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i wonder how fast the above noob post will get deleted
lolZ... Well this guy won't last long... heh j/k
i wonder how fast the above noob post will get deleted
Yes you wouldn't want to question Kyle, that would be sacralicious.
I'd rather see him reply to the post with facts, of course he could chose to simply delete the post, but the questions remain, and Kyle should knuckle up and answer them.
Previous e-mail experience with him leads me to believe he doesn't like being questioned, but he's at least answered questions when challenged.
What you're doing Kyle is similar to complaining about the fuel efficiency & length of a Bugatti Veyron!
not enough page views recently since you don't have an early board and are obviously Pi$$ed at being left out unlike VR-Zone, Overclockers, etc?
Either that or maybe give you the benefit of the doubt, and it's just poor fact checking (who edits the editor?), either way nothing new, no better than the InQ despite your comments. At least they're known as a 50/50 crapshoot rumour-mill, you pretend to be a source for [H]ard News.
You obviously need a break from the site dude, your objectivity is gone completely, and you're definitely no longer [H]ardcore if you're not just more concerned about these issues instead of performance, but so concerned about them they drive you to wild hysterics clouding your critical thought.
PROVE me wrong, BUT PROVE IT for FAQ sake!
What you posted is something I'd expect from a n00b who just found the level505 site and said 'OMFG look what I found about the R600!' without questioning it or doing a bit of research.
There is a bit of that aura around here that nobody really questions Kyle for fear of getting banned and all that and I think it's sad. You should be able to question anybody to an extent without worrying about your account getting banned just because they have power over you.
Why comment on the 'space required' versus actual length Kyle? Oh that's right you don't have one.
Still you could've checked the actual cards in other people's hands like that first posted by VR-Zone showing 12.5 inches for the OEM version. Could it be that the story isn't as poignant if your 13+" number isn't bigger than the GF7900GX2 length?
So ATi recommends the R600 required 13.6", what does the 7900GX2 require 14+"?
Or did you just forget that the GF7900GX2 was bigger than the GF7950GX2 and the GF8800GTX as well, and from the looks of things it's bigger than the R600 to?
And being as it's the OEM version like the GX2 was OEM only, the OEM can pick the case that fits it when building their UberRig, I think AlienDELL and VoodooHP can figure out how to get it in there, and as long as it is effective cooling and good performance it'll be another option just like the GTX.
Also the power requirements you state that ATi says the SYSTEM will require 300W and then you go on to comment on the GTX only requiring 180W (which is for the card alone not the system). And BTW kyle the fan on the OEM version runs @ 12v 2A (aka ~24W for the FAN ALONE !!) hence the OEM version being more than the typical retail cooling with it's impressive 12V @ 0.13-0.5A HSF (hey wow that's about the ~20W difference people are talking about!).
http://overclockers.com/articles1411/pic2.jpg
http://www.arctic-cooling.com/pics/ati5_04h.jpg
BTW, how do you get 300W out of a 75W PCIe and an 8+6 pin configuration, because you KNOW they aren't about to further shorten the market segment by making it PCIe 2.0 only as a requirement. (meaning it could be 2.0 but then one power connector would be optional [ala GF6Ultra] for when you plug into PCIe1.1 slots).
ALSO who gives a flying FAQ about power and size concerns when talking about these eP3n1$ boards for Bungholio feeders? And if your room is 90F in the summer get a Damn air conditioner and don't tell me about saving the F'in planet Kyle, if you aren't using an EDEN CPU with integrated VIA/S3 graphics you're not eco-friendly. So suck it up and stop complaining about stuff that should only be concerns of people who don't build killer rigs and are more concerned about cool and quiet rigs (for thing like HTPC or professional editing use [where a passive cooler is hardware security]). Seriously you run a review site for a living, make your home-office to accommodate this dude, it's not like you aren't getting paid and you're simply doing this in you spare time.
What you're doing Kyle is similar to complaining about the fuel efficiency & length of a Bugatti Veyron!
Did you come up with the 'Length' porno reference before writing the body of the article? Looks like you tailored the content to match the title, not write the title after finishing the article. While I don't think you're pro either IHV, you do love to sensationalize every once in a while when the site gets dull, similar to other sites. Just makes you a questionable source for 'news'. Is S3/VIA next on the list, do their DX10.1 VPUs run on the souls of newborns?
Smells like a little number cooking @ [H], FUDged for effect Kyle, not enough page views recently since you don't have an early board and are obviously Pi$$ed at being left out unlike VR-Zone, Overclockers, etc?
