Apple Seems to Have Forgotten about the Whole “It Just Works” Thing

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    And yet macOS High Sierra still looks and behaves just like OSX Leopard. This is something MS need to learn, change for the hell of it is just not necessary - And active tiles suck.

    In terms of crashing, both macOS and Windows have issues in this regard, in fact I'd have to say less so in relation to macOS assuming your running the supported version of the OS and not the beta (High Sierra is beta) as Mac have complete control over the hardware the OS is run on and doesn't have to support a plethora of hardware combinations.
     
  2. It just sucks. And costs too much. But, yeah, briefly, you will feel superior while at Starbucks.
     
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  3. mufcfan

    mufcfan Limp Gawd

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    When Windows stayed the same a lot of people complained that it is stale and 'Where is the innovation?'. Since it was changed a lot of people complained about whichever different direction was taken with the UI. Either because elements people earlier complained about missing have been added, something worked differently than in another OS or something labelled stale was changed or removed.
    I don't know about other companies, but the one I work at would sure as hell wouldn't keep buying Windows if we had trouble getting work done on it. And no, it has no volume contract with MS even though our plant has about 2k employees.
    As long as Apple's userbase consists mainly of people who buy their products because 'Apple!', they will not have to face the same kind of criticism MS gets who has a much more diverse userbase.

    For crashes:
    In our office everyone uses Win7 or Win10 on a wide range of PCs. The ones who get crashes are the ones with the shittiest configurations and the ones who lack the understanding of not being able to pack a submarine into a lunchbox.
    There would be something definitely wrong with the world, if their computers did not crash from time to time.
     
  4. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Lol, I just pull out my Chromebook, knowing I'm able to do all the stuff everyone in Starbucks is doing but for a 5th of the price.:D*

    Means I can buy two coffees rather than nursing one for 4 hours and still afford to have broadband at home too.






    *Actually I would never do that as we call those people in Starbucks "Laptop wankers"
     
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  5. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    I use the Windows VM only when I need some application that works only on Windows. And that is very rarely indeed.

    I've been using OSX for many years now and I haven't experienced any loss of network or other problems. Lately there have been some minor bugs but that's because I run the developer beta versions.
     
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  6. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    As someone that works away from tightly controlled corporate environments - I never once heard the masses running Windows, 90% of which struggle to even use a PC, state 'where is the innovation'.

    What you use in your workplace is irrelevant. Fact is that macOS is a clean, tidy 'desktop' OS - In comparison, Windows is a duplo inspired mishmash of touch and desktop UI's doubling up on features for each UI confusing the shit out of everyone.

    We don't need 'innovation'. What we need is a tidy, organized desktop OS that doesn't shit itself with each major update - Windows 2000 was the pinnacle of the Windows UI.
     
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  7. SomeoneElse

    SomeoneElse [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've been saying this for years.....Apple is the best marketing company on the planet......
     
  8. Budzman

    Budzman [H]ard|Gawd

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    Don't have this problem and never will.
     
  9. bugleyman

    bugleyman [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've never understood why someone wanting a "clean, tidy desktop OS" wouldn't just run Linux.

    Seriously. Gamer? Get Windows. Otherwise, just install Linux. I have no idea why MacOS would even be an option...unless you like paying way too much for hardware.
     
  10. ruffbytes

    ruffbytes Limp Gawd

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    Someone who still types M$ is about 40 now.
     
  11. katanaD

    katanaD [H]ard|Gawd

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    I remember this ad saying



    whenever anyone would tell me how great their mac is compared to.. anything I would remind them of that phrase

    LOL
     
  12. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    My schematic capture and PCB layout software is Windows, so I do design work in the Windows VM. I actually run my audio software in MacOS (even though it would work in either). It's nice though because I copied that same VM to a few different host machines. I can work on the same stuff at work, while mobile on the MBP, or at home on my desktop. Pretty seamless.
     
  13. harbingerofdoom

    harbingerofdoom Gawd

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    only old farts (like me) still call it M$ or microshaft or some variation on those.

    now get offa mah lawn:p
     
  14. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I always preferred MicroSchwank. Not sure how that one came about, but it has a nice ring to it. :D
     
  15. Blown 89

    Blown 89 2[H]4U

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    That was just a marketing slogan that was never true in the first place. Someone needs to pass that memo on to the fan base that still touts that phrase every chance they get.
     
