(BF2) Paying for booster packs is a bad idea, and i'll tell you y

[nigel.pinder]

I for one enjoy BF2. Yes it has some glitches, but to me, it is a perfect game........ My livelihood is developing software .

Man, what software do you develop if you think BF2 is perfect???????

Personally, I will not be buying any add on packs. I agree with the first poster, if they had FIXED bf2 first, I may have looked at expansions, but they not doing that.

The choice to buy an expansion pack is mine at the end of the day and I will exercise my right and not buy it.

 

[urbsnspices]

The great thing about BF42 and BF2 is the HUGE fan base. There is plenty of room for expansion packs. BF42 fans will remember when Road to Rome and Secret Weps came out. I there was no rarity of Vanilla servers. Even when the hugely popular player mod DC came out (like 2 years after the first release) there were always an ample supply of vanilla servers. On top of everything EA hosted a bunch of vanilla servers. They do this for BF2 as well.

I never bought any of the expansions so I had good reason to worry about the same things. But like I said the community survived well before and it should continue to. I still dont understand complaints like load time and aircraft strength. My turd of a computer loads maps in 60 seconds and my solution ot powerful aircraft is to get more lead into the air.

 

[Moose777]

I agree. BF2 may have some flaws. But it is a well made game regardless, and I don't know one game that didn't have flaws. And it's fun as hell to play.

I think what the problem most people have is that they play on pubs. They don't know what it's like to play on a structured server with rules that require you to be in a squad and work with a squad. People are ocmplaining because you play with n00b tubing bunny hopping freaks who complain when you shoot them or steal thier tank or jet.

I worried about the same thing when I started playing BF2. And then I saw the light. I was given a link to www.tacticalgamer.com and that's where I play. It's very structured everyone is friendly and teamwork is key.

Yes, the game is plagued by the red tag bug. But once you are into the game and working with a real good group of players you learn to ignore it. You learn to recognize enemy uniforms from your own. And that's when it becomes fun.

 

[Stevemr2t]

Personally I bought BF2 Special Forces and played it twice... It's crap in my opinion and not worth the $ over the standard BF2 game.

 

[GlimmerMan]

Man, what software do you develop if you think BF2 is perfect???????

I develop networked financial applications. I've played computer games for over 20 years, so I appreciate how much games have evolved over time. To me, any game I enjoy and have loads of fun with is perfect.

I agree with the first poster, if they had FIXED bf2 first, I may have looked at expansions, but they not doing that.

No game will ever be impeccable. There will always be some issue. The game will never be "fixed" in the eyes of some people. So the choice is yours, overlook the minor flaws and have fun, or whine and give up.

The choice to buy an expansion pack is mine at the end of the day and I will exercise my right and not buy it.

No one is arguing that. This thread started because some people think it is their right to get them for free.

 

[Phoenix86]

QFT and he was very specific.

Look man, I just call it how I see it. I call Nintendo evil too, because they were at one point a very monopolizing, retailer unfriendly company. I still love the company for what they've done and what I hope they'll do in the future, but it doesn't change the truth. EA shats on consumers.

He was, I just missed the list of bugs because he started off the paragraph this BF1942 bugs, then went into BF:2 bugs. I didn't notice the transition.

Opie, my apologies. I'll address what you listed.

The red tag bug

Noted, see above. I have not seen this is quite some time and only rarely

the flag bug

I have only seen this once, and haven't seen it since the first patch. Is anyone else still seeing this issue?

the c4 bug, spawn blocking

Going to have to be more specific.

limitless endurance

??? There is an endurance limit.

locked-in keybinds

Totally agree

, totally random first shots

Not a "bug" at all, that's they way it's intended, for better or worse. I don't see this as an issue at all, and actually the first shot is pretty accurate with even the support weapons...

unusable AA - indestructible aircraft

Addressed above, AA is not unusable, though it's not great. Also, not a bug, it works as intended, though I seriously don't like the air missle code (goes straight to friendly with a lock on enemy)

c4 frisbees

I have no problem the distance you can throw C4, not a bug. This is akin to "the sniper rifle isn't powerfull enough" or "first shot isn't perfectly accurate".

dolphin diving

Adressed above, again, I really think this is by design, something the comminity doesn't like, they said they would fix and haven't...

a server browser thats 5 steps behind the awful 42 browser

The server browser is not good, it's workable with the favorites list, not buggy, but not good.

unbelievably bad performance optimizations made worse by the expansion pack

Need more information. I have not noticed me lowering settings to maintain FPS through patches, even on my slower system (1800+, 1gb, 9800pro).

