Asrock 775 Dual VSTA Incompatible with Nvidia 8800 series

Discussion in 'nVidia Flavor' started by yevaud, Dec 8, 2006.

  1. Optimummind

    Optimummind Gawd

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    Yes, I used the Asus 8800GT BIOS. However, since I wanted to run my clock at GT KO's speed, I opened up the Asus BIOS with Nibitor and set the clock speeds to the KO speeds then flashed. I noticed that the Asus BIOS version is a bit older than my eVGA KO's BIOS so I'm gonna re-flash my card with the eVGA-provided BIOS once I reinstall my floppy drive on the 775Dual-VSTA

    -Optimummind
     
  2. Optimummind

    Optimummind Gawd

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    Which BIOS version are you using and which GPU on the PCIE slot is causing the incompatibility? Before the 8800GT, I was using an ATI 1900XT 512MB PCIE card and the 775Dual-VSTA recognized it right away during POST.

    Also, I had to change a few BIOS settings in order to continue CPU overclocking with a PCIE card. When I used to be running the 6800 GT OC, I had to set the PCIE speed to 117MHz for my 2.66GHz overclock. With a PCIE card, I had to change the PCIE speed to 110MHz for the same overclock.

    -Optimummind
     
  3. Commander Suzdal

    Commander Suzdal 2[H]4U

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    I was using ver. 1.7 of the BIOS when the problem started, and an eVGA 8400GS. Then I took it back to the store and swapped it for an eVGA 8600GT (stock clocks, 256MB). No change, so I flashed the BIOS to 2.1. Still no change.

    I am using a 6800 GT OC as well on the AGP side. Before PCI-E, I clocked the FSB to 290 on my E4300, although I had to set my DDR400 to DDR333 to get a stable divider at that bus speed. Now I have the FSB set to 250 with no stability problems. I have never raised the PCI-E speed above 100. I tried setting the BIOS to all defaults, including FSB of course, with both the 1.7 and 2.1 versions. Then at the suggestion of AsRock, I did a full CMOS reset. Still no change.

    Since the symptom happens when Windows starts to load, I wonder if it could be a low-level driver problem of some kind. I suggested that in my follow-up to AsRock, but I haven't heard back from them yet. If I set the default graphics slot to PCI-E and remove the AGP card, the system POSTs fine and lets me see the BIOS screen and other DOS-type screens. It just goes to black (with a live signal, not a no-power type black) when the XP logo normally appears. You can hear the music when it gets to the desktop, but no display.
     
  4. Optimummind

    Optimummind Gawd

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    I suggest you flash the mobo the latest BIOS version--3.00. Then, load up newer ForceWare drivers after cleaning out the old ones. I hear that with an update ForceWare, some nVIDIA GPUs can now enter the Windows Desktop.

    To cleanly remove drivers, I use this procedure:

    (1) From Safe Mode or normal Desktop, uninstall nVIDIA drivers through Control Panel.
    (2) Reboot PC when asked and enter into Safe Mode. From within Safe Mode, run Driver Sweeper from Guru3D.com.
    (3) Run CCleaner in Safe Mode right after running Driver Sweeper.
    (4) Reboot into normal Desktop and run CCleaner one more time then install the latest ForceWare. I follow these steps and I haven't experienced any driver problems so far.

    *If you can' reboot into normal desktop after uninstalling and cleaning from Safe Mode, try to install the FW in Safe Mode. I don't know if this is possible as I've never tried it. From what I read of your problem, it seems to me this is a software issue.

    Also, when doing the above steps, don't overclock anything and select Load Default or Load Optimum settings in the BIOS.

    -Optimummind
     
  5. JS_racer

    JS_racer n00b

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    does the 4CoreDual-VSTA VIA PT880 Ultra suffer the same issue with the GT card??
    was chasing down a 8800 GT just this morning before i found these issues.
     
  6. mephx

    mephx n00b

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    I originally purchased a 8800GTX two months ago, and it has been sitting on my shelf in the box since everything I read said it wouldn't work with my current motherboard(ASROCK 4CORE-VSTA). I was lazy and didn't feel like taking my computer apart since it wasn't going to work anyway.

    After reading through this thread I decided to try it. At first I had problems, but once I discovered it didn't like PCI-E Async(As stated previously in this thread), I overclocked with PCI-E Sync to the same 2.62(291 bus with E4300). The lockups went away, and it made it into windows with the latest nvidia drivers.

    I've been playing games fine with it all day today, so I think we can now say the 8800GTX or Ultra should work with this board. I'm using an MSI NX8800GTX.

    Now, I feel stupid for not trying earlier and letting a $500 video card sit unopened.
     
