Apples new Iphone SE

jeremyshaw

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I'm running an iPhone 6 still, and the only thing still causing me hesitation is Lightening charging. Looks good otherwise.
Literally seems to be an upgraded iPhone 8, sans the "large" sized model.
 

Aurelius

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https://www.engadget.com/apple-iphone-se-2020-a13-bionic-399-150049020.html

Man that thing packs alot of value in that price tag. Google and andriod manufactures thats how its done

A13 chipset
64/128GB/256 Storage options
4.7 display
IP68 dust/water
Wireless charging
Camera Quality unknown but its apple so it will punch above its weight

It supports Smart HDR, stereo recording and other features from recent iPhones for the most part, so it's safe to say the target market won't complain.

Honestly, if I didn't feel claustrophobic with a 4.7-inch screen at this point, I'd be very interested.
 

Vengance_01

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It supports Smart HDR, stereo recording and other features from recent iPhones for the most part, so it's safe to say the target market won't complain.

Honestly, if I didn't feel claustrophobic with a 4.7-inch screen at this point, I'd be very interested.
Thats where the XR will fill that void
 

Aurelius

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Thats where the XR will fill that void

Well, it does except that it costs more and uses an older processor. I suspect we won't get a true step up over the new SE until the fall, and that might just be a price-cut iPhone 11 (not that many would complain).
 

CHANG3D

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With this phone’s existence and it’s fantastic value, most android mid-ranges without 5G are basically DOA. Had apple included 5G to this phone, this could have been a death blow to Google. Like who’s going to buy the upcoming Pixel 4a if it didn’t have 5G? If the SE2 had 5G, there be zero advantage for any android phones at the $400 price range.
 
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CHANG3D

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I really don't see that being the case. Current 5g is over rated and not needed for this phones demographic. Apple is gonna sell a ton of these.
don’t think we’re in any way disagreement over here. Did you read it wrong or did I word it wrong?
 

T4rd

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I really don't see that being the case. Current 5g is over rated and not needed for this phones demographic. Apple is gonna sell a ton of these.

Yeah, Apple was a year or more later after it was on Android flagships to get LTE in the iPhone, which really didn't seem to matter to Apple or consumers at the time and the same goes for now too IMO. I wouldn't be surprised if the iPhone 12s don't have 5G either and I doubt many people will care still since it's not worth the hit on battery and only maybe 1/4 of its buyers (and that's a bit optimistic) will even have 5G available for the first couple years of its life.

don’t think we’re in any way disagreement over here. Did you read it wrong or did I word it wrong?

The key word you were originally missing was "Android mid-ranges", which it seems like you just went back and added in since it wasn't in his quote from you.

But I'm not sure why most mid-range phone buyers would care about 5G either since not even most flagship buyers right now care about it. I know if I had the option to save another $100+ on my next phone if it didn't have 5G hardware in it, I would def be taking that at least, esp. since I'm in Europe for the next couple years for work and will rarely be back in the states to use it. I would have got an Exynos S20 phone by now if it wasn't so much worse than the Snapdragon variants and yet still costs the same without even having 5G though.

If Google were smart, they would release the Pixel 5 without 5G with either the 865 or even the 7xx (forgot the exact model) chip and forward that cost savings to the customer in order to give a better value, but I don't see them doing that and if anything they'll put the SD 7xx SoC in the phone with 5G and still try to sell it at $800+ still, lol. I'm sure this 4a will come out at $450+ still (if there isn't an XL model anymore, not sure if that's still the rumor) and side by side the SE craps all over it, but the reality is that most people aren't cross-shopping between iOS and Android phones too, though Apple providing awesome value phones like this may change that up a bit now and other OEMs would be wise to consider that still when marketing and pricing their competing mid-range phones.
 

CHANG3D

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The key word you were originally missing was "Android mid-ranges", which it seems like you just went back and added in since it wasn't in his quote from you
yup, I reworded it based on your confusions. Thought by context of me talking about it being a death blow to Google y’all could have inferred I was referring to android mid ranges. My bad

5G whether or not it’s useful right now is still a legit long term selling point. If Google doesn’t include 5G, they will have nearly zero selling point on a hardware level. I don’t even know how HMD Nokia’s would sell their phones now. If the OnePlus 8 doesn’t have 5G, why would anyone get that phone?
 

T4rd

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5G whether or not it’s useful right now is still a legit long term selling point. If Google doesn’t include 5G, they will have nearly zero selling point on a hardware level. I don’t even know how HMD Nokia’s would sell their phones now. If the OnePlus 8 doesn’t have 5G, why would anyone get that phone?