OK, going through the list we have...
Interface issues (doesn't affect gameplay):
Bad server brower.

Minor game play issues:
Red tag bug, rare to begin with.
Flag bug (may not be an issue anymore).
Locked key binds.
Ineffective AA.

Moderate game play issues:
Dolphin diving. I would normally count this as a minor issue, but even the devs said they wanted it out some time ago and it's still here.

Looking at that list, I would still buy the game. Notice these are all what would be called minor issues, none of them prevent game play, something you expect in a "very buggy game".

Now compare that list, heck even the bugs that were there day 1 to *any* other software. Heck even "professional" software...

I'd like to see the times some of the "haters" have put into this game. Anyone of you guys care to post your stats?

edit: fixed tagging.

 

[Phoenix86]

If ever you are comparing the game to RL, and you don't know why something happens, it's a game play balancing thing.

Why is TV being shortened? Because you can sit way out of visible range and kill people. 1 shot, instant kill, can't see the shooter=no fun for everyone else. Same reason 50 cal sniper rifle isn't one shot anywhere=kill.

 

[Attean]

He was, I just missed the list of bugs because he started off the paragraph this BF1942 bugs, then went into BF:2 bugs. I didn't notice the transition.

Opie, my apologies. I'll address what you listed.


Noted, see above. I have not seen this is quite some time and only rarely

I have only seen this once, and haven't seen it since the first patch. Is anyone else still seeing this issue?

Going to have to be more specific.

??? There is an endurance limit.

Totally agree

Not a "bug" at all, that's they way it's intended, for better or worse. I don't see this as an issue at all, and actually the first shot is pretty accurate with even the support weapons...

Addressed above, AA is not unusable, though it's not great. Also, not a bug, it works as intended, though I seriously don't like the air missle code (goes straight to friendly with a lock on enemy)

I have no problem the distance you can throw C4, not a bug. This is akin to "the sniper rifle isn't powerfull enough" or "first shot isn't perfectly accurate".

Adressed above, again, I really think this is by design, something the comminity doesn't like, they said they would fix and haven't...

The server browser is not good, it's workable with the favorites list, not buggy, but not good.

Need more information. I have not noticed me lowering settings to maintain FPS through patches, even on my slower system (1800+, 1gb, 9800pro).

OK, going through the list we have...
Interface issues (doesn't affect gameplay):
Bad server brower.

Minor game play issues:
Red tag bug, rare to begin with.
Flag bug (may not be an issue anymore).
Locked key binds.
Ineffective AA.

Moderate game play issues:
Dolphin diving. I would normally count this as a minor issue, but even the devs said they wanted it out some time ago and it's still here.

Looking at that list, I would still buy the game. Notice these are all what would be called minor issues, none of them prevent game play, something you expect in a "very buggy game".

Now compare that list, heck even the bugs that were there day 1 to *any* other software. Heck even "professional" software...

I'd like to see the times some of the "haters" have put into this game. Anyone of you guys care to post your stats?

edit: fixed tagging.

Look, they didnt fix the bugs before asking for more money. This is unacceptable to many of us for a game.

 

[urbsnspices]

If ever you are comparing the game to RL, and you don't know why something happens, it's a game play balancing thing.
.

Or a wizard did it.

 

[Phoenix86]

Look, they didnt fix the bugs before asking for more money. This is unacceptable to many of us for a game.

I see where you are coming from, but I think there is a difference in this game is seeing fast expansions. SF came out months after the first release, not many games have ever done that.

