Attention! You do not need antivirus!

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Agreed.

Hey, as long as its just you thats fine.

I, personally, have a LAN of 6-8 computers going at a time at home for various things. That includes my computers for my wife and children. While I know my ins-and-outs I sleep better at night with the extra protection and the cost to performance is negligible.

In addition, it gives me something to practice things on since my workplace sure won't let me experiment. heheheh.
 
My god, the amount of ignorance in this thread astounds me! And believe me, being astounded by ignorance is tough for me, I'm surrounded by it on a daily basis..

"My machine, my network, my money" and "CAUSE I CAN NAME EVERY PROCESS IN TASK MANAGER" are certainly towards the top of the ignorance list though..

A reccurent theme i am seeing amongst the ignorant here seem to be the "Its worked well for me so far," and "But, I've never caught a virus before"

-sp
 
Hardware antivirus applicance & Hardware firewall systems.
Software antivirus on all machines & software firewalls on all machines.

Virus free for 4 years and running.

You can yak all you want to me about how you can be virus free without running any hardware/software firewalls & antivirus packages, but as far as I'm concerned, it's BS.

Don't be a Zombie. Protect your assets & your network. Utilize AV & Firewall solutions.
 
WOW, i'd like to know how you guys can sense or feel the virus/worm before it ever executes. And you watch your processes in realtime, even when gaming, damn you must be good.

As for AV software catching stuff in the wild, well that's part of engine design. Most AV software will still flag a virus before a definition is written.

Hell, even on my machine running Norton only dropped my 3dMark score by about 10 points, and maybe lost 1 FPS.
 
things could be worse, when i see people say that they dont need any anti-spyware software and that clearing your cookies and internet cache will do the job just fine, then ill be angry.
 
DigitalisAkujin said:
CAUSE I CAN NAME EVERY PROCESS IN TASK MANAGER
.
Click to expand...

Okay genius, whats svchost.exe? Thank you, drive through... :p And for you "I've never had a virus guys", think back over all the countless installs where something was wrong with your system and you were like "screw it I'll just reinstall." How do you know it wasn't a virus? Thinking you can't get a virus is like thinking your body can't get sick. Sure you can control whether or not it does to a certain extent. But you cannot guarantee it. Not while having a cable connecting your world to the magic of the Intarnet.
 
OldPueblo said:
Okay genius, whats svchost.exe? Thank you, drive through... :p And for you "I've never had a virus guys", think back over all the countless installs where something was wrong with your system and you were like "screw it I'll just reinstall." How do you know it wasn't a virus? Thinking you can't get a virus is like thinking your body can't get sick. Sure you can control whether or not it does to a certain extent. But you cannot guarantee it. Not while having a cable connecting your world to the magic of the Intarnet.
Click to expand...

GIT-R-DONE

thank you, if i had a joint or a beer and you were standing next to me, id pass it to you.
 
DigitalisAkujin said:
Maybe not in windows 95 :p

Even if it attached itself to another EXE like Explorer.exe. It still shows up.
Click to expand...

dude, you're shooting yourself in the foot. Now wise up and get a clue that many if not most bad sh*t that happens does so in a concealed manner. Most of the time you're not going to be able to know if you are infected.

-sp
 
look, it's pretty simple. i have a few viruses saved up on my linux box. just PM me and i'll give ya access. he'll learn pretty fast, i hope.
 
I'm definetly not ignorant. I know whats out there. I have some sourcecode in C++ for some the well known Worms out there. They don't just spread on one exploit. Each one has like 20 exploits to scan coded in. You can tell it to scan random IP address or a certain set or random within a certain set.

They are also EASILY binded with a home made binder application and masked. A virus that is binded to a home made binder USSUALLY won't be detected by virus scans. I know, I'v tested.

This is where my confidence comes from. I've been in the worm making community so I KNOW what is out there. I also know now to click "yes" when I look at warez websites when a popup comes up. Following some few simple rules will always save you from being infected. And if you are which I have by adware a few times (but not once since Sp2 came out) there are ways to fix it. Even if I have to do it without an application like adaware it's fairly easy to do if you know where to look.
 
DigitalisAkujin said:
My point in saying that wasn't "just because". You obviously missed my point therefore you shouldn't really participate in this conversation cause it does require a brain.

