Apple Seems to Have Forgotten about the Whole “It Just Works” Thing

Very true on the updating portion. Even OS updates go smoother on Mac OS X. As for mac OS being better thats subjective, I find the more you use mac OS for stuff other than home use then you notice even more problems/crashes (Enterprise). Apple did not know better they just wanted more $$$ (buy multiple devices (phone, tablet, laptop, watch). Microsoft took a chance (it failed pretty bad because of Microsoft employees who thought they knew better (Who the hell thinks hiding the start button would be a good thing that has been there over 20+ years?)) to make one UI for all devices. If you look features from iOS have been integrated into macOS such as Siri. Someday I am sure Apple will just kill off the macOS and make you run iOS.

And yet macOS High Sierra still looks and behaves just like OSX Leopard. This is something MS need to learn, change for the hell of it is just not necessary - And active tiles suck.

In terms of crashing, both macOS and Windows have issues in this regard, in fact I'd have to say less so in relation to macOS assuming your running the supported version of the OS and not the beta (High Sierra is beta) as Mac have complete control over the hardware the OS is run on and doesn't have to support a plethora of hardware combinations.
 
It just sucks. And costs too much. But, yeah, briefly, you will feel superior while at Starbucks.
 
And yet macOS High Sierra still looks and behaves just like OSX Leopard. This is something MS need to learn, change for the hell of it is just not necessary - And active tiles suck.

In terms of crashing, both macOS and Windows have issues in this regard, in fact I'd have to say less so in relation to macOS assuming your running the supported version of the OS and not the beta (High Sierra is beta) as Mac have complete control over the hardware the OS is run on and doesn't have to support a plethora of hardware combinations.

When Windows stayed the same a lot of people complained that it is stale and 'Where is the innovation?'. Since it was changed a lot of people complained about whichever different direction was taken with the UI. Either because elements people earlier complained about missing have been added, something worked differently than in another OS or something labelled stale was changed or removed.
I don't know about other companies, but the one I work at would sure as hell wouldn't keep buying Windows if we had trouble getting work done on it. And no, it has no volume contract with MS even though our plant has about 2k employees.
As long as Apple's userbase consists mainly of people who buy their products because 'Apple!', they will not have to face the same kind of criticism MS gets who has a much more diverse userbase.

For crashes:
In our office everyone uses Win7 or Win10 on a wide range of PCs. The ones who get crashes are the ones with the shittiest configurations and the ones who lack the understanding of not being able to pack a submarine into a lunchbox.
There would be something definitely wrong with the world, if their computers did not crash from time to time.
 
It just sucks. And costs too much. But, yeah, briefly, you will feel superior while at Starbucks.


Lol, I just pull out my Chromebook, knowing I'm able to do all the stuff everyone in Starbucks is doing but for a 5th of the price.:D*

Means I can buy two coffees rather than nursing one for 4 hours and still afford to have broadband at home too.






*Actually I would never do that as we call those people in Starbucks "Laptop wankers"
 
No, no, no, they changed that line years ago. Someone's been omitting the rest of the phrase. "...you over."

That said my MBP just works. My Windows VM sees more use than the native OS though...

I use the Windows VM only when I need some application that works only on Windows. And that is very rarely indeed.

I've been using OSX for many years now and I haven't experienced any loss of network or other problems. Lately there have been some minor bugs but that's because I run the developer beta versions.
 
When Windows stayed the same a lot of people complained that it is stale and 'Where is the innovation?'. Since it was changed a lot of people complained about whichever different direction was taken with the UI. Either because elements people earlier complained about missing have been added, something worked differently than in another OS or something labelled stale was changed or removed.
I don't know about other companies, but the one I work at would sure as hell wouldn't keep buying Windows if we had trouble getting work done on it. And no, it has no volume contract with MS even though our plant has about 2k employees.
As long as Apple's userbase consists mainly of people who buy their products because 'Apple!', they will not have to face the same kind of criticism MS gets who has a much more diverse userbase.