  16. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Funny enough, I haven't heard anyone that I know with an Apple product either showing it off, touting anything, or otherwise behaving Appleboyish in a long long time. Most of them never did, but then they're kind of like me where tech is concerned. However, some of the outliers, and maybe work-acquaintances that would have been that way, aren't either these days. Either they've all just calmed down a bit, grew up a bit, or were otherwise disillusioned. The main people that I know that still use their products, including my own reasoning, is that the MBPs are built like tanks. I haven't seen another laptop that's still somewhat portable and svelte (if I may be so bold) that will still take heavy travel and occasional abuse without looking or behaving like it has. After installing an SSD in mine, the only moving part still left is the cooling fan. Otherwise, there's not too much that I would say is any different than most laptops out there. I got mine for free, but I'd probably buy another if this one dies or keeps running until it's totally obsolete. It's i7 based with 16GB of RAM, so it's still trucking along pretty well, runs my VMs, and fits in a small backpack or laptop bag. Not bad. I wouldn't go out and rabidly evangelize it though. :D
     
  17. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ard as it Gets

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    This has been my experience as well. In a multi-user environment, I've often had more trouble and more pissed off users on the Mac side. It isn't the uber platform people think it is. The flaws are different, but there are as many, if not more of them than on the Windows side. That said, MS's direction the last several years with it's interface has been utterly absurd. Ideas like "Lets design an interface around touch screens and then use that interface on our server products. Because, servers alwasys have touch screens right?"

    I agree with the above comment about making changes for the sake of making them isn't a good idea. Microsoft has reinvented things that worked well and made those things not work just to make the OS different than the last version. Some things like changing your resolution is harder than it used to be or harder than it needs to be. Why? Who the fuck knows?
     
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  18. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    In my experience the days of the 'techno savvy hipster' Apple user are over.

    Nowadays Mums and Dad's tend to be the definition of Apple users.
     
  19. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    And people who like milled aluminum. I have to say I'm a sucker for it. All of the front panels for the gear I design are done with milled, anodized aluminum. There are other aluminum laptops out there, but none of them quite feel as solid, and a lot of them lack the milled chunky aspect. Might be silly to some people, but there you are. :D I have several other laptops readily available at home. Some are even higher specced than my MBP. It just feels the best, and has the best portability/durability out of them all. If it had a slight bump in CPU, and a non-Intel GPU, it would be hands-down better, but as it is, it's easily about on par all things considered.
     
  20. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yeah, "Whats a computer?". The device you're holding stupid kid! Draw more grasshoppers!
     
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  21. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm actually over the milled aluminum look, I personally think the iMac looks really dated. Aluminum is cold and uninspiring, I think it's time Apple took on a new look that didn't look like a trash can.
     
  22. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    I find it a better ad that some Hollywood wannabe using 3D Paint to do anything useful.
     
  23. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Aluminum is timeless. Of course it looks cold. It's a piece of technology. What else is there? You have metal, plastics, stone, and wood for materials. "Introducing the new Macbook Pro Mahogany Edition!!!" :p

    Also introducing the iPhone Y Granite Edition!


    What would actually be cool is if you could get the aluminum in any standard anodizing dye color. So a nice dark blue for example.

    Edit: For example, here's a blue anodized panel I had done for one of my synths. I'd totally take a laptop done in this. It's a matte finish, but I'd also take a glossy anodize as well. (though that would show scratches more)

    BlueSynth.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  24. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    That picture is arousing! Love it my friend. I've always been fascinated with digital music and that analogue synth (I assume?) looks awesome.
     
  25. BB Gun

    BB Gun [H]ard|Gawd

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    And the PCs I have built last 5,6 and more years without issues through several OS and video upgrades. So can I take my anecdotal evidence and say your anecdotal evidence about MS is wrong, and therefore your assertions about apple suspect?

    Smh....
     
  26. NIZMOZ

    NIZMOZ [H]ard|Gawd

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    Mostly basic stuff. Email, browsing. One is used to play a few basic games.
     
  27. NIZMOZ

    NIZMOZ [H]ard|Gawd

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    You don't have dumb users screwing Windows up. I am not talking about the hardware, I am talking about the O/S.

    Like, oh, if you search on Yahoo and all the links come up, I figured all those are safe. Right....

    No, actually you are wrong and prove you don't have the experience I do. It has got nothing to do with hardware and a lot of how the users work on the machines and know how to use them. When you have users that are not computer illiterate, you are going to have a lot of issues. But they do well on MACs as they are more forgiving.
     
  28. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Except there's no doubting that malware and virus infections make Windows a cesspool and do more damage to the underlying OS. While Apple isn't perfect in this regard either, it's 90% better than any Microsoft OS out there.

    This is where you mention locked down and tightly controlled corporate environments, totally misrepresenting the real world situation that is Windows. Andedotal evidence my bunghole! There's a plethora of information out there regarding Windows and infections that don't affect any other OS anywhere near as bad as Windows.
     
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  29. TwistedAegis

    TwistedAegis [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I have no idea what that is, or what it does, but it looks awesome and I want one. (Is that the nuclear football?)
     
