of value, to me it felt like a clear investment the way they talked about it (and you has well)

You're arguing semantics when you know (or should know) how a corporate balance sheet works. Their holdings whether or not they sold their BTC has increased in value and it is reflected on their balance sheet. You can invest in something that can function as a store of value (e.g. people buy gold all the time as an investment). They aren't mutually exclusive terms.

 

[Aireoth]

Counter it then.

Libertarian dreams won't translate to reality, bitcoin is not regulated at all, its constantly pumped and dumped, manipulation is rampant and like clockwork peaks in the fall/winter and crashes for the spring summer.

Just because bitcoin supply is controlled doesn't mean its regulated, and your blather about decentralized consensus and majority just shows how little you understand about the basis of trade, power, and frankly the 'decentralized majority' or as they are really called, jane and joe public and the entities that own more than jane and joe public could ever hope to. This idea that somehow the masses will be able to govern anything to the degree require to create stability needed to become the world currency is at best the creation of a new government in which all ills woes and problems of todays existing governments will also be created, flushing the libertarian dreams of the true beleiver down the drain.

Sure its here to stay, but it won't be the world currency until its completely regulated.

I am going to laugh if your dreams come true, because you just created a new government made up of the worlds worst billionaires with no ability to have any say. It won't be the freedom you imagine it to be, it will largely just be more money for the existing rich. These people are worse than the politicians and establishments you rail against, but you are less aware of it because they don't dominate the news cycles and thus your brainspace.

 

[crazycrave]

I seen Matt Damon talking about Crypto in a TV ad .. I was watching WS at the time and it's like watching a virus of greed that has no end in site .

 

[Gideon]

Libertarian dreams won't translate to reality, bitcoin is not regulated at all, its constantly pumped and dumped, manipulation is rampant and like clockwork peaks in the fall/winter and crashes for the spring summer.

Just because bitcoin supply is controlled doesn't mean its regulated, and your blather about decentralized consensus and majority just shows how little you understand about the basis of trade, power, and frankly the 'decentralized majority' or as they are really called, jane and joe public and the entities that own more than jane and joe public could ever hope to. This idea that somehow the masses will be able to govern anything to the degree require to create stability needed to become the world currency is at best the creation of a new government in which all ills woes and problems of todays existing governments will also be created, flushing the libertarian dreams of the true beleiver down the drain.

Sure its hear to stay, but it won't be the world currency until its completely regulated.

I am going to laugh if your dreams come true, because you just created a new government made up of the worlds worst billionaires with no ability to have any say. It won't be the freedom you imagine it to be, it will largely just be more money for the existing rich. These people are worse than the politicians and establishments you rail against, but you are less aware of it because they don't dominate the news cycles and thus your brainspace.

You pretty much spot on, before many banking regulations came into place, banks pretty much served the wealthy only and the average guy was locked out of most bank services or if they did help them it was close to extortion rates or take their cash and use pump and dump schemes. If the wealthy have complete control of the money the average person is not going to be happy.

 

[LukeTbk]

You're arguing semantics when you know (or should know) how a corporate balance sheet works. Their holdings whether or not they sold their BTC has increased in value and it is reflected on their balance sheet. You can invest in something that can function as a store of value (e.g. people buy gold all the time as an investment). They aren't mutually exclusive terms.

All fair enough it is maybe just the press/commentary around it, that made it sound like it was more akin to a company buying stock in a start up and interest in a high volatile with high upside has a risky investment than your traditional too much cash in hands storing some of it in some vehicle because you have to wait for some opportunities, scenario (but you could be fully right there).

because you just created a new government made up of the worlds worst billionaires with no ability to have any say. It won't be the freedom you imagine it to be

One "risk" that a new ultra globalist world order of an internet world crypto would seem to almost certainly have is what happen to all those online world market a la Spotify, a giant hockey stick curve phenomenon where the proportion of winners diminish and the gap explode between the few popular and the rest, world viral investment opportunity that make one AMC after an other, instead of the more each local/regional investing locally in what they know. The others being the obvious 1929 crisis, where 33% of the money getting out of circulation making the situation (that had no link with a real world issue, purely financial panic) worst and self realizing. Could go in many ways obviously.