Compare this to other game bugs that never get fixed, and a company that never asks for more $. It's par for the course. Add to that, every application has bugs.

I don't see the justification of "it's a buggy POS" "return the game" "not worth buying" that a lot of people post. It has bugs, some have been fixed, some haven't. There are gameplay things people don't agree on, some want X increase, other X decresed. Again, par for the course.

I think companies like EA are starting to realize they have a more valuable product and are getting more cash from it. You can't sell the game @ $80-90, yet people play it a well over 3 times the time of many $40 titles. I have no problem with them asking for more $ for something I use more. In genenral, as long as the cost/hour is low enough I don't mind at all... Paying attention to in-game time tracking has really opened my eyes to this.

 

[ZX6Master]

.nvm

 

[Attean]

I see where you are coming from, but I think there is a difference in this game is seeing fast expansions. SF came out months after the first release, not many games have ever done that.

Compare this to other game bugs that never get fixed, and a company that never asks for more $. It's par for the course. Add to that, every application has bugs.

I don't see the justification of "it's a buggy POS" "return the game" "not worth buying" that a lot of people post. It has bugs, some have been fixed, some haven't. There are gameplay things people don't agree on, some want X increase, other X decresed. Again, par for the course.

I think companies like EA are starting to realize they have a more valuable product and are getting more cash from it. You can't sell the game @ $80-90, yet people play it a well over 3 times the time of many $40 titles. I have no problem with them asking for more $ for something I use more. In genenral, as long as the cost/hour is low enough I don't mind at all... Paying attention to in-game time tracking has really opened my eyes to this.

That's fair enough. If you enjoy playing it then that's great. What I, personally, am angry about is not that I have to pay for more content, but that if I did decide to come back to the game after the bugs were fixed my original experience would be deminished because others would have an advantage over me. (Any advantage at all is simply unacceptable.) It's just bad design in my eyes. And above all it just wreaks of greed, which puts me off.

edit: Games like UT2004 and Half Life 2 I don't mind paying for, I know the developer stands behind them and supplements my purchase over time. I know for a fact I'm getting my moneys worth when I buy a game with their logo on it. EA almost has the reverse effect and I do think Battlefield 2 is a good example of this, even if the original content was "playable". It isn't an evolving product that I know I can rely on. I think many people feel cheated by this since it is a genuinely good franchise.

 

[cnick79]

I don't know why people are complaining about EA releasing an expansion pack when all of their bugs are not fixed. Expansion packs are the easiest way to make tons of money on a game. The cost of creating them are so small and can be developed while making the original game. I'm willing to bet EA had plans of adding more content right from the start of BF2's development and coded accordingly. A lot of the work going into an expack is by graphic and audio artists leaving coders time to work on bugs.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the new patch released around the same time the Booster is released.

 

[Torgo]

I don't know why people are complaining about EA releasing an expansion pack when all of their bugs are not fixed. Then you haven't been reading the thread. Expansion packs are the easiest way to make tons of money on a game. True. The cost of creating them are so small and can be developed while making the original game. Compared to the original game, yes, but expansion packs can be expensive to produce. I'm willing to bet EA had plans of adding more content right from the start of BF2's development and coded accordingly. Typically, it's more along the lines that items were cut from the original game design and then a decision was made to put it into an expansion pack. Heck, it's what we did with with every AoE expansion pack. A lot of the work going into an expack is by graphic and audio artists leaving coders time to work on bugs. Okay, right here I know that you're waaaaay off base. You're assuming that no one codes on an expansion pack. Simply not true. A designer and two or three coders are always assigned to the expansion pack. Unfortunately, it's usually not one of the leads or the original guy that wrote the code so there's a learning curve and not all bugs are found.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the new patch released around the same time the Booster is released.

See above colored comments for what I have to say.

 

[Phoenix86]

EA almost has the reverse effect and I do think Battlefield 2 is a good example of this, even if the original content was "playable". It isn't an evolving product that I know I can rely on. I think many people feel cheated by this since it is a genuinely good franchise.