For crashes:
In our office everyone uses Win7 or Win10 on a wide range of PCs. The ones who get crashes are the ones with the shittiest configurations and the ones who lack the understanding of not being able to pack a submarine into a lunchbox.
There would be something definitely wrong with the world, if their computers did not crash from time to time.

As someone that works away from tightly controlled corporate environments - I never once heard the masses running Windows, 90% of which struggle to even use a PC, state 'where is the innovation'.

What you use in your workplace is irrelevant. Fact is that macOS is a clean, tidy 'desktop' OS - In comparison, Windows is a duplo inspired mishmash of touch and desktop UI's doubling up on features for each UI confusing the shit out of everyone.

We don't need 'innovation'. What we need is a tidy, organized desktop OS that doesn't shit itself with each major update - Windows 2000 was the pinnacle of the Windows UI.
 
I've been saying this for years.....Apple is the best marketing company on the planet......
 
I've never understood why someone wanting a "clean, tidy desktop OS" wouldn't just run Linux.

Seriously. Gamer? Get Windows. Otherwise, just install Linux. I have no idea why MacOS would even be an option...unless you like paying way too much for hardware.
 
I remember this ad saying



whenever anyone would tell me how great their mac is compared to.. anything I would remind them of that phrase

LOL
 
I use the Windows VM only when I need some application that works only on Windows. And that is very rarely indeed.

I've been using OSX for many years now and I haven't experienced any loss of network or other problems. Lately there have been some minor bugs but that's because I run the developer beta versions.

My schematic capture and PCB layout software is Windows, so I do design work in the Windows VM. I actually run my audio software in MacOS (even though it would work in either). It's nice though because I copied that same VM to a few different host machines. I can work on the same stuff at work, while mobile on the MBP, or at home on my desktop. Pretty seamless.
 
That was just a marketing slogan that was never true in the first place. Someone needs to pass that memo on to the fan base that still touts that phrase every chance they get.
 
That was just a marketing slogan that was never true in the first place. Someone needs to pass that memo on to the fan base that still touts that phrase every chance they get.

Funny enough, I haven't heard anyone that I know with an Apple product either showing it off, touting anything, or otherwise behaving Appleboyish in a long long time. Most of them never did, but then they're kind of like me where tech is concerned. However, some of the outliers, and maybe work-acquaintances that would have been that way, aren't either these days. Either they've all just calmed down a bit, grew up a bit, or were otherwise disillusioned. The main people that I know that still use their products, including my own reasoning, is that the MBPs are built like tanks. I haven't seen another laptop that's still somewhat portable and svelte (if I may be so bold) that will still take heavy travel and occasional abuse without looking or behaving like it has. After installing an SSD in mine, the only moving part still left is the cooling fan. Otherwise, there's not too much that I would say is any different than most laptops out there. I got mine for free, but I'd probably buy another if this one dies or keeps running until it's totally obsolete. It's i7 based with 16GB of RAM, so it's still trucking along pretty well, runs my VMs, and fits in a small backpack or laptop bag. Not bad. I wouldn't go out and rabidly evangelize it though. :D
 
It has never "just worked". Every Mac customer that ever came into my shop to fix their obviously-not-just-working Mac has used some variation of this phrase and I've always had a good laugh about it. More reliable than the average Windows box, sure. Just working? Nope.

This has been my experience as well. In a multi-user environment, I've often had more trouble and more pissed off users on the Mac side. It isn't the uber platform people think it is. The flaws are different, but there are as many, if not more of them than on the Windows side. That said, MS's direction the last several years with it's interface has been utterly absurd. Ideas like "Lets design an interface around touch screens and then use that interface on our server products. Because, servers alwasys have touch screens right?"

I agree with the above comment about making changes for the sake of making them isn't a good idea. Microsoft has reinvented things that worked well and made those things not work just to make the OS different than the last version. Some things like changing your resolution is harder than it used to be or harder than it needs to be. Why? Who the fuck knows?
 
In my experience the days of the 'techno savvy hipster' Apple user are over.

Nowadays Mums and Dad's tend to be the definition of Apple users.
 
In my experience the days of the 'techno savvy hipster' Apple user are over.

Nowadays Mums and Dad's tend to be the definition of Apple users.