  7. Commander Suzdal

    Commander Suzdal 2[H]4U

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    For the 4CoreDual, 2.10 is the same as the 3.00 for the 775Dual--they were released on the same date and have the same fix listed.

    I'm on Forceware 163.75, as that was what the nV site recommended for the 6800GT. It was installed with a procedure much like yours above, except I didn't run CabCleaner. Is that not new enough to have the compatibility fixes for the PCI-E 4X slot?

    I'm running PCI-E async. I wonder if I should try sync?

    Thanks for all the input so far.
     
  8. Optimummind

    Optimummind Gawd

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    Whoops, forgot you're on the 4Core. :p

    CCleaner is actually Crap Cleaner. It's an excellent program that removes crap and orphaned registry entries.
     
  9. Commander Suzdal

    Commander Suzdal 2[H]4U

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    Ah! There is an option within DriverCleaner called CabCLeaner--hence my confusion. I'm using the old freeware DriverCleaner 3.3. Are you using a newer or the Pro version? Could be mine isn't new enough to have the right definition files to clean out all the old nV files that need to be cleaned. Of course, Crap Cleaner might be just what I need! I'm sure my wife would agree...:D

    If nothing else works, when I went back to check which Forceware version first included the fix, I found a post by a guy who had the exact same symptoms as me. He fixed it by doing a clean install. I hate clean installs, but since I've done at least 3 Repair Installs on my current XP setup (including the move from my Abit NF7S to the Asrock board) maybe there's just way too much history on there to avoid doing it the hard way.

    edit: duh, you're using Driver Sweeper not Driver Cleaner. Hold on, I'll try this now and report back.
     
  10. Commander Suzdal

    Commander Suzdal 2[H]4U

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    Update:

    My 8600GT is now working on my AsRock 4CoreDual-Vsta. There was one other thing that happened right before my 8400GS stopped working that I had at #1 or 2 on my list of things to check, but by the time I figured out a way to get back to a visible desktop, so much had happened I forgot about it.

    During the tweaking session that came right before the reboot when the problem occurred, I was playing around in Rivatuner with clocks and fan speeds. I had recently upgraded to 2.06. At one point, it prompted me that I had the wrong version of NVStrap, and would I like to install the right one? Of course I said yes.

    During my Driver Sweeper/CCleaner driver re-install process, I remembered that little factoid. The first go around with those two utils didn't change anything. Then I went back in and uninstalled Rivatuner and ran CCleaner again. It found some stuff in the registry it had missed the previous time, including some NV files, so it might have been that and not Riva. I'm leaning toward Riva though. Now everything is fine!

    Although I'm afraid to reinstall Riva...
     
  11. Darthbart2007

    Darthbart2007 n00b

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    Hey all!

    Just want to report success flashing an ENGA 8800GT vanilla with the ASUS Gen1 BIOS located in this thread. :D

    The 8800GT works wonders in my Asrock 775DUAL-VSTA now. Smooth play at 1680x1050 in CoD4, BF2142, UT3 with everything on max. Very nice.

    UT3 Demo recorded over 100 fps at this resolution on DM-HeatRay in the built-in benchmark program...compared to under 15fps on my 6800GT AGP at the same settings!! :eek:

    Wow.

    Thanks to all who posted here with tips and BIOSes
     
  12. Optimummind

    Optimummind Gawd

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    Here's an update guys. Today, I flashed my eVGA 8800GT KO with the OFFICIAL eVGA-provided 8800GT KO GEN1 BIOS and it works! Best thing about it is that according to the eVGA tech support, this WILL NOT void my warranty!! (yes, I have it in writing. =))

    Here is the link to the eVGA file for those with the eVGA-brand 8800GT's.

    http://www.yourfilehost.com/media.php?cat=other&file=N805P120.rom

    Keep in mind that this BIOS is for the KO version. If you still want to use the official eVGA BIOS but keep your GPU speeds the same (whether it be the stock 8800GT, Superclocked, or SSC version), then you'll first have to edit this BIOS file using Nibitor to change the clockspeeds.

    -Optimummind
     
  13. Nabuchodonosor

    Nabuchodonosor n00b

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    Hi, my MSI 8800GT OC (660/1650/950) is on its way and I'm intending to flash it to GEN1 bios. Unfortunately there are no GEN1 bios for MSI's 8800GT that I know of and I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to flash it to a different brand's bios. I'm afraid mainly from the fact that 8800GT is out for well over 20 days now while the model I'll use is factory overclocked, this may have led to different bios from MSI's part and if I flash to another brand's bios may deem my 8800gt obsolete.