That's a very respectable position. Just consider time/hours spent vs cost, bang for your buck.

As long as I'm kosher in that regard I don't have a problem investing more $$.

cnick79, you are wrong, subscription services is a better way to extract $ from the players, guaranteed (at least very predicitable) revenue, less predicitable content updates. With an exp. pack at least you know what new content you are getting an how much it costs, also you can choose to participate or not.

 

[cnick79]

I should have proofread what I wrote because my words were taking too literally.

Let me try to sum up what was meant.

I didn't mean x-packs were cheap to produce. The time it takes to produce x-packs can be months instead of years as is with the original game. We all know "time is money."

I still think EA and Dice planned on future ex-packs for two reasons: 1) Having some of your source code already in place and making it less static or designing it for expansion makes things easier in the end. 2) We saw expansions with BF1942 and we can expect expacks with future BF series.

I was not assuming no code gets coded. I was implying a lot of the work needed to be done was artist and audio work. You're creating new levels, characters, weapons, etc and less of writing network and game engine code and core functionality. Naturally other functionality is added (such as grappling hooks) so that needs to be coded (see above paragraph).

Phoenix - Are you talking about MMO games and paying per month to play them? If so MMO's can be a great way to rake in the cash but also remember their overhead is much higher and more risky.

"Hey Phoenix, how about you pay me $50 to purchase my product and then pay me another $10-$15/month to use it?"

I can see why the OP is scared other games will adapt to the "booster", because us gamers are suckers. We have to have the best character and all of the available items at our disposal hoping this will give us an advantage over the fellow gamer. We will spend the money because we are willing to dish out the cash for the newest graphics card or the latest CPU because an HL2 compliant PC is so "2005".

When it's all said and done it all comes down to business. EA is a business and businesses make money. The gaming market is rapidly growing and will continue to grow as long as we buy games.

 

[HHunt]

When it's all said and done it all comes down to business. EA is a business and businesses make money. The gaming market is rapidly growing and will continue to grow as long as we buy games.

Some companies are in it for the money. Some companies are also in it because they enjoy making good games and perhaps making people happy.
EA are not in the latter category.

 

[Phoenix86]

"Hey Phoenix, how about you pay me $50 to purchase my product and then pay me another $10-$15/month to use it?"

I'm doing just that for a friend today.

*looks at your rig's specs*

Oh, hell no, you can afford it.

 

[Moose777]

I
Why is TV being shortened? Because you can sit way out of visible range and kill people. 1 shot, instant kill, can't see the shooter=no fun for everyone else. Same reason 50 cal sniper rifle isn't one shot anywhere=kill.

But that's the point of the TV missile. To be able to take targets out at a distance without being seen. Shortening the range of it does little to actualyl balance the game what it does is gives the whiners who complain that their APC full of people were taken out from an unknown source. If more pub players would organize into squads and have CO's that do their jobs then perhaps they'd have an insight as to, "Enemy chopper sighted!!!"

Instead of, "You f'n hax you can't do that with teh TV missile!!!!"


I hate playing on public servers because the game is played incorrectly, you have a million poeple doing their own thing. The game is a tactical shooter, not as tactical as say the Rainbow Six series of games but it is tactical none-the-less. There is a reason why it's designed to have a CO, and there is a reason why there are squads. If you use teh commander options you'd have an idea of where that TV missile came from and there would be no reason to shorten it's range. Sure, you'd still be dead but at least next time someone says, "Enemy slick inbound." or "Enemy chopper spotted." you'll know, "Hey wait, TV missiles are fired form attack choppers. And if there is one somewhere that I can't readily spot then we need to divert one or two squads to finding it and taking it out or to actually watch the sky."

The TV missile can be directed while in flight, but only a few times before it self destructs, keep moving fast enough and erratically enough and you won't be taken out by a TV missile.

Shortening its range is stupid.

Every weapon, every vehicle in BF2 is based off a real life counterpart. A support kit's role is suppressing fire. An engineer's role is to fix things, a medic's to heal, an attack chopper's role is to kill without being seen as is a sniper. Shortening their ranges, or making their weapons less effective takes away from the game.