Either that or maybe give you the benefit of the doubt, and it's just poor fact checking (who edits the editor?), either way nothing new, no better than the InQ despite your comments. At least they're known as a 50/50 crapshoot rumour-mill, you pretend to be a source for [H]ard News.
You obviously need a break from the site dude, your objectivity is gone completely, and you're definitely no longer [H]ardcore if you're not just more concerned about these issues instead of performance, but so concerned about them they drive you to wild hysterics clouding your critical thought.
PROVE me wrong, BUT PROVE IT for FAQ sake!
What you posted is something I'd expect from a n00b who just found the level505 site and said 'OMFG look what I found about the R600!' without questioning it or doing a bit of research.
Go spend more time with your family and stop reading/writing Op-Eds for a while.
I've questioned Kyle and Brent on a few occassions, there is a certain way to write a post which shows respect to the person, any person, doesn't have to be a mod or owner of a site.
I agree with some of the things you are saying, but there is such a thing as a polite disagreement and not bolding huge words.
For logical sane talk about the released information Beyond3D is the place to be.
Actaully the Bugatti has very good fuel economy for a W18 engine and its 2 ton+ weight and performance and being AWD, it has better fuel economy then a Hummer or Farrari Enzo, so your analogy is very poor.
Now where did Kyle say anything bad about performance or the power used, he just stated the facts that were given to him, and his opinions about them is that wrong?
Edit in the article he did state that these might not be the final boards, if you actually read the entire article you would know that
The people here on this forum are just as open to sane discussion as anywhere else, they just do it with a little less self-importance and snobbery than other sites; it doesn't mean that abject rudeness is tolerated here.
It also includes being intelligent. Only a fool would purchase a product that heated up the house, required dremelling the case and required a kilowatt power supply at the time of purchase. If you overclock the crap out of something and it needs all of that, then see above, that's [H]. If you buy it already in that state, you are a fool.
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=7995 - Just saw this, seems external is in the works. Maybe they are banking on this?
Why comment on the 'space required' versus actual length Kyle? Oh that's right you don't have one.
Still you could've checked the actual cards in other people's hands like that first posted by VR-Zone showing 12.5 inches for the OEM version. Could it be that the story isn't as poignant if your 13+" number isn't bigger than the GF7900GX2 length?
So ATi recommends the R600 required 13.6", what does the 7900GX2 require 14+"?
Or did you just forget that the GF7900GX2 was bigger than the GF7950GX2 and the GF8800GTX as well, and from the looks of things it's bigger than the R600 to?
And being as it's the OEM version like the GX2 was OEM only, the OEM can pick the case that fits it when building their UberRig, I think AlienDELL and VoodooHP can figure out how to get it in there, and as long as it is effective cooling and good performance it'll be another option just like the GTX.
Also the power requirements you state that ATi says the SYSTEM will require 300W and then you go on to comment on the GTX only requiring 180W (which is for the card alone not the system). And BTW kyle the fan on the OEM version runs @ 12v 2A (aka ~24W for the FAN ALONE !!) hence the OEM version being more than the typical retail cooling with it's impressive 12V @ 0.13-0.5A HSF (hey wow that's about the ~20W difference people are talking about!).
http://overclockers.com/articles1411/pic2.jpg
http://www.arctic-cooling.com/pics/ati5_04h.jpg
BTW, how do you get 300W out of a 75W PCIe and an 8+6 pin configuration, because you KNOW they aren't about to further shorten the market segment by making it PCIe 2.0 only as a requirement. (meaning it could be 2.0 but then one power connector would be optional [ala GF6Ultra] for when you plug into PCIe1.1 slots).
ALSO who gives a flying FAQ about power and size concerns when talking about these eP3n1$ boards for Bungholio feeders? And if your room is 90F in the summer get a Damn air conditioner and don't tell me about saving the F'in planet Kyle, if you aren't using an EDEN CPU with integrated VIA/S3 graphics you're not eco-friendly. So suck it up and stop complaining about stuff that should only be concerns of people who don't build killer rigs and are more concerned about cool and quiet rigs (for thing like HTPC or professional editing use [where a passive cooler is hardware security]). Seriously you run a review site for a living, make your home-office to accommodate this dude, it's not like you aren't getting paid and you're simply doing this in you spare time.
What you're doing Kyle is similar to complaining about the fuel efficiency & length of a Bugatti Veyron!
Did you come up with the 'Length' porno reference before writing the body of the article? Looks like you tailored the content to match the title, not write the title after finishing the article. While I don't think you're pro either IHV, you do love to sensationalize every once in a while when the site gets dull, similar to other sites. Just makes you a questionable source for 'news'. Is S3/VIA next on the list, do their DX10.1 VPUs run on the souls of newborns?
