Apple to make the App Store less intuitive with more prompts to level the playing field, accidently rolls it out ahead of ruling.

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Lakados

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https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/02/23/apple-makes-its-own-app-store-less-convenient-in-eu

TLDR;
The Apple App Store is too easy and intuitive for Apple users, and since 3'rd party stores need to go through more hoops the EU is forcing Apple to implement those same hoops in their UI and processes to level the playing field.

Note: Apple later commented they are keeping the functionality on the back burner incase they need it, but it wasn't supposed to be deployed yet because the EU hasn't ruled on that yet, they will be removing the extra prompts in 17.4 but may need to bring them back later if legally required to.
 
Seem like a simple bug:
Update February 23, 1:36 PM ET In an email to AppleInsider, the company says that the notification is a bug, and will be fixed prior to the March availability of iOS 17.4.

I imagine third party app store will have the same ability to be as trusted.....
 
LukeTbk said:
Seem like a simple bug:
Update February 23, 1:36 PM ET In an email to AppleInsider, the company says that the notification is a bug, and will be fixed prior to the March availability of iOS 17.4.

I imagine third party app store will have the same ability to be as trusted.....
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3'rd parties don't get the ability to be auto-trusted, because that then automatically trusts their contents and that already burned them in Korea 3'rd party stores there were hacked and it started stealing SMS contacts and other info off the phones because they were auto-trusted. So back in Oct of 2023, Apple made them jump through all the same hoops that you have to on MacOS for 3'rd party software which is enter admin credentials to approve the installation then manually give it permission in the security settings for the Camera and microphone, location, stored pictures, etc...
The EU will force Apple to give 3'rd party store access in Europe. However, they are still deliberating on the UI and how the Apple store has an unfair advantage because apps there are automatically trusted where 3'rd parties aren't.
So while deploying it now is "a bug", they need it on the back burner ready to go depending on how the EU decides to swing.
 
Armenius said:
It's clown world when a world government can force a company to neuter its own product within its own ecosystem.
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They can give the same trust level and steps to steam, microsoft and google store than they do apple store, that seem purely a choice.
 
LukeTbk said:
They can give the same trust level and steps to steam, microsoft and google store than they do apple store, that seem purely a choice.
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Say that out loud and listen to how ridiculous it sounds. Why would you ever have the same level of trust with a third party that you have with yourself? It's their platform and they have the most to loose when something goes wrong.
 
Nicklebon said:
Say that out loud and listen to how ridiculous it sounds. Why would you ever have the same level of trust with a third party that you have with yourself? It's their platform and they have the most to loose when something goes wrong.
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Yes they can obviously choose not to do so, it is fully about being forced that my comment was about.

Does your experience from installing a game from steam more cumbersome than from the Windows store on your Windows PC ? And when I install an app from my Apple store on my iOS phone there is already a long list of hoop (they cannot access my mic, location, etc... without express permission) and often ask me permission, here there just seem to be a bug that duplicate it twice (i.e. the news was about a bug, not an actual change).
 
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LukeTbk said:
Yes they can obviously choose not to do so, it is fully about being forced.

Does your experience from installing a game from steam more cumbersome than from the Windows store on your Windows PC ? And when I install an app from my Apple store on my iOS phone there is already a long list of hoop (they cannot access my mic, location, etc... without express permission) and often ask me permission, here there just seem to be a bug that duplicate it twice (i.e. the news was about a bug, not an actual change).
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windows has a store?
 
Randall Stephens said:
interesting, I've never used it. firefox and steam are my only programs on any windows install.
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If you install stuff via winget (command line or UI) maybe you do in the background, which I can imagine you do not if you only install steam on gaming box.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Right, companies should be exempt from any government rules...
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Some regulation is good, but the lack of meaningful privacy regulation is far more important than a store on a company's devices that is no where near monopoly status. Well, the only good phones are apple phones, but still, there's 80% of the market still out there. :drowning:
 
Randall Stephens said:
regulation is far more important than a store on a company's devices that is no where near monopoly status
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Not much thing in history acted more as a duapoly than play store and Apple store on smarthphone, which is different than being an issue for consumer or not, a lot of advantage that come with those monopoly as well (or at least absence of issues).

Take when google store and apple store banned Parler from their store the impact it had on its growth, the law does not target only apple here I presume.
 