 

[blade52x]

Libertarian dreams won't translate to reality, bitcoin is not regulated at all, its constantly pumped and dumped, manipulation is rampant and like clockwork peaks in the fall/winter and crashes for the spring summer.

Just because bitcoin supply is controlled doesn't mean its regulated, and your blather about decentralized consensus and majority just shows how little you understand about the basis of trade, power, and frankly the 'decentralized majority' or as they are really called, jane and joe public and the entities that own more than jane and joe public could ever hope to. This idea that somehow the masses will be able to govern anything to the degree require to create stability needed to become the world currency is at best the creation of a new government in which all ills woes and problems of todays existing governments will also be created, flushing the libertarian dreams of the true beleiver down the drain.

Sure its here to stay, but it won't be the world currency until its completely regulated.

I am going to laugh if your dreams come true, because you just created a new government made up of the worlds worst billionaires with no ability to have any say. It won't be the freedom you imagine it to be, it will largely just be more money for the existing rich. These people are worse than the politicians and establishments you rail against, but you are less aware of it because they don't dominate the news cycles and thus your brainspace.

In self-governed blockchains, voting power is directly proportional to holdings. And that's only because right now linear rulesets have been created. Even if voting power is decreased per holdings, billionaires would still have plenty if not the majority of say.

Bitcoin, Ethereum, and etc aren't going to become world currencies in the manner that 99% of misguided outsiders think the insiders believe they are. They're are the currencies that process their networks. That's all. And if the future of the technology is going to be built on top a network like Ethereum, while Bitcoin maintains itself as the most secure settlement network... they might as well become world-reserve currencies because they are backed by their utility - they will never be completely worthless so long as someone needs to process a transaction on either of their networks.

It's also not about the public being able to govern. It's also about the governing, the hedge funds, etc all being forced to play a much more fair game, because not only can a single entity not bend the rules, but decentralized public ledgers are... public?

As far as them being the worse billionaires of the world... look at where we are today:

• Great Resignation.
• /r/antiwork being one the fastest growing subreddits.
• Two presidents with back-to-back lowest approval ratings in history.
• The highest inflation seen in decades.
• Biggest wealth gap since what - the Roman Empire?
• GME flat out exposing the legacy fiat markets are without a doubt, rigged against the little guy (not the case in DeFi-land). And who got in trouble? Just like 2008, no one.

I'd rather try a new generation of billionaires because the last ones are failing us. That's not to discredit what they have done and what they have provided and built for us, but sh*t is breaking and it's breaking fast. And you know what's sad about it all? A lot of people at the bottom are blaming and fighting each other. That's the society my son has to look forward to unless we can somehow move towards a more fair world, and cryptocurrencies like Ethereum are the only good path forward right now. Because if all of human history couldn't create a sustainable one, then maybe we might just need algorithms where the rulesets are really difficult to adjust, to start enforcing rules for us.

 

[Aireoth]

In self-governed blockchains, voting power is directly proportional to holdings. And that's only because right now linear rulesets have been created. Even if voting power is decreased per holdings, billionaires would still have plenty if not the majority of say.

Bitcoin, Ethereum, and etc aren't going to become world currencies. They're are the currencies that process their networks. That's all. And if the future of the world is going to be built on top of Ethereum, while Bitcoin maintains itself as the most secure settlement network... they might as well become world-reserve currencies because they are backed by their utility.

It's also not about the public being able to govern. It's about the governing, the hedge funds, etc all being forced to play a much more fair game, because not only can a single entity not bend the rules, but decentralized public ledgers are... public?

As far as them being the worse billionaires of the world... look at where we are today:

• Great Resignation.
• /r/antiwork being one the fastest growing subreddits.
• Two presidents with back-to-back lowest approval ratings.
• The highest inflation seen in decades.
• Biggest wealth gap since what - the Roman Empire?
• GME proving the legacy fiat markets are without a doubt, rigged against the little guy (not the case in DeFi-land)

I'd rather try a new generation of billionaires because the last ones have failed us. That's not to discredit what they have done and what they have provided us, but sh*t is breaking and it's breaking fast.

Shit isn't breaking, whats happening is the world is grappling with transitioning from nations to global governance.

Since you want to shift to Eth, its the same thing, this will never replace standard currency as the defacto of trade until it is completely regulated, they will not become word currency because they are not regulated, they are manipulated to an extreme.

