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Bad Ass Speakers
- Thread starter Computurd
- Start date
If you're gonna ask the more audiophile inclined crowd, they'll tell ya $350 is barely enough for a half decent sub... And it's not entirely untrue if you want deep accurate bass.
That being said, I'm pretty happy with my ~$200 BIC F12... It's not the greatest with music, I've heard better, but it's very satisfying with movies/games. Stretching that $350 budget to 5.1 will be tough tho.
Four Pioneer BS22 on sale will run $120, you could use a ghost/virtual center, but then you've almost topped out the budget and still need an AVR. 2.1 might be more doable, with the option to expand later.
Otherwise you're pretty much looking at plastic PC speakers, which would be the only option if you absolutely must have 5.1 for <$350. Your Logitech Z series, Klipsch Promedias, etc.
That or a HTiB which won't be much better but at least the AVR and rear speakers can be used when/if you upgrade the fronts/sub. Nothing wrong with Promedias if you just wanna shake stuff around, but outside of that I find that kinda system unbalanced and the bass sloppy.
That being said, I'm pretty happy with my ~$200 BIC F12... It's not the greatest with music, I've heard better, but it's very satisfying with movies/games. Stretching that $350 budget to 5.1 will be tough tho.
Four Pioneer BS22 on sale will run $120, you could use a ghost/virtual center, but then you've almost topped out the budget and still need an AVR. 2.1 might be more doable, with the option to expand later.
Otherwise you're pretty much looking at plastic PC speakers, which would be the only option if you absolutely must have 5.1 for <$350. Your Logitech Z series, Klipsch Promedias, etc.
That or a HTiB which won't be much better but at least the AVR and rear speakers can be used when/if you upgrade the fronts/sub. Nothing wrong with Promedias if you just wanna shake stuff around, but outside of that I find that kinda system unbalanced and the bass sloppy.
For your budget look for a surround sound setup on craigslist. All you need is a receiver with optical in and you are set. Will need an audio card with optical out as well.
Should be able to fine something used, but nice in that price range if you live a decent sized city.
Should be able to fine something used, but nice in that price range if you live a decent sized city.
Oh yeah, I neglected to mention that, shopping used and shopping local might end up being the most effective... Local market is so limited where I live I rarely factor it in.
From what I've seen people will sometimes offload receivers and even vintage speakers for a fraction of what they cost. Outgoing or last-year model AVRs are also price slashed severely even new.
The Denon in my living room was like 50% off the price of the newer model, which only added front HDMI and a network port for updates.
From what I've seen people will sometimes offload receivers and even vintage speakers for a fraction of what they cost. Outgoing or last-year model AVRs are also price slashed severely even new.
The Denon in my living room was like 50% off the price of the newer model, which only added front HDMI and a network port for updates.
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It may be a matter of a setting on your receiver or your computer mixer. I use to run an Onkyo receiver through the optical out on my sound card. Optical is fully capable of 5.1 surround.
TechLarry
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For music or gaming? Especially at that price you'll possibly have to sacrifice something on one side or the other.
People use to drool over the Logitech Z5500's. I have a set, and for music they are total crap. Logitech fixed the sub crossover at 125 hz and it destroys music but makes for loud boomy gaming.
Make SURE whatever you get will allow you to crossover the sub at 80hz or your music will suffer badly.
I would not even try to go 5.1 for $350. I could barely get there with 2.1 even if I already had the receiver/amp.
It's like wanting a car that will do a 9 second quarter mile, but you only want to spend $10,000 on it. That might buy a piston set LOL
People use to drool over the Logitech Z5500's. I have a set, and for music they are total crap. Logitech fixed the sub crossover at 125 hz and it destroys music but makes for loud boomy gaming.
Make SURE whatever you get will allow you to crossover the sub at 80hz or your music will suffer badly.
I would not even try to go 5.1 for $350. I could barely get there with 2.1 even if I already had the receiver/amp.
It's like wanting a car that will do a 9 second quarter mile, but you only want to spend $10,000 on it. That might buy a piston set LOL
TechLarry
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Oh, a WORKING set of Klipsch ProMedia Ultra 5.1's for that price would be a killer buy, but you have to understand that as good as these are, they WILL eventually fail and you WILL eventually need a soldering iron.