LukeTbk said:
Not much thing in history acted more as a duapoly than play store and Apple store on smarthphone, which is different than being an issue for consumer or not, a lot of advantage that come with those monopoly as well (or at least absence of issues).

Take when google store and apple store banned Parler from their store the impact it had on its growth, the law does not target only apple here I presume.
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Play store is android? I dunno, if you don’t want to use those stores you can get another device, hell they even have flip ones. It makes calls, runs angry birds and has calendar thingy, what the hell are people doing on these things anyways?
 
Randall Stephens said:
Some regulation is good, but the lack of meaningful privacy regulation is far more important ...
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See you're letting your feelings of what you want push into this. I was simply saying that governments should be able to pass rules for how companies do business in their territories, whether they are what I feel are good or bad. Now it does get sketchy with the whole internet and what not but that shouldn't be open season for any company's online presence to do what they want.
 
Nicklebon said:
Say that out loud and listen to how ridiculous it sounds. Why would you ever have the same level of trust with a third party that you have with yourself? It's their platform and they have the most to loose when something goes wrong.
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What do you mean by "their platform". You mean their store or iOS? What the EU is pushing Apple to do is a good thing, because Apple has a monopoly. Apple doesn't have a problem with MacOS, so why with iOS? It's called technofeudalism. If Apple were to dominate in the hardware market then who can say no to Apple? The EU is trying to promote competition.

View: https://youtu.be/ynvWbe8XV54?si=tsuoY5zbHAjI6-MP
 
I like the fact that I can search for what I need, hit download, press the right button twice and I am done. Yes, the EU can sometimes have better consumer protection that the USA but that does not mean I want BS in my daily usage.
 
ManofGod said:
I like the fact that I can search for what I need, hit download, press the right button twice and I am done. Yes, the EU can sometimes have better consumer protection that the USA but that does not mean I want BS in my daily usage.
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And why would that be impossible for you to buy a game on the steam store installed on your iPhone if you want (or buying audiobook without a surcharge due to the large in app transaction apple store cut because you downloaded audible from the Amazon store instead) ? There is already a confirm check to install an app even on the iStore like you just said and the app will still need like currently your permission to access anything out of its controlled sandbox.

Maybe I am missing something here.
 
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LukeTbk said:
And why would that be impossible for you to buy a game on the steam store installed on your iPhone if you want ? There is already a confirm check to install an app even on the iStore like you just said and the app will still need like currently your permission to access anything out of its controlled sandbox.

Maybe I am missing something here.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you are right but, for me, I have an iPhone and that is what I use it for and at least for me, it is not my computer. Now, I am sure Gabe from Steam would definitely want it but, that is because he wants the money. :) In the meantime, I would just as well play the XBox Streaming games from the XBox Ultimate gamepass, if I actually remembered that I can. :D
 
ManofGod said:
I like the fact that I can search for what I need, hit download, press the right button twice and I am done. Yes, the EU can sometimes have better consumer protection that the USA but that does not mean I want BS in my daily usage.
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That would likely not change for you. Specifically because Apple will do everything they can to make sure of it.
ManofGod said:
Perhaps you are right but, for me, I have an iPhone and that is what I use it for and at least for me, it is not my computer. Now, I am sure Gabe from Steam would definitely want it but, that is because he wants the money. :) In the meantime, I would just as well play the XBox Streaming games from the XBox Ultimate gamepass, if I actually remembered that I can. :D
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Your iPhone is a computer, just one that's extremely limited in what you can do. You don't have to use the App store on MacOS, Windows, or even Android, so why is your iPhone special?
 
DukenukemX said:
Your iPhone is a computer, just one that's extremely limited in what you can do. You don't have to use the App store on MacOS, Windows, or even Android, so why is your iPhone special?
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I feel that level of limitation open the door for app creator, for some reason my iOS microsoft authentication app does not even work on the Microsoft Windows desktop).

In exchange, that level of rate of return asked by the store does not work for everything (audible or anything that the app pay a lot for the content they want to sell to the user and do not have a near 100% margin by sales like a game they made) , opening this up, could see a level of new thing popping up.

And maybe the security can stay, they seem for the first proposition have a close grip on the third party store
 
"Making it less intuitive" I tell you I've seen some hyperbole in my time on this Earth, but this is up there among the most ridiculous. How would those poor iOS users manage to live their lives if they had to click an additional confirmation before downloading an app. They might even start thinking they have agency over the device they bought, we wouldn't want that now do we?
 