My point was that if I can name every EXE in my task manager then that means I will know if something is a virus/trojan/spyware or not. It's also fairly easy to detect IE plugins and spyware/viruses that attach onto other exes like explorer for example.
Click to expand...

Excuse me, I do have a brain, and I'll participaite in the conversation, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!

No I was right on the point... Any process list in Task Manager can be looked up in one shape for or fashion with Google. (As with anything, if you use the right search terms you can get the right answer).

Don't try to make yourself to be any better than anyone on this thread, because you're not !!! Plain and simple.... you might know a lot of info, but that doesn't mean your smarter than any of the rest of us.
 
OldPueblo said:
Okay genius, whats svchost.exe? Thank you, drive through... :p And for you "I've never had a virus guys", think back over all the countless installs where something was wrong with your system and you were like "screw it I'll just reinstall." How do you know it wasn't a virus? Thinking you can't get a virus is like thinking your body can't get sick. Sure you can control whether or not it does to a certain extent. But you cannot guarantee it. Not while having a cable connecting your world to the magic of the Intarnet.
Click to expand...
SVChost is a collection of windows services. Some run on their own EXE but SVChost provides these services one easy exe to run out of. Without it you would see 10 - 15 or so more processes in task manager.
 
rgroves said:
Excuse me, I do have a brain, and I'll participaite in the conversation, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!

No I was right on the point... Any process list in Task Manager can be looked up in one shape for or fashion with Google. (As with anything, if you use the right search terms you can get the right answer).

Don't try to make yourself to be any better than anyone on this thread, because you're not !!! Plain and simple.... you might know a lot of info, but that doesn't mean your smarter than any of the rest of us.
Click to expand...
I'm not, I didn't say I was. I was stating my point and then I got labeled "ignorent". Excuse me for knowing how to maintain my computer.
 
rgroves said:
...No I was right on the point... Any process list in Task Manager can be looked up in one shape for or fashion with Google. (As with anything, if you use the right search terms you can get the right answer).
...
Click to expand...

omg, look what i found in literally 5 second... :D

http://www.windowsstartup.com/wso/search.php

this thread has turned into a flame war :rolleyes:
 
acascianelli said:
omg, look what i found in literally 5 second..

http://www.windowsstartup.com/wso/search.php
Click to expand...

yet again ur missing the point

just knowing what they do what get you anywhere

it's knowing what they are and knowing what their function is plus being able to pick out something thats not supposed to be there

I know many people who open up task manager and see random exes. They don't know what they are. They assume those exes should be there. And then they wonder why they have random popups while playing a game.
 
DigitalisAkujin said:
I'm definetly not ignorant. I know whats out there. I have some sourcecode in C++ for some the well known Worms out there. They don't just spread on one exploit. Each one has like 20 exploits to scan coded in. You can tell it to scan random IP address or a certain set or random within a certain set.

They are also EASILY binded with a home made binder application and masked. A virus that is binded to a home made binder USSUALLY won't be detected by virus scans. I know, I'v tested.

This is where my confidence comes from. I've been in the worm making community so I KNOW what is out there. I also know now to click "yes" when I look at warez websites when a popup comes up. Following some few simple rules will always save you from being infected. And if you are which I have by adware a few times (but not once since Sp2 came out) there are ways to fix it. Even if I have to do it without an application like adaware it's fairly easy to do if you know where to look.
Click to expand...

your cockiness will be your downfall. In the almost 12+ years I've been computing theres one thing I learned quickly. There will always be someone smarter, better, faster (etc) then you. Keep your confidence in check before your ass gets handed to you.

And for the record, while I dont have anything personal against you, I do believe at a minimum you are being ignorant (but perhaps are not always). This doesn't mean I think you've had a virus before, or that you will eventually get one. This means I believe you're not open to the possiblity of something happening to you thats beyond your control.

-sp
 
sphantom said:
My god, the amount of ignorance in this thread astounds me! And believe me, being astounded by ignorance is tough for me, I'm surrounded by it on a daily basis..

"My machine, my network, my money" and "CAUSE I CAN NAME EVERY PROCESS IN TASK MANAGER" are certainly towards the top of the ignorance list though..

A reccurent theme i am seeing amongst the ignorant here seem to be the "Its worked well for me so far," and "But, I've never caught a virus before"

-sp
Click to expand...