    What's your opinion on this? I'm dying to ditch my old x800GT AGP for the 8800GT (change the 'x' to '8'), but -at the same time- I think I may cause irreparable damage to my brand new GX card.




    Your help will be really appreciated, thanks.
     
  14. A-L-E-X

    A-L-E-X Limp Gawd

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    What is the old agp card youre replacing? The latest nvidia agp card made was the 7950GT AGP which I am using in the 4core dual- sata2 board with the quad core q6600 processor. My own question was... guys, can you use an 8800 series card with this mobo (whether it be 8800gts or 8800gt) and windows xp, or must I "upgrade" to vista, even after I flash the bios (in the case of the 8800gt), in order to use it? (I remember the 8800gts used to freeze upon boot up with windows xp-- I dont know if that issue was resolved.)
     
  15. Nabuchodonosor

    Nabuchodonosor n00b

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    I'm replacing ATI's x800GT with nVidia's 8800GT, my mobo is 775dual-VSTA
     
  16. A-L-E-X

    A-L-E-X Limp Gawd

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    Gotchya. From reading some of the other posts in the thread (ie the one referencing the eVGA 8800GT KO), it seems to me that changing the bios is going to reset the clocks to normal 8800GT clock speed. You might have to use rivatuner or ntune to bring them back up. If it was me, that woud be a minor drawback considering the blazing speed and DX 10 capabilities you get with that card. I get 3DMark06 scores of around 5500 at stock on the AGP 8x port with the 7950GT, and the 8800GT on a slower PCIe 4x port still seems to get scores between 9000 and 10000 on this mobo. Amazing!

    As always, there's a certain risk in flashing bioses Im sure youre aware of. Also, in this special case, I hope you have access to another mobo in order to do it. That's what Im scampering around to do, as any video card upgrade from this point forward will probably require flashing the GPU bios first (new cards coming out will all probably be Gen 2.)
     
  17. A-L-E-X

    A-L-E-X Limp Gawd

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    My main concern is will the 8800 series cards (any of them) work with XP on this mobo or do I need to set up a dual boot with Vista (since I have many programs that I use that wouldnt work with Vista.)
     
  18. A-L-E-X

    A-L-E-X Limp Gawd

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    BTW does the AMD version of this board (939 core dual sata 2 I think its called) actually support the 8800GT out of the box and does it somehow have the full PCIe 16x AND AGP 8x built in? Wow... I feel ripped off now (I would have gone AMD, seeing that their platform is future proof and I bet you could use their new quad core chip on that mobo.)
     
  19. Nabuchodonosor

    Nabuchodonosor n00b

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    I think KO's clocks are about the same as MSI OC's ones, so I will practically take the same card only with GEN1 bios, if everything will go right. My main concern -though- is not about the risk of flashing procedure itself (I have flashed bios many times before) but by putting wrong bios on a certain chip, that can potentially really f@!* up your chip....
     
  20. A-L-E-X

    A-L-E-X Limp Gawd

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    BTW I did some research and found out the new 8800GTS 640MB cards with 96 stream processors are PCIe 1.0, not 2! So we *might* be able to use them without flashing the gpu bios on this chipset! I saw one on the eVGA site that even has Crysis bundled with it and its going for a nifty $380.
     
  21. A-L-E-X

    A-L-E-X Limp Gawd

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    Does this still require a new mobo to flash from though? I might just as well go with the new 8800GTS 640MB card with 96 stream processors, since they dont seem to require you to flash the bios (theyre PCIe 1.0.)

    My only question is will the 8800 series work at all under XP or do I need to dual boot with Vista.

     
  22. Commander Suzdal

    Commander Suzdal 2[H]4U

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    Wow! Lots of back and forth here. Let me try to catch up some of the unanswered questions.

    Any of these cards, once made to work with the mobo, will work fine with XP. You will not have DX10 graphics options available in games, as that requires Vista, but there is no compatibility problem with XP.

    If the "new" GTS 640 has 96 stream processors, that in itself is no performance gain--the "old" GTS 320 and 640 have that many. The G92-based GTS is supposed to have 128, I think, like the current GTX. All that to say, the only advantages of this "new" GTS over the GT would be the memory size, the bigger cooler, and the PCI-E 1.0 BIOS. It would probably still be slower than an 8800 GT and cost more.

    As for the Socket 939-based Asrock board, if it uses the same VIA chipset, I'm sure it has the same 4X PCI-E slot, though a quick check of the specs on NewEgg would tell you. Don't think you were cheated--any CoreDuo will outperform an equivalent 939 AMD chip, they overclock better, and you would NOT be future-proofed (they've already abandoned Socket 939 for Socket AM2--in recent years, Intel has switched sockets much less frequently than AMD.)