For $350 nothing available would sound better. It is a high risk purchase though.
For $350 nothing available would sound better. It is a high risk purchase though.
Skripka
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AKA lossy codecs. TOSLINK and SPDIF should have gone the way of Windows 95 back when W95 died.
TechLarry
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Capacitors go bad or something? I am quite handy with a soldering iron.
I don't remember. A couple of guys here have dealt with it though. They may be able to help more.
There is little in the electronics world I miss more than my Klipsch ProMedia 5.1 Ultra's. It took $1000 worth of Sub and monitors to even come close, and that's only for a 2.1 system.
If I'd was the OP, I'd really think hard about whether he really needs 5.1 on his computer. I removed mine and haven't missed it one single bit. It was more of a pain in the ass than it was worth as far as a computer audio system goes.
Drakensoul
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AFAIK Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect are the only ways to get continuous 5.1 out of a digital connection (except for true 5.1/DD sources like DVDs, some games). Do you have another way?
I.e.: Anything on your computer that outputs as 5.1 via your analog soundcard 3.5mm connects will become 2.1 over a digital out unless you use an encoder like DDLive or DTSConnect. Unless the source is a DD-esque 5.1 format. Which is like... nothing.
With HDMI you can do 8ch PCM which isn't compressed, although DDL/DTSn are like 640Kbit so it's not THAT bad. There are also lossless-compressed versions of DD and DTS that can go over HDMI as well.
Skripka
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HDMI.
For DDL and DTS you might need to buy a soundcard anyway unless your onboard chipset has the ability to live stream PCM to DTS or PCM to DDL
Depends...that 640kbit may be for all 6 or 8 channels depending on how you have it setup. The lossless codecs and Dolby BS only were necessary because TOSLINK and SPDIF are bandwidth starved interfaces...which are bandwidth starved because they were designed back in Windows 3.1 heydays for 44.1kHz stereo, and were never deprecated when home-theater audio came about in the 1990s.
Drakensoul
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HDMI will not encode a 5.1 signal without a true 5.1 (DD/Prologic/DTS) source. Same as using optical out. I.e.: if you want music and surround sound games that aren't DD to be 5.1, you need them encoded. Otherwise it's just a 7 channel PCM passthrough (or 2-3 channels with most Nvidia cards) passing 2.1 sound, since that's the source.
Skripka
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What kind of music?
For $350 you're going to want to peruse craigslist....as any 5.1 system you buy in that range is entry level for movies (i.e. predominantly for human speech). $350 could get you a decent pair of near-field stereo monitors, but not a 5.1 setup.
Skripka
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You don't need to encode DTS or DDL for HDMI, which is the joy of HDMI. You passthrough native PCM multi-channel which is what 99.9999% of games ever made naturally output. And get the joy of higher resolution without Dolby BS....your post makes it sounds like deprecating DTS and DDL is somehow a bad thing.
Drakensoul
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It's not 99.9999%... but this also does zero for his wanting 5.1 music. The only way is receiver upmixing or DDLive/DTS Connect. And I have memories of World of Warcraft being 2.1 no matter what I did without DD Live.
Just to be more on topic. Anyone who says they "want something with a sub" for "some KICK" and "some BASS" probably isn't looking in the audiophile range. Pick up some high end computer/multimedia (Klipsch/Logitech/Corsair) and call it a day. You won't find a true high quality setup for $350; I'm sure music will sound just fine to you on Klipsch, which are good multimedia speakers.
Skripka
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Upmixing music to 5.1 makes music sound like shit. Plain and simple. The only way it sounds "good" is if you are blasting your ear drums out doing permanent hearing damage to yourself.
I say that as someone who works with multi-channel $$$$$ audio rigs at work.
TechLarry
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Drakensoul
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Again, I don't get the audiophile vibe from his posts. Think he just wants sound to come out of 5 speakers and a sub to shake his eyes a little.
Just get multimedia speaker setup.
TechLarry
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Research that sub cross-over. A 150hz crossover for music is pure mud. For music you want it at 80hz in most cases.
