Bitcoin all time high

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Everytime I wonder if it ever ends -- I zoom out on the charts and take a look at the wild booms and crashes over the last 10 years.

And remind myself that 1 year ago it was approximately $12k and 5 years ago it was approximately $700.


What goes up, must come down... how far down, that is the question.
 
Parja said:
Nope!
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Sure it will. Look at the fluctuations over time of the price of gold, another asset that does not pay interest or dividends.

As long as interest rates are very low by historical standards, it's OK to hold Bitcoin. When (not IF) inflation starts to bite hard, and interest rates all over the world go up, BitCoin will drop. (So will purely speculative stocks like Gamestop.)
 
philb2 said:
Sure it will. Look at the fluctuations over time of the price of gold, another asset that does not pay interest or dividends.
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Considering how popular gold was during antiquity and still being used now I am not sure it is a good argument over Bitcoin eventually ending, but maybe by shit people mean rapid change in is perceived value ?

That said, considering how limited and primitives' it is versus other crypto, maybe it will not stay relevant for thousand of year's and will eventually end.
 
Crypto has evolved far beyond Bitcoin. All the shit-tokens that exist now trade on what may be remembered as the prototype versions of future mainstream decentralized and transparent financial systems. Bitcoin more or less exists as a store-of-value in this system, like gold does in the legacy financial markets.

It ends 1 of 2 ways:
1. Government intervention, blocking the advancement of technology to protect their own boomer driven self-interests (leading to eventual capitalist collapse)
2. When the decentralized and transparent financial systems of the future replace the dated legacy markets - Bitcoin will likely be as steady as gold is now in the legacy markets
 
It's not going to stop. It's spilling over to areas where it actually gains more tangible value. There's one coin which I won't name that for example acts as 'monopoly money' for a hub for freelancers and companies looking for freelancers.

Artists who want to gain internet points are now binding their output with crypto, literally. I mean the 'artwork' that exists on the blockchain. You can take a screenshot of it, sure, but you can also photocopy the Mona Lisa. It's worth something to some, collectors, if anything.

These are the two examples I'm seeing myself while learning about wtf is happening in this regard.

Is it good? I don't know, I don't have all the info yet.
 
Jester1550 said:
What goes up, must come down... how far down, that is the question.
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I remember AOL chatrooms being dismissive of the internet. And me with my investment in a 16-line BBS system also tried to cope "internet seems like a waste of time".

The internet of money is here to stay. The fact just won't click for everyone until more time passes and they have the perspective of hindsight to realize what happened.
 
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DPI said:
I remember AOL chatrooms being dismissive of the internet. And me with my investment in a 16-line BBS system also tried to cope "internet seems like a waste of time".

The internet of money is here to stay. The fact just won't click for everyone until more time passes and they have the perspective of hindsight to realize what happened.
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A/S/L? 😁

Def agree it's here to stay -- but as I said above, how low will it fall?
 
multi-tasking_guy said:
BItcoin will become the worlds reserve standard and currencies of the world will become a thing of the past. The USD(BANKER PONZI MONEY) will crash.

Checkmate
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Never going to happen without becoming regulated. Cypto is here to stay, but deregulated currancies will never be stable enough to be anything more than speculation, if you think otherwise you need more education.
 
Aireoth said:
Never going to happen without becoming regulated. Cypto is here to stay, but deregulated currancies will never be stable enough to be anything more than speculation, if you think otherwise you need more education.
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@Aireoth
Ever hear of SWIFT? They aren't likely to adopt any crypto any time soon. All those international trade contracts denominated in US dollars, etc.
 
philb2 said:
So what do you say to this? https://finance.yahoo.com/news/coinbase-user-lost-11-6-102201904.html
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People have been getting scammed ever since one man had more than another. I remember when aol was everyone's go to internet choice, and people would give out their login info, or credit card numbers at an alarming rate, just not having enough common sense to protect them. Anytime you work with a financial institution, they will outright tell you up front the only ways they will ever contact you, if they will ever contact you. Individuals that have an inability to learn this, which some of you may call foolish, are still 'victims' of scams on a regular basis.