    I'm sure any board based on the VIA chipset would require you to flash an 8800GT on a different board before using it.

    There are two PCI-E 1.0 compatible 8800GT BIOSes linked from this thread. One is from Asus, which I believe would flash your card to stock clocks. The other is from eVGA and would flash your card to KO clocks. There is no BIOS compatibility issue, as all the cards available at retail right now are reference design as far as the PCB is concerned. There are two models floating around out there with custom cooling, but I'm pretty sure that's the only variance right now.

    Whew! Hope that covers it.
     
  23. Optimummind

    Optimummind Gawd

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    Just to add a bit to this, there is another difference between 2 BIOS's. The Asus 8800GT is based on version 62.92.12.00.00 and the eVGA 8800GT KO BIOS versoin is 62.92.12.00.05.

    If you want to flash to the newer revision BIOS:

    (1) Download the eVGA 8800GT KO BIOS
    (2) Open it using Nibitor
    (3) Change the clocks of the core, memory, and shader engines to the stock 8800GT speeds
    (4) Save the changes in Nibitor
    (5) Flash the 8800GT

    I dont' know what differences there are between version 62.92.12.00.00 and 62.92.12.00.05, but I'm using the newer BIOS on the assumption that it's more optimized. When I used to flash the ATI 9800NP with a 9800Pro BIOS and the 6800GT to a 6800Ultra BIOS, I always flashed the cards with the newest BIOS and I've had no problems.

    BTW, here's another update on the stability of the eVGA 8800GT KO on my ASRock 775Dual-VSTA: The card works perfectly and I can run Crysis at 1280x960 with all settings set to "High" except for Shadows, which is set to "Medium." The game maintains framerates between 28 - 35 fps most of the time, sometimes dipping lower in intensive largescale battles but also going up past 35 fps in less intensive, closed setting maps.

    -Optimummind
     
  24. Optimummind

    Optimummind Gawd

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    Yes, the 8800GTS will work both in XP and Vista. If you go with the older 8800GTS, then you won't have to flash the GPU. You just need the latest nVIDIA drivers so you can use your card in the OS.

    If you have a friend who has a PCIE mobo, it might be more cost-effective to flash the 8800GT and use it on your mobo because:

    (1) the 8800GT is faster than the 8800GTS with 96 SPs
    (2) the 8800GT is cheaper

    -Optimummind
     
  25. Optimummind

    Optimummind Gawd

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    Yes, the 939Dual mobo for AMD fully supports the PCIE specification unlike the VIA-based Intel ASRock dual-series mobos. The AMD Dual mobo is based on the ULI chipset.

    -Optimummind
     
  26. Optimummind

    Optimummind Gawd

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  27. babygiorgio1

    babygiorgio1 [H]Lite

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    i just purchased the 8800gt and found out that i have the same problem as you guys since i have the same m/b (asrock 775dual-vsta)
    i have 2 options:
    1) downgrade the card though the bios. if so, what performance hit i will take?
    2) buy a new m/b. if i buy a new m/b anyone have any advise which one? my cpu is an intel e6600
     
  28. Commander Suzdal

    Commander Suzdal 2[H]4U

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    Good to know. I always wondered what happened to that ULI chipset that got such good press awhile back. Didn't they get bought out by somebody?
     
  29. Optimummind

    Optimummind Gawd

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    Yes, nVIDIA bought them out during the times when ATI's own southbridge chipset was in trouble and they were relying on a ULI chipset to make up for it. Most people think nVIDIA bought ULI only to hassle ATI. :D
     
  30. Optimummind

    Optimummind Gawd

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    Flashing the BIOS generation to GEN1 from GEN2 isn't a downgrade. AFAIK, only the X48 chipset supports PCIE 2.0 specification and they aren't even out yet. That means that 99% of the mobos out right now are still on PCIE GEN1 and using the 8800GT on it wouldn't be a downgrade at all. Even if you place the 8800GT or 3870 into a GEN2-supported mobo, performance difference is NOT expected be shown since the increased bandwidth of PCIE 2.0 is mostly geared toward multi-GPU setups involving three and more GPU's and not single-card solutions.

    Using any PCIE-based GPU on the ASRock VIA-based mobos, however, is considered a "downgrade" b/c the VIA PT880Pro/Ultra limits PCIE bandwidth to 4x. The real-world gaming performance difference, however, between a x16 PCIE card running at full x16 speed and a x16 card running at x4 speed, is small (between 5 to 10%, according to Anandtech's review of the ASRock 775Dual-VSTA from last year).

