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Discussion in 'nVidia Flavor' started by yevaud, Dec 8, 2006.
I have contacted asus. No reply yet though. I'm stuck on the flashing front since I can't even boot.
I don't think you have anything to worry about, as per my previous post in this thread #76, I'm using the GA-P35-DS3R with the EVGA SC 8800 GT and it's working great. I'd just kick-up the default fan-speed using Rivatuner 2.06.
Dagnabbit, unless there's a better fix for this, my big transition plan is toast.
I went with the Asrock board to move slowly over to Core2/DDR2/PCI-E, then finish off with a better motherboard for decent overclocking. The plan was to keep each step to around $200 or less, and once DDR2 prices dropped I figured I was ahead of the game. I got the Asrock and an E4300 for $186 shipped, step 1 accomplished. Memory is next.
One big missing piece of the puzzle was the right affordable PCI-E card. It was becoming apparent that if I didn't get a card with more memory than the GTS 320, I'd regret it, and 640's are just so high-priced. The more info that came out about the GT, the more it seemed like my dream solution.
If I have to combine the last two steps (GPU and final Motherboard) that will push the cost close to $400, which blows the whole "small bites" strategy out of the water. Oh, well, maybe the price of the GTS 640 will tank when the new GTS comes out. But I want 65nm and Purevideo HD2 also!
I guess I could try to hold over with an 8600GT or some such, but I doubt it would offer a huge increase over my 6800GT based on what I've seen. Most tests and opinions put the 6800GT close to the 7600GT, which in turn is close to the 8600GT, so by extension my gains would be small. Certainly I wouldn't get much love from Oblivion/NWN2/Crysis/HL2EP2/Alan Wake etc etc.
I have the 775Dual VSTA and Inno3D 8800GT and confirm I also cant get i to boot at all.
I dont think its a power issue - I have 550W PSU with 30A on 12V+.
My understanding is that the GEN2 (PCI Express 1.1-2.0) 8800GT is not compatible with the 775Dual VSTA at the moment.
I think there may be hope as the ASRock technicians appear to have got an ASUS 8800GT working with the mobo by flashing the BIOS to use GEN1 (PCI Express 1.0??).
Does anyone know how to apply that kind of modification to the BIOS? I have played about with reading my Inno3D BIOS but cant find anything about that. I guess our best bet is aquiring the ASRock guys GEN1 BIOS and trying it on our cards?
Either that, or a new mobo..
Hey guys, my card still hasn't arrived yet but it shows that it's out for delivery.
As for the BIOS flashing, you can use a program called NVFlash to flash the card and a program called Nibitor to extract your GPU's BIOS.
I was thinking about doing this.
(1) When the 8800GT KO arrives, try it first on the 775Dual-VSTA. If it doesn't POST, install the card on my backup mobo I bought yesterday--Gigabyte P35C-DS3R--and use Nibitor to extract the BIOS.
(2) Send the BIOS to ASRock and ask them to set it to GEN1 mode or ask the members of the Xtreme forum to do it for me. The guys there are even more hardcore than the HardOCP guys and lots of them really know their stuff.
(3) With the modified BIOS, flash it onto my card on the Gigabyte board then transfer the card to the 775Dual-VSTA.
(4) Enjoy gaming nirvana on the 775Dual-VSTA!!
It would be ideal, of course, if I didn't have to do all these steps and ASRock just released a BIOS update that would make the 8800GT compatible.
Anyways, once I get the eVGA card, I'll post my results.
I wondered if all this would kick me over to the RV670, but the specs leaked on Diamond's early product pages say it's PCI-E 2.0, so it would probably have the same problem.
Here's a quick update for you ASRock guys.
I just received my card and I'm gonna start the installation soon.
But before I even opened up the box, I called eVGA tech support and told them my situation and their friendly tech said they will look into the BIOS modification and send me the modified "GEN1" 8800GT KO BIOS by next Monday.
Ok, here I go to install the 8800GT KO~!!
It took me a while since I had to uninstall the watercooling on my 1900XT first but here is the result!!
The eVGA 8800GT KO DID NOT WORK!!