And people who like milled aluminum. I have to say I'm a sucker for it. All of the front panels for the gear I design are done with milled, anodized aluminum. There are other aluminum laptops out there, but none of them quite feel as solid, and a lot of them lack the milled chunky aspect. Might be silly to some people, but there you are. :D I have several other laptops readily available at home. Some are even higher specced than my MBP. It just feels the best, and has the best portability/durability out of them all. If it had a slight bump in CPU, and a non-Intel GPU, it would be hands-down better, but as it is, it's easily about on par all things considered.
 
And people who like milled aluminum. I have to say I'm a sucker for it. All of the front panels for the gear I design are done with milled, anodized aluminum. There are other aluminum laptops out there, but none of them quite feel as solid, and a lot of them lack the milled chunky aspect. Might be silly to some people, but there you are. :D I have several other laptops readily available at home. Some are even higher specced than my MBP. It just feels the best, and has the best portability/durability out of them all. If it had a slight bump in CPU, and a non-Intel GPU, it would be hands-down better, but as it is, it's easily about on par all things considered.

I'm actually over the milled aluminum look, I personally think the iMac looks really dated. Aluminum is cold and uninspiring, I think it's time Apple took on a new look that didn't look like a trash can.
 
I'm actually over the milled aluminum look, I personally think the iMac looks really dated. Aluminum is cold and uninspiring, I think it's time Apple took on a new look that didn't look like a trash can.

Aluminum is timeless. Of course it looks cold. It's a piece of technology. What else is there? You have metal, plastics, stone, and wood for materials. "Introducing the new Macbook Pro Mahogany Edition!!!" :p

Also introducing the iPhone Y Granite Edition!


What would actually be cool is if you could get the aluminum in any standard anodizing dye color. So a nice dark blue for example.

Edit: For example, here's a blue anodized panel I had done for one of my synths. I'd totally take a laptop done in this. It's a matte finish, but I'd also take a glossy anodize as well. (though that would show scratches more)

BlueSynth.jpg
 
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Aluminum is timeless. Of course it looks cold. It's a piece of technology. What else is there? You have metal, plastics, stone, and wood for materials. "Introducing the new Macbook Pro Mahogany Edition!!!" :p

Also introducing the iPhone Y Granite Edition!


What would actually be cool is if you could get the aluminum in any standard anodizing dye color. So a nice dark blue for example.

Edit: For example, here's a blue anodized panel I had done for one of my synths. I'd totally take a laptop done in this. It's a matte finish, but I'd also take a glossy anodize as well. (though that would show scratches more)

View attachment 47125

That picture is arousing! Love it my friend. I've always been fascinated with digital music and that analogue synth (I assume?) looks awesome.
 
They do just work. We have a 2009 MAC Mini that is still going well (SSD and memory upgrade). We have another 2016 IMAC 21.5, no issues. And 4 iPhones, 2 iPads. Let me put it this way. Before the MACs they had Windows PCs, and they ALWAYS had issues. I got sick of having to fix something with them every week. On the MACs, I can't think of the last time I had to fix anything on them. The iPhones (from Android), same thing.

I'm the only one that has a Windows 10 PC, as it's my gaming rig, and it's my field I work in for the last 25 years of IT. I don't want to fix issues when I get home with the other family machines, so the MACs are great.

And the PCs I have built last 5,6 and more years without issues through several OS and video upgrades. So can I take my anecdotal evidence and say your anecdotal evidence about MS is wrong, and therefore your assertions about apple suspect?

Smh....
 
Do they do much with the macs?
I find PCs need more attention because people try to do a lot more with them.

Mostly basic stuff. Email, browsing. One is used to play a few basic games.
 
And the PCs I have built last 5,6 and more years without issues through several OS and video upgrades. So can I take my anecdotal evidence and say your anecdotal evidence about MS is wrong, and therefore your assertions about apple suspect?

Smh....

You don't have dumb users screwing Windows up. I am not talking about the hardware, I am talking about the O/S.

Like, oh, if you search on Yahoo and all the links come up, I figured all those are safe. Right....

