ATI....directionless but not clueless

[Ricko]

Several months ago I posted a thread regarding ATIs diminishing status as a high end consumer cards producer. I was shot at royaly by some of the distinguished and extingiushed patrons of this great site. The reasons vary as to why reality is resisted so tenaciously. However, there are now corresponding witnesses to this claim that cannot be denied. The Inquirer has recently had several articles that point to ATI's desperate search for an answer to Nvidias SLI. Simply, there isn't one. ATI's track record for announcement and then "no-show" OR "slow-show" is now legendary. Any time I go to best buy, etc. the ONLY high-end solution I see is STILL the 9800! Yes, they have produced a little of this and a liitle of that (all oem by the way). However, why pay so much more for a fraction of difference of performance? I am not out to put down this giant as I have had numerous ATI cards. My point is that now others in the know are echoing similar concerns I feel a little justified. Pardon me for sounding sanctimonious...but there were some that were visibly upset about my previous thread even going to the extreme of sending me private messages with profanity in them. Cannot someone post what they feel is truth? You tell me.

 

[pxc]

ibtl

 

[Dillusion]

ATi does have an answer to SLI, as for now its speculation and rumors. but it will come. When? Who knows, but will they? yes, they have to. You're statements are also all speculation aswell, and until you interview an engineer or the sales rep from ATi and have him say 'yes we are stopping production of high end cards' you're arguement has no backbone to it. ATi may be slow, but their not stupid, theyve been here this long and i dont think they are going to give anything up now.

 

[Netrat33]

actually when i go to my bestbuy I see x850xt in there as the high end card. Comusa too.
I see x800xt AIW cards and x800xl cards too. All agp and pci

Funny because I don't see 6800 ultras anywhere retail (6800gts yes). So whatever.


as for SLI, not a mainstream selling point as it is. Sounds like ati is at least even trying to push that envelope too with the ability to use one slow card and one faster (granted if it does happen to work that way)


Maybe you live in the boonies

 

[Apallohadas]

Stop shopping at Aldo's and you'll see more than 9800s.....

 

[Ricko]

I do appreciate the intelligent responses. I reccomend that you look at some of the techno critics and what they are saying...The Inquirer, The tech report, etc. I am not saying that ATI is through, what I am saying is that they are switching gears in the high end card dept. Yes, they will always have their OEM's. That my friend is where they are really headed. Evidently, according to insider analysis, they are struggling to put out anything that can match Nvidias gravitaus. Insiders believe that ATI is putting their research and development into other areas. Speculation...so. Since when can we not speculate as to what we have seen and ARE seeing? We do it all the time...evidently it's o.k. in other areas of our lives. Sorry for the sarcasm....but it is so true.

 

[Netrat33]

I do appreciate the intelligent responses. I reccomend that you look at some of the techno critics and what they are saying...The Inquirer, The tech report, etc. I am not saying that ATI is through, what I am saying is that they are switching gears in the high end card dept. Yes, they will always have their OEM's. That my friend is where they are really headed. Evidently, according to insider analysis, they are struggling to put out anything that can match Nvidias gravitaus. Insiders believe that ATI is putting their research and development into other areas. Speculation...so. Since when can we not speculate as to what we have seen and ARE seeing? We do it all the time...evidently it's o.k. in other areas of our lives. Sorry for the sarcasm....but it is so true.

The Inquirer is much the the National Enquirer. It's not really the holy grail of information

It's more like fun read with so good info here and there. Don't live by that

 

[|0b0]

I can walk into the best buy, fry's or compusa closest to my house right now and pick up either a x800 aiw or a x850 agp or pci-e, so I dunno about these shortages. People on the internet tend to hold things for too long. We still have people complaining about nvidia's FX series and it looks like we'll go through the next year with people saying " but remember than one time, when there were no x800 xt's around" honest, it's one mishap, no one's perfect, shit happens. Ati is nowhere near down nor out. (And this opinion comes from a nvidia owner)

As for an sli solution, they have something coming, it's taking them a bit longer, but you have to realize they've never messed with a tech like this before. It was alot easier for nvidia to produce, seeing as they bought up voodoo, the originator of sli and still have a good 35% of those workers now working for them (nvidia).

 

[fallguy]

Sorry Ricko, you're still clueless.

 

[texuspete00]

This is retarded. We've all heard of AMR and R520... if ATi can make more R520's than Dell can eat up they will be for sale. They don't go and spend all that R&D and up and decide not to sell it to us. Manufacturing problems maybe, but getting out of the high-end market... rediculous. You can buy X800XT's and stuff no problem and it's mighty fast. So they are focused on the best performance with one card for right now, let's start threads on it and sequels too. None of this makes sense. I dont even know where to go. Hard to disprove rampant and random speculation, even if it has no hold on reality.