    This difference becomes even smaller as you move down the CPU gradient as the bottleneck moves from being GPU-limited to CPU-limited. So, if you have a mid-range or low-end CPU, then the performance difference is expected to become almost null.

    I don't know if you read my benchmark numbers from my previous post but there was only a 15% average difference in performance between system #1 and #2 with specs such as:

    *System #1*
    -Intel E6600 2.4GHz@3.2GHz + eVGA 8800GT KO (stock speeds) + 2GB DDR2-800
    -Gigabyte P35C-DS3R

    *System #2*
    -Intel E6600 2.4GHz@2.66GHz + eVGA 8800GT KO (stock speeds + 2GB DDR2-800
    -ASRock 775Dual-VSTA

    Because of this 15% difference, I returned the P35C-DS3R mobo which cost me $169.99 and kept the 8800GT on the 775Dual-VSTA.

    Even with the 8800GT KO being limited to x4 speeds, I can run Crysis at 1280x960 with all settings set to "High" and only the Shader setting being set to "Medium."

    -Optimummind
     
  31. honestjohn

    honestjohn Gawd

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    Optmummind, actually there are a number of X38 motherboards available which support PCI-E 2.0. Another big plus with these boards is that both PCI-E slots will work at 16x in Crossfire. The only real drawback to these boards is the price ....

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Description=x38

    (NewEgg is having issues right now, so you may need to try the link more than once.)
     
  32. Optimummind

    Optimummind Gawd

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    Ah, ic. Thx for the update. ;)

    -Optimummind
     
  33. Nabuchodonosor

    Nabuchodonosor n00b

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    I don't get it, I just got my 8800GT and while it predictably did not boot on Asrock it din't boot on a 975x backup chipset, I have, either :( . I mean it should had been compatible and -at least- had let me to flash the bios of the card on the 975x chpset (Albatron). Is there anything wrong on what I'm doing? I mean I suspected that it is the additional 4-pin power cable that my PSU had instead for the 8-pin that the mobo wanted, but there is no way that that is the one to blame, I mean I had the 4 pin, no probl, in many other occasions.

    Do you know anything about the 975x chipset -maybe- be the source of all evils on my occasion, or is it anything I'm doing wrong???
     
  34. honestjohn

    honestjohn Gawd

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    What are your detailed specs? PSU make/model, motherboard specific model, etc.?
     
  35. stickboy

    stickboy [H]Lite

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    The EVGA 8800gts 640 SSC is actually 112 stream processors. It is based on the rev A2 g80 core with the unlocked SPs. Im not sure why EVGA advertises it as 96+, maybe because of the issue with SLI. Benchmarks put it basically on par with the reference 8800gt at lower resolutions and at higher resolutions it pulls ahead, especially with DirectX 10 games.

    I went ahead and ordered this card because I didn't want to deal with flashing the 8800gt and because I like playing my games at high resolutions on a widescreen LCD.
     
  36. Commander Suzdal

    Commander Suzdal 2[H]4U

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    I thought I remembered reading that such a hybrid part was out there, but the 96 thing threw me off. Yeah, I can see it having some value at the same number of shaders as a GT. I just really want and need to save the $100+ price difference! But for those needing the extra RAM, bus-width, and cooling etc. for high-res widescreen, that GTS would still be a bargain compared to the GTX or Ultra.
     
  37. stickboy

    stickboy [H]Lite

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    The EVGA 8800gts 640 SSC (112 SP model) was only $340 (after rebate) and came with quake wars so it didn't seem like such a bad deal compared to the GT.
     
  38. A-L-E-X

    A-L-E-X Limp Gawd

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    Thanks for the help everyone. It looks like the 8800GT is the best deal out there right now... even with the caveat of having to do a bios flash, and, according to the benches Ive seen, will probably DOUBLE the performance of my 7950GT. Im looking forward to playing Crysis and Bioshock with this card!
     
  39. A-L-E-X

    A-L-E-X Limp Gawd

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    http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=939Dual-SATA2&s=n

    The 939dual sata2 seems to be future proofed as it supports AM2...going through the list of features, the only drawback I see is that it doesnt support DDR2. However, a review at Tomshardware showed that it performs about 5% slower than another amd board.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/09/16/asrock_939dual/index.html

    All in all, Im not unhappy about my purchase as the Q6600 cpu I have is faster than any processor amd has out there right now plus the 4core dual supports ddr2 memory and the bus speed reduction is not that big of a deal... the only drawback is the lack of pcie 2 support.
     
  40. A-L-E-X

    A-L-E-X Limp Gawd

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