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Arrow Lake Refresh

Comixbooks

Comixbooks

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Jun 7, 2008
Messages
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INTEL-CORE-ULTRA-270K-250K-PLUS-HERO-1536x799.jpg





INTEL-CORE-200S-PLUS-1.jpg




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https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-announces-299-core-ultra-7-270k-and-199-core-ultra-5-250k-cpus
 
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Anyone know timeframe for launch of these (other than 2H 2025)? I'm probably going to Intel for this round because it seems like Intel is giving more cores for the money and i don't do THAT much gaming.
 
pillagenburn said:
Anyone know timeframe for launch of these (other than 2H 2025)? I'm probably going to Intel for this round because it seems like Intel is giving more cores for the money and i don't do THAT much gaming.
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Last few generations have all launched in October.
 
kirbyrj said:
Same socket?
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Yes, same as Arrow Lake. It's just a refresh, like 13th -> 14th gen. All the leaks/rumors say new socket & chipset for Nova Lake. Maybe also DDR6.

1851 was supposed to be 3 generations, but they cancelled Meteor Lake desktop and Panther Lake isn't coming to desktop either. Oops.

I don't think I'll get one. 10% isn't enough, and my285k build is doing just fine with what I do and play.

Nova Lake and Zen 6 sound a lot more interesting. Zen 6 will have CCDs with up to 12 cores. There are leaks/rumors about a "large last level cache" version of Nova Lake, so an X3D competitor. Also leaks about a massive increase in core count for the top end Nova Lake Core Ultra 9s - 16 p-cores, 32 e-cores and 4 low power cores.
 
zandor said:
Yes, same as Arrow Lake. It's just a refresh, like 13th -> 14th gen. All the leaks/rumors say new socket & chipset for Nova Lake. Maybe also DDR6.

1851 was supposed to be 3 generations, but they cancelled Meteor Lake desktop and Panther Lake isn't coming to desktop either. Oops.

I don't think I'll get one. 10% isn't enough, and my285k build is doing just fine with what I do and play.

Nova Lake and Zen 6 sound a lot more interesting. Zen 6 will have CCDs with up to 12 cores. There are leaks/rumors about a "large last level cache" version of Nova Lake, so an X3D competitor. Also leaks about a massive increase in core count for the top end Nova Lake Core Ultra 9s - 16 p-cores, 32 e-cores and 4 low power cores.
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I'd be very interested to see gaming performance on the i9 with 16 pcores when you shut off all the ecores and see how fast the 16 pcores can be boosted up for gaming thread performance.
 
xDiVolatilX said:
I'd be very interested to see gaming performance on the i9 with 16 pcores when you shut off all the ecores and see how fast the 16 pcores can be boosted up for gaming thread performance.
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maybe their way to do "chiplet" will be different, but chance are you will want the game to run all on the same compute tile instead of split on 2, making it effectively still an 8 pcore gaming cpu with that giant 144mb L3 having everything in the same compute tile sound really interesting......

And not many game would have there 9th-10th and down less important workload benefit much of running on a p instead of e-core (if any), to make the latency trade off worth it
 
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LukeTbk said:
maybe there way to do "chiplet" will be different, but chance are you will want the game to run all on the same compute tile instead of split on 2, making it effectively still an 8 pcore gaming cpu with that giant 144mb L3 having everything in the same compute tile sound really interesting......

And not many game would have there 9th-10th and down less important workload benefit much of running on a p instead of e-core (if any), to make the latency trade off worth it
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So far Intel's tiled designs are quite different. AMD has been doing things basically the same way for several generations, while Intel is iterating on their tiled designs. Maybe they'll come up with a solution to the gaming on 2 compute dies problem.

AMD has an IO die and some number of CCDs, 1-2 in desktops. The IO die has the PCI-e and memory controllers, graphics if present, etc. The CPU cores and L3 cache are on the CCDs.

Sapphire Rapids Xeons have 4 tiles, each of which has up to 15 CPU cores, L3 cache and PCI-e and memory controllers.
Emerald Rapids has a IO tiles with the PCI-e controllers and up to two compute tiles with up to 32 cores, L3 and memory controllers.
Granite Rapids and Sierra Forrest are similar to Emerald Rapids but increases the maximum number of compute tiles to 3.
Arrow Lake and Meteor Lake are split out into a compute tile with CPU cores and L3, GPU tile, IO tile with PCI-e and Thunderbolt, and an SoC tile with the memory controller, more PCI-e, DMI, and assorted other functions.
Lunar Lake has a CPU/GPU tile with the memory controller & L3, an SoC tile handling IO, and embedded LPDDR5 chips.
 
I'll reserve judgement until chips are actually in reviewers hands. I have never understood giving any weight to speculation.
 
Anyone know if the iGPU upgrade in the arrow lake refresh happening or not? That was my other major reason for waiting to buy it. If not then a 265k would be fine for me.
 