Once I hit the Power Button on my PC, all the fans turned on, including the 8800GT's, but my monitor's LED indicator light remained orange (which means it's not being activated by the GPU).
BTW, the fan noise is noisy but not as noisy as my 1900XT 512MB's stock cooler. Once it's finalized which mobo I'm gonna use, depending on ASRock or eVGA's tech support results, I'm definitely gonna take off the stock cooler and mount my waterblock on it.
The eVGA tech told me that with a waterblock on the core, KO can hit speeds as high as 780MHz!! He also recommended that I increase the shader clock for the biggest jump in FPS for Crysis.
Anyways, I'm go now and install the card on the Gigabyte board.
I have a Asrock Dual Vista also add just wanted to be shure of somthing.
Will this motherboard for shure work with the 8800GTS(320meg) and the GTS(640meg) ?
I see on the Asrock website that they only list MSI video cards will it work with other brands as well?
As expected, the eVGA 8800GT KO works just fine on the Gigabyte P35C-DS3R mobo.
I have 30 days to return the mobo so I'm gonna wait 30 days for either ASRock or eVGA to provide a solution. If they don't, then I'm gonna keep the mobo.
Glad it worked out for you like I said it would. I would also keep the Gigabyte board if I were you. We both have the same CPU and motherboard and I was able to easily overclock my E6600 to 3.2 Ghz. using just the lousy Intel stock cooler. Replaced the stock cooler with the Arctic Freezer 7 Pro and now I'm up to 3.4 Ghz. without even touching the voltages. The GA-P35-DS3R really is a great board and it will also be compatible with Intel's new 45nm processors if you ever want to upgrade.
Yea, the board is cool. I've had that board bookmarked for months and I finally got it. I like the fact that it supports future processors + DDR3 memory.
But, I'd still like to use the 8800GT on the ASRock 775Dual-VSTA. I'm hoping the eVGA tech will come through for me. Also, some guy at XtremeForums said that I might be able to modify the BIOS myself using Nibitor. It's worth checking out. Once I install Vista again on the DS3R, I'm gonna see what I can find.
ASUS have replied and apparently know nothing about a GEN1 8800GT BIOS.
Still nothing from Inno3D. Thats brilliant that eVGA may send you a GEN1 BIOS. Could you post it here when you have it? If I have nothing I may try that on my Inno3D card in desperation.
I have tried Nibitor with my BIOS but can see no reference to PCIe or GEN2. The BIOS guys at MVKtech didnt seem to know either.
**GA-P35 pre-emptively added to basket..
Yeah, I need to know this too as I am planning to get a 8800GT, but if it doesn't work with the Dual-VSTA that would cancel the upgrade for me till the Eaglelake P45 chipset arrives as if I have waited this long, might as well wait for the next generation mainstream PCI-Express 2.0 mobos.
Either that or just get the P5K-E Wifi and be done with it, 8 Phase Power with Copper Cooling and Wireless very nice.
Sure, no problem.
Same here. I checked every option in Nibitor but didn't find anything. I wonder if the author of Nibitor knows anything about GEN2 and GEN1.
Yevaud, you just saved my butt with this info. Here I am reading up on the situation with the 8800gt and hoping I can ditch my 6800GT AGP, then today my 6800 starts artifacting itself to death.
I am now rocking an eVGA 8400GS--cheapest newer nVidia card I could find locally and I didn't have time to wait for online purchase and delivery. Without your post about backing off OC's, I might never have figured out why the video driver kept locking up after installing the new card.
I backed my FSB off from 290 to 250 and all is well--except for performance, of course. As if the card wasn't a bad enough hit, to go from 2.62GHz on my E4300 down to 2.2X just adds insult to injury.
Well, when the market settles down (and if Asrock/eVGA get something worked out with the 8800GT on this board) I guess I can now explore the wonders of step-up!
Here is a quick update.
I just heard back from the eVGA tech and he said he sent the request to an overseas engineering team that has the latest software to modify the BIOS. He said that once he receives back the modified BIOS, he'll send it to me ASAP.
I'll update this thread again after I have received and tried the flash procedure on the 8800GT.
I got the ASUS GEN1 BIOS from the ASRock techs and risked it on my Inno3D card.