Smells like a little number cooking @ [H], FUDged for effect Kyle, not enough page views recently since you don't have an early board and are obviously Pi$$ed at being left out unlike VR-Zone, Overclockers, etc?
Either that or maybe give you the benefit of the doubt, and it's just poor fact checking (who edits the editor?), either way nothing new, no better than the InQ despite your comments. At least they're known as a 50/50 crapshoot rumour-mill, you pretend to be a source for [H]ard News.
You obviously need a break from the site dude, your objectivity is gone completely, and you're definitely no longer [H]ardcore if you're not just more concerned about these issues instead of performance, but so concerned about them they drive you to wild hysterics clouding your critical thought.
PROVE me wrong, BUT PROVE IT for FAQ sake!
What you posted is something I'd expect from a n00b who just found the level505 site and said 'OMFG look what I found about the R600!' without questioning it or doing a bit of research.
Go spend more time with your family and stop reading/writing Op-Eds for a while.
The Veyron is a W16, not W18 (two 9 cylinder engines you were thinking? interesting), and an R600 may be 'efficient' for what it brings to the table, however you don't know what that is yet do you, and obviously neither does Kyle, and that's the point. If all you can complain about is size and power/heat concerns, then really, how [H]ardcore are you? If the R600 does more for less energy consumption than the X1950XTX in Xfire (like the GTX often does) then it's a step forward now isn't it? It should be no surprise that something with much more performance is far more power consuming, and actually would take up less space than an Xfire assembly although it'll be more awkward and it may not fit in some cases Xfire might have, but that's similar to the GTX initially, some people had to decide how hardcore they were and whether a case upgrade was also needed at the time, otherwise there's always the GTX option, and the same goes here, there's always the XL option for those of you with little feet. Or do you not see how that relates?
It's the way he presented them, and some of the things he stated were factually incrorrect and either he purposefully manipulated the article for effect in talking about system power recommendations one moment and then single card requirements the next. You decide whether that's wrong, when the facts he has don't match the arguments he's trying to make. If he goes back far enough to evoke the venerable VooDoo series, and say that the R600 would be the longest, he needs to remember something more recent in the GX2 series and find out whether his statement still applies. If people weren't scared of by it's size with the potential for Quad SLi, those will be the same people who don't care about the length or power consumption of the R600, as long as it ends up being number 1, even if it's only a coupla lousy fps. That's the nature of this segment of the market.
I read the entire article, the entire thread, and the full source article and other people's take on it. Kyle's reaction is the anomaly, and hid reaction in the beginning of this thread is equally unusual. I'm not accusing him of !!!!!!sm, I know he's not, but I am accusing him of the equally poor journalism that he derides the InQ for. And going back and saying 'may not be final board' without changing the statements made on that assumption, is like accusing someone of something and putting the Jim Rome 'allegedly' after it to cover yourself for lawsuits. It's FUD more than fact, and the way it's written pretends this wasn't a concern for the same group of people who were probably already calculating their PSUs for a Quad GTX configuration when news leaked of it's possible support (and even asymmetric SLi).
You may not understand the Veyron analogy, but it's very accurate, because while longer and more fuel consuming than a MacF1, it's also faster, which is really the point of the people paying for it, and even for VW also partially paying for it.
At this point in time if Matrox came out with a card that alone consumed 300W but was twice as fast as the GTX and offered more features, and still allowed the multi-GPU option, all for around the same price, do you not think it's be a success for the target market?
Personally I'm not going to be buying one, until Lasso is a reality (for other reasons than the poster above), but I'm also not complaining about them either, but I am interested in the technology and design, so I got sucked into Kyle article under the heading 'News', of which there is very little [H]ardNews in the article.
This talk of power requirements and card length alone is for people who can't afford to pay their electricity bill, and don't know how to upgrade or mod their case. OEMs are concerned with power and heat envelopes but for their Home/Office machines, not their Alienware/Voodoo marquee machines.
Until the R600 fully launches and demos in it's true environment, 3D/gaming, all this talk about power consumption and heat is like complaining about the cost of a new drug before you realize whether or not it can cure cancer and Aids all at the same time, or whether it's a placebo with bad side effects, hence this artice and the thread it spawned is composed primarily of FUD not news.
Other sites at least talk of the implications of the TeraFlop numbers and the composition of the shaders, here it all about the things that eMachine buyers should be concerning themselves.
A lot of people who live in houses built in the fifties would have a problem getting over 1500 right now. AFAIK that is about when one circuit is gonna start flipping a breaker. Plugging another power supply into another wall connection won't do you any good unless you pull from a separate circuit in the house. Extension chord maybe? lol!when a system draws more then 2400 watts, I think thats when I would start bitching about it, when we have to start using more then 1 power socket to power 1 system, thats getting to be the point when IMHO is way too much.