I don't buy what you are selling, taking points fed to you by someone else with no understanding of the complexities of reality.

If crypto becomes fully regulated and controlled, eliminating the ponzi scheme and pump and dump, sure it can become the world currency, but it will also cease to be what you want it to be.

 

[LukeTbk]

• The highest inflation seen in decades.
• Biggest wealth gap since what - the Roman Empire?
• GME flat out exposing the legacy fiat markets are without a doubt, rigged against the little guy (not the case in DeFi-land). And who got in trouble? No one...

Not sure about all those

Highest inflation since 1990 is quite bad yes
I would have thought the late 20s for the latest time with that type of wealth gap
Not sure what GME exposed ? Specially without a doubt and the the notion of rigged against the little guy, that not my impression nor the impression of people that investigated.

 

[blade52x]

Since you want to shift to Eth, its the same thing, this will never replace standard currency as the defacto of trade until it is completely regulated, they will not become word currency because they are not regulated, they are manipulated to an extreme.

Fiat already runs and trades over Ethereum. Some of you outsiders seem to believe they can't co-exist, at least for a while.

And honestly, I could care less if cryptos ever become regulated. They haven't needed regulation to get to where they are today. How do you even regulate something like Bitcoin or Ethereum? Plus, if anyone believes Bitcoin and Ethereum and ponzi schemes, they're free to stay out. Nobody is forcing you to purchase any. Even in the future if you have some financial application running on top of Ethereum - whatever dollars you deposit into it will be converted into Ethereum and back behind the scenes to pay for and process transactions on the network. You'll never have to touch any crypto, even if cryptos "take over".

 

[defaultluser]

It's also not about the public being able to govern. It's also about the governing, the hedge funds, etc all being forced to play a much more fair game, because not only can a single entity not bend the rules, but decentralized public ledgers are... public?

How does things like Hedge Funds get "better-governed" in a Bright Crypto Future, when we already allow hundreds of millions of dollars for Ransomware Payment (soon to be Billions, if that 300% increase last year is any indication) to disappear with little tracking?

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/06/the...-the-shadowy-world-of-ransomware-payouts.html

Why should I be able to trust a criminal in North Korea more than a Helge fund operator here in my own country? The reality is there is no Paradise of Regulation By Blockchain - too many participants are too busy doing the "Fuck You, Got Mine!" dance to care any more than that Hedge Fund manager!

When all members of your Block Chain are driven by pure Greed, there's nothinbg new to bee learned form it

 

[blade52x]

Those two things aren't even remotely related to each other, so I'm not going to engage in the decade old argument of criminal use. When something like Monero has been dropping in crypto rankings for the past few years as legitimate use cases now dominate the bulk of transactions in the crypto world. As crypto grows, of course the number of ransoms will grow. But you know what's growing even faster? Legitimate use. All I can say is pay your security officers a fair wage and maybe you'll have the defenses to prevent a ransomware attack.

Edit: And if your angle may have been the NK criminal having "voting rights" on a self-governed network - criminals like that are the minority in the ecosystem. Billions of dollars is nothing when the value of cryptos are now in the trillions. They are nothing compared to what institutions are brining in and the voting rights they will have on any self-governed networks.

 

[defaultluser]

Those two things aren't even remotely related to each other, so I'm not going to engage in the decade old argument of criminal use. When something like Monero has been dropping in crypto rankings for the past few years as legitimate use cases now dominate the bulk of transactions in the crypto world. As crypto grows, of course the number of ransoms will grow. But you know what's growing even faster? Legitimate use. All I can say is pay your security officers a fair wage and maybe you'll have the defenses to prevent a ransomware attack.

Edit: And if your angle may have been the NK criminal having "voting rights" on a self-governed network - criminals like that are the minority in the ecosystem. Billions of dollars is nothing when the value of cryptos are now in the trillions. They are nothing compared to what institutions are brining in and the voting rights they will have on any self-governed networks.

Obviously, the old "if I cover my eyes, these criminals don't exist" always works...for 12 year olds.

The majority of Crypto transfers get around checks done with large money transfers in your banks account, as well as large transfers of stock from one recipient to another - they're mostly Grey Market at the best (and outright illegal at the worst).