 

[ncantador]

Several months ago I posted a thread regarding ATIs diminishing status as a high end consumer cards producer.

ATI status as a high-end card producer IS diminishing (not gone as they still sell X800pros, XTs, XLs themselves which if you tell me are not high end solutions, means that someone needs to slap you into conciousness), Nvidia on the other hand has NEVER held any status as a card producer, they make reference designs and have always left manufacturing/retailing to their partners. So whats the point? That now ATI has decided to do the same thing with their flagship GPUs? Who cares?

 

[doublejbass]

according to insider analysis, they are struggling to put out anything that can match Nvidias gravitaus. Insiders believe that ATI is putting their research and development into other areas. Speculation...so. Since when can we not speculate as to what we have seen and ARE seeing?

My brain hurts trying to read this paragraph. Gravitaus.....judging by your writing skill, I could give you the correct spelling and you still would have no idea what that word means, since the usage is totally sophistic.

Anyway, you can speculate, in your case, idle, unfounded speculation, most likely. You can't speculate as to what you are seeing, THAT is called observation and analysis.

And, for the last time (I wish), SLI is in no way a mainstream option of any significance. It's a rich kid's toy that exemplifies financial extravagance. It is a brilliant strategy as it relates to business, as it gets the most profitable market (that is, the losers who will drop >$500 on a video card) and squeezes yet more profit by forcing them to buy two of the highest end card in their journey toward compensating for all their other shortcomings.

 

[texuspete00]

^^ oh dont you go and be a toolbox too. What if I have crap loads of money and really like comps, and $500 is nothing, am I a loser then? The vast majority of SLI owners aren't necessarily a part of any forum and go unnoticed... despite the fact you think they are trying to show you up. God, I should really stop coming here. Mostly this section.

If having lots of disposable income makes you a loser... sign me up.

 

[Spank]

the steam survey was reseted the 5th of april

NVidia GeForce 6800 GT 			21,063
ATI Radeon X800 PRO 			11,491 
ATI Radeon X800 XT 			6,477 
ATI Radeon X800 XT Platinum Edition 	4,790
NVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 		3,985

Looks like ati managed to get a lot of those $500 cards out to consumers

 

[Dazz]

ATi has had Multirendering technology (Radeon 9800 Workstation cards) before nVidia brought it out, the diffence is, ATi's MRT is for the work station and nVidia has just brought it out for Home and workstation use.

 

[pxc]

Looks like ati managed to get a lot of those $500 cards out to consumers

Or maybe many people are flashing their x800 Pros to x800XT PEs like they do here.

It's much less common to flash 6600GTs to 6800 Ultras because it unlocks nothing and gives worse memory timings, but a few people still do it.

 

[Tsumari]

Nobody is rushing blindly for some kind of answer to SLI. SLI isn't very important, especially the current method which requires a profile for each game.

Will SLI be really important in a year or two? Who knows, it depends on how the tech works out. But it's not as if the public is raving scared of being left behind without their two cards.

Tsumari

 

[geekcomputing]

Nobody is rushing blindly for some kind of answer to SLI. SLI isn't very important, especially the current method which requires a profile for each game."


er.... ATI is! LOL.

sli isnt very important ... eh!

how so.... ?? just look at

1. the power it provides.
2. the profits it provides to nvidia.
3. the market share it provides to nvidia at teh expense of ati.
4. and most importantly the mindshare it provides.

nvidia has won this generation. all ati can hope to do is play catch up.

 

[Hate_Bot]

God, this is another pointles Nvidia fan boy thread.

THEY ARE BOTH GOOD COMPANYS. NEITHER IS PLAYING CATCH UP.

they both have good cards. I dont know where you guys get all this "Oh ATI Is falling behind" BS.

BTW, ati has had AMR for a number of years now (fo professional things, like the army) so they do have the tech.

And I love it, how when the 6 series came out, it was a good lineup, and everyon was all "Oh, Nvidia pwns ATI" etc.. but when the R520 is announced (and it sounds like one hell of a card) everyone is "OMG ATI Is playing catchup hurr". How come no one said anything about Nvidia playing catch up after the abysmall FX line?