Do you have audio DVDs or some other source that's actually recorded in surround? Otherwise you're just wasting your time, much of the above discussion is moot, and you should just be looking at a quality 2.1 setup.
As others alluded to, stereo music up-mixed to 5.1 ends up sounding between meh and awful... Even when I hadn't experienced anything better and I was just running a set of Cambridge Soundworks PC speakers, I quickly realized I got tired of listening much quicker when I enabled 5.1.
Music is by and large recorded in stereo and meant to be played in stereo. Your options also open up A LOT by having $350 for a 2.1 setup... BIC F-12, Pioneer BS22, and a T-amp (like a Topping TP-20) will run you almost exactly $350 and they'll blow away anything Logitech.
There's other speakers in that range and even slightly under it like the Micca, and Pioneer Primus (when on sale), really there's a world of options for 2.1 <$400, and you can always reuse those components later and expend the setup.
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If you uppped your budget, you could get 5 M-Audio BX5 D2 monitors and a Polk 10" sub for $475.
The BX5 D2 is sometimes on sale for $75 each.
I use 2 of them with a 10" BX Subwoofer for a 2.1 setup.
it's currently $79 each,
http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-BX5-D..._2?ie=UTF8&qid=1440453069&sr=8-2&keywords=bx5
this sub sometimes sells for $99 shipped from Amazon and Newegg.
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-10...101&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=polk+10":+subwwofer
The BX5 D2 is sometimes on sale for $75 each.
I use 2 of them with a 10" BX Subwoofer for a 2.1 setup.
it's currently $79 each,
http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-BX5-D..._2?ie=UTF8&qid=1440453069&sr=8-2&keywords=bx5
this sub sometimes sells for $99 shipped from Amazon and Newegg.
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-10...101&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=polk+10":+subwwofer
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I'd spend a little bit more on sub than that Polk is worth, provided he does decide to put the $350 towards a 2.1 setup... Active monitors are another perfectly viable choice for the speakers tho.
Two BX5 and a BIC F12 are bound to be more enjoyable if it's really meant for stereo music and not much else... Hence why I asked about his source material.
Two BX5 and a BIC F12 are bound to be more enjoyable if it's really meant for stereo music and not much else... Hence why I asked about his source material.
TechLarry
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I think that's a more than reasonable starter system and it's in your budget.
UPDATE: On second thought, I don' like the limited connection capabilities of that sub. It is NOT well suited for use with powered monitors. I'm not sure which sub to recommend to pair with powered monitors in your budget. Both the M-Audio BX Subwoofer (which I have) and the KRK-10 are $400.
I guess you could use the Polk and run one line for sub (it's part of the Center/Sub pair I believe) from the sound card and then the L/R from the other sound card jack to the monitors. My only issue here, again, is crossover frequency which is SO important. I'm not sure how that would be handed in this configuration.
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I am tempted to buy these: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/STUDIO50USB
Really simple setup. One USB cable and power to first speaker. Then the second one is connected to it. No audio interference since it is USB to the amp.
Really simple setup. One USB cable and power to first speaker. Then the second one is connected to it. No audio interference since it is USB to the amp.
Tyler-Durden
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I'd get a pair of JBL LSR305 active monitors. $300 shipped (can pay in installments).
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR305
You might find a subwoofer unnecessary, especially for music.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR305
You might find a subwoofer unnecessary, especially for music.
If it were me and I didn't have an amp already I'd probably go for those JBL, they've been very well reviewed. OP really seemed to crave deep bass tho... Then again, if all he's used to are Logitech subs and the like, then anything without a huge mid hump is just gonna sound weird to him anyway until he gets used to it...
I'm still of the opinion that a 2.1 set is his best bet, spend $100-150 on speakers and/or amp, rest on sub... Plenty of solid speaker recommendations in thread already. As for sub, there's some decent stuff out there with high pass filters and actual crossover etc for not much more than the cheap Polk recommended earlier.
Check out the ~$200 BIC F-12 I mentioned before for instance... I think it's actually a Dr. HSU design, don't quote me on that as I might be getting that tidbit mixed up with another sub's progeny tho. I think it's pretty solid for the price tho.
