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Ballmer Ordered to Testify in Vista Capable Case
- Thread starter Terry Olaes
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Was this the case about notebooks labeled as Vista Capable, but then didn't have working Vista drivers...I bought one of those notebook at Costco.com and promptly returned it. It turned out the bios didn't like Vista and I heard the issue wasn't resolved until about 6 months after Vista was out, but they did resolve it. While I think MS shares some of the responsibilities I think the manufactures are more to blame for this screw up trying to label everything in their line Vista Capable.
It's the case that a woman brought because Vista Home Basic wasn't acceptable enough to cover the "Vista Capable" sticker on the computer. While some people who bought a 915GM based laptop might be rightfully upset that Aero Glass isn't supported (due to lack of a WDDM driver from Intel) *if they were going to upgrade at all*, it really affects a very low percentage of people overall.
Give credit to her lawyers who got this expanded to class action and his team should get a very nice pay day. Everyone else, probably very little to nothing.
Give credit to her lawyers who got this expanded to class action and his team should get a very nice pay day. Everyone else, probably very little to nothing.
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Really, I see it as a manufacturer driver/bios issue, not a Microsoft issue. AFAIK, the manufacturers put the "Vista Capable" stickers on their units, not Microsoft. It seems Microsoft can escape rather easily from lawsuits of this nature, because they can just say the manufacturers failed to create their drivers and bios on time, unlike all the other manufacturers who have completely working units with no major issues.
Because it's impossible to upgrade the memory?
Because it's impossible to upgrade the memory?
it also technically completly voids your warranty breaking the sticker on the back to install it.... so yeah.. also its sold like that, it should work like that... thats bullcrap being sold something you are told is fully functional, and then having to spend more money because it doesnt actually work as advertised..
Your average persons purchasing said laptops dont even know what memory looks like....
thats a point, anyone with the technical knowhow to install new memory, would also know to avoid such laptops..
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You aren't forced to upgrade memory. It will run with the minimum amount. Don't expect maximum performance with bare minimums though. That's why they have floor models you can test...
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Vista works with 512 RAM period, its just slow as hell. During the time of the Vista Capable stickers I was running a notebook with Vista RC1/2, it ran ok, but the fact is it still ran. Still ran better then some of the P.O.S. that some folks have me look at running 98/2k/XP, seriously folks you can get a notebook for $500-600 with 1 to 2GB of RAM and a Dual Core!
cant get those sorts of price here today and now... let alone when vista was released...
when you order online, you have no floor model.. not everyone buys from a retail store, people just live on the assumption, well XP seemed to work fine on 128mb ram, so 512mb thats HUUGE man...
When was the last time you looked at a laptop, 1995?
I haven't seen a warranty voiding sticker on an access panel or major manufacturer desktop in over a decade.
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uhh what? Yeah, you could get "those sorts of prices". My brother purchased a MSI laptop with a dual core X2 and 1GB of RAM for $600..
Anyway, your average dumbass that wouldn't know any better doesn't shop online for laptops. They go to retail stores. There are floor models you can play with and mash your fist against the keyboard.
Because they don't need to, but they can if they want to. It's a little simpler to do that than to file a lawsuit.
Vista Basic works with 512MB, even when some of that is used by shared graphics memory. My older HP laptop came with Vista Home Basic and I used it just fine with 512MB installed.
i dont live in america... you can barely get a msi wind for 700...
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Well, don't complain then. If your government wants to jack up prices through tariffs and fees and taxes, that isn't our fault. The overwhelming majority of people here can get <$500USD laptops that run Vista just fine.
I family member bought a E-machine with vista that had 512mb ram on it, it was so slow! It took close to 10minutes to boot the computer, 3 minutes to start any application and that was just out of the box, freaking retarded move selling vista with anything under a gig of ram.
Such as...? Dell, HP, Lenovo, Sony, Toshiba and Gateway don't have warranty voiding stickers over the user access panels. That's like over 95% of the laptop market.
to be honest, this 5 different versions of Vista is retarded. All they need is Home/Business/Ultimate. If they do not meet the requirements for Aero, then its disabled. The population is too lazy and dumb to actually read the difference between Vista Capable and Vista Ready. Microsoft PR should have known that.
Nemesis999
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Vista runs fine with 512MB of RAM. Vista does NOT run fine with 512MB of RAM and shit-ware installed by manufacturers. I've had Vista Basic on an old PC of mine for months, it works fine. Is it slower then XP? Yes, that's no surprise. Is it capable of running Vista Basic? Yes, completely.
Whining about slow hardware running slowly isn't exactly MS' fault. At the most it's the manufacturer's for failing to test their systems after they had infected them with the pre-install malware.
brucedeluxe169
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haha ownage
Nemesis999
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Acutally, I'm curious too.
I've worked on dozens of laptops over the last few years. I've never seen a warranty sticker blocking an access panel.
To get right inside, yes. Access panels, no.