 

[Hate_Bot]

Nobody is rushing blindly for some kind of answer to SLI. SLI isn't very important, especially the current method which requires a profile for each game."


er.... ATI is! LOL.

sli isnt very important ... eh!

how so.... ?? just look at

1. the power it provides.
2. the profits it provides to nvidia.
3. the market share it provides to nvidia at teh expense of ati.
4. and most importantly the mindshare it provides.

nvidia has won this generation. all ati can hope to do is play catch up.

ATI Isnt rushing anything, they have had multi rendering for years for professional apps.

Also, despite what you may think, SLI isnt that populkar, the only real SLI solutions are 6800GTs or Ultras, and few people are willing to shell out the big bucks required for it.

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

ATI Isnt rushing anything, they have had multi rendering for years for professional apps.

Also, despite what you may think, SLI isnt that populkar, the only real SLI solutions are 6800GTs or Ultras, and few people are willing to shell out the big bucks required for it.

If SLI isn't that important then why is ati making somthing called amr???

i guess it's not really all that important at all....

 

[Hate_Bot]

If SLI isn't that important then why is ati making somthing called amr???

i guess it's not really all that important at all....

Because theres a market for it?

and AMR will also not be as popular.

The point of my post was that everyone sais "ATI Is rushing AMR" and they forget that ATI Has had multi rendering for years.

and they guy said that "ATI Is getting killed by SLI" etc, which is simply not true, AMR wont kill SLI, and vice versa, I frankly couldnt care less whether AMR comes or not. All I care about is the newCard, the R520, which looks like its shaping up to be a hell of a card, because of the fact that Nvidia said they wouldnt be making a new chip, just staying with SLI for 6 months, it could mean bad news.

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

Because theres a market for it?

and AMR will also not be as popular.

The point of my post was that everyone sais "ATI Is rushing AMR" and they forget that ATI Has had multi rendering for years.

and they guy said that "ATI Is getting killed by SLI" etc, which is simply not true, AMR wont kill SLI, and vice versa, I frankly couldnt care less whether AMR comes or not. All I care about is the newCard, the R520, which looks like its shaping up to be a hell of a card, because of the fact that Nvidia said they wouldnt be making a new chip, just staying with SLI for 6 months, it could mean bad news.

Really, So where is this fact that nVidia said they arn't making any new cards??

And can you tell me where your getting all this info? Do you have proof or is all this speculation? How do you know ati isn't getting hurt from SLI setup's? How do you know amr won't be a SLI killer or the other way around? how do you know the r520 is going to be a great card? DO you have a time machine or somthing? shit if you do plz share with the rest of us....

 

[Hate_Bot]

Really, So where is this fact that nVidia said they arn't making any new cards??

And can you tell me where your getting all this info? Do you have proof or is all this speculation? How do you know ati isn't getting hurt from SLI setup's? How do you know amr won't be a SLI killer or the other way around? how do you know the r520 is going to be a great card? DO you have a time machine or somthing? shit if you do plz share with the rest of us....or stop asuming somthing that you have idea or proof about.

And wheres your proof that ATI is getting hurt from SLI? And wheres your proof that the R520 WONT be a good card? With the specs that we've been getting, it seems like it would be one hell of a kickass card.

Circular logic man... circular logic...

 

[[RIP]Zeus]

And wheres your proof that ATI is getting hurt from SLI? And wheres your proof that the R520 WONT be a good card? With the specs that we've been getting, it seems like it would be one hell of a kickass card.

Circular logic man... circular logic...

Wow you have spec's...a fucking paper launch...wow just wow...you know Matrox had a kick ass spec to for there Paraheila...guess what happened to that card...

My proof...i don't have proof. All i am going by is rumors and speculation. But you seem to have this FACT that nVidia is not making a new card. And that the r520 is going to BE A GREAT CARD....we have no idea what SLI or AMR is going to do in the next year or so. (if ati comes out with amr) You and everyone else have no idea how the r520 will do...for all you know the r520 will be the biggest shit can since the paraheila...stop trying to prove somthing that doesn't even exsist. your only proof is what you believe MIGHT happen and that you only hope for the best...and stop trying to prove to other people that SLI or AMR is shit...other people other than you. Might want it or like it.

 

[Erasmus354]

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=archives&date=2005-02-05

(yea yea it says console but the same applies here)

Stop whining about which company is better, or that one company is falling out of the high end card business or whatnot. Ricko it might have been a much better idea for you to simply throw out an idea that perhaps ATi is concentrating more on the OEM business and is less interesting in courting the high end users. However instead you create this thread gloating, that ATi is not focusing more on OEMs but that they simply cant keep up with Nvidia, which is frankly a crock of sh*t and does nothing but start a flame war.

Is the Nvidia 6800 series a good card, yes!