Crypto is just a good target right now for a lot of reasons, it's harder to follow, and identify individuals involved, and can be sent over boarders without any type of monitoring or check to stop it in progress. Anytime crypto rises, so do the number of shady individuals that try to deprive investors of their coins. Always use best practices, otherwise it won't be your money for long.
 
philb2 said:
Sure it will. Look at the fluctuations over time of the price of gold, another asset that does not pay interest or dividends.

As long as interest rates are very low by historical standards, it's OK to hold Bitcoin. When (not IF) inflation starts to bite hard, and interest rates all over the world go up, BitCoin will drop. (So will purely speculative stocks like Gamestop.)
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Bitcoin is now a religion. Whenever the thesis surrounding its purpose is defeated, the faithful simply assign another and keep buying. The core group of Bitcoiners literally think it will be the next reserve currency and are never selling. It’s not going to zero, they can’t kill it. Even with better cryptocurrency concepts emerging, Bitcoin still leads the pack. The value will fluctuate, but it’s not going to die.
 
HockeyJon said:
Bitcoin is now a religion. Whenever the thesis surrounding its purpose is defeated, the faithful simply assign another and keep buying. The core group of Bitcoiners literally think it will be the next reserve currency and are never selling. It’s not going to zero, they can’t kill it. Even with better cryptocurrency concepts emerging, Bitcoin still leads the pack. The value will fluctuate, but it’s not going to die.
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Yes, the Titanic is an unsinkable built ship, all bow it's seaworthy greatness.
 
noko said:
Yes, the Titanic is an unsinkable built ship, all bow it's seaworthy greatness.
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The Titanic was actually not claimed to be unsinkable without qualification to that statement, contrary to popular belief. The shipbuilders themselves didn't even go that far.

Useless trivia aside, my point still stands, and your analogy isn't even related to my statement and the reasons I gave for why Bitcoin is here to stay at this point.
 
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HockeyJon said:
The value will fluctuate, but it’s not going to die.
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You think that from now to the year's 3000 it would not have been replaced by the newer crypto ?

My brain way more agnostic about any of those statement, not able to simulate the world in that regard, with statement like this:
Cypto is here to stay, but deregulated currancies will never be stable enough to be anything more than speculation, if you think otherwise you need more education.

I feel being too strong.
 
HockeyJon said:
The Titanic was actually not claimed to be unsinkable without qualification to that statement, contrary to popular belief. The shipbuilders themselves didn't even go that far.

Useless trivia aside, my point still stands, and your analogy isn't even related to my statement and the reasons I gave for why Bitcoin is here to stay at this point.
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Neither was Bitcoin by creator or creators ever claimed BTC to be immortal. It, like the Titanic had believers that believed whatever they believed. You believe it will never die as in it will never become worthless, there is no way for you to know that.

https://www.historyonthenet.com/the-titanic-why-did-people-believe-titanic-was-unsinkable
 
HockeyJon said:
Bitcoin is now a religion. Whenever the thesis surrounding its purpose is defeated, the faithful simply assign another and keep buying. The core group of Bitcoiners literally think it will be the next reserve currency and are never selling. It’s not going to zero, they can’t kill it. Even with better cryptocurrency concepts emerging, Bitcoin still leads the pack. The value will fluctuate, but it’s not going to die.
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Any currency or store of value that "fluctuates" a lot will never gain widespread acceptance where it counts.
 
philb2 said:
Any currency or store of value that "fluctuates" a lot will never gain widespread acceptance where it counts.
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I see BTC as more like a baseball card, stamp, art where people competing to own decide the price. Intrinsically it physically can't do anything, now people can rally around it, like a flag, group and promote, proclaim whatever, same pattern humans have done for thousands of years. Making it special in people minds. It can be used to communicate between transactions not inhibited by normal financial means but then so can an email but that is besides the point. It does indeed have some unique qualities in the end, if valuable or not is decided upon by the holders and a level of agreement between them, rules, like in any game. As for a national currency, bad choice:
  1. Too limited for the number of transactions per second needed for even a small Country.
  2. Deflationary, people would hold vice investing and expanding commerce, building or expanding the economy -> Would anyone use 3 Bitcoin today to build a home and after 10 years sell it for .2 Bitcoin? I would say most would not and that would apply to the rest of the economy.
  3. There are superior, better designed Cryptos, almost in every way yet the value is considered less -> yes indeed, more a religious type zeal vice than an actual value
    1. The newer parallel blockchain coins that can handle hundreds of thousands of Transactions per second would be the ones that could become an accepted currency
 
Complex "Money" arguments are being made that can obfuscate core fundamental truths. Understanding fundamentals helps with making financial decisions without need to understand larger picture.