** My 8800GT now works with my 775Dual VSTA
Find the BIOS file and flash utility here:
I put the card in another motherboard, booted from my USB boot drive created using:
Put the BIOS file and flash utility on the USB root drive and run:
nvflash as01gen1.rom -4 -5 -6
And now I'm hitting 8500 on 3dMark06 and running Bioshock at 1680x1050 with ease (and saved the £50 that would have gone a new mobo).
I think this is definately the best option for the moment if your 8800GT is not booting, but I dont gaurentee this will work..
Hey, congratulations!! This is definitely good news!! I opened up two instances of Nibitor and analyzed the BIOS file you sent me to my eVGA 8800GT KO's BIOS and I only found differences in "Manufacturer ID" and the clock speeds.
I'm gonna try the flash later too. But first, I'm gonna see how far I can push my E6600. I told myself that if I can get an overclock from 2.4GHz to 3.4Ghz, then I'm just gonna keep the new Gigabyte mobo.
BTW, your score of 8500 seems kind of low for a 8800GT. On my ASRock mobo with an ATI 1900XT 512MB PCIE, I got 6040 3DMarks. What is your system spec?
Terrific, thats great news for Asrock owners. I'll put up the Bat Signal on a few forums I frequent where I mentioned what was going on here.
Very nice, though this does mean, I have to find someone with a USB Drive as well as an available computer to flash the card I need to purchase since I don't have a second system.
Alright, guys, here's my update.
I flashed my eVGA 8800GT KO with the modified Asus 8800GT BIOS above and the card worked fine in both the Gigabyte P35C-DS3R and the ASRock 775Dual-VSTA!!!!
I'm really, really amazed at the VIA PT880Pro chipset. That thing is ANCIENT but it's still alive and kicking.
Thanks androo87 for the BIOS, you ARE THE MAN~~!!!! I haven't this excited since I flashed my ATI 9800NP into a 9800Pro and overclocked like crazy.
I was originally going to wait for eVGA tech support to get back to me with their modified BIOS but I just had to take a risk and try this (I know, I can be impulsive). Good thing everything worked out okay.
My next step is to compare some benchmarks between the two boards.
Here're my benchmark scores when I ran the eVGA 8800GT KO on the Gigabyte board with an overclock on my CPU (E6600, 2.4GHz --> 3.2GHz)
Once again, the above scores were achieved with the 8800GT KO on the Gigabyte P35C-DS3R mobo.
I'm now going to run the same benchmarks on the ASRock 775Dual-VSTA and see how much performance I will lose due to the PCIE x4 limitation on the VSTA.
Hey guys, I have a dilemma and need your opinions. Now that the 8800GT works on the ASRock board, I'm thinking about returning the DS3R. But, I'm hesitating b/c the Gigabyte board overclocks really well.
*Pro's of staying with the ASRock mobo:
(1) Save money by not having to spend money on a new mobo now that the 8800GT works.
(2) Enjoy the power of Core 2 Duo, DDR2, and 8800GT until Intel's next generation CPU and chipset comes out. Good transitional board. And once again, I save money. =)
*Con's of staying with the ASRock mobo:
(1) Poor overclock. I can only hit 2.66GHz (11% overclock) compared to DS3R's 33% overclock (2.4GHz --> 3.2GHz).
(2) Performance hit due to the limitation of the PCIE x4 slot.
Anyways, I'm gonna go back and run some benchies on the ASRock.
let this be a lesson to future system builders... pay a little bit more for quality parts and don't go for the rock bottom stuff just to save $40. In the long run, it costs you more.
Keep the Gigbabyte as I suggested before. It's really a great board. Unless of course you need the money to feed your children or yourself.
I would advice staying with the AsRock for now and not upgrading till we have some P45 Eaglelake motherboards in Q2 2008, so that way you will be able to take full advantage of PCI-Ex 2.0
Good point Coldpower. Other than overclocking I dont see much benefit.
Even the Crysis demo plays smoooth for me atm at 1680x1050 and 2xAA. Thats what I need a GPU for!