Unles you have the FBI tracking you, then it's all easy to pretend "I did nothing illegal here, I paid like 10k in Bitttcoins for my legal motorcycle, while the remaining 1 million in BTC I handed over secretly for drugs"

 

[blade52x]

Fine, but just recognize that a crypto transfer is nothing more than a state change of the blockchain, which requires the native crypto to pay for that state change. The majority of Ethereum state changes now involve smart contracts, and things like NFTs that have nothing to do with transferring crypto from one account to another. Moving money around is just one thing these networks (beyond Bitcoin) are really good at, but not the only thing. Whether or not you want to argue that a decentralized database isn't good for a lot of use cases isn't going to change the fact that a lot of people are adopting the technology because there is value to a plug-and-play secure and tamper-proof database.

For better or worse, we didn't stop the internet from freely growing an evolving despite the new digital pathway it opened up for criminals.

 

[defaultluser]

Fine, but just recognize that a crypto transfer is nothing more than a state change of the blockchain, which requires the native crypto to pay for that state change. The majority of Ethereum state changes now involve smart contracts, and things like NFTs that have nothing to do with transferring crypto from one account to another. Moving money around is just one thing these .

Ah, NFT - yer another worthless gimmick dreamed-up by scammers.

https://kotaku.com/nft-buyers-scammed-as-creator-bails-who-could-possibly-1847806528


There is no wqay to gurantee that any offering with an NFT attached to it comes from a reputable person, nor if they will ever deliver on the goods..

 

[blade52x]

Ah, another person will never realize the value of a indisputable unique certificate of ownership, because all he reads are the sensational headlines that demonize the space because it is unregulated and full of speculators getting ripped off. I personally think most NFTs are stupid and useless. But that doesn't stop me from realizing the NFT itself is an amazing innovation of the technology. And just a flat out amazing invention period.

 

[pippenainteasy]

Not sure about all those

Highest inflation since 1990 is quite bad yes
I would have thought the late 20s for the latest time with that type of wealth gap
Not sure what GME exposed ? Specially without a doubt and the the notion of rigged against the little guy, that not my impression nor the impression of people that investigated.

In 1920s the median single family house cost around $6000 and the median individual income was around $2200.

Today the median income is $44,000 but the median single family house costs $380,000. Even if you account for differences in average square footage, housing prices (generally the largest part of an individual's expenses) are at least double what they were during the roaring 20s relative to income.

 

[LukeTbk]

In 1920s the median single family house cost around $6000 and the median individual income was around $2200.

Today the median income is $44,000 but the median single family house costs $380,000. Even if you account for differences in average square footage, housing prices (generally the largest part of an individual's expenses) are at least double what they were during the roaring 20s relative to income.

I am not sure to which point you are addressing, I imagine wealth gap ?

I feel actual mensuality versus income (and household income not just median income)

The house size more up by more than 2.5x since I think (compare the median house over time can be a bit like the median car and looking at the price of a Corolla over time when the Corolla of today is bigger than the Camry of the past), people buy themselve 5 time more house by person than back in the days, which seem to indicate that people got much richer, but buy more:

It is true that by square feet it is really constant over time and it is not something that got cheaper, but I am not sure what it tell us about wealth gap that the median household can afford such high price and such big house, is that a sign of the median being the rich of yesterday and a diminution of the wealth gap of it's rise ?

 

[philb2]

Should we ask the moderators to rename this forum? Crypto Economics? Crypto Love? Crypto Hate?

 

[noko]

Ah, NFT - yer another worthless gimmick dreamed-up by scammers.

https://kotaku.com/nft-buyers-scammed-as-creator-bails-who-could-possibly-1847806528


There is no wqay to gurantee that any offering with an NFT attached to it comes from a reputable person, nor if they will ever deliver on the goods..

Goes deeper, buy NFT for a few $s, sell it to yourself for 1 million or whatever you want to launder. IRS asks "where did you get all that money? " You say "I sold art, it is all kosher, someone appreciated and thanked me for that piece of art which made them very happy too". Looking at the junk being sold for an image which well you can already see, copy and everyone else who cares (probably not that many) and thinking because that image is associated with you by some magical way on a blockchain, regardless, an image everyone can already copy and paste, delete somehow gives you some special value. WAT??? Insanity before the crash? Red flags definitely.

https://opensea.io/collection/cool-cats-nft?search[sortAscending]=false&search[sortBy]=PRICE