Is the ATi X800 series a good card, yes!

Who won this round? Probably Nvidia, not because their high end card was better than ATi's (The X800XT PE generally beats the 6800Ultra) but because they had the significantly better second tier card. The 6800GT was a great buy and is a stellar card. ATi hurt themselves by making their second tier card a 12 pipe card. They have since corrected their mistake with the X800XL, but yes they now have to play catchup in what I consider the "mainstream enthusiast" category. Their ultra high end cards have done just as well as Nvidias. And ATi's technology is no worse than Nvidias, they just made a mistake in their product strategy, which they have now corrected.

As for future speculation, ATi has announced very spectacular specs for R520, and the backwards compatibility of its multi GPU solution seems very interesting. That being said it is unfair to compare ATi to Matrox, ATi has been putting out top notch cards for quite sometime now, and I would expect high quality parts from them until they make a flop (If they do flop it would be an FX-esque flop and not a Parhelia flop IMO).

So please, lets all stop the fan boy bickering and be content that these two graphics giants are both putting out great cards, and pushing each other to produce both better hardware, and better software (in the case of SLi / AMR). The graphics future looks bright, lets not have all these dull minds come in here and ruin it for the rest of us.

 

[Hate_Bot]

words.

People here dont seem to understand this, that they are both good cards. Neither company is worse or better.

also, for some reason, Nvidia fan-boys start these threads, whenever someone sais something good about ATI. they are automatically labeled a fan-boy, and whoever agrees with them are also. For some reason, on these boards offering an opinion that differs from the norm, labels you as a fan-boy

 

[spydermonkey]

Any time I go to best buy, etc. the ONLY high-end solution I see is STILL the 9800!

Psssht. Whenever i go to my Best Buy, they usually have 3-5 X800xt pe's. too bad i don't have any money and live in Bakersfield where noone has interests in anything other than farming...

 

[Ricko]

I do take all of the rebukes from all of you. What some of you sincere guys don't seem to understand is that NOBODY BELIEVES ATI ANYMORE! They have consistently put out supposed spec. sheets on supposed projects to come...and doesn't deliver. There are a ton of guys out there who have caught on to this. Alot of guys who monitor such things have indicated that perhaps in reality what ATI claims on paper will never be produced into reality. Hmmmm....sounds familiar. Whenever Nvidia starts moving ahead....here come all these supposed R&D breakthroughs from the other side. Erasmus was right when he said Nvidia won this round. In case no one has been paying attention...they are about to win the next one too. SLI..is embryonic and at best reserved for the few however, it is concrete and "out there". Where's ATI on all this 520 stuff? On paper thats where!

 

[Hate_Bot]

I do take all of the rebukes from all of you. What some of you sincere guys don't seem to understand is that NOBODY BELIEVES ATI ANYMORE! They have consistently put out supposed spec. sheets on supposed projects to come...and doesn't deliver. There are a ton of guys out there who have caught on to this. Alot of guys who monitor such things have indicated that perhaps in reality what ATI claims on paper will never be produced into reality. Hmmmm....sounds familiar. Whenever Nvidia starts moving ahead....here come all these supposed R&D breakthroughs from the other side. Erasmus was right when he said Nvidia won this round. In case no one has been paying attention...they are about to win the next one too. SLI..is embryonic and at best reserved for the few however, it is concrete and "out there". Where's ATI on all this 520 stuff? On paper thats where!

Um what are you talking about? They said the X80s will be twice as fast as the 9800s, and they were right.

I have never been let down or tricked by ATI...

... it must of hurt... that fact... the way you pulled it out of your ass like that...

 

[Slade]

I just want to vent this out because self proclaimed "enthusiasts" (including myself at time) make me wonder why the hell do we speak so passionately about companies...

ATI's multi gpu card was the MAXX. Those who were playing around wtih voodoo sli rigs may recall this... memories...

That didin't quite work right...

ATI purchased the tech behind the FireGL in order to compete with the Quadro (a homegrown nVidia product).

AMR or whatever its called is being developed, although rather secretly. I have a few friends in ATI, but they work lower in the chain but know its in the works. I teach programming to an ATI engineer's son (he works in the section responsible for TV chips etc) but he doesn't tell me much about what's up there.

As it stands, ATI is far from directionless. They are experiencing problems with yields, that much is for certain. It took them this long from paper launch to reasonable supply(though depending on your area reasonable supply may = 1 card or none...)

ATI's an nVidia's primary concern has and ALWAYS WILL BE OEM. Don't delude yourself for a second that the enthusiast/gamer/joe average consumer is high on their priority list. That is the responsibility of the OEM to satisfy, not ATI, nor nVidia.