Because it would be considerably cheaper without it, which is why most people bought OP phones before. Like I said, I would rather pay less and not have 5G (and better battery life) right now than pay more for something I can't use for the forseeable future. I'm sure there are many out there in more rural areas that would say the same thing at this point. But in general too, I won't buy something now based on some future update or feature it should get later, because you never know when or if that future thing will be available (I know 5G is inevitable though, but I'm just speaking in general terms here), or basically I won't consider any feature that I can't use now when buying something.

Also, do you think the next iPhone will have 5G? Because unless Intel or Qualcomm can get a chip ready for them to have all 4G and 5G bands on one chip, I don't see it happening this year. I'm sure Apple would rather save the cost and battery hit on the next iPhone rather than have 5G, and I think that's the right call for most of their customers this year too just like it was when 4G/LTE was new and they skipped it for another year then. Same for the Android side, but I understand Android OEMs feel more pressure from their other Android OEM peers than they do from Apple in terms of competition and matching each other's features.
 
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Puterguru

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I did here they will be releasing an improved version of the new SE as well very shortly. The iPhone SE X.
 

T4rd

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I did here they will be releasing an improved version of the new SE as well very shortly. The iPhone SE X.

I heard they're launching a new upgrade program too called "Better Upgrade That Thing" just for the rumored SE X, so you can get a good deal with the BUTT SE X.

I'll see myself out now....
 

Zepher

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I am rocking an original iPhone SE and will probably get this one. Just have to find a few things to sell since I don't qualify for the $1200 stimulus money. :(.
 

CHANG3D

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Because it would be considerably cheaper without it, which is why most people bought OP phones before. Like I said, I would rather pay less and not have 5G (and better battery life) right now than pay more for something I can't use for the forseeable future. I'm sure there are many out there in more rural areas that would say the same thing at this point. But in general too, I won't buy something now based on some future update or feature it should get later, because you never know when or if that future thing will be available (I know 5G is inevitable though, but I'm just speaking in general terms here), or basically I won't consider any feature that I can't use now when buying something.

Also, do you think the next iPhone will have 5G? Because unless Intel or Qualcomm can get a chip ready for them to have all 4G and 5G bands on one chip, I don't see it happening this year. I'm sure Apple would rather save the cost and battery hit on the next iPhone rather than have 5G, and I think that's the right call for most of their customers this year too just like it was when 4G/LTE was new and they skipped it for another year then. Same for the Android side, but I understand Android OEMs feel more pressure from their other Android OEM peers than they do from Apple in terms of competition and matching each other's features.
5G is mostly useless right not that’s for sure, but most people use their phones for 2-3 years. So 5G is like the only hardware selling point for midrange android phones for now.

It is highly probable that Apple will have 5G phones this year with iPhone 12 or 11S or XIS or whatever the series will be called. Qualcomm is the sole provider of the modems this time.
https://www.businessinsider.com/app...h-may-be-delayed-because-of-the-coronavirus-1
 

exlink

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Apparently the camera hardware is older but it’ll use the same image processing tech as the latest iPhones. It’s unclear whether the camera hardware is from the 8 or the XS which I believe had a slightly better sensor.
 

kirbyrj

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The small battery leaves something to be desired...

I might end up with the Pixel 4a just because it will undoubtedly last a day and a half to 2 days on a charge.
 

Tup3x

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With this phone’s existence and it’s fantastic value, most android mid-ranges without 5G are basically DOA. Had apple included 5G to this phone, this could have been a death blow to Google. Like who’s going to buy the upcoming Pixel 4a if it didn’t have 5G? If the SE2 had 5G, there be zero advantage for any android phones at the $400 price range.
Do people really care 5G at this point? I sure don't. It's worth nothing at the moment. These first implementations all suck.
 

Trimlock

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Not only do they suck but there isn’t a reason for 5g, at least nothing ground breaking.
 

kirbyrj

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Tons of value. Im actually mad it has the same chip as my 11 pro.

The biggest difference is that you have the BATTERY of the 11 pro which makes this phone a tough sell for a distinct segment of the market. What good is it if you only get half a day of charge out of it?
 

Zepher

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The biggest difference is that you have the BATTERY of the 11 pro which makes this phone a tough sell for a distinct segment of the market. What good is it if you only get half a day of charge out of it?
it's only half a day if you are playing local videos constantly for 13 hours (8 hours if you are streaming).
you can play audio on it for 40 hours.
 
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The biggest difference is that you have the BATTERY of the 11 pro which makes this phone a tough sell for a distinct segment of the market. What good is it if you only get half a day of charge out of it?
Ehh there’s that but the battery life is that bad.
 