National monetary systems are tools of control and under constant manipulation.
Crypto's are a rational reaction to escape that control.
monetary systems based on paper require absolute trust to survive. Does Brandon and his crew instill trust?
Crypto's rely on unbreakable mathematical calculations to instill trust. Do we trust the mathematics are not breakable?
Intrinsically valuable things like gold, silver and property are only a storage for value and are inherently stable over time.
All price fluctuations of intrinsically valuable things are a mirror reflection of the instability of the monetary system valuing them.

The current theft of value by inflationary policies is real and is a one way street. When/If policy is brought back under control those whose value was taken is not returned. The more aggressively inflationary policies continue the more certainty Crypto will continue to evolve to escape it.
 
GreenLaser said:
Intrinsically valuable things like gold, silver and property are only a storage for value and are inherently stable over time.
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That a strange sentence, none of those are only a storage for value ? And stable is a relative term, people that had house in certain section of Detroit could disagree about being stable over time.

GreenLaser said:
The current theft of value by inflationary policies is real and is a one way street. When/If policy is brought back under control those whose value was taken is not returned.
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Think about who are having their value stolen, those are only the bank and other that made a loan with fix interest rate over a long enough horizon ? (and people with those loans being the big winners), a lot of them if the inflation is brought back under control with an interest rise, will gain a lot by that return I would imagine. Are they really the one pushing crypto ?
 
kirbyrj said:
An ounce of gold has been as low as $1049 and as high as $2067 in the past 10 years.

West Texas Crude has been as low as $11.26 and as high as $110.62 in the past 10 years.

So tell me again how price fluctuation means things never gain widespread acceptance?
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Is Crude used a lot for store of value ?

And that maybe a reason why gold do not tend to be that popular in many part of the world has a store of value either, many people prefer negative bond to it after all.
 
To be fair, crude was like negative 42 a barrel. Makes sense, amirite.
 
LukeTbk said:
Is Crude used a lot for store of value ?

And that maybe a reason why gold do not tend to be that popular in many part of the world has a store of value either, many people prefer negative bond to it after all.
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I'm just pointing out that fluctuating pricing of commodities happens in areas with widespread acceptance.
 
kirbyrj said:
I'm just pointing out that fluctuating pricing of commodities happens in areas with widespread acceptance.
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It was very specifically about currency or store of value, not commodities in general I think, even tickets can have wild fkuctuating price, that peak 5 minutes the events and crash 10 minutes later, they are incredibly widespread but no company or government with billions on their hands to store would consider them.
 
I think it will continue to go up over time, but this is not a precious metal. People need to remember that. If world governments decide to put an end to crypto, they can quite easily. It's 100% reliant on infrastructure that governments have tight control over.

Gold? Even during world wars or even when the government 'outlawed' it, it always had value. Crypto is 100% as useless as WoW currency if you don't have the networks and computers. Gold is always there, no matter what.

Personally, I think your money is better spent on real commodities right now and land given inflation. There's a reason why all the major investment firms are buying land like crazy. They're sheltering from inflation. This is also why crypto is up, but again, crypto isn't a bar of gold, or land.
 
Mchart said:
I think it will continue to go up over time, but this is not a precious metal. People need to remember that. If world governments decide to put an end to crypto, they can quite easily. It's 100% reliant on infrastructure that governments have tight control over.

Gold? Even during world wars or even when the government 'outlawed' it, it always had value. Crypto is 100% as useless as WoW currency if you don't have the networks and computers. Gold is always there, no matter what.