That's what I learned working for nVidia, like or not, its a fact.

Side note, hate_bot, your canadian, but you're also young... I've seen BOTH companies let the general public down in so many ways its not funny. You live in your patriotic bubble that ATI can do no wrong...

 

[Hate_Bot]

Side note, hate_bot, your canadian, but you're also young... I've seen BOTH companies let the general public down in so many ways its not funny. You live in your patriotic bubble that ATI can do no wrong...

Well, Im just saying they have never let me down, so I doubt they will, it's a possibility.

Also, Ive had this opinion for a while I only recently discovered ATI WAS Canadian, I always thought both Nvidia and ATI were japanese companies.

ALso, Im russian by birth, I just live in canada

 

[Slade]

One last tidbit, I want to say before this gets ugly, guys, go with what you like and what you can afford, its best for you, show others your experience with the parts and don't bash...

I went through on some forums the 3dfx vs nvidia fight nights and it just got way out of hand...

to be [H] is to be true to whatever the fastest and the best is, no matter the company... loyalty only to the power... heh

 

[Erasmus354]

Whenever Nvidia starts moving ahead....here come all these supposed R&D breakthroughs from the other side.

.::and some other random junk

You aren't doing yourself any good Ricko. Aside from the recent 6800 series of cards, the last real technology breakthrough Nvidia made was the GeForce2 or GeForce4 series depending how you look at it. ATi had the R300 (9700pro) which has been one of the best core designs in recent history. ATi has since then built upon that core. They haven't had any real breakthoughs since then simply because it wasn't needed. All ATi had to do to keep up with Nvidia was make optimizations to the basic R300 core design.

SLi is not an Nvidia R&D breakthrough, it is a technology purchased from another company which has been modified and tweaked to work with todays cards.

As Slade mentioned, both companies have had let downs, ATi's recent problems have been manufacturing related with yields and such. Nvidia's most recent problems have been bad design/R&D (GeForceFX series).

 

[{NG}Fidel]

I am going to post something showing which companies excel in which areas on certain buses.

AGP
Low End Nvidia. 6200/6600
Mid Range ATi. X800XL
High End Ati. X800XTPE/X850XTPE

PCIe
Low End Nvidia. 6200/6600
Mid Range ATi X800XL
High End Nvidia.6800U Sli

In my opinion all of the cards listed are extremely available for purchase.
In my opinion they are all great cards that do what they are designed for.
Please stop the nonsense.

 

[comikehill2002]

Funny I was in Best Buy yesterday and saw every bit of nvidia flavor you could think of, Most if not all BFG.

actually when i go to my bestbuy I see x850xt in there as the high end card. Comusa too.
I see x800xt AIW cards and x800xl cards too. All agp and pci

Funny because I don't see 6800 ultras anywhere retail (6800gts yes). So whatever.


as for SLI, not a mainstream selling point as it is. Sounds like ati is at least even trying to push that envelope too with the ability to use one slow card and one faster (granted if it does happen to work that way)


Maybe you live in the boonies

 

[Netrat33]

I do take all of the rebukes from all of you. What some of you sincere guys don't seem to understand is that NOBODY BELIEVES ATI ANYMORE! They have consistently put out supposed spec. sheets on supposed projects to come...and doesn't deliver. There are a ton of guys out there who have caught on to this. Alot of guys who monitor such things have indicated that perhaps in reality what ATI claims on paper will never be produced into reality. Hmmmm....sounds familiar. Whenever Nvidia starts moving ahead....here come all these supposed R&D breakthroughs from the other side. Erasmus was right when he said Nvidia won this round. In case no one has been paying attention...they are about to win the next one too. SLI..is embryonic and at best reserved for the few however, it is concrete and "out there". Where's ATI on all this 520 stuff? On paper thats where!

You remind me of one of those televangelists who basically say a lot about nothing other than everyone is going to hell. Whatever. You're just looking around to pick fights with weak arguements to back you up.

 

[Netrat33]

Funny I was in Best Buy yesterday and saw every bit of nvidia flavor you could think of, Most if not all BFG.

Where they ultras? didn't think so. that's what I said

 

[Spank]

I do take all of the rebukes from all of you. What some of you sincere guys don't seem to understand is that NOBODY BELIEVES ATI ANYMORE! *snip*

no point in writing anything more, he wont answer anyone anyway, he will just write some more bs.

 

[Hate_Bot]

He has officially replaed Redifined as my "Most blind * fan-boy ever"

(Ricko I mean)

some people are just retarded...