Aurelius

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I think android authority summed it up pretty well. They’re a bit more diplomatic than I was when I said that Android mid-ranges without 5G are DOA. Now, they basically have to sell those phones at around $250 in order to compete against this flagship killing device.

https://www.androidauthority.com/tech-news-34-1107803/amp/

I don't know about DOA, but they're definitely tougher sells. That mid-tier Android phone may have a larger, higher-res screen and an extra camera, but it'll probably feel mediocre all around. Its main advantage apart from the screen will likely be sheer ubiquity. There are numerous countries where Apple doesn't have much presence or cachet.
 

Aurelius

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The biggest difference is that you have the BATTERY of the 11 pro which makes this phone a tough sell for a distinct segment of the market. What good is it if you only get half a day of charge out of it?

The iPhone 8 had pretty solid battery life; I suspect a more efficient CPU could wring out more runtime if everything goes well.
 

kirbyrj

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it's only half a day if you are playing local videos constantly for 13 hours (8 hours if you are streaming).
you can play audio on it for 40 hours.

Or we can look at actual math...

Iphone 11 Pro = 10.5 hrs SOT with a 3100 mAh battery
Iphone SE = X hrs SOT with a 1800 mAh battery

Solve for X. (Hint...X is somewhere in the 6 hour range).

This is the Toms Hardware test in which the Pixel 3a was also tested at almost 12 hours for comparison.

The iPhone 8 had pretty solid battery life; I suspect a more efficient CPU could wring out more runtime if everything goes well.

I started looking back at that to get an idea, but most reviews pointed out that it was significantly better than the iPhone 7 which was poor.
 
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Aurelius

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I started looking back at that to get an idea, but most reviews pointed out that it was significantly better than the iPhone 7 which was poor.

Poor? Really? I had an iPhone 7 and it lasted me through some pretty long days. I know that's an anecdote, but I haven't heard of reviewers or others calling the iPhone 7's battery miserable, either.

Also, your math on battery life is... well, flawed. Different screen sizes and resolutions have wildly different effects on battery life. I'd reserve judgment until people are publishing tests. I'm not expecting iPhone 11 numbers, but the SE will be using a more efficient chip than the 8 while using the same screen.
 

UnknownSouljer

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Or we can look at actual math...

Iphone 11 Pro = 10.5 hrs SOT with a 3100 mAh battery
Iphone SE = X hrs SOT with a 1800 mAh battery

Solve for X. (Hint...X is somewhere in the 6 hour range).
There is a lot missing from your "calculation".
These two phones don't use the same display type. They aren't the same resolution. And one screen is obviously much bigger than the other.
SoT as a measurement is a big deal because obviously for most phones, if the display is off a phone can run for days. In other words, the display is basically the most battery draining feature of a phone.

It makes far more sense to look at the original iPhone 8 and make a best guess rather than looking at the 11 Pro and making a best guess. From what I've seen the 8's battery life is quite good in comparison to the 6/6s and 7.
 

Shoganai

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There is a lot missing from your "calculation".
These two phones don't use the same display type. They aren't the same resolution. And one screen is obviously much bigger than the other.
SoT as a measurement is a big deal because obviously for most phones, if the display is off a phone can run for days. In other words, the display is basically the most battery draining feature of a phone.

It makes far more sense to look at the original iPhone 8 and make a best guess rather than looking at the 11 Pro and making a best guess. From what I've seen the 8's battery life is quite good in comparison to the 6/6s and 7.
The SE is driving considerably less pixels, which would also technically make this phone faster than the Pro for various applications, especially games.
 

UnknownSouljer

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The SE is driving considerably less pixels, which would also technically make this phone faster than the Pro for various applications, especially games.
Not sure why you're specifically quoting me. My commentary is only about battery life and power usage.
The amount of power the APU uses is the same regardless of resolution. Just like a desktop GPU uses the same amount of power regardless of if you're driving 1080p or 4k.
Yes you can drive more frames at a lower resolution (which from a technical standpoint doesn't make the phone "faster", they're still the same speed), but again to my point: that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
 
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Shoganai

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Not sure why you're specifically quoting me. My commentary is only about battery life and power usage.
The amount of power the APU uses is the same regardless of resolution. Just like a desktop GPU uses the same amount of power regardless of if you're driving 1080p or 4k.
Yes you can drive more frames at a lower resolution (which from a technical standpoint doesn't make the phone "faster", they're still the same speed), but again to my point: that has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
Was just adding to the comment regarding resolution, that it’s a benefit in some cases. I wasn’t disagreeing with anything you said. Battery life will definitely hurt a bit with this phone.
 

ChronoReverse

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Just like a desktop GPU uses the same amount of power regardless of if you're driving 1080p or 4k.
This is in fact wrong when you're doing anything that requires said GPU. Even desktop composition has a slight difference. Only the most mundane tasks would show no difference.