M76 said:
"Making it less intuitive" I tell you I've seen some hyperbole in my time on this Earth, but this is up there among the most ridiculous. How would those poor iOS users manage to live their lives if they had to click an additional confirmation before downloading an app. They might even start thinking they have agency over the device they bought, we wouldn't want that now do we?
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I mean, the internet got forced into asking me if i want to accept cookies all the time and i dont feel my experience improved by doing that. Game and software EULA agreements didnt improve anyones experience either.

I do get what you are saying and im being dramatic as usual, but i also am getting tired of all the dialog boxes and agreements and disclaimers every action is requiring anymore nowadays. I mean i still have to click "are you 21 or older?" when i go to a brewery page, because reasons.
 
Darunion said:
I mean, the internet got forced into asking me if i want to accept cookies all the time and i dont feel my experience improved by doing that. Game and software EULA agreements didnt improve anyones experience either.
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Many pages allow you to reject cookies entirely, and even more allow to reject non-essential ones, I think that is a huge improvement over not having any control at all (outside of 3rd party blockers, which some consider piracy).
The pages that go out of their way to make rejecting cookies hard are deliberately showing a middle finger to you the user. It is not because of the EU, it is because of malicious compliance.

EULAs and agreements are entirely another thing and have nothing to do with EU regulation, they are for giving some semblance of legal grounds for trampling all over your customer rights. They mostly don't hold up in court, but nobody is willing to sue companies over them.
Darunion said:
I do get what you are saying and im being dramatic as usual, but i also am getting tired of all the dialog boxes and agreements and disclaimers every action is requiring anymore nowadays. I mean i still have to click "are you 21 or older?" when i go to a brewery page, because reasons.
Click to expand...
Companies like apple convinced people that they need to give up privacy and ownership if they want convenience. But it's a big fat lie. We could have both if they weren't evil and greedy.
 
DukenukemX said:
Your iPhone is a computer, just one that's extremely limited in what you can do. You don't have to use the App store on MacOS, Windows, or even Android, so why is your iPhone special?
Click to expand...
Phones are special because they have access to our lives in ways most other computing devices do not. For example my laptop never been in a bathroom or locker room but my phone has. As I said earlier Apple has more to loose when it comes to their store. As has been shown already they do a better job curating. When some app goes awry and is busted for whatever most people aren't going to stop and think now where did that app come from. Instead it will be damn that insecure iphone. You sunny blue sky people seem to have either short memories or are willfully ignorant of the past. I prefer my walled Apple garden in the same way I prefer my gated community. Certainly not all riff raff is kept out but most is and most of the time that is good enough.
 
Nicklebon said:
Phones are special because they have access to our lives in ways most other computing devices do not. For example my laptop never been in a bathroom or locker room but my phone has.
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That is exactly why you should be in full control over it and not at the mercy of apple or any other company.
As I've said before they sold you a lie that you can only have security if you give up your control.
Your walled garden is not about keeping anyone out, it is about keeping you inside apple's ecosystem.
 
M76 said:
Your walled garden is not about keeping anyone out, it is about keeping you inside apple's ecosystem.
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A sticky customer is the goal of everyone selling a product. How many android users use gmail? Is that an accident? That said, both can be, and in Apple's case is, true. Which was exactly my expectation when I bought in. I've had an android phone and I still own an android tablet though these days it really is a fixed function device. Both come up short when compared to Apple equivalents that replaced them. Apple's products work well and work as expected. I half expect that's the problem with some of you. Misery loves company. You folks have gear that has great specs on paper but doesn't work well as a system and it results in poor ux. When you see other folks not having the same sad ux you want to bring them down to make yourselves feel better. If you want android buy it and be happy. Those of us that are buying Apple are buying the Apple experience, ecosystem and all with our eyes wide open. Let it go.
 
I think that a bit of semantic, between keeping things out or you inside.

The goals are to create an environment where customer is confident to spend and content producer confident to produce (on those platform, piracy was way less common than on desktop where you better give for free and monetize it without charging even).

Does the bank-government end up doing those apps that I can use without even entering a password, does not require 2 way validation like their desktop version, etc..., maybe/maybe not....

I am not sure I want my parents particularly in full control over their device, much prefer them to be at the mercy of a company like Apple in a lot of ways.
 