Edit: Powered speakers or active monitors can be easier to set up initially, possibly ever better tuned out of the box, but it can also be harder to pair them with a sub down the line if he decides he wants one anyway...
The biggest mistake one can make when it comes to computer audio is to buy "computer" speaker systems.
I made this discovery 12 years ago, back in 2003. Between 2000 and 2003, I bought no less than 5 computer speaker systems, and each one of them ended with disappointment. They were:
1. Creative FPS 1000 (oddly had the best bass output of the entire batch)
2. Creative FPS 2000
3. Creative FPS 2500
4. Creative 3500
5. Megaworks 510D
I was about to splurge on the Klipsch Promedia 5.1s, but then I figured by then I had enough of computer speaker systems and something else was wrong. So what did I do?
Used the Megaworks 510D sub, bought Athena AS-B1 bookshelfs, an Onkyo TX-SR500, and never looked back. I killed that sub a long time ago, but the bookshelfs and receiver are still in service. Like I said, that was 12 years ago. Now, I'm into pro audio (Yamaha HS50m, HS80, and HS8S sub), but that's a completely different bracket of quality and cost.
Bottom line: you want good quality, and you listen to that much music? Don't buy a computer speaker system.
I made this discovery 12 years ago, back in 2003. Between 2000 and 2003, I bought no less than 5 computer speaker systems, and each one of them ended with disappointment. They were:
1. Creative FPS 1000 (oddly had the best bass output of the entire batch)
2. Creative FPS 2000
3. Creative FPS 2500
4. Creative 3500
5. Megaworks 510D
I was about to splurge on the Klipsch Promedia 5.1s, but then I figured by then I had enough of computer speaker systems and something else was wrong. So what did I do?
Used the Megaworks 510D sub, bought Athena AS-B1 bookshelfs, an Onkyo TX-SR500, and never looked back. I killed that sub a long time ago, but the bookshelfs and receiver are still in service. Like I said, that was 12 years ago. Now, I'm into pro audio (Yamaha HS50m, HS80, and HS8S sub), but that's a completely different bracket of quality and cost.
Bottom line: you want good quality, and you listen to that much music? Don't buy a computer speaker system.
I had like three different Cambridge Soundworks setups thru 2004 too (the Logitech Z of their era really), including two 5.1 with those flimsy legs, before I found something better. I think Creative bought them?
First one was probably bought back in 96 tho so I didn't churn as much. I wasn't even that unhappy with them but couldn't possibly go back to those underpowered satellites etc. now. They were decently built tho...
One of the 2.1 sets was working happily at my parent's office until last year when I swapped it out for a spare pair of bookshelves I had (previously rear channels) and a T-amp. Even they seemed to like that better, and my mom's got some hearing degradation.
First one was probably bought back in 96 tho so I didn't churn as much. I wasn't even that unhappy with them but couldn't possibly go back to those underpowered satellites etc. now. They were decently built tho...
One of the 2.1 sets was working happily at my parent's office until last year when I swapped it out for a spare pair of bookshelves I had (previously rear channels) and a T-amp. Even they seemed to like that better, and my mom's got some hearing degradation.
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I myself was looking at the Polk but came to the same conclusion and went with the BX.
My BX Sub is currently on it's way to M-Audio for repair. I bought a Blemished model for $299 from ZZSounds and it looks brand new and works great in normal mode but I decided to hook up the bypass pedal to see how that works and when bypassed the left channel cuts out completely .
M-Audio has good customer service, I called and got to a tech right away, told them the issue and they are going to fix or replace the sub. They also provided a pre-paid FedEx shipping label. Turn around time says 2-3 weeks but I hope it's faster. I am already missing it.
TechLarry
RIP [H] Brother - June 1, 2022
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Shame that happened, but a pre-paid fedex label is a big deal. That thing could cost a fortune to ship !
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Google Logitech Z906. I think its perfect for your particular need.
Skripka
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thuddy imprecise base, tinny speakers...crappy cabling that will rot out internally in short order....
Yup, exactly what everyone needs.