Come now. Didn't you know that every virus writer supports showing themselves off in the task manager so that they're easy targets for virus removal? Now who's the ignorant one??
:rolleyes: :p

JTY said:
WOW, i'd like to know how you guys can sense or feel the virus/worm before it ever executes. And you watch your processes in realtime, even when gaming, damn you must be good.
Click to expand...

Don't be an idiot. It isn't called "The Force" for nothing. :D
 
I'm sorry, but in this day and age if you are on a 'high speed' line and aren't behind a firewall and have AV running you're asking for it.

That would be like an F-1 driver racing without a helmet, harness or fire gear on. Just stupid.


I've long been of the opinion that people who get a high speed line should be put through a 4 hour course on what the internet is, how it works and use of the common tools that people use to get on common services.

If you aren't running AV you are endangering every person that is some how connected to you. So use it! Same with a firewall, even if it's just the basic software Windows one.

People who don't run AV are nuts. It's like saying "I'm never patching any of my software because it works now". What about new bugs that are discovered? or speed improvements? or new standards that need to implemented? or new security issues that are found years later?

Patch it and protect it people! Wrap it up!
 
One more point that needs to be made here. Seeing that you have a virus and getting rid of it in a cool and amazingly awesome manner is not the same as not catching it in the first place. If you see a suspicious service in your task manager and your eyes roll back in their sockets as you access the virus database lodged in your skull to see what it is... Guess what? If its a virus, you already got it. If you scan for spyware or use an online scanner every once in awhile to see if you have one, and they find a virus... Guess what? You already have it. "Hey doc, I saved you some time and diagnosed myself with cancer. What I still have to deal with it?"
 
DigitalisAkujin said:
*sigh* Again please refer here for a reply:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1026735726&postcount=135
Click to expand...

Gee, I beg to differ... If you had even bothered to look at the site you'll notice several things list about each and every service they have record of.

1) TaskList name - as it appears in the Task Manager
2) Program Manufacturer - Hmm could that be who created the darn thing?
3a) What it is - Hmm, again I'm confused, could this be what it does?
3b) What you can do with it - Well for you it would be STFU, but for the rest of us it tells us that it's either a part of the operating system, possibly a virus, etc, etc, etc...
 
It's the nature of the environment your computer is in that determines exactly how your security measures should be implemented. In the corporate and government environment a continuously running anti-virus AND anti-spybot program is essential. Seriously, you don't want a system with top secret information to fall victim to a key logger or spybot just because someone needs to view a few web sites on it and read their email. The paranoia and overhead is worthwhile. Of course, systems such as this are on firewalls within firewalls, but still can be vulnerable when some bonehead just has to have that cartoon screen saver. Remember that Cisco commercial where the boss is told a worm was caught and neutralized and he asks how it got in and his daughter comes running all excited about her new neat video game she downloaded on his computer (at work).

Nevertheless, with dilligent self government and system oversight, you can run a fairly secure system without having to have a pain in the butt anti-virus program hogging your productivity and CPU cycles. Yes, keeping your system updated is a start and running behind a firewall/NAT is essential.

A well configured network can prevent 80% of the potential dangers of worms and system hijacking. Also, eliminating the safety of a NAT by forwarding all requests to your computer has got to be the dumbest thing I ever heard. Those of you that do it on a Windows computer are already compromised no matter how confident you are that your aren't. Zone Alarm and Windows Firewall are good deterrants, but not perfect. A simple NAT is much more secure than that software is. Want proof that forwarding all requests to your system is completely stupid? Turn it off and watch all of the receive activity on your cable modem (DSL's are less likely to have this phenominon). Stick a packet sniffer on it. Guess what, 99% of those flashes are from compromised systems on the cable network scanning the entire class B of addresses for new victims. With a good NAT with firewall, the LAN side is silent. If you forward all requests to your computer, then you defeat the purpose of the NAT and firewall.

What about if you have IM and gaming? Fine, open those ports only, and if paranoid, only open them when using them. Otherwise, keep the rest of the ports not forwarded. This is how my network is configured. I only have specific ports forwarded for my programs that absolutely require it for proper operation. IM programs don't need it unless transferring files. Games only need specific port forwarding if you are running a game server.

You are more likely to get a virus on your system by someone using your system that does not have much computer knowledge regardless of what you tell them.