Saying that, my 8500 3dMark06 is on the low side for this card (two thirds of the way down 3dMark results of people with similair CPU and 8800GT). If Optimummind's benchs show GEN1 compatibility mode and the PCIe x4 slot are *really* crippling this card a lot I may be a little more tempted to grab a shiny mobo sooner.
Hey honestjohn, what BIOS settings did you use to hit 3.4GHz? I tried many BIOS combinations yesterday but I just couldn't hit 3.4GHz (378 x 9). I tried +0.3 V on the FSB, NB, and even took the voltage on the CPU up to 1.6 V. The DS3R just keeps booting itself but it resets the BIOS automatically.
I had also set manual DDR2 timings and set the DRAM ratio to 2.0 so my memory won't exceed its rated 800MHz.
The temperature isn't the issue for sure since I have a waterblock on the CPU.
LOL, I don't have any children to feed and my two cats don't eat too much anyways.
I'm still going back and forth about returning the DS3R. I spent $200 for it at Fry's because I also bought their no-fuss 2-year mobo warranty which added $30 to the order. I got it at Fry's because when I bought it, the price was exactly the same as Newegg's online price but I didn't have to pay for shipping and Fry's is 10 mins from my house.
I still haven't run the benchmarks on the ASRock mobo yet but I'll do it later today after I get home after school. It's difficult to find time as my girlfriend is hassling me about spending too much time on the PC. I told her I'd make it up for her by taking her an outlet this weekend, which is 60 miles away!
Hey, I got good news. This morning, I received the official eVGA 8800GT KO BIOS with modification for the GEN1 status. I asked the eVGA tech and he said that I WOULD NOT void my warranty by flashing my card. Nice~~!!
I'll post later with the benchmark comparisons.
Hey Optimummind, if I get this straight you benched the gigabyte/8800gt combo with your processor at 3.2? If the ASRock can't achieve 3.2 then your results won't be comparable. Could you rerun those benches on the gigabyte mobo with your processor clocked at what you would run it on the asrock mobo? It's great that you're doing this, I appreciate but you know, we gotta be [H]ard, no?
Hey Optimimum, I think I mentioned before that I could only hit 3.2Ghz with the stock cooler running somewhat warm. The only way I was able to push it higher was get a better cooler. I picked up the Arctic Cooler Freezer 7 Pro. True there are better coolers, but this one does a very good job, it's inexpensive, and you don't need to remove the motherboard to install it. It keeps my CPU reasonably cool and I can run Orthos/Small FFT all night long and the E6600 never gets above 54c. Here are the BIOS Settings I'm using .....
9 x 378
Robust Graphics Adapter: Auto
Performance Enhance: Standard
High Speed DRAM: Option 1
DRAM Timings: Auto
System Memory Multiplier: 2.4 / 907 Mhz.
Great stuff you guys are doing with the 8800GT and the Asrocks. Good luck with the BIOS.
Did you have to increase the voltages on the CPU, FSB, or northbridge?
Yes, will do tonight.
Not at all. All on defaults. If I wanted to screw around with voltages I could probably push it higher, but I'm satisfied.
Thx. Then it's probably a limitation of my sample of E6600.
I still haven't run the benchmarks yet on the ASRock mobo cuz I'm in the process of creating a backup image right now as I type this. I will run them in the next 15-20 minutes and post the results.
Ok, I've finally finished running all the benches. One set of benchmarks is weird and needs to be re-tested. Well, it should be retested but I'm not going to retest them because I'm gonna return the Gigabyte motherboard. Well, read below and you'll see what I mean by the weird set of benchmarks.