No, actually you are wrong and prove you don't have the experience I do. It has got nothing to do with hardware and a lot of how the users work on the machines and know how to use them. When you have users that are not computer illiterate, you are going to have a lot of issues. But they do well on MACs as they are more forgiving.
 
And the PCs I have built last 5,6 and more years without issues through several OS and video upgrades. So can I take my anecdotal evidence and say your anecdotal evidence about MS is wrong, and therefore your assertions about apple suspect?

Smh....

Except there's no doubting that malware and virus infections make Windows a cesspool and do more damage to the underlying OS. While Apple isn't perfect in this regard either, it's 90% better than any Microsoft OS out there.

This is where you mention locked down and tightly controlled corporate environments, totally misrepresenting the real world situation that is Windows. Andedotal evidence my bunghole! There's a plethora of information out there regarding Windows and infections that don't affect any other OS anywhere near as bad as Windows.
 
Edit: For example, here's a blue anodized panel I had done for one of my synths. I'd totally take a laptop done in this. It's a matte finish, but I'd also take a glossy anodize as well. (though that would show scratches more)

View attachment 47125

I have no idea what that is, or what it does, but it looks awesome and I want one. (Is that the nuclear football?)
 
Been using PC's since the 80's. Been using Macs since about 2005. Both have similar issues. Hardware failures, software compatibility issues, crashes, buggy updates. They all suck equally. The trick Apple has pulled is marketing. They have perpetuated the concept of "just works" ever since the early days of marketing. People that have invested lots of money into a platform make sure they believe what the marketing told them.
 
That picture is arousing! Love it my friend. I've always been fascinated with digital music and that analogue synth (I assume?) looks awesome.

I have no idea what that is, or what it does, but it looks awesome and I want one. (Is that the nuclear football?)

Thanks!!

Patchable analog synthesizer.

That's my side-hobby-job thing. I design PCBs for DIY guys, and build custom synths. Mostly anlalog modular or panelized ones like that blue one. I've got some digital CPLD and FPGA based ideas too, but only just bought development tools for that, and haven't really dived in yet.

There are some other pics here:

http://www.strohmodular.net/
 
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You don't have dumb users screwing Windows up. I am not talking about the hardware, I am talking about the O/S.

Like, oh, if you search on Yahoo and all the links come up, I figured all those are safe. Right....

No, actually you are wrong and prove you don't have the experience I do. It has got nothing to do with hardware and a lot of how the users work on the machines and know how to use them. When you have users that are not computer illiterate, you are going to have a lot of issues. But they do well on MACs as they are more forgiving.

Except there's no doubting that malware and virus infections make Windows a cesspool and do more damage to the underlying OS. While Apple isn't perfect in this regard either, it's 90% better than any Microsoft OS out there.

This is where you mention locked down and tightly controlled corporate environments, totally misrepresenting the real world situation that is Windows. Andedotal evidence my bunghole! There's a plethora of information out there regarding Windows and infections that don't affect any other OS anywhere near as bad as Windows.

So it now devolves into a malware/user issue, and OS stability or hardware. OK. Moving target commencing to move!
 
So it now devolves into a malware/user issue, and OS stability or hardware. OK. Moving target commencing to move!

Do you want me to discuss the countless issues with the latest update? Does that fit your profile of 'stability'?

It's OK to be critical of Windows/Windows 10 where it's warranted, in actual fact it's literally the only way the consumer can force change for the better. The problem people like yourself can't comprehend is that 9 times out of 10 it is warranted, especially when it comes to Windows 10.

Talking as a Windows 10 and a macOS user.
 
As someone that works away from tightly controlled corporate environments - I never once heard the masses running Windows, 90% of which struggle to even use a PC, state 'where is the innovation'.

What you use in your workplace is irrelevant. Fact is that macOS is a clean, tidy 'desktop' OS - In comparison, Windows is a duplo inspired mishmash of touch and desktop UI's doubling up on features for each UI confusing the shit out of everyone.

We don't need 'innovation'. What we need is a tidy, organized desktop OS that doesn't shit itself with each major update - Windows 2000 was the pinnacle of the Windows UI.