Hypothetical situation. Is there ever going to be a point where some of you think they've finally gone to far with power requirements?
What if you need a 220 dry circuit to run your computer? How about then? Like when you plug in your brand new X3900 blah blah and it trips a breaker? Wife comes unglued and hits you in the head with a newspaper. lol
At what point does it stop being "whining" and end up being a legit issue?
I think this thread needs a lock.
destro spec demonology or affliction spec? cause you know the felguard isnt all that
A lot of people who live in houses built in the fifties would have a problem getting over 1500 right now. AFAIK that is about when one circuit is gonna start flipping a breaker. Plugging another power supply into another wall connection won't do you any good unless you pull from a separate circuit in the house. Extension chord maybe? lol!
are you suggesting that amd processors aren't energy efficient? don't you remember the entire p4 generation of cpu? you know, the ones that idle at 50'c+. the only reason intel seems to "get it" now was because users complained, reviewers glowered, and they lost market share.
I've questioned Kyle and Brent on a few occassions, there is a certain way to write a post which shows respect to the person, any person, doesn't have to be a mod or owner of a site.
Then I would suggest that you go make this type of post over there and see if they approve. My guess is that they would not. Razor1 is a member there, as am I, and several other people commenting in this thread.
The people here on this forum are just as open to sane discussion as anywhere else, they just do it with a little less self-importance and snobbery than other sites; it doesn't mean that abject rudeness is tolerated here.
A lot of people who live in houses built in the fifties would have a problem getting over 1500 right now. AFAIK that is about when one circuit is gonna start flipping a breaker. Plugging another power supply into another wall connection won't do you any good unless you pull from a separate circuit in the house. Extension chord maybe? lol!
I have seen some very ignorant/fan boi type posts over on Beyond recently,as well as Kyle and [H] bashing,and none of it has been poo poo'd "Kyle isnt the sharpest tool in the Shed"
..... Anyone who knows of Google can find it,and the site its on.... 3+ Mods have seen it,and done nada.Abject rudeness does seem ok over there.
The veyron consumes more fuel then the F1? You really have to look into your cars again, the Veyron on average gets 16 mpg and the F1 gets 12 mpg, and the Enzo gets 14 mpg. Thats why I didn't understand your analogy.
Your underlying tone is not exceptable at B3D either,
in no way did Kyle's article take sides nor was it passionately biased like your post and your continuing comments,
it was actually more words of caution that might hurt AMD's sales of a r600 card if it was to be released like that for retail.
I noticed in your user profile you are studying master in economics, your way of handling something that displeases you will not make you good in the IT business field.
Actually I don't really care about the power issue, thats why you haven't seen me state much about it, I do understand there is a very good chance the x2900 is very fast chip but it will come at a price; power and heat, and I've been saying this for quite some time too, its one of the earlier rumors which the r600 was going to consume more then the g80. And if you want to talk to me about this, you better have more then things then pulling something out of your purple ass.
His article is backed up, I can confirm the power specs on the r600, I still believe the retial cards will use less power, which Kyle's article mentions.
Wow, it takes a serious fan=boy to say "I know it's not that bad!" when the EIC himself is saying "I've got the top-secret ATI specs that aren't even available to you in front of me, it really is that bad." Bravo!
r.
Sure there's never been words there , yes, surprisingly there too considering the usual calibre of participants, but please c'mon.
check around a bit, you will find the gas mileages that I posted.... ..but I can say my Audi S4 at full acceleration doesn't get more then 4 mpg either, so I don't execpt a Mclaren to get much more then what the Veyron gets.
You have no basis to back anything up other then rumors and speculation from other website,
what Kyle has is a specs sheet from AMD, which has much more wieght then anything else that has been said around the web.
Actually you talk like this there too, if you remember we had an arguement there once about the 9800 being used as a mid rage product to fight the 6600 because the x600-x700 wasn't good enough?
I don't care where you post, but you post the same way everywhere even when you are very wrong, so it seems to be a habit for you. Bais in you seems to be an inherited trait, if you don't want to look like an attention deficient baby, start changing the way you post, and start readed articles properly.
240 watts is presumed at this point, no one has seen the retail boards yet! You want him to confirm something that is not possible at this point?
That would be in your definition of good journalism is when he lies or basis a story on rumors, that is what the Inq does, so by your own words you want to believe in the Inq?
Nov till now how many months? You are telling me AMD is on what respin right now on? How do you know that, I want to see your proof and don't base it on rumors.
You are one real arrogent idiot. For your sake I hope you mellow out.