I have a low KdR because I play support 95% of the time. I die more times than I kill, my greatest average was 14 kills to 12 deaths in one game. I didn't complain because I didn't rack a lot of kills. That wasn't my job. My job is to suppress the enemy so my squad can move. If I draw a lot of fire then I know my squad is able to move and I am doing my job. Killing other players doesn't matter to me as long as my squad can take their objectives.

 

[Phoenix86]

I have said this in a dozen BF2 therads. You don't want reality, and if you do this game isn't for you.

Why do you really not want reality? Because you don't complain about:

Magic packs of bandages that magically heal you 100% just by walking over them.
Parachutes that are not only equiped on EVERYONE, but magically repack themselves in a split second.
Support guy with ammo for EVERYTHING, even tanks and Claymores, but can't use it himself.

There are quite a few other things I can list, but you can see where I'm going. The game is not a reality simulator.

 

[so_cal_forever]

I cant say I agree with the OP. Game developers arent getting paid enough now as it is, even with the $10 hike for 360 games. Plus, it's not going to get as dire as $5 for every patch they release. They'd never charge extra for something mandatory.

 

[Moose777]

I have said this in a dozen BF2 therads. You don't want reality, and if you do this game isn't for you.

Why do you really not want reality? Because you don't complain about:

Magic packs of bandages that magically heal you 100% just by walking over them.
Parachutes that are not only equiped on EVERYONE, but magically repack themselves in a split second.
Support guy with ammo for EVERYTHING, even tanks and Claymores, but can't use it himself.

There are quite a few other things I can list, but you can see where I'm going. The game is not a reality simulator.

No it isn't and you are right. I wasn't arguing that with you. I wasn't even arguing.

 

[Phoenix86]

No it isn't and you are right. I wasn't arguing that with you. I wasn't even arguing.

I know, I'm just trying to say why something like what you want will never be in this type of game.

BTW, want more kills with support? Throw nades, you don't run out.

Two support guys tossing nades and resupplying themselves is pretty scary. Speaking of which, I also ran into 3 medic with their shock paddles out. As soon as I got a kill, they revivied. I racked up 6-7 kills before I ran out of ammo and was over-run. Funny and sad.

 

[Firewall]

Got to chime in. I do like BF2. Even with all it's bugs and shitty netcode, there is a great game in there.

However, it is driving me crazy that some of you are fine with them taking advantage of the community with these "booster packs". Ok, for an expansion pack I really don't have an issue with them charging us for it. (even though priority should be on a patch, not making more money).

However, with these booster packs, EA is seriously gone too far. We expected them to give us an ETA on the much needed patch, just to find out that they've been trying to come up with a way to squeeze more money out of us. Guys, it's as simple as that. EA does not have the same care for their community, as let's say EPIC or many other companies out there. Not even close.

So, I will not even think about buying these booster packs, if EA decides to gives these free to the community, then I will have a change of heart, but we know that will never happen.

Has anyone mentioned that this might also spread the community thin? With these expansion packs, booster packs, it's taking away potentially good players and moving them to another level where others can't go.

Shame on you EA.

This is an excellent post. They should be mopping up the bugs they have but instead they greedily have an army of monkey coders working away on "booster" packs to make more money off of people.

I bet they called them that as an insider joke on all of us. We think its boosts our play while in reality it just boosts their profits.

That being said, I've never had a problem with the game except for one time and that is my fault. I do, however, acknowledge that there are bugs in the game.

 

[Moose777]

I know, I'm just trying to say why something like what you want will never be in this type of game.

BTW, want more kills with support? Throw nades, you don't run out.

Two support guys tossing nades and resupplying themselves is pretty scary. Speaking of which, I also ran into 3 medic with their shock paddles out. As soon as I got a kill, they revivied. I racked up 6-7 kills before I ran out of ammo and was over-run. Funny and sad.

I know it'll never be a true tactical game. But its tactical enough. Support doesn't run out of SAW ammo either. Just hold out a pack and give yourself more ammo.