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  30. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    +1. (y)
     
  31. ewb302

    ewb302 Gawd

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    Been using PC's since the 80's. Been using Macs since about 2005. Both have similar issues. Hardware failures, software compatibility issues, crashes, buggy updates. They all suck equally. The trick Apple has pulled is marketing. They have perpetuated the concept of "just works" ever since the early days of marketing. People that have invested lots of money into a platform make sure they believe what the marketing told them.
     
  32. Youn

    Youn [H]ardness Supreme

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  33. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Thanks!!

    Patchable analog synthesizer.

    That's my side-hobby-job thing. I design PCBs for DIY guys, and build custom synths. Mostly anlalog modular or panelized ones like that blue one. I've got some digital CPLD and FPGA based ideas too, but only just bought development tools for that, and haven't really dived in yet.

    There are some other pics here:

    http://www.strohmodular.net/
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  34. BB Gun

    BB Gun [H]ard|Gawd

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    So it now devolves into a malware/user issue, and OS stability or hardware. OK. Moving target commencing to move!
     
  35. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Do you want me to discuss the countless issues with the latest update? Does that fit your profile of 'stability'?

    It's OK to be critical of Windows/Windows 10 where it's warranted, in actual fact it's literally the only way the consumer can force change for the better. The problem people like yourself can't comprehend is that 9 times out of 10 it is warranted, especially when it comes to Windows 10.

    Talking as a Windows 10 and a macOS user.
     
  36. mufcfan

    mufcfan Limp Gawd

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    That part was generally about people complaining about Windows. Like articles on websites and people on forums like this.
    A lot of people complained about whichever feature missing from Windows which they liked in MacOS, Ubuntu, etc. How Windows is missing innovation and it is boring compared to those other shiny ones.
    Then other people complained how those features were copied from others when Windows got them.

    The UI can be confusing, but nothing that can't be solved/learned in a few short seconds. Though I hate those elements where not all the possibilities are apparent. Unfortunately, all major OS (Android, Windows, iOS, etc.) has some of those.
    I don't know about the 'shit itself with each major update' part. Never seen or heard of a person at work or home who actually had an issue with any update since the XP days.
    However, a colleague's iPhone comes to mind, which did some pretty weird stuff after a major version upgrade about 3 years ago (not loading settings screens, not changing options, apps crashing). That was fixed by a hotfix of course.

    With the news that Apple is trying to go down the same road MS is already on. I wonder what will be the Apple users' opinion of this in 6-12 months...
    Will they say that Apple is copying MS or will they say that Apple is doing it sooo much better than MS, possibly that Steve Jobs already said/thought of that way before the big bang even occured?
     
  37. BB Gun

    BB Gun [H]ard|Gawd

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    Thank you for proving my point about my anecdotal evidence (I mean, after all, *I* haven't had any issues with win10...) meaning absolute shit for discussions like these.

    BB
     
  38. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    My statements are based on personal observation of a wide and varied sample group outside of tightly controlled corporate environments.

    Hell, just a simple Google search of various terms related to the topic highlights the numerous issues with the creators update:

    Windows:

    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...FNoyl8AWzr6XICg&start=0&sa=N&biw=1920&bih=928

    That's over ten pages of specific issues related to the Creators Update - Bearing in mind that as a tech I've experienced almost every one of those issues at least once.

    macOS:

    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...eDYu68QWmq5mACg&start=0&sa=N&biw=1920&bih=928

    A mix of highlighted and fairly isolated issues, mostly articles on forthcoming feature improvements and expected software compatibility issues (I swear this is deliberate on behalf of Apple).

    This is where you state "But Windows and It's Popularity!" - The issue with this statement is that both use differing 'branches' of OS deployment in order to test for stability and functionality. Therefore, technically speaking MS should have more people running the Insider build and testing their software due to it's popularity, therefore technically speaking there should be far less issues with MS products than other operating systems. Problem is, in the real world there most certainly is not. In fact it's a problem that's become undoubtedly worse with Microsoft adopting the rolling release model of deployment instead of thorough in house testing as the NT kernel just isn't suited to a rolling release model.

    Claiming Windows 10 doesn't have issues with less in the way of supporting evidence is more anecdotal as claiming that it does.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2017
  39. NIZMOZ

    NIZMOZ [H]ard|Gawd

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    Gotta love the buggy windows 10 releases that keep coming out....

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/26/stop_downloading_win10_creators_update/
    Don't install our buggy Windows 10 Creators Update, begs Microsoft

    https://www.computerworld.com/artic...1709-and-other-patch-tuesday-shenanigans.html

    Microsoft forces Win10 1703 customers onto 1709, and other Patch Tuesday shenanigans
     
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  40. BB Gun

    BB Gun [H]ard|Gawd

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    This is funny as hell, I merely point out that using anecdotal evidence to prove a point is pretty damned silly, the understood corollary being of course win10 has issues. Duh.

    By the same token using one's own anecdotal evidence as proof that Mac's just work is also silly. They may work better, but they are not issue free.

    The vitriolic reactions are priceless.