In any case, the phones are different enough that I suspect the SE will have good battery life. The iPhone 11 has a larger but lower resolution LCD screen and a slightly larger battery than the 11 Pro but it gets more battery life than the percentage larger battery would suggest.

The use of LCD technology with a much smaller screen means the SE will have good battery life. The A13 is great at idling and there aren't very many tasks that actually load up the CPU when the biggest drain is still the screen. You just have to look at the iPhone 8 vs iPhone X to see how the new SE is going to be fine when you're actually using the phone.
 
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UnknownSouljer

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This is in fact wrong when you're doing anything that requires said GPU. Even desktop composition has a slight difference. Only the most mundane tasks would show no difference.
I'd love to see you site any data on that. Anything that shows any form of meaningful difference.

In any case, the phones are different enough that I suspect the SE will have good battery life. The iPhone 11 has a larger but lower resolution LCD screen and a slightly larger battery than the 11 Pro but it gets more battery life than the percentage larger battery would suggest.

The use of LCD technology with a much smaller screen means the SE will have good battery life. The A13 is great at idling and there aren't very many tasks that actually load up the CPU when the biggest drain is still the screen. You just have to look at the iPhone 8 vs iPhone X to see how the new SE is going to be fine when you're actually using the phone.
I basically covered all this information above. But the expectation I have is that it will likely be around the same battery life as an iPhone 8. The only way to know for certain would be to know the power draw of both SOC's. Otherwise we're just waiting for someone to do tests, which will likely be out within a week or so.
 

ChronoReverse

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I'd love to see you site any data on that. Anything that shows any form of meaningful difference.


I basically covered all this information above. But the expectation I have is that it will likely be around the same battery life as an iPhone 8. The only way to know for certain would be to know the power draw of both SOC's. Otherwise we're just waiting for someone to do tests, which will likely be out within a week or so.
How about a friendly bet then? I'm willing to wager the iPhone SE2 will have at least 10% better battery life than the iPhone 8 despite both having 1800mAH batteries. In fact, I expect the SE2 to match the average battery life of the 11 Pro. It'll be worse in things like phone calls and idle but be better in things like web browsing and gaming.
 

UnknownSouljer

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How about a friendly bet then? I'm willing to wager the iPhone SE2 will have at least 10% better battery life than the iPhone 8 despite both having 1800mAH batteries. In fact, I expect the SE2 to match the average battery life of the 11 Pro. It'll be worse in things like phone calls and idle but be better in things like web browsing and gaming.
You're quoting two different issues.
Your original quote was referring to a statement I made that a SOC/GPU uses the same amount of power whether it's rendering 1080p or 4k. You said this in response: "This is in fact wrong when you're doing anything that requires said GPU. Even desktop composition has a slight difference. Only the most mundane tasks would show no difference."
My challenge back was to show that there was any form of measurable difference on the same GPU/APU in terms of power usage and different resolutions. If there was, when reviewsites like the former [H]ard|OCP did GPU power tests from the wall it would be necessary to show "power usage by resolution". Something they never did nor had to do, because those two things aren't joined. If utiliziation is 100%, the power usage is the same regardless of resolution. If they're both at 80% utilization the power usage is the same regardless of resolution. On down to 50% or 30%, or 12% or whatever random number you want to pick. The point is, it's equal power.
.
I make and have made zero predictions about the battery life of the iPhone SE (2020) versus the iPhone 8 other than I have an expectation that it will be around the same. It is completely dependent (as I noted earlier) on which SOC uses more power. There have been die shrinks but there also have been transistor increases. As Apple is the only one with the technical specs in terms of power usage, it's impossible to predict. That's why we have review sites that actually do side by side tests. If it has a 10% increase in battery life, great. But that isn't really germane to what I was talking about.
 

ChronoReverse

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I think you're confusing something here. If the GPU is just displaying a static 2D image of course the resolution doesn't come into play, but start using the GPU and it will absolutely make a difference. HardOCP's tests are only idle vs maximum load and they very specifically test at the maximum settings they could put into the GPU. They don't need to say it's for XYZ resolution because the implication is they're trying to make the GPU draw as much as they can (although after the release of power viruses like Furmark, it's "as much GPU draw as realistic").

Are you thinking in terms of no-vsync perhaps? That's the only way I can see how someone could think lower resolutions don't use less power. You're literally asking the GPU to do less work.


As for the battery life, if your expectation is the same then that's precisely what's wrong. The A13 is already known to be more efficient than the previous A12 and A11. There's not really any scenario where the iPhone SE2 will have worse battery life unless Apple packs in additional hardware.
 
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