The one game I got 14 kills with it I was on Karkand unde rthe train wreck, I could see everything. I'd just throw some ammo packs out near me, lay on the trigger and wait for them to run into my path of fire.

I'm not good with 'nades. I end up killing more of my own peeps with it so I use the SAW more often. And I personally don't care about racking kills. I just lay down a base of fire so everyone in my squad can move while I take the fire. It usually works out really well and my squad usually always gives me enough med packs or my own medic. I play with a really great group of people. I tend to stay on the private servers as I hate pubs.

 

[cnick79]

I have said this in a dozen BF2 therads. You don't want reality, and if you do this game isn't for you.

Why do you really not want reality? Because you don't complain about:

Magic packs of bandages that magically heal you 100% just by walking over them.
Parachutes that are not only equiped on EVERYONE, but magically repack themselves in a split second.
Support guy with ammo for EVERYTHING, even tanks and Claymores, but can't use it himself.

There are quite a few other things I can list, but you can see where I'm going. The game is not a reality simulator.

The real [H]'ers are over in Iraq.

 

[Pharacon]

there are only two things i dislike about the idea of the booster packs

1) you have to have seperate server's running different packs.. ie 1 server for SF, 1 server vannila, 1 server eurobooster, 1 server americabooster.. this is lame should be able to run everything from one server any time you want no reboot required..

2) allowing Xpack weapons in vanilla.. this is lame.. its been beaten to death but a great example is the fs2000, the gren launcher on it fires horizontally while the other GL's fire in a more lobbed fashion... also the scope on it is really nice for long range!


I for one got SF just to get FB in vannilla BF2.. they can really over power people. for instance now when i take a flag by my self i will spam my FB's when i get to the flag, if a person is effected normally they start firing and they can not see crap for like 30 seconds (longer then needed to cap a flag.

A good story of my FB goodness i was on mashure city and there was a squad in the building next to the Hotel Flag, they where powning everyone, they where chucking grenades and had medics and support up there. no one could get close. If someone would throw a grenade in the window the medics would have then revived in about 3 seconds and the pain would continue. I get there see this whip out my fs2000, put a grenade thru the window, then run and chuck a FB in. POW! all i hear is gun fire but nothing is coming out the windows.. so of course i pull my knife out walk up there and kill 5 people with the knife while they unload all their ammo into the wall......

I'm just glad they didnt include the tear gas in Vannila BF2.. then it would require SF because other wise you get no gas mask :\

 

[Phoenix86]

The real [H]'ers are over in Iraq.

I like the argument, want realism, join the army. However, there's nothing wrong with wanting a realistic war sim, this just isn't it.

 

[bazylik]

A good story of my FB goodness i was on mashure city and there was a squad in the building next to the Hotel Flag, they where powning everyone, they where chucking grenades and had medics and support up there. no one could get close. If someone would throw a grenade in the window the medics would have then revived in about 3 seconds and the pain would continue. I get there see this whip out my fs2000, put a grenade thru the window, then run and chuck a FB in. POW! all i hear is gun fire but nothing is coming out the windows.. so of course i pull my knife out walk up there and kill 5 people with the knife while they unload all their ammo into the wall......

LOL, priceless.

 

[cnick79]

A good story of my FB goodness i was on mashure city and there was a squad in the building next to the Hotel Flag, they where powning everyone, they where chucking grenades and had medics and support up there. no one could get close. If someone would throw a grenade in the window the medics would have then revived in about 3 seconds and the pain would continue. I get there see this whip out my fs2000, put a grenade thru the window, then run and chuck a FB in. POW! all i hear is gun fire but nothing is coming out the windows.. so of course i pull my knife out walk up there and kill 5 people with the knife while they unload all their ammo into the wall......

Enjoy it because I think FB's are being reduced in the next patch. I personally think the FB's are fine the way they are.

1 server eurobooster, 1 server americabooster

America booster? What is this all about? I thought there was just a Euro booster.

 

[Pharacon]

yeah they got maps in america one of them is called road rage i believe