I do not run a virus program. I do, occasionally install and scan my system with 30 trial copies from Norton or McAfee and have never found viri. Why? I don't use Microsoft email programs, nor their browsers. I use Eudora Pro and Mozilla Firefox. I do, however, use Spybot Search & Destroy, Adaware SE, and Spyware guard regularly as they are more likely to damage my system than a virus has a chance of infecting my system.

My Cable provider, COX, already has a virus scanner on my incoming email and I have configured it to delete all infected attachments before it even reaches me. My Eudora is set to make inline MIME as attachments instead of directly running scripts and Javascript. I NEVER run any attachment unless I know I sent it myself as a clean file. I never go to a web site from Spam email.

Dilligence is going to save you much more than relying upon a piece of software written by someone else. Sure, they help, but your own security efforts and smart usage habits will and can be just as good, if not a better deterrant to outside forces using your computer. However, don't be a bonehead, DO scan your system occasionally and any time it exhibits unusual behavior. Part of recognizing this is to glance at your switch or hub for traffic on the network that should not be there.

I used to hate Netscape and Mozilla and I really did like Internet Explorer. However, like all of Microsoft's software, it is just too insecure to use anymore. I first moved to Mozilla 1.7.3 and was pleasantly surprised at how much more advanced it has become over IE. I finally tried Firefox when it became a release candidate and then punched myself for not using it earlier. It is so much better than IE ever was and I am glad I no longer use IE. It's faster, the tabbed browsing is great and it even has a download manager, which I greatly enjoy (something only the Mac version of IE had). It no longer has the font and positioning issues Mozilla once had.

I only recommend my method of virus avoidance if you have the sort of computer, network, software, hardware, and usage knowledge as I do. I have been using, building, programming, modifying, designing new devices for, computers since 1982.

If you regularly move your computer out of a controlled environment, such as LAN parties, then you should have as much protection software running as possible and should be set to maximum paranoid level as long as it's plugged into that network. If you don't then you are an idoit and frankly deserve any worm you get.
 
rgroves said:
Gee, I beg to differ... If you had even bothered to look at the site you'll notice several things list about each and every service they have record of.

1) TaskList name - as it appears in the Task Manager
2) Program Manufacturer - Hmm could that be who created the darn thing?
3a) What it is - Hmm, again I'm confused, could this be what it does?
3b) What you can do with it - Well for you it would be STFU, but for the rest of us it tells us that it's either a part of the operating system, possibly a virus, etc, etc, etc...
Click to expand...

My personal favorite from that site:

"SVCHOST.EXE

Many viruses masquerade themselves as SVCHOST to escape detection. Some have names that are similar, such as SCCHOST, others actually drop a program file called SVCHOST in the Windows folder or a Windows sub‑folder.

Recommendation :
The first recommendation is a simple one : always have a good antivirus product which is regularly updated (automatically preferably) and always renew your updates subscription when it expires. To detect if you have a virus that calls itself SVCHOST, first see if its full path shows up in The Ultimate Troubleshooter as either C:\WinNT\System32\Svchost.exe or C:\Windows\System32\Svchost.exe – if it does not, then it is almost certain you have a virus. Secondly, if you have Windows 95/98/ME rather than Win2000/XP/2003, then it is also almost certain you have a virus. Thirdly, go to the Services tab of The Ultimate Troubleshooter and look for the following service – if you find it then you probably have a virus too :

System Important Message service"
 
sphantom said:
your cockiness will be your downfall. In the almost 12+ years I've been computing theres one thing I learned quickly. There will always be someone smarter, better, faster (etc) then you. Keep your confidence in check before your ass gets handed to you.

And for the record, while I dont have anything personal against you, I do believe at a minimum you are being ignorant (but perhaps are not always). This doesn't mean I think you've had a virus before, or that you will eventually get one. This means I believe you're not open to the possiblity of something happening to you thats beyond your control.

-sp
Click to expand...

First of I'd like to say thanks for not being a dick like everyone else is in your reply.

I agree, I am being very cocky. But I always look at it from "whats better in the long run" point of view. If I did have anti-virus and firewall. The time it takes for me to update, maintain, click "ok" when firewall asks me to allow that application or not would take much longer then formatting once or twice a year cause of some virus infection. This is all assuming that this virus that I got infected with was so catastrophic that I couldn't simply fix it myself.