*Gigabyte P35C-DS3R, P35+ICH9R
*Intel E6600, 2.4GHz@3.2GHz
*2x1GB G.Skill DDR2-800
*eVGA 8800GT KO (stock speeds)
3DMark01SE: 41,889 3DMarks
3DMark03: 38,221 3DMarks
3DMark05: 16,568 3DMarks
*ASRock 775Dual-VSTA, VIA PT880
*Intel E6600, 2.4GHz@2.66GHz
*2x1GB G.Skill DDR2-800
*eVGA 8800GT KO (stock speeds)
3DMark01SE: 33,101 3DMarks (-26.6%)
3DMark03: 34,393 3DMarks (-11.1%)
3DMark05: 14,527 3DMarks (-14.0%)
3DMark06: 9,284 3DMarks (-9.90%)
*Gigabyte P35C-DS3R, P35+ICH9R
*Intel E6600, 2.4GHz@2.66GHz
*2x1GB G.Skill DDR2-800
*eVGA 8800GT KO (stock speeds)
3DMark01SE: 21,715 3DMarks
3DMark03: 30,441 3DMarks
3DMark05: 8,774 3DMarks
3DMark06: 5,646 3DMarks
(1) The eVGA 8800GT KO on the Gigabyte DS3R with the CPU at 3.2GHz is, on average, 15.4% faster, than the eVGA 8800GT KO on the ASRock 775Dual-VSTA with the CPU at 2.66GHz. The largest performance difference was in 3DMark01SE which is known to scale well with increasing CPU speed.
(2) Something seriously went wrong with the benchmarks in System #3. Those scores are too low to be correct as my 1900XT 512MB beats the 8800GT KO. I double-checked all the BIOS settings, did a clean install of ForceWare 168.02 (uninstall from Control Panel, reboot into Safe Mode, run Driver Sweeper, run Registry clean, reboot into normal Desktop, and reinstall the 168.02).
I don't know what went wrong and I'm too tired to care anymore. What I do know is that I can live with a 15.4% performance difference if it means that I get to save $200.00 (mobo price + tax + $30.00 2-year warranty from Fry's).
(3) In games such as Stalker v1.0004, Bioshock, and Crysis Demo, my gaming experience has improved dramatically and I can crank up all the settings (except for Crysis) which my older 1900XT couldn't do. In fact, I haven't noticed any real-world gaming performance differences between the Gigabyte DS3R and the ASRock 775Dual-VSTA in the games I've played.
I'm gonna keep the ASRock 775Dual-VSTA mobo now that the 8800GT KO works and I'm gonna postpone my motherboard upgrade until Intel releases their on-die memory controller integrated CPU and the new chipset to go along with it.
I'm very happy with the 8800GT and I'm immensely glad it works now on the 775Dual-VSTA.
It's a pity you didnt redo the Gigabyte board test at 2.66 clock, so we could get a more accurate comparison. I find it interesting though the Asrock comes within 10% of the OC'd Gigabyte board (in 3DMark06) while still only running at 4x. That's still a respectable score.
I have a few questions about this fascinating thread:
1. Does this mean asrock motherboard owners will need to flash the bios of the videocard to get the 8800gt to work? Or can this be potentially done by a motherboard bios update in the future?
2. Will asrock be adding the 8800gt to their list of supported cards here?
3. Shouldn't the name of this thread be changed to reflect the fact that the asrock motherboard is COMPATIBLE with the 8800 series since all 8800 gt and gts cards are now verified to work (8800gtx and ultra don't work)?
Not sure about the future BIOS update enabling support for the 8800GT. From the response I got from ASRock tech support, they said it's a limitation of the VIA PT880Pro/UItra chipset. They said the chipset doesn't recognize PCIE v2.0.
As for your other question, yes, you need to either temporarily purchase a new motherboard or use a friend's mobo that supports the true PCIE specification in order to boot the 8800GT and to flash it with the GEN1 BIOS.
I've sent my BIOS's (GEN1 and GEN2 eVGA 8800GT KO) to MAVKE at MVKTEch and he said he'll look over the code and offer the option to switch from GEN2 to GEN1 in future revisions of Nibitor if he can figure it out.
If you or someone you know owns an ASRock hybrid mobo based on the VIA PT880Pro/Ultra chipset, you'll have to contact the manufacturer for the special BIOS. I got mine directly from eVGA tech support. I tried to get one from ASRock America tech support but they didn't send me one.
Yea, I was surprised too at the difference considering the Gigabyte board was running the CPU way higher.
When I finally got around to posting these benches, it was like 3 in the morning and I was too sleepy to troubleshoot the DS3R's weird scores at 2.66GHz.
Although it was fun building and re-building these two systems to benchmark them, I don't think I can do too much of it for long. Imagine what professional reviewers have to go through when they do one of those massive mobo or videocard shootout comparisons.