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Only notebook I've ever seen a void warranty sticker on was my EeePC 701. I've changed the RAM on quiet a few notebooks including Asus, Toshiba, HP and Sony.
the problem really is the crap that comes preloaded on these things. case in point my wife went out and bought a cheapo laptop at bestbuy recently. i think it was 500 bucks. had a gig of ram. it ran like crap. i wiped it, reloaded vista and now it runs great. night and day difference.
lol
celeron m + vista = fail.
When I worked at Best Buy there were quite a few notebooks there that had that CPU and were labeled Vista capable.
Actually it wasn't so much their PR not knowing it, but them bending over backwards for Intel. According to what has been said in this lawsuit, Micrsoft was only going to have the Vista Ready but Intel got pissed as their chipset they were selling were not going to be good enough for Vista and since they had a crapload of them they talked Microsoft into making another category for those that could run Vista Basic without Aero.
I myself see not being able to run Areo to be the same as not being able to use the Media Center or the Tablet PC functions. (which by the way for those that bitch about the multiple versions of Vista. That is no different that XP Home, XP Profession, XP Media Center, XP Tablet, XP Profession x64). If you don't have all the needed hardware then you can't use these features. However if anyone was told to lie to say these computer would support all features when they couldn't, then yes whomever gave that order should be punished. If the only thing is that Microsoft made up two categories to help Intel sell of older chipsets and the sellers didn't bother to make it clear to the customer that they couldn't use every feature then that is the stores fault not Micrsoft's and should only be sued over it they intented to lie to the customer to force them to by something that wouldn't meet their needs / desire. Other than that it is a simple case of customers just not making an informed purchased as they didn't care enough to look into it.
brucedeluxe169
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celeron m is perfectly capable of handling vista very well...
anything from a 2.4ghz northwood and up will run vista beautifully...
nevertheless, the sticker didn't lie. It's Vista CAPABLE. Meaning you can make this particular computer work with Vista. You want extra RAM without voiding your warranty? Let HP handle it for you. If you want to do it yourself? Go for it. No reason not to as RAM slots are extremely accessable and documented in HP laptops as well as other laptops.
YeuEmMaiMai
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i use x64 ultimate on a vostro 1400 upgraded with 4GB ram and 320GB HDD. even with this craptastic 8400GS-M it runs just fine. The laptop my wife uses has a mobility 200M with intergrated video on it with 2 GB ram and it runs vista with areo just fine as welll. Gateway was a little slow until I added more ram
DeathFromBelow
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Exactly.
Laptop manufacturers are to blame for poor performance. Shit drivers + shittier crapware = slow computer regardless of hardware. It's also not Microsoft's fault that the manufacturers also abused the Vista capable logo and didn't provide Vista drivers.
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+1 ... I haven't seen a laptop in probably a decade that has a void sticker over any access panel. Even the older HP's where removing the keyboard was neccessary to install RAM.
Meh, these people are digging for money from M$. Most likely the OEM will pay, but M$ will walk clear. M$ didn't design the hardware, they simply handed the software to the OEM and told them to design a machine capable of running it.
Joe Average
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I installed Vista Business on a Toshiba m205 Tablet PC the other day, the CPU score was 4.6, and that's a Pentium M 1.5 GHz; the RAM score was 4.5 with DDR 333 RAM, the hard drive score was 4.8 with a 160GB IDE 8MB 5400 rpm drive. Aero was actually enabled using some drivers I found over at LaptopVideo2Go for the 32MB GeForce FX Go5200 in this thing - so much for the "requires 128MB for Aero" belief. Of course it ran slow but it did work.
Hell, I even installed Windows 7 on it just for kicks, with the 1.25GB of RAM it actually runs pretty damned snappy, so yes, you can run Vista and even the pre-beta of Windows 7 on older hardware without many issues - the biggest one will almost always be video.
It's sad that MSFT bent over for Intel and Sony on this one just so they could unload their crap UMA solutions.
Next time the VPs should just STFU and listen to the nerds running the logo program. If MSFT gets the bill for this one they should just forward it to Intel and Sony.
Next time the VPs should just STFU and listen to the nerds running the logo program. If MSFT gets the bill for this one they should just forward it to Intel and Sony.
Celeron M = Pentium M with speedstep removed. It is just as powerful, but has less battery life.
You should be sure to stick to working at Best Buy.
ill put it this way-
windows XP with a 1700+ cpu and 256mb ram- awesome internet machine.
windows vista with a 2600+ cpu and 512mb ram- works halfway ok as a file server- slow as hell for anything else.
i attest this to first hand experience with two of my pc's right now. hence the reason i just bought up 3.5gb of ram from another member here. i can post back when i get results but im sure most know whats going to happen...
windows XP with a 1700+ cpu and 256mb ram- awesome internet machine.
windows vista with a 2600+ cpu and 512mb ram- works halfway ok as a file server- slow as hell for anything else.
i attest this to first hand experience with two of my pc's right now. hence the reason i just bought up 3.5gb of ram from another member here. i can post back when i get results but im sure most know whats going to happen...
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Celeron M has either 512 or 1mb cache...Pentium M has 1Mb or 2Mb...not exactly the same.