I also said before that if someone wants they can hack me. Again, this is cocky but I truly believe my system is so secure no one will get in. About the only thing anyone can do is DDOS me (and I have experiance this when I said something I shouldn't have in IRC once). In the end it's all about not spreading the virus. In the end if I do get infected with anything there will be a very slight chance I'll infect anyone else simply because I'll know right away if I have one. I know the symptoms, I've worked on many a friend's computers. So I will be able to either get rid of the virus/spyware/adware or I will format. And most of the time I have been able to fix it. I have actually never had to format specifically due to a virus/adware/spyware. I always format because of a change in hardware or I feel it's time to do so because the current applications are killing my speed.
 
DigitalisAkujin said:
I haven't been infected with a virus in 5 years. And you know how I know?
CAUSE I CAN NAME EVERY PROCESS IN TASK MANAGER
Click to expand...
Hey - cool. So can I!!! I just wish I knew what each of those pesky svchost.exe processes were ... and why WinDoze :rolleyes: wont let me delete them.

BTW - that was a tongue in cheek response.

Everyone has different levels of vulnerability. Data on my machine is crucial to my job. I work remotely, so I don't have the luxury of sitting behind a corporate firewall, I sit at the end of a domestic roadrunner cable modem service. I back up my data regularly, it is important to me, and I know that my network is secure --- UNTIL each night when my wife comes home. Her laptop sits docked in an Informaiton Science school office all day. Colleges are rife with infected machines because morons wont patch, or run antivirii software. She has McAfee on her machine, and it is kept current, but as much as I trust her, my data is too important not to take precautions whenever she attaches to the house LAN.

If you sit behind a firewall, and have no friends that connect to your LAN, and have everything locked down in your bunker so tight no packets are flowing - more power to you. Unfortunately I live in the real world. People aren't out to get me, but many people carry virii on the computers the same way they carry the flu virus - unknown to them, but spreading infection where ever they go.

I'll take my virtual flu shot - having 9Mb fo McAfee VirusShield running is a small price to pay.
 
I don't use AV either, I use Linux. ;)

sc0tty8 said:
It is better then that nutscrap/firefox crap, and there is nothing wrong with it, I have never had a problem with it, so, why would I change it out? Can you tell me it has cause you problems? Firefox is not as secure as most seem to think, either. As it gains popularity, there will be more probs with it. My friend is a linux/opensource guru, and he does not use it, tells me something...
Click to expand...

?! We're talking security now? Man, I'm not anti-Microsoft, but your comparing Firefox, a great browser in the last few revisions, to one that has probably had the most security holes in it than any other.
If your friend is a linux/opensource guru, he wouldn't be using IE.
 
OldPueblo said:
My personal favorite from that site:

"SVCHOST.EXE

Many viruses masquerade themselves as SVCHOST to escape detection. Some have names that are similar, such as SCCHOST, others actually drop a program file called SVCHOST in the Windows folder or a Windows sub‑folder.

Recommendation :
The first recommendation is a simple one : always have a good antivirus product which is regularly updated (automatically preferably) and always renew your updates subscription when it expires. To detect if you have a virus that calls itself SVCHOST, first see if its full path shows up in The Ultimate Troubleshooter as either C:\WinNT\System32\Svchost.exe or C:\Windows\System32\Svchost.exe – if it does not, then it is almost certain you have a virus. Secondly, if you have Windows 95/98/ME rather than Win2000/XP/2003, then it is also almost certain you have a virus. Thirdly, go to the Services tab of The Ultimate Troubleshooter and look for the following service – if you find it then you probably have a virus too :

System Important Message service"
Click to expand...


Very true. However detecting the difference is also very easy. Different ram consumption. Also one time I have written one that used svch0st.exe so I know this method very well. Most of the time though something like win32krnl.exe sounds so much more "official".
 
I don't run an antivirus program, but I have one installed, I don't have a fire wall either, my DSL modem has one built in.
I only use my virus scanner after I download a file, but I don't have it running in the background, and I update my box quite frequently.
The company I work for got hit with a virus when I first started, I rushed home to patch my box, only to find that I had already patched it a month ago!
As long as you keep your box updated I don't think you will get a virus.
The last LAN I went to had a virus floating around, and I forgot to patch my server, it got done, but my main machine was fine, thankfully Windows 2003 is a little bit more risillient to viruses, so I managed to patch the server before the virus did anything.
and as a general rule I will scan my network for viruses after any LANs I hold/go to.
 