That part was generally about people complaining about Windows. Like articles on websites and people on forums like this.
A lot of people complained about whichever feature missing from Windows which they liked in MacOS, Ubuntu, etc. How Windows is missing innovation and it is boring compared to those other shiny ones.
Then other people complained how those features were copied from others when Windows got them.

The UI can be confusing, but nothing that can't be solved/learned in a few short seconds. Though I hate those elements where not all the possibilities are apparent. Unfortunately, all major OS (Android, Windows, iOS, etc.) has some of those.
I don't know about the 'shit itself with each major update' part. Never seen or heard of a person at work or home who actually had an issue with any update since the XP days.
However, a colleague's iPhone comes to mind, which did some pretty weird stuff after a major version upgrade about 3 years ago (not loading settings screens, not changing options, apps crashing). That was fixed by a hotfix of course.

With the news that Apple is trying to go down the same road MS is already on. I wonder what will be the Apple users' opinion of this in 6-12 months...
Will they say that Apple is copying MS or will they say that Apple is doing it sooo much better than MS, possibly that Steve Jobs already said/thought of that way before the big bang even occured?
 
Do you want me to discuss the countless issues with the latest update? Does that fit your profile of 'stability'?

It's OK to be critical of Windows/Windows 10 where it's warranted, in actual fact it's literally the only way the consumer can force change for the better. The problem people like yourself can't comprehend is that 9 times out of 10 it is warranted, especially when it comes to Windows 10.

Talking as a Windows 10 and a macOS user.

And the PCs I have built last 5,6 and more years without issues through several OS and video upgrades. So can I take my anecdotal evidence and say your anecdotal evidence about MS is wrong, and therefore your assertions about apple suspect?

Smh....

Thank you for proving my point about my anecdotal evidence (I mean, after all, *I* haven't had any issues with win10...) meaning absolute shit for discussions like these.

BB
 
Thank you for proving my point about my anecdotal evidence (I mean, after all, *I* haven't had any issues with win10...) meaning absolute shit for discussions like these.

BB

My statements are based on personal observation of a wide and varied sample group outside of tightly controlled corporate environments.

Hell, just a simple Google search of various terms related to the topic highlights the numerous issues with the creators update:

Windows:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...FNoyl8AWzr6XICg&start=0&sa=N&biw=1920&bih=928

That's over ten pages of specific issues related to the Creators Update - Bearing in mind that as a tech I've experienced almost every one of those issues at least once.

macOS:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...eDYu68QWmq5mACg&start=0&sa=N&biw=1920&bih=928

A mix of highlighted and fairly isolated issues, mostly articles on forthcoming feature improvements and expected software compatibility issues (I swear this is deliberate on behalf of Apple).

This is where you state "But Windows and It's Popularity!" - The issue with this statement is that both use differing 'branches' of OS deployment in order to test for stability and functionality. Therefore, technically speaking MS should have more people running the Insider build and testing their software due to it's popularity, therefore technically speaking there should be far less issues with MS products than other operating systems. Problem is, in the real world there most certainly is not. In fact it's a problem that's become undoubtedly worse with Microsoft adopting the rolling release model of deployment instead of thorough in house testing as the NT kernel just isn't suited to a rolling release model.

Claiming Windows 10 doesn't have issues with less in the way of supporting evidence is more anecdotal as claiming that it does.
 
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So it now devolves into a malware/user issue, and OS stability or hardware. OK. Moving target commencing to move!

Gotta love the buggy windows 10 releases that keep coming out....

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/26/stop_downloading_win10_creators_update/
Don't install our buggy Windows 10 Creators Update, begs Microsoft

https://www.computerworld.com/artic...1709-and-other-patch-tuesday-shenanigans.html

Microsoft forces Win10 1703 customers onto 1709, and other Patch Tuesday shenanigans
 
This is funny as hell, I merely point out that using anecdotal evidence to prove a point is pretty damned silly, the understood corollary being of course win10 has issues. Duh.

By the same token using one's own anecdotal evidence as proof that Mac's just work is also silly. They may work better, but they are not issue free.

The vitriolic reactions are priceless.
 
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