Personally, I think your money is better spent on real commodities right now and land given inflation. There's a reason why all the major investment firms are buying land like crazy. They're sheltering from inflation. This is also why crypto is up, but again, crypto isn't a bar of gold, or land.
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Ok, I get it that many people think crypto is the future. But a key difference between crypto and "old fashioned" money is that bank deposits are insured by the US Government, and banking institutions are supervised by the Government to minimize loss to customers and keep the finance system running well. With crypto, if your wallet gets stolen by a hacker, what recourse do you have? Or if the crypto exchange goes out of business? Or doesn't have enough cash on hand to cover redemptions? How is your investment protected?

Educate me.
 
philb2 said:
Ok, I get it that many people think crypto is the future. But a key difference between crypto and "old fashioned" money is that bank deposits are insured by the US Government, and banking institutions are supervised by the Government to minimize loss to customers and keep the finance system running well. With crypto, if your wallet gets stolen by a hacker, what recourse do you have? Or if the crypto exchange goes out of business? Or doesn't have enough cash on hand to cover redemptions? How is your investment protected?

Educate me.
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You have no recourse. On the other hand, with bitcoin you no longer have to worry about your country outlawing your money and seizing it to pay for their debts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102

pippenainteasy said:
Literally the day J Powell announces a rate hike
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This is the only reasonable answer I see in this thread, but it would lead to an economic meltdown at the same time, so it's not being allowed to happen. Instead, you'll just lose everything due to inflation.
 
LukeTbk said:
It was very specifically about currency or store of value, not commodities in general I think, even tickets can have wild fkuctuating price, that peak 5 minutes the events and crash 10 minutes later, they are incredibly widespread but no company or government with billions on their hands to store would consider them.
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Gold is the de facto "store of value" commodity. So just remove oil from the equation and the point is still valid. Gold price fluctuation hasn't discouraged its use.

So I guess you forgot about Tesla? They made more off their BTC holdings then selling cars. Microstrategy has a couple billion in BTC (and Morgan Stanley owns ~11% of Microstrategy). If you think companies are shying away from BTC exposure, you're not paying attention.
 
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Epyon said:
62k.

Will this bitcoin shit ever end?
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Bitcoin Is Limited to 21 Million​

Under the mining system, it might seem like there would be no limit to the amount of Bitcoin that could be produced. However, the way its source code is written, there can be no more Bitcoin produced once 21 million coins are in the system. The way the mining system is set up means that the final Bitcoin won’t be mined until about 2140, however. So, although the production rate will slow, there will still be new Bitcoin coming online for over 100 years.
 
LukeTbk said:
You think that from now to the year's 3000 it would not have been replaced by the newer crypto ?

My brain way more agnostic about any of those statement, not able to simulate the world in that regard, with statement like this:
Cypto is here to stay, but deregulated currancies will never be stable enough to be anything more than speculation, if you think otherwise you need more education.

I feel being too strong.
Click to expand...

OK, I'll clarify. I'm not saying it's going to exist in perpetuity and never be replaced, but I will say it's not going away any time soon and has a heck of a lot more runway than people want to believe it does. Talk to anyone you know who's involved with crypto. Everyone I know in it owns at least some Bitcoin, and the die-hards are NEVER selling. Human life being finite, I'm not suggesting it doesn't go away in 1000 years, but the religious fervor of the current class of owners that exists indicates to me that they are never selling. In 50 years, these guys will still own some. It's not going to zero for that reason, that's my point, at least not any time soon. There are far better cryptos out there than Bitcoin from a functional standpoint. The response hasn't been a rejection of Bitcoin by crypto die-hards, but rather a changing of its definition. When you have this kind of zealotry, it's not going away for at least this generation.
 
philb2 said:
Any currency or store of value that "fluctuates" a lot will never gain widespread acceptance where it counts.
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It doesn't need to gain widespread adoption in order to not go to zero. It only needs the hardcore believers to maintain their belief. That's it. The hardcore Bitcoiners are never selling. It can't go to zero until that sentiment changes, and I don't see it changing, at least not for this generation. That's my point. I personally think most of the mythology surrounding Bitcoin is BS, but it doesn't matter what I think. Bitcoin was the first crypto, but it's not even close to the best option out there. That doesn't matter to the Bitcoin religion though, and the value will continue to increase via supply and demand regardless of how stupid you or I think it is to pay $62,000 USD for a few lines of computer code. We're also seeing a lot of fund managers adding it in now, so that can contribute to upward pressure.
 
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