DigitalisAkujin said:
Very true. However detecting the difference is also very easy. Different ram consumption. Also one time I have written one that used svch0st.exe so I know this method very well. Most of the time though something like win32krnl.exe sounds so much more "official".
Click to expand...

Is it that easy? I have two machines in front of me with svchost's ranging from below 1MB to over 20MB. You know, if you don't leave your house you can never get hit by a car either. Very easy way to stay safe. Look do me a favor and just type these words. "You are safer when you use AV." Because thats the heart of this matter, not "are you awesome and dont use AV" or "do I have to?" The overall thing here is SHOULD you. And that answer is yes. :)
 
Everyone I know that doesn't use an antivirus, firewall, AND antispyware has had to reformat their harddrive. If you live in a dorm you friggin need it! A few years ago you would be almost ok without running an antivirus but today they are everywhere.

I have a buddy that thought that he didn't need any protection because he knew so much about computers :rolleyes: . Now he has a shit load of trojans and everytime he opens up IE or changes webpages there are popups. :p

I've been running av, fw, and anitspyware for years and never had any problems because they caught all viruses and trojans.
 
It takes me 15 minutes a week at most to maintain my AV and Internet Security software. That beats the hell out of taking 30-45 minutes reinstalling the OS then several hours reinstalling my apps. Not to mention losing data that hasn't been backed up yet. The 15 minutes is definitely worth it and I would spend 2 hrs a week if I had to to maintain it.
 
DigitalisAkujin said:
Very true. However detecting the difference is also very easy. Different ram consumption. Also one time I have written one that used svch0st.exe so I know this method very well. Most of the time though something like win32krnl.exe sounds so much more "official".
Click to expand...

Ignorant and arrogant? Not all virus processes will show up in the task manager. And no, I don't care if you think I'm a dick for calling you out on this.

BTW, you don't host your own web site. Imagine that. Do you suppose your web host runs AV and firewalls for you?

; <<>> DiG 9.2.2-P3 <<>> www.digitalisakujin.com
;; global options: printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 62811
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;www.digitalisakujin.com. IN A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
www.digitalisakujin.com. 14400 IN CNAME digitalisakujin.com.
digitalisakujin.com. 14400 IN A 216.127.92.58

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
digitalisakujin.com. 14400 IN NS NS1.uberhoster.com.
digitalisakujin.com. 14400 IN NS NS2.uberhoster.com.

;; Query time: 173 msec
;; SERVER: X.X.X.X#53(X.X.X.X)
;; WHEN: Wed Oct 13 15:01:15 2004
;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 118
 
Wolf-R1 said:
Ignorant and arrogant? Not all virus processes will show up in the task manager. And no, I don't care if you think I'm a dick for calling you out on this.

BTW, you don't host your own web site. Imagine that. Do you suppose your web host runs AV and firewalls for you?

; <<>> DiG 9.2.2-P3 <<>> www.digitalisakujin.com
;; global options: printcmd
;; Got answer:
;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 62811
;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 2, ADDITIONAL: 0

;; QUESTION SECTION:
;www.digitalisakujin.com. IN A

;; ANSWER SECTION:
www.digitalisakujin.com. 14400 IN CNAME digitalisakujin.com.
digitalisakujin.com. 14400 IN A 216.127.92.58

;; AUTHORITY SECTION:
digitalisakujin.com. 14400 IN NS NS1.uberhoster.com.
digitalisakujin.com. 14400 IN NS NS2.uberhoster.com.

;; Query time: 173 msec
;; SERVER: X.X.X.X#53(X.X.X.X)
;; WHEN: Wed Oct 13 15:01:15 2004
;; MSG SIZE rcvd: 118
Click to expand...

Yes however the operating system is Red Hat 7.3 I believe and I obviously don't use the server for day to day computer use. I don't see what your trying to prove.
 
Wolf-R1 said:
Ignorant and arrogant? Not all virus processes will show up in the task manager. And no, I don't care if you think I'm a dick for calling you out on this.