Nicklebon said:
Phones are special because they have access to our lives in ways most other computing devices do not. For example my laptop never been in a bathroom or locker room but my phone has.
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This is also why I don't use my phone for anything bank account or personal information related. You will lose your phone and it will be found by someone else. I don't even password lock my phone because you now have a tech savvy persons phone. I'd rather they use the phone and keep it around so at least I can track my phone and retrieve it. If you think your iPhone is safe from people stealing your information, there's been low tech ways around this. It's not like bank account and personal information isn't stored on your MacOS laptop, so why does Apple allow side loading there?

View: https://youtu.be/gi96HKr2vo8?si=-qxXeBWd_Xw-PlZk
As I said earlier Apple has more to loose when it comes to their store. As has been shown already they do a better job curating. When some app goes awry and is busted for whatever most people aren't going to stop and think now where did that app come from.
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Do you have that problem on MacOS? You can't praise Apple for their curating when they don't do the same on MacOS. Again, it's not like you don't have personal information on MacOS that you don't want bad actors getting into. You know what you didn't have on MacOS? A zero-click, zero-day iMessage vulnerability. How come MacOS didn't have this problem with iMessage?
Instead it will be damn that insecure iphone. You sunny blue sky people seem to have either short memories or are willfully ignorant of the past. I prefer my walled Apple garden in the same way I prefer my gated community. Certainly not all riff raff is kept out but most is and most of the time that is good enough.
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Your gated community is not a business, nor is it a phone. The iPhone itself is a store that only Apple is allowed to sell products. That's anti-competitive and technofeudalism. You should be given the choice whether you want to download your apps through Apple or through some other competing store. Anything you say that makes the iPhone vulnerable is hypocritical since again MacOS does allow sideloading and last I heard doesn't have security issues. By allowing sideloading you can also avoid Apple tracking you. As much as you trust Apple... you shouldn't.
 
DukenukemX said:
Do you have that problem on MacOS?
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Don't own or use Mac. As far as what I do on the phone, more to point don't do, it's safe to say I am likely in the <1% group. Again, people that buy Apple buy it with their eyes open. Get the fuck over it and go cuddle your android device you love so much.
 
Armenius said:
It's clown world when a world government can force a company to neuter its own product within its own ecosystem.
Click to expand...
This particular case with the app store is a head scratcher and seems like overreach, but to the EU's credit, the list of actions against MS, Google, Apple, etc that actually made these megacorps bend into slightly more consumer friendly positions is pretty long.
 
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DPI said:
This particular case with the app store is a head scratcher and seems like overreach
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I feel it is where (if one is to do anything) it is the most logical to act.

The 2 giant blocking Parler at the same time, less of an issue if there is popular third party store, charging a giant amount for in app transaction for content that cost a lot to buy for the adds from corporation that could run and pay for the whole show (selling ibooks, music, movies not made by them, etc...).

Trying to force competition at the OS level instead of forcing price on their app store or forcing them to accept non store app too easily security wise
 
DPI said:
This particular case with the app store is a head scratcher and seems like overreach, but to the EU's credit, the list of actions against MS, Google, Apple, etc that actually made these megacorps bend into slightly more consumer friendly positions is pretty long.
Click to expand...
How's it a head scratcher? EU wants more competition and is forcing Apple to allow other sources of selling and distributing apps.
 
Armenius said:
It's clown world when a world government can force a company to neuter its own product within its own ecosystem.
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Why is it a clown world that they want the company abusing its monopoly to allow some competition?

Imagine if MS was locking down your PC and wouldn't allow you to install software from anywhere but the MS store? Would you consider it a good thing? "Oh but that's different" Is it, really? I don't think so. A smartphone is just a portable computer, so much so that many people don't even use a PC anymore they just use their smartphone for everything that they used to do on PC.
 
DukenukemX said:
How's it a head scratcher? EU wants more competition and is forcing Apple to allow other sources of selling and distributing apps.
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The head-scratcher is will the EU force Apple to treat their own store as a non-trusted source and require them to have all the same prompts as 3'rd parties which by their very nature can not be implicitly trusted.
 
Lakados said:
The head-scratcher is will the EU force Apple to treat their own store as a non-trusted source and require them to have all the same prompts as 3'rd parties which by their very nature can not be implicitly trusted.
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You shouldn't trust any company that wants to sell you stuff implicitly. When it comes to abusing customer trust apple is probably one of the worst.
 
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