Damn. Just a small bump in clock speeds. Will be skipping it. Also it's going to be funny when the 290K plus can't even break the 14900 chips lol although the power savings are decent.
 
when I saw that it's pretty much confirmed that the iGPU isn't going to get an upgrade I just went a dug up a 14900k and re-used my 128GB DDR4
 
After plugging back in my 2021 12700K back in from my broken 13700K the lack of any upgrade path sucks it's 2025. I do I have a extra 13700KF that Amazon shipped by mistake for Free but I'm not going to go through the high temps I experience last summer again. A 100HZ bump with the I9 290 is laughable that is something you would of see with a PC in 1998. I hope Nova Lake comes out next year anyway I'm not going to go AMD unless I really have to my Noctua cooler for both but I'm not sure if my DDR5 will work in a AMD system.
 
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Comixbooks said:
After plugging back in my 2021 12700K back in from my broken 13700K the lack of any upgrade path sucks it's 2025. I do I have a extra 13700KF that Amazon shipped by mistake for Free but I'm not going to go through the high temps I experience last summer again. A 100HZ bump with the I9 290 is laughable that is something you would of see with a PC in 1998.
I hope Nova Lake comes out next year anyway I'm not going to go AMD unless I really have to my Noctua cooler for both but I'm not sure if my DDR5 will work in a AMD system.
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wouldnt want to part with that 13700kf then? since you dont want to use it? my son would love to get the i3-1200f i put in for him replaced... lol...
 
TeleFragger said:
i have an i9 13900k and was thinking of going 14900k but dont know if is worth it.
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From what I can tell it really looks like it isn't worth it. If you got a reeeeeally good price on the sale of your 13900k maybe but even then it's such a marginal performance improvement.

The only reason I went 14900k is because I'm upgrading from a 3900x and I saw the videos of how uneven the heatsink contact is on these CPU's and didn't want to buy a used high-power CPU that sat under what appears to be an inadequate mounting and retention mechanism its whole life while it slowly fried itself.

On the flip side of that I got a new 14900k for $380 shipped, a DDR4 z790 board for $120 shipped and installed both a contact frame as well as metal backing bracket. I think there is a stigma attached to these chips for burning up or something. Probably why I got the CPU for like $50+ under what it was going for in the stores.
 
pillagenburn said:
From what I can tell it really looks like it isn't worth it. If you got a reeeeeally good price on the sale of your 13900k maybe but even then it's such a marginal performance improvement.

The only reason I went 14900k is because I'm upgrading from a 3900x and I saw the videos of how uneven the heatsink contact is on these CPU's and didn't want to buy a used high-power CPU that sat under what appears to be an inadequate mounting and retention mechanism its whole life while it slowly fried itself.

On the flip side of that I got a new 14900k for $380 shipped, a DDR4 z790 board for $120 shipped and installed both a contact frame as well as metal backing bracket. I think there is a stigma attached to these chips for burning up or something. Probably why I got the CPU for like $50+ under what it was going for in the stores.
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I wouldnt sell my i9, upgrade my son from i3
 
TeleFragger said:
i have an i9 13900k and was thinking of going 14900k but dont know if is worth it.
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13900k 13900ks 14900k 14900ks are all exactly the same. I have a 13900ks and I run it at 5.3/4.3 because it's most efficient at these clocks voltage wise at about 1.25v average and will last me for a looooong time without any degredation plus less heat in my PC room. Hits144hs regardless so no point in upgrading same architecture same performance.
 
Yep the only difference is voltage binning. The problem is it's all a silicon lottery. So it's absolutely possible to get a random 13900K that has a better v/f curve than a poorly binned 14900KS. Unless you are willing to go buy like 10-20 14900KS CPUs to bin them, there's no guarantee you'll get a better CPU. Hell I actually tried buying 5 KS CPUs and couldn't find a single one better than my old K. This is not to mention the fact that each chip will age differently, especially when it comes to undervolting, so a chip might look better for a few weeks but actually end up worse than an inferior bin after 5-6 months.
 
Comixbooks said:
https://browser.geekbench.com/processors/intel-core-i9-14900k

View attachment 778919


Looks to be a big jump over the 14900KS


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If that geekbench info for the 290K is correct-----its not even a new stepping. No changes to cache size, etc.

Which would mean these are probably just cherry picked binned parts. Extremely dissapointing.

I was hoping they would add some cache. And make the "200S Boost" specs the actual default spec. If not even better than what 200S boost does.

They really are leaving LGA 1851 in a ditch.

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Yea leaving in a ditch is exactly what they're doing.

And even worse is next gen is going to have 32 e cores. I don't think I'm going to pay for e cores anymore.

I hope AMD does not do e cores. They save high cores for threadripper. I think they have it figured out.
Maybe the 16 core dual ccd will be the saving grace for a looooong while let's see what the 9950x3d2 will bring if it's true.
 
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zandor said:
They've done it before. 11th gen came out in March 2021 & 12th gen followed in November 2022, and neither of them was a refresh.
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Wasn't 11th gen worse than 10th gen? I remember looking at benchmarks and hard passing, and then buying a 10940X.
 
arestavo said:
Wasn't 11th gen worse than 10th gen? I remember looking at benchmarks and hard passing, and then buying a 10940X.
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Wasn't much of an upgrade, and the i9s had fewer cores. 10th gen i9 had 10, 11th only had 8 like the i7. In other words the top end was worse in multi thread unless AVX512 was involved.

At any rate my point was Intel launched 2 architectures ~8 months apart, so I don't think a made by TSMC refresh is going to block a fabbed by Intel Nova Lake launch.
 
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