BTW, you don't host your own web site. Imagine that. Do you suppose your web host runs AV and firewalls for you?
Click to expand...
He said (quite away back - page 3? 4?) that "mach1.digitalisakujin.com is a vhost assigned to my IP" - so there is more information for you ... he is running a non static IP address. He is also running PHP, and the page generated is poorly formated (no </body></html> close tags).

While content on the site is minimal (non existant without loggin in I guess), I do like the "toppic.jpg" banner - I was going to pick on you for spelling topic wrong until I realised a.) it was "top" "pic" and b.) my spelling is no better :)

If the challenge is to hack/break his web site. There is lots of information out there you can use to exploit - you just need to dig.
 
This whole arguement has become weighted down with the two typical stereotypes. The ignorent user that runs no protection at all and d/l's everything, and the overly paranoid user. How and what you run on your computer is all about risk. I admit that on my home network I don't run an AV, but am behind a hardware firewall. I know that I am taking a risk and that I am more likely to get a virus. Does anyone really think that jumping on my post and calling me ignorent going to really make me change my mind and agree?

I think that many of the posters here need to take a step back and really think about what they have said. Right now both sides sound like a bunch of self exalted asses.

There is a healthy middle ground here, a balance between the risks and performance(I couldn't think of a better word :( ) There are times when everyone here will stop running their virus scan to perform some task, and times where everyone will agree that an AV is absolutely nessicary.

IMO we should shift this thead away from the name calling and answer the question: When is it OK to not run AV? And always and never are not acceptable answers.

Rant over.
 
DigitalisAkujin said:
Yes however the operating system is Red Hat 7.3 I believe and I obviously don't use the server for day to day computer use. I don't see what your trying to prove.
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Should I pull up the list of vulnerable RPM modules for RHL 7.3 as well?

The point is that you need firewalling and you need AV as multi-tiered defences. Nothing is safe and never really will be. As long as it's there and it's a challenge someone might try to get into it and the more difficult it is to get to it the more likely it is that they'll get tired of fighting with it and look for an easier target.

As far as viruses are concerned, sure 90% of all viruses are Windows borne but that doesn't mean that you're not vulnerable even if you lock your system down. M$ has a nasty habit of sitting on the exploit information for a period of time while they work on the patch. Then they release the knowledge and the patch in a flurry as if they're coming in to save the day. And the point there is...how can you lock down something that Windows doesn't allow you to lock down? Linux allows you to get down and dirty with the OS locking down all sorts of things at all different levels. Windows allows for no such thing. You can kill off services. Change a couple of ports here and there but that's about it without 3rd party help.

Ultimately Windows isn't conducive on it's own to security and exploit protection. Viruses aren't just for email anymore kids...that's why some are called "worms" and others are called "trojans", etc...
 
EvilTwig said:
Ignorance is bliss :)
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Yeah, but bliss can also make you ignorant too... ;) In a world filled with Virii, spyware and other crap, protection is a must. Being on the net without AV protection & Firewall is like being in a whorehouse without condoms. Sooner or later you'll get yours.... :rolleyes:
 
After reading pretty much all the posts I noticed something interesting, those who don't run AV have many reasons for not which some being - CPU hog, "practice safe surfing", keep my machine patched. My best friend runs his machine with all ports on his dsl router pointing to it, my inlaws ran a cable modem without telling me on a unpatched win98 box. They're both of the opinion that they don't have anything important on their machines. What they don't realize is that if they have a compromised machine and it does damage to someone's network they could be found liable for the damages for they would have to prove that they did not do it. So your data may not be critical but what about those people's networks that are being hammered by your infected box? If you don't run AV how do you know you don't have a virus? Just because you know everything in taskmanager doesn't mean it's not there. A friend of mine wrote a program that keeps changing the pid so fast that taskmgr doesn't refresh fast enough to display it. Practicing safe computing is not just for your safety but for other peoples safety too.

If you don't want to run AV because you don't care about your machines at least run the free AV software out there to protect others in case you get owned. Especially at a lan party.

Just my .02$ worth.
 
SVChost is a collection of windows services. Some run on their own EXE but SVChost provides these services one easy exe to run out of. Without it you would see 10 - 15 or so more processes in task manager.
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Perfect and ubiquitous target for a rootkit-type (invisibility) exploit. And how would you be able to tell that there was a malign process attached from the Task Manager Processes window?

It seems to me you are not as safe as you would believe.
 
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